Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead"

by Jerome Armstrong, Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:54:15 AM EST

Listening in on the Clinton conference call. The Clinton's have loaned their campaign another 6 million plus, bringing the total up to about $11.2M that Clinton has loaned her campaign, and they are open to loaning even more if necessary.

In regards to the delegate math, their campaign does not agree with the delegate number of their being a 2025 total with just 48 states, but instead argue that there are 2209 total, including MI and FL.

So, as far as any indication that this might be over, there's no hint of that coming from the Clinton campaign. The FL and MI results will be determined on May 31st, so that battle won't be decided until the end of the month.

The Clinton campaign emphasizes that they believe the FL and MI delegates "should be seated in full representation". If you do add in FL and MI, with both the delegate total and the popular vote, it currently stands at Obama having a lead by 26 delegates, 1916-1890,  with 55 being uncommitted from MI, 32 with Edwards, and 522 remaining delegates to be chosen (217 delegates and 305 superdelegates).

On the allowing for the full seating of MI and FL, if Obama gets to the point where he has enough delegates to win the nomination despite MI & FL being seated, then ultimately, that would be the best route for Obama to go through, even though it seems unlikely.

At this point, I'm personally about as detached from whomever wins as I've ever been. If Obama gets the nod, that's fine with me; but it does look like the Clinton campaign is going to keep on going and making their best argument for getting the nomination.




Tags: 2008 election (all tags)

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Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Oh dear.


by Bobby Obama on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:56:30 AM EST

Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (none / 0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrfJLUsmL fk


by internetstar on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:48:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (none / 0)

this is exactly what we don't need.


by ab03 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:49:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (none / 0)

The NAFTA lady can't even win the nomination.  Put down the pipe.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:46:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (2.00 / 0)

Either of them can beat McCain....

It's weird... I know we are used to underestimating our candidates... especially if they are not our first choice, but geez oh man... Some of you are VASTLY overestimating McCain....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (none / 0)

Everyone thought Kerry could beat Bush in 2004, too.  

Dems have taken for granted the quality of our  national candidates in the last couple of elections.  That's why we've been losing.


by Betsy McCall on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:04:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (2.00 / 1)

We've been losing because we have allowed the Republicans to control the narrative and define our candidates...

Change those two things, change the outcome.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:14:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (none / 0)

Well then thank god we're going to nominate the candidate that won two thirds of the states, locked up the popular vote as early as February, has a HUGE pledged delegate lead, will have the SD lead shortly, expands the map (even to states that don't matter), brings reagan dems back to the party, adds a humongous youth vote, and has the honor to be good for his word after coming to an agreement with all of the other candidates with regard to Florida and Michigan.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:17:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (none / 0)

Sheer spin, no substance.


by doyenne49 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:07:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (none / 0)

He doesn't have those things?  What part was spin?


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (none / 0)

crickets


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:10:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clnton can (none / 0)

Pretty stupid analysis - let';s decide what the battleground states are and decide that clinton can win them and ignore:
the popular vote
the pledged delegates

Clinton is history - that argument just doesn't fly. Clinton has simply had a poorly run campaign that started with every advantage and has managed to lose. Obama has weathered the ridiculous Wright flap and the math doesn't lie - clinton has no chance. In the general election Obama will do better - he doesn't have to defend a vote for the Iraq war (like Kerry), he doesn't have to defend being for Nafta before being against it, he doesn't have to defend a pandering gas tax rebate for the oil companies.

Time to unite around the democratic nominee and go after a vulnerable McCain. His age, his mistatements, his anger problems and his lack of integrity make him very vulnerable. Plus - he will say something stupid to damage his campaign or credibility.


by correctnotright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:38:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama cannot win the GE, Clinton can (none / 0)

Well, to state the obvious, she can't win the GE until she wins the nomination and as of last night Slate is giving her a 4.2 percent chance of doing that.  So you can argue all you want about who would be the better candidate in the general election but if she doesn't get the delegates, she's never going to get there.


by Gene In PA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:44:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The electability argument makes no sense (none / 0)

since she's losing the nomination. If she can't even get the majority of her own party to vote for her (with Limbaugh's help), how in the hell does it follow that she can win nationally.

I agree with an earlier comment; either could beat McCain. But it's the height of silly season to say that her chance is better when she's losing the nomination.


by bookish on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:54:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 3)


by The Animal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 2)

Jerome, I think you're pretty obviously attached. And there's nothing wrong with that - but you're one of the only people around still pretending that Clinton has a shot. McGovern just defected, and apparently Wes Clark realizes that it's over.

Every impartial observer, and a lot of the partial ones on Clinton's side, realizes what has happened here. That you don't is symptomatic of attachment to a candidate.


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:58:49 AM EST

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 1)

Hey, for Jerome, this is a HUGE step! Don't get greedy.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:59:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Wow, you have special powers.

Look, I'm listening to the CC and telling you what they are saying. If you feel that I'm being partial in relaying what they are saying, point it out.


by Jerome Armstrong on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:01:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

In My Opinion (2.00 / 3)

only a partial commenter can report on the Clinton campaign's call to include MI and FL in the delegate and popular-vote totals without pointing out that, back in October, Clinton explained that she was keeping her name on the MI ballot because everyone knew the primary wasn't going to count.


by deminva on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:05:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 1)

It's not clear at all in your post where the conference call stops and your own analysis begins. Specifically,

The Clinton campaign emphasizes that they believe the FL and MI delegates "should be seated in full representation". If you do add in FL and MI, with both the delegate total and the popular vote, it currently stands at Obama having a lead by 26 delegates, 1916-1890,  with 55 being uncommitted from MI, 32 with Edwards, and 522 remaining delegates to be chosen (217 delegates and 305 superdelegates).

On the allowing for the full seating of MI and FL, if Obama gets to the point where he has enough delegates to win the nomination despite MI & FL being seated, then ultimately, that would be the best route for Obama to go through, even though it seems unlikely.

No one believes that FL and MI are going to be seated at full strength with no MI delegates for Obama.


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:08:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Well, if you were on the call, you would have heard, that the Clinton campaign does in fact say that those 55 are uncommitted.


by Jerome Armstrong on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:10:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Yes, but in your post it's not at all clear that these are the Clinton campaign's words, and not yours. Read over it again and I think you'll see what I mean.

The wording, combined with what many (including myself) perceive to be a long-running strong pro-Clinton/anti-Obama personal preference on your part, make it look like you're parroting Clinton talking points.


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:14:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (1.00 / 3)

The Clinton campaign has been in fantasy la la land since February.  I don't see you lending credence to the views of other delusional crazies.  Why do you want to risk your credibility by continuing to cling to the utter crap coming out of the Hilaryous camp?  Why not do your continued credibility as a voice in the effort to get democrats elected a favor and reject this clap trap completely. Just ignore it like you would a toddler throwing a fit after a loss at Chutes and Ladders.  It's not like she's really a democrat or shows any loyalty to the party anymore.  

The sooner we all start to ignore her and let her go about screaming and frothing at the mouth as she heads down the path to irrelevance that begins with betraying one's party, the sooner we can force McSame to start paying for his own opposition research instead of getting a free pass while Hilaryous goes 11 million in debt to do it for him.

The stated goal of your website is to help democrats get elected.  If that's truly what you want, then the most productive thing you can do is to encourage Hilaryous to get the hell out of the way.

At this point if she keeps up with this bullshit about Michigan and Florida even though the average 5 year old knows her argument is disingenuous (the sham contests in Fla and Mi don't count per her own campaign's arrangements), it WILL destroy her career and legacy.  Florida and Michigan will NEVER be seated as is and an arrangement will only be reached after it makes no difference.  

If she keeps this up, I will start a conversation on various blogs about funding a primary challenge for her when she next has to defend her seat in the senate.  I'm always happy to see a DLCer replaced by a democrat anyway.  She can start acting like a democrat or many of us will work to get rid of her.  More and BETTER democrats.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:42:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you, lockewasright, your (1.50 / 2)

trollish post has reminded me of why I will continue to support Hillary until the last delegate, super or otherwise, has cast his or her vote and FL and MI has been resolved. While I admire Obama tremendously and would gladly support him as our nominee, the thought of working with persons such as yourself deeply saddens and troubles me. I have been a passionate supporter of Hillary for quite sometime now, but after last night I was forced to begin coming to terms with the idea of letting go and how it is very much like the grieving process. Your post was like a jolt of caffein to my system, and I realized I am no where near ready to let go. As long as Hillary continues her fight, I will be there with her. I believe she has the best chance to beat McCain and it is on to West Virginia! I do know that the vast majority of Obama supporters are fine, reasonable, spirited individuals. There are some, however, that really don't get what Obama is saying...


I proudly support Hillary Clinton for President of the United States!
by Rumarhazzit on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:48:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you, lockewasright, your (none / 0)

Every candidate is going to have supporters who act like a**holes sometimes. Clinton has them, too. They key is to not let those few awful supporters distract from all the decent folk.

When you're ready to come around, there's plenty of good folk on this side to talk to. Sidestep jerks and you'll find us quick enough.


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you, lockewasright, your (1.50 / 2)

So now I'm a jerk for not forgiving the horrible person that is Hilary Clinton.  I'm sorry.  It's not all ok.  As I said, she can get out of the way and I'll drop it.

I can list the grievances if you want, but the point is this:

I liked Hilary before the primary season started.  I find a whole lot about her behavior in this contest to be offensive and dishonorable.  I am no more of a troll for that than the people who've bought the taylor marsh and alegre and little otter lies (and those people peddle almost exclusively lies) are for their disdain for Obama.

The part that really gets me though is this:

I will NEVER be convinced of anything but that almost all of her supporters know but won't admit that the Florida and Michigan issue is absolutely dishonest bullshit.  HILARY'S campaign took part in crafting the agreement and the agreed to it.  Hilary's failure to take her name off of the Michigan ballot was dishonest.  It was not a mistake for Barack to be good for his word by removing his name from the ballot like just about all of the other candidates did too.  I am partially mad at Hilary for insulting america by pretending like we're all a bunch of 3 year olds who won't get it.  I am even more angry at her supporters for pretending like they ARE 3 years old and don't get it.

I also will never forgive her for functioning as a McCain surrogate.  "The GOP will do it anyway" is no excuse.  We're better than them because we aren't that sort of creep.

Lastly, I am an engineer and an atheist.  I live my entire life based on the idea that making decisions to disregard math and science is a VERY dangerous thing to do and has about a 95% failure rate (as is now evidenced by Hilary's campaign's collapse).  All Hilary's supporters have had for strategy since super tuesday is to look at the math and go "Nuh-uh."  It's really stupid and it's McCain's best chance.

You want trolls, look at the other side of the conversation.

I have a 3 year old son and a 2 year old daughter.  The need for a democratic president that doesn't serve as a veto pen while our congressional majorities that our party enjoys make an effort to restore for my children the civil right that I have enjoyed is far more important than Hilary's stupid fucking ego if it comes at a cost to the actual nominee's chances in November especially if the tactics have to be flagrantly dishonest shit like the Michigan/Florida shit.

The mood in this country is anti- republican more so than anytime in decades.  McSame is an extremely week candidate.  It's a dream for those of us who want a democratic president.  The only thing that can stand in the way is Hilary destroying Barack's chances.  She cannot win the nomination.  The only thing she can do is to cripple Barack not getting the fuck out of the way and SHE'S DOING ALL SHE CAN TO FUCK IT UP!!

She is a horrible human being.  I will never forgive her.  I WILL drop it if she gets out of the way.  If not, I WILL try to find a way for this to cost her.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:40:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you, lockewasright, your (2.00 / 0)

I couldn't agree more with a post than this.  Hillary chose this path and it's become a spiral of death.  Not only for her candidacy but for the Dems chances of winning in November.  Every time I thought she couldn't go any lower, she did.  

I seriously can't tell the difference between most of the "logic" her camp uses these days from the typical Republican crap we've been forced to deal with these last 8 to 10 years.  The biggest pile of dog shit is their Florida and Michigan strategy.  I can't stand people who change the rules after the fact to suite them.  Democrats here ought to be sickened by her efforts, not applaud them.  "Do anything to win" isn't something I've EVER supported and besides that, it's so damn short-sighted.  

The energy of this campaign has been generated by one candidate, Obama.  He's winning by all legitimate measures.  Hell, he's won!  To send those new troops home now by stealing the election will prove, once and for all, that our government is really run by one party.  We're supposed to stand for something better.


by crackerdog on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please don't put words in my mouth. (none / 0)

I never called you a jerk and I certainly know you are entitled to your own opinions. I called your post trollish because it is. It's not necessarily what you say, it's the nasty way you say it:

she is a horrible human being

that gets you a troll rating here everytime.


I proudly support Hillary Clinton for President of the United States!
by Rumarhazzit on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:09:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please don't put words in my mouth. (none / 0)

So, I am entitled to my opinion unless my opinion is that she is a horrible human being?!

Basically I got trolled for my opinion.  That's specifically against the rules for troll rating.  

Besides... she IS a horrible human being.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:16:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please don't put words in my mouth. (none / 0)

Again with you Hilary folks the rules apply to everyone ELSE.  For you though, the rules change according to your convenience.  

Undo your TR or you're as big a hypocrite as your lost cause candidate.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, you did not get TR'd (none / 0)

for your opinion. You got TR'd for:

from the rules

Users who are bashing or attacking any other user on the site, including authors of diaries and frontpage postings, will be banned. Candidates and politicians are fair game (but that doesn't mean you can use inflammatory language against candidates).

Please reread your posts. You will see that your descriptions of Hillary are inflammatory.


I proudly support Hillary Clinton for President of the United States!
by Rumarhazzit on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:47:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, you did not get TR'd (none / 0)

How should I state that Hilary is lacking entirely in any honor and is a basically bad person who has used her station in life to amplify her bad deeds and intents over the course of the nomination race?

It is my opinion that Hilary is a terrible human being.  I didn't start singing "DING DONG" from the Wizard of Oz or drop a C-bomb or anything like that.  

If you can't handle somebody pointing out that your candidate is not honorable and that the party would be better off without someone so disloyal as to place personal ego above the well being of the party then perhaps you should spend your time on something other than politics (like maybe a trip to Woolworth's for some Kleenex) as you haven't a thick enough skin for it (or an aptitude for picking a winner evidently).


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:06:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, you did not get TR'd (none / 0)

crickets


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:27:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you, lockewasright, your (1.33 / 3)

sweet!  Please encourage her to ruin her career.  Not only will my candidate still win, but Hilary will be exposed for the creep that she is too.  Please, encourage and support her.  It's the only way that I can have both of my goals:

An Obama candidacy AND Hilary paying the price for her behavior.

Please continue.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:11:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 0)

"The sooner we all start to ignore her and let her go about screaming and frothing at the mouth as she heads down the path to irrelevance that begins with betraying one's party, the sooner we can force McSame to start paying for his own opposition research instead of getting a free pass while Hilaryous goes 11 million in debt to do it for him. "

Bravo!


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

I think what a lot of people are responding to Jerome is your tendency to report without editorializing the analyses of the Clinton spin machine, while, with Obama's spin you tend to get brutal and sarcastic. Yes in this case you seem to just be telling us what they are saying but its hard to let go of the whole pattern.


by wasder on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

I think what a lot of people are responding to Jerome is your tendency to report without editorializing the analyses of the Clinton spin machine, while, with Obama's spin you tend to get brutal and sarcastic. Yes in this case you seem to just be telling us what they are saying but its hard to let go of the whole pattern.


by wasder on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:02:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 1)

And if the Clinton campaing says that the delegates from Mars are going to be seated - you would dutifully report that. Clinton is finished -no momentum, no money, not enough delegates to catch up and the media are finally realizing it. thye can spin all they want - but it is over. the only question is how graceful the exit will be. Obama can challenge McCain on the unnecessary war in Iraq - and clinton can't. He makes the better candidate - period. the polls will reflect that in the next few weeks and Clinton wil drop out as more people realize the inevitable.


by correctnotright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:46:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Mathematically, she DOES have a chance.  Logically, it probably won't happen.  But just like the baseball team who has to win 10 straight and have their opponent lose 10 straight to make the playoffs... its possible, but not probable.  That is all Jerome is saying.  


"I'm asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington... I'm asking you to believe in yours!" - Sen. Barack Obama
by yitbos96bb on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:01:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 1)

Jerome, does that MI number include NO delegates or votes for Obama?

Can anyone really take a call to seat MI, as is, seriously?


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:58:50 AM EST

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

it could happen now with an understanding that NO Hillary cannot use them in her arguments anymore.

otherwise yes Obama will get the uncommitted and will stay at about 100 delegates ahead.


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:00:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Yes, they say that "Senator Obama made the decision to remove his name from the ballot" and that he campaigned for uncommitted. They also point out that Obama got in the way of having a re-vote.


by Jerome Armstrong on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:02:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Jerome, If they were using this argument against Edwards, who also removed his name from the ballot, would you be buying it?

(Better question: are you buying it?)

Or would you be posting all her quotes to the contrary, in which she too supported not just campaigning, but not being on the ballot. Or her campaign staff, who actually led to MI not being on the ballot. Or her Gov. supporter Granholm, who could have stopped the claimjumping but didn't.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:11:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

There is no truth to that. You need a reality check.


by kitebro on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:31:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 1)

Since you're simply relaying their talking points rather than commenting, don't you think that "contend" is more accurate than "point out".  It seems to me that the latter is implying an obvious truth rather than a debatable issue.


by adconre on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Well we know for a fact Obama will get SOME of those votes.... His people won the Delegate slots in Michigan.  Some are still uncommitted and I'm sure some will go for Hillary.  But at the least, we know it won't be seated with Hillary having a 70 plus delegate lead.


"I'm asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington... I'm asking you to believe in yours!" - Sen. Barack Obama
by yitbos96bb on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

More dirty tricks from Obama --

>>>>Five individuals connected to five different campaigns have confirmed -- but only under condition of anonymity -- that the situation that developed in connection with the Michigan ballot is not at all as it appears on the surface. The campaign for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, arguably fearing a poor showing in Michigan, reached out to the others with a desire of leaving New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton as the only candidate on the ballot. The hope was that such a move would provide one more political obstacle for the Clinton campaign to overcome in Iowa.

http://iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do? diaryId=1264


When was the last time the Washington establishment ran a newbie senator for the purpose of "changing" THEM?
by JoseyJ on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:02:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 1)

October 07, huh. Anonymous sources to a blog, huh.

I'm so sorry this was such a mess, but it's no more Obama's fault than Clinton's fault that FL and MI got messed up. In many ways, it's MORE her fault since HER campaign has so many DNC decision makers on it who MADE this stripping of delegates happen in the first place.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:20:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

NO. The DNC rules were to cut 50% of the delegates for states that violated the Rule - but Brazile, Dean and other Obama supporters promoted changing the Rule to zero delegates.
There's a transcript of the meeting.

When was the last time the Washington establishment ran a newbie senator for the purpose of "changing" THEM?
by JoseyJ on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:48:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Please provide us with a voting list, their votes and links to their publically declared support for a specific candidate.  Because Brazille and Dean haven't publically supported anyone and many feel Brazille is a Clinton supporter.


"I'm asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington... I'm asking you to believe in yours!" - Sen. Barack Obama
by yitbos96bb on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:08:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

More? (none / 0)

I have heard this account many, many times, and it conforms to my sense of what happened.  Nonetheless I have only ever seen this single alternative newspaper article as published confirmation.  The story sounds solid with the five anonymous campaign insiders, that I grant.

Do you or anyone else have a link to a reputable paper corroborating this account?  I have googled for a while and found nothing else with this description of the events, only the reasons provided by the campaigns of the withdrawing candidates, usually citing back to the orginal DFP article.


"We live entangled of webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:22:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More? (2.00 / 1)

Note: Nothing "sounds" solid if it's 5 anonymous anything. Anonymous, plus copious documents proving it (ala Watergate) is one thing. But this is just anonymous confirming anonymous and its lack of other coverage makes it hard to believe a cnospiracy. Impossible, actually. The burden of proof in a conspiracy accusation in on those doing the accusing.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:42:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Snark (none / 0)

That line was snark, poorly delivered.  Anonymous = not solid.


"We live entangled of webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Snark (none / 0)

My apologies!


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:18:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More? (none / 0)

Well, I talked with the officials in Edwards campaign after theirs ended, and that's what they said happened.


by Jerome Armstrong on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who? n/t (none / 0)


by bookish on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:01:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More? (none / 0)

Alright Jerome.  If you're telling the truth, then start to name names, or zip it.  Because this anonymous bullshit doesn't cut it.  


by adconre on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More? (none / 0)

Why don't you figure out who the top 3 persons were on the Edwards team and you'll know.


by Jerome Armstrong on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:19:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More? (none / 0)

How coy.  Color me unimpressed.


by adconre on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 2)

If Clinton keeps going, which she has every right to do, I really hope she runs an issues campaign.


by mefck on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:59:40 AM EST

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

I think a decision to do anything BUT lead an issues campaign for cause a serious run for the doors by the SDs. There's already so much coalescence around Obama, her first attack would push it over the top.

I'd love to see her do an issues campaign, win WV, take KY while Obama has OR and then everyone can exist with dignity. She can end on a winning note, but acknowledge his victory overall. He can end the primary on a win, and still acknowledge her strengths as a campaigner in light of the KY or WV wins, states he'd never take if he personally won the Daytona 500 AND saved an orphanage from a rogue Appalacian Volcano.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:02:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The solution (none / 0)

1. Seat all Michigan and Florida delegates

2. Do not include Michigan or Florida in the first round of voting

3. New Magic Number 2208


Voices in the Wilderness
by Wiseprince on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:00:00 AM EST

Re: The solution (2.00 / 2)

You can't change the "magic" number because you want a new magic number.

The DNC is the arbitor of this. Their number is THE number. You can argue MI and FL need to be seated in someway, but the attempts to "change the number" smack of despiration. But not the good kind.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:04:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The solution (2.00 / 1)

All the same, it's best for Obama if he gets the nomination on first ballot with Fl and MI seated as is.

Being able to win on the worst terms for him wil give him a lot more leeway and is simply the best for legitimacy.


by Ernst on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:38:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The solution (none / 0)

how about this new, new magic number: 1844.5


by grasshopper on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:51:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's what he should offer (none / 0)

then we can settle on 2025. Sound good?


by bookish on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:06:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

perfect! n/c (none / 0)


by grasshopper on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 0)

If Clinton stays in the race I hope she turns her sights on McCain.  That would be good for the party.    If she continues to attack Obama then she is hurting herself even more than she can hurt him.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:00:02 AM EST

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Hillary already turned her sights on McCain - blasting his gas tax suspension that would be paid by the government (taxpayers).

Hillary is very courageous - No presidential candidate has ever taken on the oil companies!
Regardless of the outcome of her bill, if Reid even allows it to the Senate floor, it's a start and she's sending a big message to the oil companies! - that sponsor the corporate media.
So - look for more Hillary bashing in the media.


When was the last time the Washington establishment ran a newbie senator for the purpose of "changing" THEM?
by JoseyJ on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Hillary already turned her sights on McCain - blasting his gas tax suspension that would be paid by the government (taxpayers).

Say what?  She was against it after she was for it, or what?


by David in NY on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:07:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 1)

She's going "full speed ahead" with one intention in mind, fundraising.  She knows she has no shot at the nomination, even with Florida and Michigan seated.  All this is just a show that lets her stay in the race long enough to start getting back that $10 million her campaign owes her.  This economic slowdown is really hitting regular ol' folk like the Clintons pretty hard.  $110 million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:00:14 AM EST

I'll give her campaign some money (none / 0)

If she pivots and helps Obama double-team McCain rather than do his work for him.


by JJE on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:07:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

even if that's the case... (none / 0)

and i had the thought myself, you could never admit it.  you can't raise funds that way this close to a general election, especially after you've already tapped out your big contributors.  she needs the "impulse" contributors, the small contributors, to believe that she has a chance -- if only they'd get behind her.

one last thing: i think it's incredible unrealistic to think that hillary is the only decision-maker here.  bill, possibly even chelsea, will have something to say about what hillary does next.  this is not a family of quitters.  as far as they are concerned, the writing has been on the walls before -- and they still came out on top.  why can't they do it one last time?  i'm sure they are asking themselves that.

that is their right.  the legacy of bill clinton is that he's never understood it was time for him to move off the stage...


"From what I've seen in terms of organization and coordination, the Obama people have run a better campaign," said Larry Ceisler
by bored now on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:13:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No, no, no (none / 0)

You left out the other $24 of Bill's that she didn't report.

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Hillary Clinton excluded nearly $24 million of her husband's earnings from Senate financial statements from 2004 through 2006, capitalizing on rules that permit senators to limit disclosures of some of their spouses' income.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/359 29.html


by bookish on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:09:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 2)

Well so much for the graceful exit theory I'd addressed earlier.  

It must be nice to have extra millions of dollars laying around that you can just throw overboard in the hopes it will make you less likely to sink.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:00:25 AM EST

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

The wealthy support Obama - as well as the Washington establishment he claims he'll "change."
The working class supports Hillary - and has less money than Obama's Billionaire donors.

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-news/19987 79/posts


When was the last time the Washington establishment ran a newbie senator for the purpose of "changing" THEM?
by JoseyJ on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:21:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 2)

Obama's billionaire donors? All 1.5 million of them? The economy must be doing GREAT!

I'd bet there are more 8-figure earners at the Clinton Christmas dinner than there are in all of Obama's donor rolls.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:29:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am currently rolling in hundred dollar bills (none / 0)

of course its monopoly money.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:31:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 2)

Then how do explain the fact that his average donation is lower, and so many of Hillary's donors were already maxed out on the primary so had to donate only for the GE?

Josey you are clearly angry - I get that - but you are clogging up this diary with a heapload of unsubstantiated nonsense.  


by interestedbystander on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:31:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Free Republic links FTW!  Good thing you used the IP address instead so no one could figure that out...


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:58:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Sorry, can you explain what you mean here?  


by David in NY on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fa, fa. (none / 0)

Yes, I rent in the most upscale lower middle class neighborhood in the city and have paid off my ten-year old Civic hatchback. When I travel, I stay in the finest hostels and eat at the most critically-acclaimed food carts.

We're all very elite and effete, we supporters of Obama.


by bookish on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:14:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice Free Republic link (none / 0)

Is this what you're now left with?  The dregs of political discourse?


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 1)

Pretty detached myself... I want this to be done and or the blogs to be full of diaries on just how much McCain really does suck...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:01:36 AM EST

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Amen!  It is time to focus on McSame being senile, mean, a flip-flopper, and just plain WRONG on many issues.  

I hope that everyone will now pull together and stop the bad-mouthing of our front runner.  Whether Obama was your personal choice or not, he is destined to be the nominee (and OUR PRESIDENT!)  So, get over yourselves, and start helping our cause to put a DEM in the W.H.


by citizensane on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Two Break (2.00 / 2)

Official - MSNBC: Former Sen. George McGovern, a Clinton supporter, is urging her to quit the race.

Reported - Wes Clark is calling on Clinton to leave the race


Donate to Bob Barr for Obama- http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:01:58 AM EST

Re: Two Break (2.00 / 1)

Further McGovern is calling Bill Clinton to inform him he is endorsing Obama.


Donate to Bob Barr for Obama- http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:07:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope this is not gonna get embarrassing (2.00 / 2)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:10:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope this is not gonna get embarrassing (2.00 / 1)

I think it may be apparent by the weekend that several of her backer has turned.  It won't be too hard...her and Bill just need to keep cool in public.


Donate to Bob Barr for Obama- http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:11:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

the McGovern switch will probably do it. (none / 0)

it just has not settled yet


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:19:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the McGovern switch will probably do it. (none / 0)

She is campaigning in South Dakota later this week...McGovern's home state


Donate to Bob Barr for Obama- http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:20:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope this is not gonna get embarrassing (2.00 / 1)

why not?  Clinton deserves it.  She dug her grave.  Roll in it baby

http://hillaryis404.org/


SquareState.net - Colorado Politics
by pacified on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:58:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Brilliant! (none / 0)

Great work, fellow nerd political junkies!


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:59:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

Probably not what Obama needs in the headlines.


by Jerome Armstrong on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:11:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

That is true - I get the feeling he may be the first of several though.

I was always a little shocked McGovern was backing Hillary anyway.


Donate to Bob Barr for Obama- http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:12:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

Have you heard any elected Clinton spokespeople on any network?  I'm just wondering where Bayh, Randell, Corzine, Jackson-Lee and the bunch are.


Donate to Bob Barr for Obama- http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:17:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

I wouldn't expect a peep out of Bayh until HRC formally concedes.  He's in WAY to deep.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

Why not? It's not like it's Eagleton endorsing Obama, who was the party hack who brought McGovern down in '72.

Oh yeah, Americans can remember last week much less 35 years ago.


"I hope the two wings of the Democratic Party may flap together." - William Jennings Bryan
by pinche tejano on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:18:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, and George McGovern three aspirants to the White house that ran really stellar campaigns backing Obama.


by usedmeat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:52:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

And all three are failed Dem presidential candidates.  Just sayin'.


by Betsy McCall on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (2.00 / 1)

Hell, Hilary's a failed nomination candidate.  Also, just sayin'.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

Good for McGovern.

I hope this doesn't start a new round of trashing McGovern. He's a legitimate war hero and the last thing from a Judas.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:27:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

In other (turncoat) News Joe Andrew is on MSNBC and has not changed clothes since last night when he was on CNN - think it was a late night for the campaigns?


Donate to Bob Barr for Obama- http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:14:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

I think this also increases the chances Clark is now in the top 5 VP candidates?

I would certainly go for that pick, though I prefer Seibilus or Richardson, for the demographic reach they bring.

Clark brings the Military background, but Obama needs to reach the rural crowd, and the Latino voters as well...


"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke, "There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke....
by WashStateBlue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:19:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (none / 0)

He is quickly becoming my choice.  We'll have to see how he reacts in the coming days to get a clue of where he is...but he undercuts the whole McCain claim.


Donate to Bob Barr for Obama- http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:21:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Break (2.00 / 1)

And can you imagine the number of "Obama/Clark Girl" videos? They make a pretty poster those two.

Clark's blinking rate continues to impress me. The guy is the Siddhartha of the blinking metric.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:31:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 0)

"but it does look like the Clinton campaign is going to keep on going and making their best argument for getting the nomination."

Which is what? McGovern is calling for her to get out. More on their way. She is every bit the great politician that her husband was, and a more capable and intelligent person. She knows what's happening and it's only a matter of time now. A victory in WV and a split with Oregon and KY will be enough to let go.


by mikeplugh on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:01:58 AM EST

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 2)

Why the long face, Jerome?  Your candidate lost, but we have a candidate who can win the White House and end 8 years of incredibly destructive Republican rule.  There is cause to celebrate.


by rayspace on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:01:59 AM EST

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (none / 0)

Hlilary supporters would be celebrating if we thought Obama could beat McCain.
He can't.
Plus Obama's hatemongering toward the Clintons doesn't inspire her supporters to join a candidate propped up by the Washington establishment and media.
We went down that road in 2000.

Enjoy your beer with Obama.
Mission Accomplished!


When was the last time the Washington establishment ran a newbie senator for the purpose of "changing" THEM?
by JoseyJ on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:27:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's CC: "full speed ahead" (2.00 / 1)

Bill Clinton was the US President for 8 years.

How can anyone be more Washington Establishment than that? Eight years of staffers and aides who now run the party? Come on. At least focus your bitter on something real. Like those pesky kids and their "changespeak."


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:33:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He was never Washington Establishment (2.00 / 1)

He was the best advocate for the middle class since Roosevelt.


by internetstar on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:50:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He was never Washington Establishment (none / 0)

Really? Nafta? Welfare "Reform?" Don't Ask Don't Tell? But middle-class savior doesn't mean "not establishment."

Trust me, I love Bill as much as any straight male, but as much as the snooty and meaningless punditocracy may sniff at Clinton over the years, his people are the Democratic Washington Establishment. Keerist, McAuliff and Rendell were the party chairs prior to Dean -- Andrew too. They were all in the tank for Hillary.

She had the establishment. The wind changed. The establishment moved on. But don't pretend there's a conspiracy unless it makes you feel better. But even then, don't pretend its real.


We have a stake in one another ... what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart.... -- BARACK OBAMA
by Lettuce on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:02:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are either too rich to understand (none / 0)

what Clinton did for the middle class, or you were too young to know what was coming off.
Our standard of living was unprecedented.  He balanced the budget, kept us out of war, and made the middle class wealthy.

Clinton was a once in a lifetime lucky break.

Jimmy Carters, Barack Obamas are a dime a dozen.

This is the last chance in my lifetme to get a good, effective president who will make this America again.


by internetstar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:50:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He was never Washington Establishment (2.00 / 1)

One of the most harmful tactics of Obama's campaign is his exploitation of GOP talking points to negate the successes of Clinton and other Dem preside