Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread

Indiana, 12 percent reporting and Clinton leads by 58-42, 16 percent. The CBS exit poll would seem to indicate a bit closer of a race, and Clinton leading among white Democrats by a 65-35 margin.

Update [2008-5-6 19:45:38 by Jerome Armstrong]: All the networks call NC before a vote is even released. The early voting must have sealed it for Obama, plus the African American vote. His numbers among blacks voters has increased to a remarkable 92-8 margin in IN, and a 91-6 margin in NC. So the early call is a split. Look for whomever wins by the largest margin in either state to have the edge with the spin.

Update [2008-5-6 20:0:47 by Jerome Armstrong]: With 35% reporting, Clinton leads by 57-43 in Indiana. The CNN exit polls of NC show Clinton winning by a 60-36 margin among white voters, but that is offset by the near-unanimous vote by blacks for Obama. It's tough to read anything else in the polls as mattering, among the demographic data, with this result in hand. And as far as the skin color goes, for the 17% for whom "Was Race of Candidate Important to You", they were by a 62-32 margin, Obama voters. And though Clinton wins among those that decided the day of the vote in NC by a 54-43 margin, its only a 49-48 margin for Clinton for the last three days. The racial split is only broken among the White 17-29 year-olds, which went for Obama by a 56-42 margin and made up 7% of the vote.

Update [2008-5-6 21:44:35 by Jerome Armstrong]: Obama up 56-42, by 14 percent, with 55% of the votes counted in North Carolina. Clinton up 52-48, by 4 percent, with 73% of the vote counted in Indiana. This is a win by Obama on the expectation level. The MSM has counted it as such, he took more delegates, and added to his popular vote total. No doubt, the scales were tipped to Obama's advantage on the expectations tonight. Obama's team expected to win Indiana, according to their spreadsheet, and North Carolina was an expected Obama blowout, a month ago. But the stakes changed, and that's been to Obama's advantage.

Update [2008-5-6 23:53:25 by Jerome Armstrong]: With 25% of Lake County in, and 91% of the vote in Indiana totaled, Clinton still leads the state 51-49, and by only about 20,000 votes. There are also remaining votes to be tallied in Porter & Laporte counties, which Clinton narrowly took, and a small rural Union county that Clinton will win. I think we have to conclude, that in the battle between SUSA and Zogby polling, the latter came out looking better this round.

Update [2008-5-7 0:8:22 by Jerome Armstrong]: Porter closes out, and Clinton's lead is up to about 21K. The voters remaining are in Union and Laporte counties, where Clinton leads. There are also remaining votes in three counties in the middle of the state where Obama won, and then Lake, which Obama leads. This could go on a while if Lake county makes it very close.



Display:


Let me be the first... (none / 0)

to demand decimal points in the percentages...

You know we will fight over it before the night is out!!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:24:54 PM EST

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

The exit polling data I am looking at says Clinton wins Democrats 53-47.

But of course you'll use the info more favorable to Clinton, Jerome.


by sorrodos on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:26:45 PM EST

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

Jerome didn't invent those figures he's picked them up from one of the exit polls. Where did you pick yours up from.


by ottovbvs on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (2.00 / 0)

Actually, in the exit poll that Jerome links to, Clinton leads Obama 53% to 47%

But then again, if Jerome says it's an "astounding 65-35 margin", then who the hell am I to argue.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:31:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (1.75 / 4)

Apparently, Jerome only considers white people Democrats.

What the exit poll says is that Hillary won 65% of white Democrats, Obama won 93% of black Democrats.


by vermontprog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:33:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (2.00 / 0)

HA! And it seems I hurt somebody's feelings. I can no longer rate :)


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

Welcome to the club :)


by sorrodos on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

first rule of fight club is that you don't talk about fight club.


Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

You went and had to say it, didn't you!  Now I have to remind you of the second rule, don't I!!


Capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my uncle Jack off a horse..." and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse..."
by igottheblues on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:53:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

it's not a very exclusive club...
by power of truth on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (2.00 / 2)

I'm tired of dividing people up. Let's get together and go after McCain


by Politicalslave on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:50:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (2.00 / 1)

Correction noted, thanks.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:48:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

This is where I "pulled" my data from.  I'm sure you've heard of the organization before: CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primari es/results/epolls/#INDEM


by sorrodos on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

Sorry Jerome, Obama still wins the nomination.


by agpc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:27:01 PM EST

Re: Indiana Election Thread (1.00 / 1)

But alas loses the general. Not that that's of much interest to you. Just so long as YOUR candidate is the nominee.


by ottovbvs on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

A Democrat will win the presidency in 2008.  Wouldn't matter if it were Clinton or Obama.  


by agpc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:32:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Republicans are Toxic (none / 0)

Heck, with the mess the Republicans have made of things the last 7 years, we could beat McCain in November if we ran a tree stump as our nominee with a rusty bucket as the VP.  All this talk about which of our candidates will lose against McCain is defeatist fantasy.  Obama would mop the floor with McCain.  So would Clinton.  WE. CANT. LOSE.

Stump/Bucket08


by protothad on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:36:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

you wouldn't be the first "the sky is falling Democrat" out there.


!
by alex100 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

Wait. Was it Obama that 50% say they'd never vote for?  


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:54:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

Oh yeah, and it is Hillary Clinton that 52% of the country despises.


by broncoelway on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:31:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

I don't get it.  HRC is supported by tradition democrats but we are constantly told that HRC is destroying the party?  Or HRC is not a democrat. To me it seems to me that her supporters are the Democratic Party.  


by giusd on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:29:27 PM EST

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

No according to the Obama supporters these are just democratic hayseeds who don't know nothing.


by ottovbvs on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:31:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We are ALL members of the Democratic party (none / 0)

Obama supporters.  Clinton Supporters.  Doesn't matter... we are all on the same team with the same overall goals for the country.  Yes, there are a few loudmouths that can't resist the urge to talk some smack, but I think most understand what is really important (defeating McCain in November).  Don't let the actions of a noisy few give you the wrong oppinion and distract you from the big picture.

Peace


by protothad on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:44:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (2.00 / 2)

The old Democratic party.  We have been moving into different demographics since the 'Dixiecrat' days.  Sooner or later we are going to have to come to the end of the 'generation' LBJ suggested, famously, for which signing the Civil Rights Act would lose us the presidency.  Obama is showing a way of doing that, Hillary is building her constituency out of the traditional heartland and claiming legitimacy as a consequence.  Your move.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

Funny how Latinos, which will outnumber blacks in the USA, you label as the past?  And the gender gap is only growing, as is the age gap.

Q: what % (of the total) of 18-29 vs 65+ voted in '04?


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:27:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

Good point.  I wasn't thinking of them specifically but there has been some significant movement there since CA.  And they don't seem like a 'Reagan Democrat' bloc as the rust-belt conservative Democrats have demonstrated themselves to be in the past.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:48:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

And don't you expect, based on evidence in the primary, that the old saw about 18-29 bracket voters has been disproved?  I haven't heard that argument made based on old data made since late last year.  Surely that's one marker we've hit in this primary season.  Millennials and all.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:54:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

No, in fact it's been identical to '04 levels, the 18-29 year-old vote. Tonight, 16% of IN were, and just 14% in IN. That 15% average is in fact the same as '04 levels.  


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:17:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

Are you comparing to primary turnout in 04 or GE?


by interestedbystander on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:50:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dito Heads (none / 0)

7% of Clinton's voters said they would not be satisfied if she were the nominee.  That is going to be about 3.6% of the total vote.  So she has that padding off of actual people who are supporting a Democrat in the fall.  So if it is a 4% difference we know the cause.

Clinton won
Republicans by 8 points
Conservatives by 30 points (even more among people who say they're very conservative)
People who say neither are trustworthy by 51 points
People who say neither share their values by 51 points
People who say both attacked unfairly by 32 points


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:29:45 PM EST

Re: Dito Heads (none / 0)

So Operation Chaos was good for about 50,000 Hillary votes in Indiana, it looks like.


by Angry White Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:33:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dito Heads (none / 0)

there abouts


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:33:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Jerome you got that Dem % wrong (none / 0)

It is just the white Dem vote that is breaking 65-35. Also, it seems that this election is turning out to be very close indeed.


by ann0nymous on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:33:24 PM EST

Re: Jerome you got that Dem % wrong (none / 0)

just the white Dem vote

Exactly. I know white dem voters don't count of course but they might in November.  


by ottovbvs on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome you got that Dem % wrong (none / 0)

Ever heard of a Democrat winning without AA support?


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome you got that Dem % wrong (none / 0)

no one said the white dem vote doesn't count. I am sure it was an honest mistake on Jerome's part (hoentsly, no snark here) that people pointed out. Your comment, though, seems to indicate that you think only white dems should be counted...


by AllergicToBS on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:11:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Election Thread (none / 0)

They (MSM) just called NC.

One shoe drops, now we wait for the other.


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:33:25 PM EST

Re: Indiana Election Thread (2.00 / 1)

Exit polls have Hillary winning IN by 52-48, Obama winning NC by 57-43.

Logic says Obama wraps it up for the fourth time.


by vermontprog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:35:01 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

All her voters are Republicans voting for her. Cause she is the weak candidate. They want to face her.


Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:47:32 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North (none / 0)

7% of her voters have no intention of voting for her in the fall...so subtract about 3.6% off her vote total


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:50:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bizzarre comment. (none / 0)

Both have strengths and weaknesses.  

Both need a unified party or either could lose to McCain. So when you insult Clinton supporters, you harm Barack Obama.  And when Clinton supporters insult Obama supporters, they harm Hillary Clinton.

This suggests to me that there is projection going on in which people project their personality into a candidate of choice and then play "war" on blogs.


by TomP on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Obama himself called IN the tie-breaker.  Let's see if he is true to his word.


by alamedadem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:48:43 PM EST

Rofl. (none / 0)

Rofl. Yeah. And if we followed everything Senator Clinton called the metric, she'd have dropped out after February 5th.

Give it a break.

Tonight's Obama's night. Early NC call and a likely close finish in Indiana.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rofl. (2.00 / 1)

...just words


by alamedadem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Jerome, you need to correct your statement.

The exit polling you link to says that Clinton wins among Democrats 53-47.  She wins 65-35 among white Democrats.

I'm pretty sure this is an unintentional move on your part, but not correcting leaves you open for all sorts of nasty attacks.


by sorrodos on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:49:19 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North (none / 0)

This of course is irrelevant. It won't be irrelevant in November. And that's the problem.


by ottovbvs on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:51:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North (none / 0)

Umm... I'm pretty sure that non-white Democrats wouldn't agree that its irrelevant.

But keep enjoying your bubble.... its going to burst soon.


by sorrodos on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North (none / 0)

States with large AA blocs don't count, haven't you heard?  Only low income white voters east of the Mississippi count.  I think it's in the Constitution somewhere.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Poblano predicted a 2-point Clinton victory in Indiana. I'm tracking his county predictions, and so far, Obama is outperforming in many of those counties. I don't think an upset Obama victory can be ruled out right now.


Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:49:56 PM EST

Here we go again (none / 0)

It seems we're right we're we started.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:49:59 PM EST

Re: Here we go again (none / 0)

How do you figure?  If Obama kicked ass in NC then he is going to put the pledged delegate lead in the untouchable category.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again (none / 0)

I figure in a sense that come tomorrow that we have two candidates, one of whom will be hitting hard with negative ads and silly pander


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:57:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Can we have a moratorium on redundant diaries on these two primaries unless the diary writer has some significant analysis to offer?


by Pravin on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:51:10 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Drudge-

FLASH: It looks like Hillary's last, best chance of closing delegate gap is slipping away tonight. With clock running out on her, if she couldn't make up ground this week, it's impossible to imagine scenario where she could... MORE...


Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:52:31 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (2.00 / 1)

"Look for whomever wins by the largest margin in either state to have the edge with the spin."

Man, I just have to laugh at that.

Spinning the Prediction for the Spin?

Classic!


Support the separation of Church and State: Vote YES on WA R-71!
by WashStateBlue on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:53:07 PM EST

whomever wins by the largest margin (none / 0)

Whaaaaaaa? Dude this is so so dishonest. NC is a bigger state with more delegates, Obama will win the popular vote and the delegate count tonight. No one will consider Clinton the winner, by any metric.


by Hatch on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:56:47 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Hillary can't even get single digits of the black vote?  That is really bad... REALLY bad...  There is no way she could repair that rift in sic months... and no democrat can win the general without the black vote.


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:57:08 PM EST

rifted (none / 0)

And that's just one 'rift' she has.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

We hear a lot of people saying the math just doesn't work for Clinton. I don't think the math is working for Obama, and I'm not talking about the primaries. If he's given the nomination, how can he possibly win the general election without the blue-collar white vote? Some say he'll get them back, but he never had them to begin with. McCain already has them half-way in his pocket.


by zenful6219 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:59:21 PM EST

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

If Obama ends up getting kneecapped, then rev up the Draft Gore machine, because a Hillary win is impossible.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

Blue collar whites and Latinos will be the key to Democrats winning the general election. Obama can't win them.


by zenful6219 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

I'm blue collar white.  And why are you ignoring all the white states he won?  Is Iowa still a state?  Utah?  Virginia?  and you think latin americans will go Repub?


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

So you're Nostradamus and we're the cultists?  Sheesh.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:01:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

I'm sorry, what?


by zenful6219 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

Your premise is based on crystal ball gazing of the general which is, dare I say, highly subjective.  Let's stick with the facts and forget the campaign narratives.  Either candidate would kick McCain's butt in November.  Bank on it.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:08:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

Here's a fact. Obama is performing poorly with blue collar whites and Latinos. They comprise a huge portion of Democrats. These groups have voted Republican in the past and will again. It doesn't make them feel better when an Obama supporter like Donna Brazile tells them on national television that Obama doesn't need them in the general election(Yes, she did say it tonight on CNN). Oh, and I almost forgot, Obama's refusal to allow Florida and Michigan to be seated means he's probably alienated even more blocks of Democrats. Obama may win the popular vote in primaries (except for Florida and Michigan), but Hillary is the more viable candidate to win the White House.


by zenful6219 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

'Hillary is the more viable candidate to win the White House.'  Subjective assertion based on information known only to the astrologer within.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:50:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

Let's throw up our hands and surrender to racism.


Howard Dean is my go-to guy
by lojasmo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

'Truer words..."

The funny part about Michigan, is that Obama wins there in a revote, according to the latest polls.


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

Wins in CA as well.  Lots of Clinton buyers' remorse out there.

Of course, Clinton's win in CA was largely, if not completely, due to early voting.  There was already voters' remose there.


Howard Dean is my go-to guy
by lojasmo on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:30:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

The economy and Republican immigration policies will assure that the blue collar voters and latinos swing Democratic big time, whoever our nominee is. Also, lets not forget these demographics care about Iraq just like everyone else.

The FL and MI issue does need to be dealt with, but I suspect they will be seated before this is all over, and there will be lots of fence mending when we have a nominee.  If Obama is the nominee, he may loose Florida, but Michigan will still vote for him.  Either way, we mop the floor with the Republicans this time.

Cheers


by protothad on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:54:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (2.00 / 1)

Sigh...the vast majority of Clinton voters would support Obama and the vast majority of Obama voters would support Clinton against McCain.  Ignore the polls.

In 2000 pollsters asked McCain voters if they would vote for Bush against Gore, and large numbers of them said they wouldn't.  Guess what they did end voting for the guy.


by Skaje on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:15:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"if Obama is given the nomination"? (none / 0)

I assume you are implying that he hasn't earned it...but Clinton has somehow; am I correct?


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:09:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Collar White Voters (none / 0)

"given the nomination"!? - please.


by AllergicToBS on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:15:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Problems in Tippecanoe County (none / 0)

(Copied from another thread)
CNN has it 100% reporting, with turnout less than 1000! (521-421 Obama.)

For comparison, Kerry won 21-22,000 votes there in 2004.

According to its Wikipedia page, it has a population of 150k. In comparison, Boone has a population of ~50k, and has ~7k voters already with 32% reporting.

This is either because of massive vote suppression (new voter id laws), or a bug in the voting machines


John McCain
by MILiberal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:02:35 PM EST

Re: Problems in Tippecanoe County (none / 0)

No chance that it's a reporting glitch on CNN's end?


by KyleJRM on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That too (none / 0)

Sorry, forgot to mention it. But its quite strange. We've seen glitches like these in many primaries so far, and I think we should at the very least get more funding to elections to minimize them.


John McCain
by MILiberal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:07:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No matter what (none / 0)

happens in IN tonight (today for me) and the margin in NC is, the reality is nothing will have changed.

Neither candidate will have the required delegates to get over the line.  Each camp will use the same arguments they did 24 hours ago to try and woo supers to their side (and gain the edge in the media narrative).

So tomorrow morning the dust will settle and all will be the same.  And since we have made it this far, while at each others throats a bit, lets let this keep going (hopefully with more civility and less pandering) between now and the last contest.  Lets give WV, KY, Montana, Oregon, SD and PR (hopefully not leaving anyone out) a chance to get their dem excitment up.

At this point, Im all in for having this 'open' until then.  Its gets the base rallied in every state which will help in November.

So enjoy your candidates victories tonight.  They have campaigned hard and have earned it.  It looks like both sides will pull one out.


by pattonbt on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:03 PM EST

Re: No matter what (none / 0)

Well, no, Obama will have added to his delegate count margin and his popular vote margin.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No matter what (none / 0)

I will put money that you are a Clinton supporter. The truth is that a lot has changed tonight. Tonight was the last chance that Hillary could make some serious inroads against Obama's delegate lead. She didn't do it.  MT,OR and SD will go for Obama while WV and KY will be picked up by Clinton. PR will probabaly go for Clinton, but obviously that's not going to help her sway the Superdelgates.

Tonight, was the turning point. Obama's message will be focused on McCain, and having a reconciliatory tone toward Clinton.  The only real question that remains is this Will Hillary continue to bloody up a candidate that won't retaliate  as strong because he needs her support to win the White House? Will she drag this out to the convention, knowing that the only way she can win is overriding the popular vote and the Superdelgates?  


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No matter what (none / 0)

If you look at my history I think you would see who I support (I'll give you a hint, I am a happy person right now).

I just happen to be pessimistic (or jaded might be a better description).

I'll wait a day or two before believing tonight changes the game, but it almost couldnt have gone better for Obama.

I still do not believe Hillary will concede.  I believe she will take it to the convention and nothing can stop her from doing so.


by pattonbt on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:22:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Waaaah (none / 0)

When Obama wins black voters it's not fair!


by TL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:03:53 PM EST

New NC SD for Obama (none / 0)

Jeanette Council (NC) has endorsed Obama for President.

   "I would have no problem voting for either of the two," she said. "But of the two, I think Barack Obama is the better candidate."

http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=29 3306


by parahammer on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:05:43 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

On CNN, Donna Brazile just said that Obama's new Democratic coalition doesn't need Latinos and blue-collar whites to win the general election. With that kind of attitude, if Obama's the nominee, they'll go to McCain. Who's left to vote for Obama that could overcome that?


by zenful6219 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:09:06 PM EST

No she did not. (none / 0)

She did not say that.  Those are words that Begalla but in her mouth and she corrected him immediately.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:57:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No she did not. (none / 0)

My friend, you are absolutely wrong. She did say it.


by zenful6219 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:36:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Was Race of Candidate Important to You? (none / 0)

Jerome believes that question deserves attention - but not this?

Was Gender of Candidate Important to You?

Yes     (15%) No (84%)
Clinton   62%      50%
Obama     38%      50%


by Drew on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:15:37 PM EST

And I'll note (none / 0)

That I have yet to see a pro-Obama diary titled, "
This One's For the People of Color."

Some identity politics is apparently more acceptable than others, clearly.


by Drew on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:16:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

GOBAMA! (none / 0)

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGH!


GeauxBama!
by DailyKingFish on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:47:01 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (2.00 / 1)

Goodnight, Irene


by realcountrymusic on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:52:36 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (2.00 / 1)

So, Jerome, how'd that gas tax issue work out for Hillary?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:52:54 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Electi (none / 0)

She did fine on it, winning Indiana, which the Obama campaign said they would win handily. The problem with her campaign was that they lost the expectations game.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:05:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Electi (none / 0)

But wouldn't you say Jerome that the Obama camp's confidence was pre Wright?  The fact that Indiana is close affirms that the O camp is not falling apart, losing momentum and voters?


summer is for swimming
by susu1969 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:15:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carol (none / 0)

It never was that big of a problem to begin with, within the Democratic party-- thats been the thing all along with these things that have come out against Obama. They are GE issue.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Electi (none / 0)

jeez.

No, the problem for her campaign had nothing to do with an expectations game. The problem with her campaign is that they lost another battle in a war that has few left.


!
by alex100 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:54:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Electi (none / 0)

She hadn't won Indiana, yet... and even the famous spreadsheet only predicted an Obama win of 3%... He's certainly within the margin of error.


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:56:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 3% (none / 0)

If you allow for operation chaos, the 3% prediction looks golden.


by interestedbystander on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:04:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

no subject (none / 0)

methinks that obama should be more harshly penalized for botching up N.C. as he did. My god, he was off by like 5 points!


!
by alex100 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:22:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

yes, the stakes have changed.....but didn't they also change in PA? wasn't hillary supposed to have a "blowout" there a month prior? looks like 14% is gonna have to do (compared to 9%). even if she gains on this in the next hours, he's still got 5% to get to her level of performance.

oh yeah, when's the last time hillary won a contest by 14%??? how many has she won by that number? how many has barack won by that number?

i thought so.


by j cantarella on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:56:36 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

OMG! Lenny Davis just gave what I think a conciliatory speech for Hillary losing Indiana on CNN!

Can this girl get more tipsy.....tipsy from hope, and Barcardi!


summer is for swimming
by susu1969 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:01:25 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Obama did not "Expect a blowout in NC". He predicted an 8% win.

He underperformed in IN and overperformed his spreadsheet in NC.

that's to be expected.


!
by alex100 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:51:50 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Jerome, you raise a good point about Team Obama saying they would win Indiana.  But be honest, and tell us when the campaign said that.  If this was a projection from January, it would seem a bit different than if they'd said it last week.  Really, we can handle the truth.


by niksder on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:51:56 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Hillary cancels all her appearances on the morning shows tomorrow!  That's pretty big news!


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:55:13 PM EST

yep (none / 0)

It really is.    There's only a few things that could signify...


by semiquaver on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:56:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Election Thread (none / 0)

Source?


by bobbank on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:59:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Election Thread (2.00 / 1)

Tim Russert said it on the air.


by nwodtuhs on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Russert also reported an impending agreement where Obama will pay off Clinton's campaign debts in return for her quitting.

Fineman reported on MSNBC that Obama will make a deal to seat FL and MI on May 31 at the rules committee meeting since it will be all wrapped up by then.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:30:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

I don't think anyone is interested in poll victors, just on who won the state.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:59:17 PM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina El (none / 0)

heh, you'd be surprised!


by Jerome Armstrong on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana & North Carolina El (none / 0)

Only people who are way too into this keep track of pollsters... Sadly that is my life.

I did project Obama by .3% in Indiana - I'm going to open a polling company


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Porter County is in (none / 0)

Laporte is at 88%, but it was 52-48 so it won't change much. Monroe County (Bloomington) is only 67% in so Obama could pick up some.

Marion (Indianapolis) is 98% in.

And Lake County is 28% in.

And tiny Union County has not reported.


by elrod on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:03:36 AM EST

Porter is done (none / 0)

Just Union and parts of Monroe and Lake left. Tiny Marion and Hamilton votes left.

20,000 votes? Maybe.


by elrod on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:07:43 AM EST

Re: Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

Why can't Obama close the... er. um. shit.


by AllergicToBS on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:29:46 AM EST

Hey Jerome: A Black man beat your candidate! (1.00 / 1)

How does it feel?


by TMP on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:37:16 AM EST

Re: Hey Jerome: A Black man beat your candidate! (none / 0)

That is not helpful


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:58:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Indiana & North Carolina Election Thread (none / 0)

I say give Hillary's fans a few days to take it all in rather than rubbing it in.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:53:24 AM EST

Expectations game: (none / 0)

Indiana
RCP: Clinton 49-44% +5
Result(99%): Clinton 51-49% +2

North Carolina
RCP: Obama 50-42% +8
Result 100%: Obama 56-42% +14

There's no question which exceeded expectations.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:28:08 AM EST


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