Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread

Consider this a thread on Hillary Clinton's speech from Indianapolis following the Indiana primary.

Update [2008-5-6 22:58:31 by Todd Beeton]:Unity ticket alert. Note her use of the pronoun "we."

And I think standing up for working people is about the American dream and the Democratic Party. And I think standing up for the middle class is about who we are and who we can be if we stick together. So it is important that as we go forward in this campaign that we recognize that we are all on the same team. We're going to be standing up for you. We're going to be looking for a way to turn this country around and bring it back to what it should stand for and be all about. Better futures for you and your children, solving the problems that affect us here in America. I know that people are watching this race and their wondering, I win, he wins, I win, he wins. It's so close and I think that says a lot about how excited and passionate our supporters are and how intent so many Americans are to taking their country back. But I can assure you that no matter what happens, I will work for the nominee of the Democratic Party because we must win in November. And I know that Senator Obama feels the same way.

I have to say, I don't think this leaves any doubt that if Obama does win this nomination, that Hillary Clinton would accept the VP slot. Am I reading too much into this?



Display:


Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Awkward - she has to speak, but without being sure of the win.


by Falsehood on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:39:48 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

god, what an awful way to start the speech. Doesn't even congratulate him on north carolina.


by mecarr on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:39:50 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Typical...


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:40:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Or thank anyone.  


Saxby Chambliss
by bosdcla14 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

She did ultimately congratulate him, though.


by sricki on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:49:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that "full speed onto the white house" (2.00 / 1)

line really range hollow. she's hurtin.


by Mojo Risen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:39:51 PM EST

First comment is a shot at Obama. (none / 0)

A less classy speech than Obama's from the get-go.


John McCain: He flunked ECON 101.
by Shem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:39:52 PM EST

Re: First comment is a shot at Obama. (1.50 / 4)

It's all about her, remember?


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:43:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Followed it up with the McCain gas tax sham. (none / 0)

This is the centerpiece of her campaign now?


John McCain: He flunked ECON 101.
by Shem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

What a classy start! And by classy, I mean really petty.

Spinning a victory speech never sounds good.

Although, finally something gracious.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:40:31 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

I'm not one of the haters--I prefer Obama, but I would vote for hrc in the general--but, "Full speed ahead to the white house?"

???


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:40:56 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

the "full steam ahead to the whitehouse" line probably made some super delegate's eyes roll


by mecarr on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:40:59 PM EST

yeah, mine too. eom (2.00 / 1)


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Oh, she's about to ask for money!!!


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:41:01 PM EST

She just did. (2.00 / 1)


by xeju on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

No one knows yet, notice how careful she was not to claim a win. She just claimed the tie-breaker - that's not a clear quote in case it doesn't happen, it won't hurt that much.


by Falsehood on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:41:04 PM EST

It sure sounds like a victory speech, (none / 0)

It isn't like the embarassment will matter though, if Obama pulls out Indiana.


by DSloth on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:48:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama congratulates Clinton (2.00 / 4)

his supporters Boo.

Clinton congratulates Obama, and her supporters clap.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:41:05 PM EST

Re: Obama congratulates Clinton (none / 0)

I noticed that as well.


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:46:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Hmm, she didn't actually claim victory.

Her first words were very carefully chosen...

Her congratulating him on a win in NC is, I must say, pretty rare for her.


by Lawyerish on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:41:15 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

well, she used the word "commend", not as nice as the word "congratulate", but whatever. bad night for her.


by mecarr on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Full speed ahead to the White House!! (none / 0)

For, you know, somebody. Not necessarily me. But MAYBE, if you send enough $$$...


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:44:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She has been warned by the (none / 0)

party elders about castrating the potential nominee.

Also she has her future reputation in the democratic party to think of, because I don't see a path for her to win.

I liked the first part of her speech. It almost sounded concilliatory.

The second part was about moving on to the next primary.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:04:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Do you think she has an inside line on where the counting is at?  That's what I figured when I heard her opening line.


by xeju on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:41:19 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Seems like about 220K votes outstanding, most in "Obama strongholds" (per Russert).  Obama camp insider reporting says that they will fall about 10-15K short of overtaking (per Chuck Todd).  So I don't know.


by RenaRF on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Wow clearly a concession speech even if she claims a victory.  Her tone alone shouts it.  The crowd is trying but she doesn't have it (although I don't like the derivative chant).


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:41:22 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (1.66 / 3)

where did all of the momentum from PA go to ?


by soros on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:41:31 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

This has been a very, very long campaign.  By this time there isn't much momentum left, just changing demographics from state to state.

I think Clinton was hurt a little bit at the end, largely because she picked up the gas tax issue.  That gave Obama a chance to change the subject away from Wright to and remind people of what they liked about him.  Every campaign makes mistakes, and this one was Clinton's.

But that said, it hurt her at the margin only.  The fundamentals made it extremely hard to get a result much different than we saw.

Which is why folks are pretty confident in predicting how the rest of the contests are going to go.  Very big HRC wins in WV and KY, substantial Obama wins in OR, SD, MT, and a substantial Clinton win in PR.


by TL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Get your credit cards out


by HL Mungo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:41:47 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

and go to www.barackobama.com

Support your nominee.


by broncoelway on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (1.50 / 4)

Is she begging for money again?

Creepy.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:41:54 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

She's got LOTS of bills to pay.  Was MC Hammer her finance chair?


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:46:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

"Was MC Hammer her finance chair?"

Best line of the night.


by yedi on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

See above.  The Tyson retort was pretty good too.  :)


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Incorrect.  Tyson was co-chair (until he was fired for biting off Mark Penn's ear).


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

I can tell she is disappointed. :(


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:42:21 PM EST

She's broke.... (none / 0)

Go to Hillary dot com, cause I'm broke! Well, we've got 100 mill, but the campaign's broke.


by IowaMike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:42:32 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

I've never seen her this dispirited... I think she knows it's over...  she just wants more money to pay her debts...


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:44:13 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

On the nose.  She'll stay on through the cheap market of WV in a week and pay herself back as much as she can.


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:47:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow (none / 0)

she can self-fund her campaign from this point forward... to prove that she really believes her campaign can still win it.


by soros on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:44:42 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Her rhetoric is soaring as usual.


by HL Mungo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:44:44 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (1.50 / 4)

I've never been so inspired when being told to donate money to a multi-millionaire.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

For her sake, I hope she really does win Indiana.

Because these statements are going to sound really bad if Lake County comes in big for Obama.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:44:48 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

One of the the things we always noticed between the two camps:

Obama always mentioned HRC, she does not mention or congratulation Obama in primary speeches.This is the first time that HRC has congratulated Obama in a primary speech.  Perhaps she feels the end for her.

Going out classy this time it seems...doh! she just mentioned that damn gas tax...


summer is for swimming
by susu1969 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:45:35 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Actually, she did say something, but it went by very quickly.  She didn't say she "congratulated" him, but she "commended" him and his supporters.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:48:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

She is pushing the dumb gas tax again.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:45:41 PM EST

Gas Tax? (2.00 / 2)

She's sticking with the Gas Tax? Hill it's a bad ploy, and people aren't buying it.


by Tatan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:46:02 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

You know, if she wins IN by only a few points, it's quite possible that Operation Chaos did it.  

BTW, Obama is holding at +14 in NC with 86% reporting.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:46:54 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

If she does pull it out I think it is all but certain that Operation Chaos got her the win.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:48:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

I love you folks -

Republican vote for Obama = sign of bipartisan appeal

Republican vote for Clinton = EVIL CONSPIRACY

It's so rational and doesn't seem self-serving at all.  Really.


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:50:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

Please.

There was no organized effort by Republicans to vote for Obama so that it would undermine the Democratic party.

Rush has made it very clear that it was his intent to get his listeners to vote for Clinton to hurt the party.  

I bet tomorrow Rush will claim the IN win as a result of his efforts -- and folks will be looking at the exit poll data to try to figure it out.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There's a difference, and you know this. (none / 0)

Obama Republicans are crossing over of their own cognizance, and intend to support him in November.  Hillary Republicans are there at Rush Limbaugh's behest, and plan on voting for John McCain in November no matter who wins.


John McCain: He flunked ECON 101.
by Shem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:53:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

That's because Rush Limbaugh wasn't telling his supporters to vote for Obama.


by broncoelway on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

See the CNN exit polls. If you crunch the numbers you'll see that 7% of the votes were for Clinton, but from people who would vote McCain over her in the general -- the equivalent percentage for Obama is only 2%.

Obama would have thus won Indiana if only people actually intending to vote the Democrat ticket in the general had given their vote.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:04:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

maybe, but (none / 0)

somebody on MSNBC earlier said that exit polling was showing that the crossover vote was mirroring the overall pretty closely, something like 52%-48%. Lots of republican crossover for both, in other words. Possibly enough more for her to make the difference if it's RAZOR thin in the end, but I doubt operation chaos will be the big story here.


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

since this speech started (2.00 / 1)

her futures contracts have crashed at intrade


by Mojo Risen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:47:35 PM EST

Re: since this speech started (none / 0)

Yow. I just checked, after seeing this. She's dropped about about 20% to 10% in under 5 hours.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

I like Hillary a great deal.  She is an excellent politician and I respect her and Bill Clinton tremendously.  However, I like Obama and what he represents even more.  Thats why I voted for him.

The thought of Bush I, Clinton I, Bush II, Clinton II makes me uncomfortable.  If Obama turns out to be a bust, so be it.  At the very least, he does represent change, which is something this country needs more than ever.  I know Clinton supporters are emotionally vested in her campaign, and it will be disappointing if she loses.  However, even the most ardent Hillary supporters have to acknowledge that Obama will be better for our country than McCain.


by agpc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:48:02 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (1.00 / 2)

P-L-E-E-E-E-Z!
What has Obama ever changed - other than campaign tactics?
Seriously - Obama reminds me no one more that George Bush in the sense that he seems to believe that saying it makes it so. Like "mission accomplished."
What, for crying out loud, does "change you can believe in" MEAN?
And what the hell does "We are the people we have been waiting for" mean. Sounds like bad '60s folk-rock lyrics.  Solipsistic, self-centered, self-indulgent
by M1513 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

I understand you are upset that your candidate appears to be on the brink of losing the nomination.   But, Obama absolutely represents change.  The free world is this close to having its leader be an African American.  Less than 45 years after civil rights and within 150 years after the permanent abolition of slavery.  

If that doesn't represent change, I have no idea what would.


by agpc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:08:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

why should race determine the nominee? Why would it make a difference to the world? If he's another Jimmy Carter, we won't be looked upon too positively.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:26:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Actually, considering his short time in the Senate, he has some impressive legislation under his belt.  I am particularly impressed with his successes in the area of government accountability and transparency.  He also has some solid accomplishments with campaign finance reform, which will be helpful in deflating McCain's claims to that territory.  

And really, if you look at the histories of both Obama and Bush, I don't know how you can draw any kind of parallel.


by protothad on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unity (2.00 / 1)

Hillary again makes it clear that the party will unify.


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:48:18 PM EST

Re: Unity (none / 0)

Thank you Hillary.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:50:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Uh... sounds like she's making sure she's gonna have cash coming in for Wv and Ky.

She's barely raising her voice, there's no pop, the fire is not blazing

I think she sees the end but needs to get through the next two weeks to close up some debt


by kmwray on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:48:39 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

I thought the same thing after Wisconsin. Don't get your hopes up.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um (2.00 / 1)

Towards the beginning, she said:

We've come from behind

Huh?

There was that one poll in February that showed an enormous Obama lead, but I don't recognize the pollster and it didn't match anyone else. Since then, Clinton has lead in every polling average.

How did she "come from behind" to win Indiana?

It just doesn't fit the data.


Walberg Watch - Following Radical Conservative Rep. Tim Walberg in MI-07
by Fitzy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:49:25 PM EST

Re: Um (none / 0)

that one poll months ago, 40% obama 25% clinton...  

not sure if the other 35% were undecided or what...


by soros on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's adopting the change message (none / 0)

She looked so pained when she said 'on to the Whitehouse'. This speech was a realization that she will not be the nominee this cycle.


by Tatan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:50:06 PM EST

this speech has a concession tone to it (none / 0)


by Mojo Risen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:50:35 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 3)

I just picked up where she's talking how we need to get a Dem in the White House.  She says she'll support whoever wins the nomination.  Very classy.

I know this has been a rough one.  Both sides probably did some things they shouldn't have, but we all need to come together and make sure we have a Dem in the White House.


by chewie5656 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:51:02 PM EST

We've had some practice now... (none / 0)

Time to use the knives we've been sharpening on each other against McCain!!!


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:53:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice Burma mention (none / 0)

Classy.


by Tatan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:51:48 PM EST

Re: Nice Burma mention (none / 0)

Sixteen diaries tomorrow like this:

"Obama Hates Burma"


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:06:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice Burma mention (none / 0)

It's all because he's a secret muslim.


by Tatan on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:29:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Global leadership (2.00 / 1)

Speaking to the junta and imploring them to please let the world help the people of Burma.


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:52:25 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

It does; it is a sad, decent speech, and it does sound like at least the beginning of a concession.


by mady on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:52:25 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

does this sound like a conciliatory speech?  OMG!  

tipsy on HOPE....and Barcardi


summer is for swimming
by susu1969 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:52:45 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (1.00 / 1)

I honestly think Bill may be having a heart attack. I can't imagine why his face should be that red.


by KyleJRM on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:53:28 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Bill has looked really depressed throughout the entire speech. Awful night.


by sricki on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:01 PM EST

will she mention FL and MI? (none / 0)


by Mojo Risen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:06 PM EST

Re: will she mention FL and MI? (none / 0)

I called 10 sec before she did it


by Mojo Risen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: will she mention FL and MI? (none / 0)

She's so predictable when it comes to supporting democracy - doesn't just sicken you?


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: will she mention FL and MI? (2.00 / 2)

It does.  It is bald faced pandering.  She didn't give two shits about this until she needed the votes from MI & FL.  It is pretty disgusting actually.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: will she mention FL and MI? (none / 0)

Blue - do you ever have your facts straight?  She spoke out about the need to count these votes back in October (11th) 2007, and has done so consistently ever since.

What is it with you and dishonesty?


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: will she mention FL and MI? (none / 0)

Is anyone who disagrees with you honest?  It doesn't seem like you think so.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:03:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: will she mention FL and MI? (none / 0)

No, she spoke out about the need to count the votes of those states in October 2007. About the specific illegitimate primaries, she said that "it's clear those votes are not going to count".

Yes, I know there's context to it, but the fact is, her October 2007 comments were about the need to come up with a fair way to allow voters in Florida and Michigan to count. The elections that both had were not fair nor legitimate. She knows that; so does virtually everyone else.

The truly dishonest position here is that which attempts to claim that the elections in dispute constitute "the will of the people" in either state.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:14:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: will she mention FL and MI? (2.00 / 1)

If she supported democracy she wouldn't be trying to win by referencing primaries which were in no way little-d democratic.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: will she mention FL and MI? (none / 0)

Just did!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: will she mention FL and MI? (none / 0)

I liked the speech up to that point, but I guess she could not help herself.  Tonight has to be pretty traumatic.


by mady on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:00:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Count Florida & Michigan (none / 0)

Yes we will.


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:47 PM EST

Re: Count Florida & Michigan (none / 0)

Absolutely - There will be a deal to include them. Howard Fineman reported that tonight.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Count Florida & Michigan (2.00 / 2)

i've still got my signs from 2000, back when it was the republicans doing this to us. now it's democrats. so much for uniting the party.


by campskunk on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Count Florida & Michigan (2.00 / 1)

You are thinking of the old Democratic party.

This is the New Left party.  We don't votes anymore.


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Count Florida & Michigan (2.00 / 1)

don't count votes, that is  (we still vote, hoping they will be counted)


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Count Florida & Michigan (none / 0)

Extremely overheated.

Back when she wanted support from the voters of Iowa and New Hampshire, she told them she supported the DNC position - of course IA and NH had a special role in the primary process.  They had to go first.  Of course MI and FL won't count.

Now, of course, it's no longer in her self-interest and the story has changed.  

Most of us remember this clearly.  If she wanted to take a principled stand, the time to do it was before Iowa and New Hampshire.


by TL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Count Florida Michigan (none / 0)

That is not what she said.  I have copied and pasted the real quote so many times now that I am tired of it.  Washington Post, Oct 11, 2007, if you have any interest in knowing the truth (which I doubt).

She took a political hit in Iowa because, unlike her pandering opponents, she would not take her name off the MI ballot.  Even Chris Dodd, Obama surrogate, admitted that it took real political courage for her to do that, and not cave into the demands of Iowa machine pols.

Again, if you have any interest in knowing the truth, which I doubt, all of these facts are readily confirmed by the tiniest ounce of effort and desire to learn.


by bobbank on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:22:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Count Florida Michigan (none / 0)

Oy.  Bob.  You think she spoke once, on October 17, and then never spoke again?  I have watched video of her making exactly that comment - about the special role of Iowa and NH.


by TL on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:29:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

She got all concillatory, then BANG!  Florida mand Michigan.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:11 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Hadn't you heard?  Its her "nuclear option".

/eyeroll


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Chelsea looks really good tonight.


by soros on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:55:37 PM EST

Oh you dog. (none / 0)


by grass on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh you dog. (none / 0)

Well she is a total hottie so it's hard not to notice.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Also, please notice (2.00 / 1)

her promise that she'll do everything she can for the nominee. No matter what her detractors say, she'll do everything in her power to assure a Democratic victory in the fall -- even if it's Obama's.


by sricki on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:30 PM EST

Let's all get on that boat. eom (none / 0)


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

closing strong.

very presidential.


by devoted1 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:41 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Tweety thought there were no shots against Obama in there. I thought I heard a couple, but fewer than normal on the whole.


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:07 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

"Full speed to the white house" = concession?

Denial continues!


by realcountrymusic on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:25 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (1.00 / 1)

This is a schizophrenic speech.  She is saying she is going on, but part of it sounded like a concession -- I say no concession here tonight.

Barack won unambiguously.  He was gracious, she was not.

He has an end game by May 20, she does not.  She needs to get out.  Sooner, rather than later.


by wintermute1 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:55 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

No decisive reason for her to concede yet. Maybe within the next few days, depending on superdelegate action.


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

Pretty insensitive description there. But by all means, keep on using a serious mental illness to make your rude point. Everyone just loves that sort of crap.


by sricki on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

The comment was clearly referring to the speech, not the speaker. It wasn't an insinuation of mental illness. The term is often used to describe things which are "all over the map" (to use another cliche), try to have things both ways, can't decide on a central theme, etc.

It may be right, it may be wrong, but it's not insensitive, it's just common usage of a word that, like many in English, has a whole lot of common usages.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Yes, I know s/he was talking about the speech, but that doesn't make it any better. It is insensitive. Using it in that manner trivializes a severe mental illness, and the fact that a lot of people do it doesn't make it any more acceptable.


by sricki on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:18:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

They said she was giving concession speeches two months ago.  ~yawn~  Damn, you Obama followers are getting boring to me.


by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Clinton's margin in Pennsylvania: 214,224 votes. Obama's margin in North Carolina with 13 percent of the vote yet to be counted: 204,419 votes. The remaining vote in North Carolina looks to me to be pretty representative of the state as a whole, so he will likely finish with a win in the 230,000 vote range.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/e lection-night-thread.html
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:59:47 PM EST

yeah, and (none / 0)

 there aren't many votes left. Still, I think she won't officially concede until it's mathematically impossible (rather than extremely unlikely) for her to get the nomination. This means, no concession until/unless lots of supers declare for Obama. I wonder if they'll now be motivated to do so. I hope so, 'cause we can then all tear into McCain.


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:03:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

From Drudge:
Hillary plans to huddle with undecided super delegates tomorrow; gauging if she can go on... Developing...
by mecarr on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:00:25 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

We're listening to Drudge now?


by sricki on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not (none / 0)

I'll believe it when I see it.


by kydoc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

whisper in the trees (none / 0)

Evan Bayh
Ted Strickland on VP short list.  Sorry, it doesn't look like a dream ticket scenario.  To cross bridges, the two from IN and OH makes sense
summer is for swimming
by susu1969 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:00:30 PM EST

Re: whisper in the trees (none / 0)

I think Bayh would be great as Veep (or President, for that matter), but I would strongly advise either Clinton or Obama against picking a Senator as a running mate. The GOP is still going to make sure it takes 60 votes to get anything done so we need every Dem vote in the Senate.


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: whisper in the trees (none / 0)

you are right about senator VP's  I always had my heart on Warner, but now he is running or Senate, he is out so Strickland is a strong candidate in a purple state turning blue.


summer is for swimming
by susu1969 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:19:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As an Obama supporter (2.00 / 1)

This is the Hillary I could be proud to vote for.  

Gracious for the most part, party unity, nice.


by Renie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:28 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Jerome is going to make an unhappy post.


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:04:27 PM EST

I thought it was a fine speech (none / 0)

for the most part.  Didn't like the part about Florida and Michigan -- if that's how she intends to win.  

I don't think she'd take the VP slot if asked.  Why would she, when she can remain one of the most powerful people in the Senate?  Powerful and visible Vice Presidents are a historical anomaly.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:07:11 PM EST

Re: I thought it was a fine speech (none / 0)

Because it guarentees her the Nom in 8 years.


by yitbos96bb on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

As to whether or not she would make a good Veep for Obama...  I'm not so sure.  It has nothing, for me, to do with the race to this point (though I have had my problems with her) but rather to do with demographics.  I really would rather see a southern or mid-western type with some National Security and military credentials on the ticket.

But we'll see how it plays out.


by RenaRF on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:07:55 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Lanny Davis is claiming that the Clinton campaign is going to raise lots of money from supporters on-line tonight, like post-PA.  What do you folks think?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:09:22 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Well, at least she had a gas relief plan, Obama has nothing.
And yet no one points that out.

Let's see how much they love SlickBarry when the Maverick McCain rolls into town.


by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Olby: Hello, guest appearing only to agree with my leading questions, how many ways can we think of to push the Hildebeast out of the race?

Matthews: The race in Indiana is still up in the air? OMG I have such a chubby in my pants!


by BlueDoggyDogg on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:19 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (1.50 / 2)

Unity with Clinton at the bottom? I would definetely not vote for Obama in that case either. That would be the biggest demotion for Clinton.


by bsavage on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:10:37 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Glad to see your a true Democrat and not just some hanger on... oh wait.


by yitbos96bb on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:13:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Second place is usually given to the people that come in second. I'm sorry if this logic escapes you.

And I'm sorry if you're willing to vote for the destruction of your country, based on your view of whether the alternative would be good or bad for Clinton's career (aka promotion or demotion)

"Remember kids -- only vote for the Democratic ticket when it's GOOD for Clinton's career that you do so."


by Aris Katsaris on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Bsavage says:

Unity with Clinton at the bottom? I would definetely not vote for Obama in that case either. That would be the biggest demotion for Clinton.

If you won't vote for Obama in the GE, or Hillary as VP on Obama's ticket, you must be a republican troll.


summer is for swimming
by susu1969 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Not only would Hillary NOT take the VP position, but either would Edwards from Obama.

It would be beneath both of them because they are better candidates than Barack Obama.

When this primary is over, I'm leaving the Democratic Party forever.  I've had enough.


by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:21:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

"It would be beneath both of them "

And yet again kids, remember -- this is about Hillary's personal ambition, what is "beneath her" and what is not, what is good for her career and what is not.

It's never about the good of the country, it's just about Hillary, Hillary, Hillary.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Wow you have some nerve calling me a troll just because I wont vote for Obama. Ive been a user here for well over 2 years, and I only hate Obama not real Democrats. There is a HUGE difference.


by bsavage on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:23:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

You explained your refusal to vote for the Democratic ticket, even one with Clinton on its VP spot, by the reasoning of it being a "demotion" for Clinton.

So basically your concern about Clinton's career trumps what's good for the nation or not.

Otherwise the demotion comment was just a non-sequitur bit of garbage, and you'd have just said you'd never vote for Obama as president. The "demotion" bit however really puts the focus on where your real concern lies.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

I am calling you re republican troll because you wouldn't vote for Hillary even as VP. So who would you vote for in the GE?  McCain? Or do one of those I won't vote for a republican, but I won't vote for Obama either....arrgggggh

I always said, I will vote for the democrat nominee in November, who will you vote for?


summer is for swimming
by susu1969 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:31:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Cynthia Mckinney! Voting Green is a tradition among disenfranchised Democrats.


by bsavage on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:44:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Your 100% right Todd.  When he wins, she will accept the VP nod if he offers it.  The question becomes will he ask her.

For the record, my guess is that the SDs come to him, tell him they will come out for him but he has to take her in the VP slot.  My guess is he says yes.  

So yeah, I think its gonna be an Obama/Clinton ticket.  Its a strong one for November.


by yitbos96bb on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:12:27 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

And how accurate have your guesses been so far?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

There is no question that should he be the nominee, he must offer her the VP position in an effort to keep the party unified.

She would have had to do the same if the situation were reversed.


by nikkid on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:02 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

I'm hoping he just takes some Hillary supporter like Wes Clarke.

Perhaps he can make a Hillary VP work. But the Clintons are primadonnas, they make everything be about them, them, them.

And that's just obscene, and it will drag every single negative Hillary has to Barack's team. Perhaps he can make it work. But I doubt it.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:21:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's against everything he stands for (none / 0)

in reality.  Though what she says is not so different from him, she's just saying what she thinks people want to hear.  Obama means business, I think, and that would leave her out.


by Garret on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

It's the job of a vice president to subordinate him or herself to the agenda of the president.  It needs to be clear to everyone in the government who's calling the shots, and you especially don't want a veep who has a very large and entrenched political machine in Washington - one that's been building for 16 years, that she has built herself, and that may see her as the next presidential candidate in waiting.

This has nothing to do with Hillary per se.  Any president who would take on a veep with that profile is asking for serious, serious trouble.


by TL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:27:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Look at W and Cheney! (none / 0)

we know who wears the pants in that marriage.  eeeww....


To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." - Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:03:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

Bsvage,

Could you elaborate on the Cynthia Mckinney comment and voting green?


summer is for swimming
by susu1969 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:53:54 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Indiana Speech Thread (none / 0)

even if Hillary loses, I hope Barack Obama realize who still runs shit. Who runs the machine, knows its members, and will still have popularity and thus fundraising pull? To think the Clintons are just gonna "disappear" would be self-dilusion, and Bill Clinton will still be a class act, so I don't doubt for a second that he won't be asking Bill and Hill to raise money for him. They will gladly do it to gain pull with him and maintain power, as the donors will still want the Democrats to win, and the Clintons will still be popular with them. Obama will ask Bill to campaign for him, and they'll do it gladly for the same reason. Don't forget, the Clintons still hold the governorship of Ohio, in the form of Governor Strickland, and with Pennsylvania, Ed Rendall. Obama is gonna have trouble in those states, being how yes these states may have issues with his comments and his race, but the Dem candidate still has an edge. mcCain will also run a hard race. This election is gonna be Nixon vs. Kennedy all over again. it could be 49-49 as it was that year in the final popular tally. he is not gonna expand the map, its gonna be 2000, he is not picking VA up, being that it was the only southern state to not vote for Jimmy Carter in 1976, meaning it hasn't gone Dem since 1964. He is not getting Colorado, lets be real being McCain's proximity, and New Mexico will be tough because hispanics don't like him. The clintons have pull with these people. He will need them to do the work. Obama ran a new kind of campaign, the Howard Dean kind, except he perfected it, and it worked, and I'll congratulate him for that.

Remember, when Ford lost to Carter in '76 by 12000 votes in Ohio and Oregon and a mere 2 percent in the national pop. vote, he blamed Reagan, who was popular with the conservatives Ford struggled for, for not campaigning for him.

Even if Obama wins, Hillary probably beleives that challenging him in 2012 would be easier than a crowded field that year if McCain wins the WH


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:54:42 PM EST


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