Indiana Votes

Polls opened this morning at 6am Central time in Indiana and close tonight at 6pm. In a sign of the sort of turnout we should expect today, here's one anecdote from the Indianapolis metro area:

More voters have turned out in the first half hour than usually turn out in a half day, said Democrat precinct committeeman Cordelia Lewis-Burkes.

IN Secretary of State Todd Rokita has said that based on registration numbers and early voting and absentee turnout, they prepared for today as though it were a general election. Hotline has some numbers:

-- More than 140K people registered to vote in Indiana since the last election, and more than 160K people updated their registrations. The largest surge the state has ever seen.

-- The state received 167,783 absentee ballots by its noon deadline today, marking a "milestone" in absentee participation, Rokita said. [...]

-- Since 2004, Rokita estimates that the state has added about 600,000 people to their voter rolls. He said that many counties are preparing as if this were a general election.

In some potential good news for Barack Obama, as of Friday, a disproportionate percentage of the absentee ballots, 20%, came from just three counties, Marion, Monroe and Lake, all of which should go for Obama today. On the other hand, while people have touted the fact that Indiana is adjacent to Illinois and overlaps with the Chicago media market as plusses for Obama, on Hardball yesterday they were talking about how Clinton's internals show her even with Obama in northwest Indian, where Obama should be running away with it. The reason: Chicago local media is still covering Reverend Wright on a daily basis.

So what result are we likely to see tonight? Not shockingly, I'll go on the record predicting a Clinton win, yet another opportunity for John Zogby to eat some crow (in his final tracking poll, Zogby once again has Obama up 2 points.) One of the main reasons Zogby's likely to be off tonight, check out this doozy from his poll analysis:

In Indiana, the race is all tied up among women who plan to vote in the Democratic presidential primary--at 44% each...

Really? Survey USA's final poll, which has Clinton up 12%, shows her leading among women by a 60-38 margin. Who are you going to believe?

The question is will it be a double digit victory for Clinton as many are predicting. I think 10% is the best margin she can hope for, but my instinct is that it will come in just under that. The folks over at Blue Indiana seem to agree.

Are you on the ground in Indiana? What are you seeing? And even if you're not, what's your gut telling you?

Update [2008-5-6 12:48:51 by Todd Beeton]:This is interesting, via Hotline:

Polls in Indiana close early at 6 p.m. Elections officials at each polling site have to designate "a shoot," which is about 50-feet from where voters enter the polling area to vote. Anyone who wants to get into vote has to be within the "shoot" by 6 p.m. How this area is chosen is arbitrary depending on election monitors. Watch for that to be a possible issue up in Northwest Indiana, which should field a large majority of the Democratic vote and would be likely territory for any lawsuits to keep the polls open longer.



Display:


Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

My gut tells me Hillary +7


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:30:02 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Hillary will continue to stay in the single digits here. Obama has a good chance to go double digits in North Carolina.

Interesting to see if it does go to +7% because that would be a real downtrend for clinton, who was favored to win this state by a higher margin.

Its almost as if Pennsylvania's single digit victory was the last straw for some of the new voters trying to make up their minds. They are beginning to think Clinton simply can't close the deal.

Good luck Indiana.


by Trey Rentz on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 2)

Hey Todd. CHUTE is spelled C H U T E not "SHOOT"


by Trey Rentz on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Actaully, Obama was favored to win given their leaked spreadsheet showing him at 53%


by reggie44pride on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:26:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Spreadsheet. (none / 0)

That spreadsheet's old.  It also predicted him losing Maine, which he ultimately won by 20 points.


John McCain: He flunked ECON 101.
by Shem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 05:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Spreadsheet. (none / 0)

They were being conservative.  They've predicted each race winner correctly besides Maine.  

I do think Clinton would have done better in a primary there.  I don't think Axelrod figured Clinton would give up on the caucuses so easily.


by reggie44pride on Tue May 06, 2008 at 06:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Interesting statistical forecast:

http://election08data.blogspot.com/2008/ 05/indiana-and-north-carolina-forecasts. html

Predicts Clinton w/ 52.7 in Indiana, Obama with 53.3 in NC.

I actually see both of those as too close---Clinton winning bigger in IN, Obama winning bigger in NC---but he's got actual numbers and graphs, and I got what I think.  


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 2)

I think N.C is where the real battle is and where the election will be decided.


by nzubechukwu on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:33:00 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Pablano has an outstanding analysis on N.C.:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/n orth-carolina-prediction-obama-by.html

yeah, i think he overestimates Obama's numbers, perhaps by as much as 10% but he's aware of that and explains with great detail why.

in any regard, I disagree with him somewhat. I don't think Obama goes over 12% in N.C. but I still found it to be a great read.


!
by alex100 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:44:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 2)

Hillary will probably win IN, but my guess is that NC does in fact end in double digits.

And this is a major loss for Hillary.  Her math gets even worse every time she doesn't pull ahead.  Now, I understand that many here don't give a fig for the math, but a perusal of super-delegate comments over the last few months is indicative that they most certainly DO give a fig for the math.

There are literally dozens of s-d's who have said that they will support the pledged delegate leader at the end of voting.  Hillary can't afford to lose EVEN ONE VOTE at this time; she needs to not only catch up to Obama but to switch over more then a hundred of his s-d's in order to win.

It's akin to a football game; Team Hillary is behind in the 4th quarter and need a miracle to win, and what more, they are still giving up touchdowns to the other team, putting them even farther behind.  It doesn't inspire confidence.


by Lawyerish on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:34:33 PM EST

No, no, no.... You miss the key point. (none / 0)

If Clinton can simply find some justification for dragging this out to the late-August Convention, Obama probably loses to McCain and then in 2012 she can become America's first female President!

(PS-- we all know Obama probably loses anyway.)


Clinton Democrats care about the same things I do, most importantly beating John McCain.
by TrueBlueCT on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, no, no.... You miss the key point. (none / 0)

I don't know that Obama loses.  I think he's going to absolutely clobber McCain this Fall.  I'm stunned that others think McCain can win.  He is perhaps the most flawed candidate the Republicans have put up in the last 4 cycles.


by Lawyerish on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:47:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, no, no.... You miss the key point. (2.00 / 2)

>> (PS-- we all know Obama probably loses anyway.)

It's funny how "we all know" that Obama will lose anyway, and that this certain knowledge then becomes a jusification for further undermining him.  I've seen this reasoning from a lot of Clinton supporters, and indeed it seems to be what the candidate herself believes.

The degree of self-righteousness implicit in this thinking is pretty disturbing, to say the least.


by Frood on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

And there are also literally dozens of SD's who are waiting to see what happens.

The "OBAMA MATH" geniuses have all been screaming at Hillary she doesn't stand a chance.

She just keep sproving them and the MATH wrong.

Obama has lost PHASE I of the Nomination process, the individual priomaries.  He did not pull away and garner the 20225 he needed.  He, and Hillary, will go to PHASE II, the Superdelegates, where anything goes.

They are not bound by votes in their district, by popular votes, by last primary won, by voter totals in their state, by anything.  They are only charged with voting for the candidate they deem the best against John McCain.

You Obama supporters have been trying to spin this and pressure and point and scream, but there it is:  Both candidates will come in with solid resumes, solid results, solid arguments.

And Hillary will win.


by dembluestates on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

>> The "OBAMA MATH" geniuses have all been screaming
>> at Hillary she doesn't stand a chance.

>> She just keeps proving them and the MATH wrong.

But she hasn't proved the math wrong.  The math said that she would have an extremely difficult time closing Obama's pledged delegate lead, and in fact she has: Obama's lead is almost exactly the same as it was a month and a half ago.

The "math" never said that Clinton couldn't keep campaigning in spite of this.

>> You Obama supporters have been trying to spin
>> this and pressure and point and scream, but there
>> it is:  Both candidates will come in with solid
>> resumes, solid results, solid arguments.

I've seen plenty of spinning and pointing and screaming from the Clinton side of things.

But I can agree that both candidates are strong and both would be fine presidents, so the beer's on me if I ever meet you in person.


by Frood on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:34:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Can you explain to me how Obama lost the pledged delegate battle, when he clearly leads in that metric?

I am absolutely incredulous that someone can hold such a ridiculous position.


by sorrodos on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:49:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

I've never understood that, either.

One candidate hasn't gotten enough delegates yet to lock up the nomination.  Therefore, we should support the candidate who's even further from locking up the nomination?


by Frood on Tue May 06, 2008 at 03:06:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

It's very simple.  People who think Clinton is the better candidate are doing so based on the coalition of voters she has put together.  They also look at her strength in FL.  All these points are fair and above board.  Then they throw in MI and jump the shark.

I voted for Obama, but the longer he looks like he's limping to the finish line, the more credence the Clinton argument has, because it is not fair for people to claim Obama is stronger on delegates if he loses when a reasonable interpretation of FL is included.  

Somewhere in between lies the truth.  In the end, Clinton will concede, and we'll move on.  I'm just hoping it happens before she becomes indistinguishable from your average loudmouth ditto-head.  She's walked right up the edge to get a few more points in Indiana.  Now she needs to stop.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 03:40:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 2)

NC is going to be a lot closer than folks think.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:35:36 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 2)

Early voting is off the chart in NC.

Obama by 15%+


Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:41:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 2)

The south has a tendency to be able to discover a person's basic instinct and drive. Obama will carry NC, but I suspect the 15 percent number to be a bit incorrect.

Having said that, helping Obama win my state - I was blown away by what he did here (almost 27% )

North Carolina is by far the richest prize today in the contest. Be nice to see a myDD front page  about NC somewhere.


by Trey Rentz on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

you'll have to wait for Singer to do that me thinks.

singer? you out there?


!
by alex100 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:45:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

As much as I would like to agree with you, I think NC is close to a tossup.  There is tremendous enthusiasm among the partisans of both camps.  I think it is impossible to know the outcome of this one, but I think it will be very close.


by mady on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

Really?  What makes you think it's a toss-up?

I'm guessing Obama by 12 in NC, and Clinton by 6 in IN.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

The ability of Bill Clinton, who has been campaigning in NC like a whirling dervish, to get her voters out.  I am hoping for a strong Obama win, but am a natural pessimist anyway, and Bill's been a machine.  Plus the reports of strong early turnout in "her" areas.  


by mady on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:22:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Clinton has done better the higher the turnout (in primaries). This is because her core supporters are not frequent voters (particularly Latinos and blue collar whites).

The myth that Obama is favored with high turnout comes entirely from caucus states.


by ColoradoGuy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:05:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Yup.


by mady on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, I agree Clinton does better in high turnout from what I have seen of the results of regular primaries (California comes to mind)- it always depends on where the high turnout occurs or which candidate's supporters are more fired up. The thing Obama might loose ground on in NC and IN is Independents (who he won more in the past), Conservatives, and previously-registered Democrats (not the newly-registered ones), but in Survey USA's last NC and IN polls Hillary had won many of them over. Obama's strength is among 'liberal' voters who favor him by a wide margin. We'll see what happens...


by sunnyaz08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:35:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

this is entirely unsubstantiated. Obama has done well where turnout has outperformed the estimates. The most recent state was MS for example.

in fact, this primary has been well documented for having super high turnout in almost every state tracked. Obama has outperformed some polls by a ton and Clinton has outperformed some polls by a ton.


!
by alex100 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Voter ID issues? (2.00 / 5)

Please, if anyone on the ground sees evidence of people being turned away in IN due to the new Supreme Court decision--post!

In fact, get their name, if possible. One of the reasons the Court was able to justify such an egregious decision is that they claimed that they couldn't find people who had actually been prevented form voting.

At least, I'm intensely curious how it is playing out today.


by tomchaps on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:41:13 PM EST

Re: Voter ID issues? (2.00 / 1)

It has been reported on TV that 12 nuns were turned away from voting in IN because they did not have photo IDs.


by susie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 04:48:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter ID issues? (none / 0)

That is the kind of story that might give pro-voting rights people some ammunition.

And always remember--it's not that they need a photo-ID, it's that they need a passport or driver's license with their current address on it (no matter how recently they moved, no matter what backup documentation they have.)

It makes sense that nuns, if they were relocated, wouldn't be able to meet this requirement.


by tomchaps on Tue May 06, 2008 at 05:44:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 4)

As many people know, I am an ardent and fervent supporter of Obama, having said that, Hillary is, along with Bill, two of the single greatest campaigner's in modern history.  She has done extraordinarily well after being down to Obama initially.  While I don't agree with all the tactics (from both sides) I can appreciate them in the context of a modern political campaign.  Well done, Hillary - regardless of the outcome.


Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:42:45 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

I heard that Bill Clinton was courting republicans out there in Indiana. Meeting with ... was it his old nemesis in congress - the supporters of his old enemy in congress, to get votes?  Is that true?


by Trey Rentz on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

I have no idea, but I wouldn't surprise me. They are playing the game to win and they have proven time and time again they will do whatever is necessary to ensure that victory.  This wouldn't surprise me terribly.


Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

You must be talking about Obama, demagoguing a mild gas tax bill (and lying about it), or claiming that Hillary had sent a photo of him in Kenyan dress to the media after this had been disproven, or repeatedly calling her divisive and unelectable, or lying about taking money from lobbyists, or lying about her health care bill's mandates...

There is a candidate here who will do anything, say anything to win, and his name is Barack Obama.  


by RedSox04 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

A "mild gas tax bill"?

Give me a break.

The things that this bill would accomplish are anything but mild:  it would drain revenue used for highways/infrastructure maintenance and allow the oil companies to increase the amount of gasoline they sell.


by sorrodos on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:54:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

Also, please give me examples of what Hillary's done to show "time and time again" that she'll do whatever is necessary to win.  I hear this point repeated over and over, without any examples that haven't been discredited (such as the Kenyan dress rumor).

The single best example I can cite to show Hillary's non-negative campaigning is the fact that they didn't release the Wright story (and if you think they did, then you're basically claiming that they held this story all through the primaries she was losing, which is totally implausible).  Hillary's team definitely had that information about Wright, and yet they sat on it.  Why?  According to you, the media, and every other unquestioning Obama supporter, Hillary will do anything to win.  Why wouldn't she have released the Wright story when it would have helped her?

On the other hand, we know that Obama released a memo, after losing NH and entering into SC, where he was trailing heavily among black voters, arguing that Hillary and her husband were racist, based on nonsensical, out-of-context examples.

Who will do anything to win?  Barack Obama.


by RedSox04 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:18:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

I actually think both Obama and Clinton have shown restraint.  Given that this is such a contentious and lengthy election, I think both sides deserve relative praise.

The idea that Obama will do anything to win seems a bit unfair since he's not exploited or discussed any of the various scandals of the Bill Clinton presidency.  I think what frustrates most Obama supporters is that the Wright controversy should not play such an important role in people's votes.  If you think it SHOULD, then you and I simple see the world differently.  But for me, Hillary's use of the Wright controversy and her conflation of Wright, Obama, and Farrakhan is deeply troubling and is a far cry from what I'd want her to do if she were my candidate: i.e., say that this MUST stop.  

Also, what do you say to the 68% of PA voters who thought Hillary was unfairly critical?  Do you think there dupes of the msm or do you lend them some credit?  

Neither candidate is a saint.


by chrispy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:33:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

I can't imagine that to be true. Clinton's arch-nemesis here, Dan Burton, has been running radio ads against his primary opponent using a Hillary Clinton voice impressionist.


by zep93 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:20:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

you mean Dan Burton?


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:20:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill certainly loves to campaign. (none / 0)

That much is apparent.  It really is his element.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:27:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmm... (2.00 / 2)

Hillary was leading in every poll last summer when the campaign was just ramping up.  Now she's losing.  How does that make her one of the greatest campaigners in modern history?


by corph on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:34:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 2)

Another primary day and another record turnout.

Regardless of which side of the fence you're standing on in this fight, Clinton and Obama are GOTV machines and the party owes them both a huge debt of gratitude for our trouncing of McCain in November.


Voting for John McCain is not God bless America.
by SFValues on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:00:13 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

yeah, zogby will always be off. even when they're right they're wrong.

I predicted an obama win in IN many weeks ago (on the strength of northwest IN) but that prediction was way off. He'll lose by at least 6 and he won't carry n.w. IN by any considerable margin.


!
by alex100 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:01:45 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 4)

A shoot?  I'm thinking maybe "chute".

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/c hute


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:06:30 PM EST

Chute (none / 0)

I think so, too.  I'll be the person who wrote down "shoot" heard somebody say it and didn't get the analogy.

It's from cross-country running races, where the finishing runners enter into a funnel, or "chute" as they cross the finish line.

In running, the chute keeps them in the order of finish so the marshals can keep the results accurate.    Hmm.  Marshals...  Accurate results....


by DFLer on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hotline's fixed it (none / 0)

They now have it reading 'chute.'


by RT on Tue May 06, 2008 at 03:27:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 2)

The governor's race in Indiana helps drive up participation as well.  People here are sick of Daniels.  I'll be voting for Long Thompson for Gov. and Obama for Pres.  My hunch is that Long Thompson people will generally go toward Hillary and Shellinger people will go Obama, so governor race exit polls should be telling (although I'm obviously an exception to this).


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:06:43 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

Do they really mean "shoot", as opposed to "chute"? Hmm ....


by ColoradoGuy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:07:11 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

heh.  I beat you by a minute.  ;)


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:11:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OED sez... (none / 0)

"3. b. A narrow passage or enclosure for cattle or sheep."


by FlipYrWhig on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OED sez... (none / 0)

lol!  the imagery is so entertaining.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 4)

Just voted here in NC--for Hillary--and after keeping his cards close to his chest, so did my husband. He was undecided, but he's been listening over the past few weeks as I've rebutted the same-old-same-old negative stuff another family member (Obama-supporter) was spouting.  I did my research so I could use direct quotes and video clips rather than engage in a bashorama.  While I couldn't change Obama-supporter's vote (already  cast early), I did transform a hardened Hillary-basher into someone willing to vote for her if she gets the nom, AND my undecided hubby voted Hillary.


by ahw on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:09:39 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Dear ahw, thank you. Score 1 more vote for the facts. It is easy to sway somebody to vote for Clinton when the "media filter" is turned off and the details presented.


by glennmcgahee on Tue May 06, 2008 at 03:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

I live in the Chicago media market and I think your analysis is off. Gary is a post apocalyptic wasteland that I seriously don't think Hillary will get 10 percent in. Add to that the college areas of Northern Indiana and Hillary is going to have to get a lot from the south of the state to offset the numbers from the north.

Indiana isn't just a Republican state, it is a Republican stronghold. There is a weird vibe throughout that place, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those Republicans went to all sorts of trouble to make sure this race continues. This is the sort of thing people should expect though when one race is over and the other is not.


by wengler on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:11:22 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

The way you describe Gary makes me think "Hillary country," at least among white voters. What makes you think a poor neighborhood is friendly to Obama? That certainly hasn't been the pattern to date, except where African American and poor neighborhood intersect. The higher the income, the more likely someone votes for Obama.


by ColoradoGuy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:17:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

I don't think there are very many white voters in Gary.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:42:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

2000 census data for Gary:
The racial makeup of the city was 84.03% African American, 11.92% White, 0.21% Native American, 0.14% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 1.97% from other races, and 1.71% from two or more races. 4.93% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Didn't I read that that the Gary school system bussed high school students to the polls for early voting for "educational" value?


by susie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 04:55:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

What about Hammond?


by susie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 04:53:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 3)

Indiana should seriously consider adopting North Carolina's rules on poll closings.

If you're in line at closing time, you get to vote.  The officer on duty simpy joins the end of the line when the polls were scheduled to close, and politely informs anyone trying to join after that time that they did not make it in time.  But anyone in front of them gets to vote, even if it takes hours.


by Wayward Son on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:17:11 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

That's the way I thought everybody does it.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:31:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Illinois affected by Rush (none / 0)

Well, Rush Limbaugh is crowing about getting Republicans to vote for Hillary. So assuming she wins, there will be a lot of discussion about how this affected the outcome and the margins.

Since this is the top story on The Page, it should make its way into MSM coverage.
http://thepage.time.com/2008/05/06/chaos /
http://thepage.time.com/

Here Rush here http://i.timeinc.net/time/2008/thepage/L imbaugh_050608.mp3


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:41:34 PM EST

Re: Illinois affected by Rush (none / 0)

Ooops -- HEAR Rush here - He's reading e-mails from Indiana listeners about how they had to push themselves to vote for Clinton, but were doing it to undermine the Democratic party.
http://i.timeinc.net/time/2008/thepage/L imbaugh_050608.mp3
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:42:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Illinois affected by Rush (none / 0)

Ugh.  Its illegal, right?  Hopefully he reads their names on the air.  


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Zogby endorsed Obama??? (none / 0)

Is this the same Zogby that endorsed Obama?

James J. Zogby, as a superdelegate, has endorsed Barack Obama for President.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?tit le=James_J._Zogby

If that's the case....It's personally difficult for me to trust any poll that "Zogby" does in reference to the election.


by soyousay on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:55:18 PM EST

Re: Zogby endorsed Obama??? (2.00 / 1)

James Zogby is President and CEO of the polling firm.  His brother, John Zogby is an Obama super delegate and a senior analyst at the polling firm.

And no, I don't trust them either, but ironically they may have hurt Obama more than helped him this cycle by raising his expectations bar, especially in California.


by markjay on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Zogby endorsed Obama??? (none / 0)

They are both Muslims I believe.  You might want to diary that.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Zogby endorsed Obama??? (none / 0)

What difference does that make?


by soyousay on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:08:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Zogby endorsed Obama??? (none / 0)

Well, actually, they aren't Muslims, but they are Arabs, which is kind of the same thing to a lot of people.  

Clinton is going to need another faux-outrage for June.  I was just trying to help.  The biggest casualty of this primary has been the netroots' sense of humor.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Zogby endorsed Obama??? (none / 0)

Not only does that not matter, but I don't think it's true.  I believe they are of Lebanese origin and Christian. There are (or at least were) many Lebanese Christians.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Zogby endorsed Obama??? (none / 0)

Thanks for the info. It must be all in the family :D


by soyousay on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Zogby endorsed Obama??? (none / 0)

Other way around. At least in the case of John Zogby. I don't know if James has anything to do with the firm.


by ColoradoGuy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 04:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Zogby polls seem to have a familiar pattern (none / 0)

They are always among the most optimistic for Obama (sometimes by a wide margin) in the period preceding the primary.  Then, on primary day, they resemble the other polls.  I almost wonder if Zogby does an intentional pro-Obama weighting of demographics on the lead up polls, then adjusts them to weightings of other pollsters so he can claim that his polls were just as accurate as anyone else's


by lombard on Tue May 06, 2008 at 04:18:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Zogby polls seem to have a familiar pattern (2.00 / 1)

Bingo. He's been doing this shit for years. Unlike polls sponsored by media outlets, Zogby makes his money on outlets picking up his numbers, so his goal always it to gather attention. He knows Obama supporters are rabid for good news on their guy (far more than Clinton supporters, who don't read the news as much, especially online). So he teases until he knows his reputation, what's left of it, is on the line, and then he reports true results.


by ColoradoGuy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 04:29:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

To anyone who says this legthy campaign season is hurting our party I'd say "just LOOK at these beautiful numbers re new Dems!

This years campaign is a PARTY BUILDER you guys - that's something to be celebrated, not shut down prematurely!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:07:29 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Obama voters will go to a "chute."

Annie Oakley voters can go to the "shoot."  (Watch out for Little Dickie Cheney)


Schmedlap
by Regis J Reynolds on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:30:03 PM EST

Nice diary TB (none / 0)

Interesting and informative. Great links...I too thought the "hotline" piece was interesting.


by soyousay on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:46:52 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

Indiana does allow everyone in line at 6 pm to vote.  In 2004, that meant that people will still voting on Diebold machines at midnight.

Both Obama and Clinton spoke at the Jefferson Jackson on Sunday.  It was a great turnout.  Fortunately, I had my ticket early because it sold out 3000 seats.

In Indiana, it is the economy stupid.  Obama wins on the Iraq war, but the worries have shifted to the economy.  People here remember the Clinton economy and that is driving the votes.  Indiana is the "Crossroads of America" and all the Chicago truck traffic to the East goes through Indiana.  Fuel costs are a big issue.

Our county has early voting and the turnout has been massive.  More people voted early than voted in the 06 primary.  We are hoping the coattails extend down ballot enough to unseat Republican Steve Buyer.  Buyer is hated by the Veterans because he stiffed them when was head of the House VA committee.  He was an impeachment manager for Clinton.  He usually won't debate his opponent, but he might this time.  Democrat Nels Ackerson has already raised more money.  Ackerson did a lot of pro-bono work for farmers against the utilities and railroads so he has a lot of support from Farm Bureau and rural area.  He has a shot at winning a "no Republican left behind district".


by bakho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:50:11 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

BTW, nobody can count the Superdelegate's votes until they actually vote. They might say one thing today as in, "I'm supporting Obama", then actually vote for Clinton when the time comes or the other way around. The same with the pledged delegates. At the convention, they vote based on their state's election, but, after the first ballot, if there is no clear winner. On the second ballot, its a free for all, everybody can vote their own way. They are not committed to anything but their heart.


by glennmcgahee on Tue May 06, 2008 at 03:09:39 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

That's correct.

However, from a practical standpoint, once the primary schedule finishes on 6/3, there's going to be a lot of pressure for the remaining superdelegates to announce who they're supporting (and for other superdelegates to re-confirm who they're supporting).  By mid-June you can expect to see all but perhaps a dozen or so superdelegates publically endorsing one candidate or the other.

If at that point one candidate has a signficant total delegate lead (say, 100 or more), it's going to be very difficult for the other candidate to continue wooing superdelegates without appearing like a sore loser.

Even if technically nothing's final until the convention, in all likelihood we'll have a de facto nominee by mid-June (if not sooner).


by Frood on Tue May 06, 2008 at 05:20:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

12 elderly nuns turned away from polls b/c they didn't have drivers licenses (they don't drive) and their passports weren't current.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/0 5/indiana_nuns_lacking_id_denied.php

I don't have any idea who they were voting for, but this is so very, very wrong.  


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 04:13:00 PM EST

Re: Indiana Votes (2.00 / 1)

This makes a perfect poster-case to explain why this is a bad law.


by Frood on Tue May 06, 2008 at 05:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Indiana Votes (none / 0)

6 pm poll closing times are ridiculous, given typical commutes these days. Sheesh.

Federal polling and voting standards!


by tomchaps on Tue May 06, 2008 at 05:47:29 PM EST


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