MyDD :: "That's My Patriotism"

"That's My Patriotism"

by Todd Beeton, Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:46:40 AM EST

I said yesterday that I feared Barack Obama was just sort of sitting on his hands when it came to hitting back against the unpatriotic bullshit meme being spread about him. I was wrong. Listen to how he closed his speech at the North Carolina Jefferson Jackson dinner Saturday night. In it he made the stirring case for what patriotism means to him and revealed a passion I haven't seen him display in a long time. After being hit off his stride, apparently having bought into the ubiquitous Obama inevitability campaign, it now looks like he is really fighting for this thing.

Below is the last 10 minutes of his speech. I recommend watching the whole thing but the relevant part begins at the 5 minute mark. (The first three parts of his speech as well as Hillary Clinton's can be found HERE.)

For me it brings to mind his arguably game-changing Iowa J-J speech from last November. One wonders if this one be similarly consequential.

Tags: 2008 presidential election, democratic nomination, barack obama (all tags)

Permalink :: 89 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

Damn right! He pegged it squarely on the seams and that ball is still flying across Indiana.

What an orator.

by realcountrymusic on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:58:49 AM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 4)

Todd,

This post, and others like it, is the reason I read yours posts and have stopped reading Jerome's. Any news I might pick up from a Jerome post is obscured by the bias. I appreciate that you make an effort to give Obama somewhat a fair hearing. It's obvious you are a Clinton supporter, but you are not vitriolic in your hatred of Obama. We will need people like you if/when Obama wins the nomination. It will be a much harder transition from Jerome and some other posters on this site.

by jadegirl on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:24:48 AM EST

Agreed (2.00 / 1)

We need more writers like this, who understand that supporting one candidate doesn't have to mean disconnecting yourself from reality when it doesn't go your way.

Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts

by jaiwithani on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:21:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

People like me are not vitriolic (2.00 / 1)

Its just that Obama's healthcare plan would not help me - its sort of structured to only help the companies - and the people who would not need it, and the wording is very sneaky. Its deceptive. I feel that with Bush's popularity being what it isn't, and people NEEDING a REAL universal healthcare plan, we need action fast, and we need REAL MOTION towards getting a healthcare plan THAT HELPS PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENTLY DYING BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD CARE.

Barack Obama saves money on healthcare 'insurance' BY SHIFTING COSTS TO PEOPLE. What good is a crappy cheap insurance policy to you that DOESN'T COVER YOUR HEALTH EXPENSES ADEQUATELY? It may make the statistics better, and help companies attract people, BUT WHEN THEY GET SICK IT FAILS THEM.

Read Hillary Clinton's decription of her Premium Cap and then contrast it with Obama's 'less is more' package.. (which he has stated he would not even begin to discuss till 2012, FOUR YEARS from now)

Clinton Details Premium Cap in Health Plan
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/us/pol itics/28clinton.html

Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.

by architek on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:21:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ALRIGHT WE GET IT OBAMA's HEALTH PLAN SUCKS (2.00 / 1)

nope people like you just can't stay on topic
every semi poisitive thread on obama you can't
trash him . this thread is not about his healthcare .

John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"

by wellinformed on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:33:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let me make something clear (2.00 / 1)

Hillary's health plan is a non-starter. You do not understand that she failed at this once and it would happen again. Mandates DO NOT get through Congress. I don't care how much she says she will get mandates it just won't happen.

by sweet potato pie on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:33:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me make something clear (none / 0)

its no use trying to convince ol archy

he/she eats live sh*ts breath HRC health care plan apparently its the greatest invention since the wheel.

archy can't help you on any other issues

John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"

by wellinformed on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:16:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: People like me are not vitriolic (2.00 / 1)

Cheaper costing healthcare doesn't help you? It ONLY doesn't help if you DON'T BUY A PLAN!!! At that point, YOU are not helping you.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:20:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: People like me are not vitriolic (2.00 / 1)

Hillary's healthcare plan isn't "universal". I'll bet you all my possessions that it won't get there. It would cover more people, I won't argue that but like someone else mentioned, it's a non-starter and it's politically the wrong approach (as it can hurt many of the very people that the plan is trying to help).

Talk to me about healthcare when a candidate, any candidate mandates the government to provide healthcare to its people. Until then, I'll sadly take the slow approach to building up to universal healthcare.

by alex100 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:27:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How about something like this (none / 0)

Expand and improve Medicare/Medicaid to cover everyone, raising taxes sufficiently to pay for it of course. Anyone who wants private insurance can opt out and instead get a voucher for a private policy. People are also free to get supplimental policies if they choose. Nobody is denied coverage, and freedom of choice is maintained.

I know the 'raise taxes' part scares some people, but really, we already cover a huge slice of the US population via taxpayer money, so it doesn't go up as much as most people fear. Considering it is offset by elimination/reduction of private or employee based premiums, we end up ahead overall. Also, if it is implemented as a progressive tax, most people would be ahead even if they just take the voucher.

Of course this could be tough to get past the insurance lobby, but it can be phased in with gradual expansion of existing programs, so it is an easier sell than ripping the bandaid off with a complete move to a single payer system. It also maintains that all important choice and competition that some like to crow about, it just makes sure the largest player is not in it with a profit motive. This compitition might in fact force improvement in the quality of private insurance.

Of course there is a lot of detail to work out in this... the nature and size of the tax increase, the size of the voucher, timeframe of implementation... but I think this is a framework that gives something to every side and has a chance of making it through congress. Most importantly, it gives my girlfriend who currently wont be accepted by any private company a chance at getting medical care.

by protothad on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:05:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

Great speech. When he is on, he is really on. The flipside is that when he's off, he's really off.

This type of cyclic temperment gives me pause. It's well at home in the realm of the arts or theatre. But for the executive office, the prudent adult in me prefers the "boring" consistency an even temperment brings to the task.

2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.

by BPK80 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:32:03 AM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

Me too. Let's bring back Kerry.

by zadura on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:33:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

talk about someone who was ever on. human xanax.

by hctb on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:26:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Boo. (2.00 / 3)

Kerry is witty, briliant and authoritative, especially in interviews and debates. This "stiff and boring" meme is a media construct, just like Gore's exaggerations. Gore killed on SNL too. Maybe it's their voices; Kerry sounds aloof and Senatorial, Gore can sound preachy.

I don't see the point in bashing our former nominees. They would have all made great presidents.

by corph on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:09:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Boo. (none / 0)

I agree. Kerry got a bad rap.

The msn took off with "elitism" and drowned out the substance of his prose.

by chrispy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:06:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Stiff and boring (none / 0)

was not a media construct. I liked Kerry for a lot of reasons. He is a brilliant Senator and had all of the right policy for a presidential candidate. He couldn't sell it though and a President has to be able to sell their ideas.

I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.

by JDF on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:29:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, unlike the Gore stories (none / 0)

it can't be proved one way or the other. The only times I found Kerry dull were when he was giving a speech I had already heard. He couldn't have been that stiff and boring if he won the primaries. Also note that he got more votes and ever a larger share of the general election vote than Mr. Charisma in '92 or '96.

by corph on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:06:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 2)

I can understand after George w why you would want someone "boring" but we can have someone who is Great. Why settle for less?

by Politicalslave on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:39:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (1.00 / 1)

Well, as I said above, it's because these great speeches are the high points in a cyclical temperment.

His dual polarity is extreme. Highly articulate and luminous one day but strangely withdrawn and tentative the next.

It's the classic cyclothymic temperment, common to artists, writers, musicians, poets, actors, etc. "Greatness" like Barack Obama often has a strong distaste for the ordinary, formality, and trudging through little details. It bores easily.

2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.

by BPK80 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:56:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 4)

I would really appreciate it if people wouldn't try to terms which have a very specific clinical meaning to address political figures. I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong about this; I'm just saying that it's sloppy to do it this way, and I find a lot of my students come into my classes with a lot of bad ideas about what psychology is because they hear people throw about terms like "bipolar," "schizophrenic," etc. without understanding them.

Not a personal attack or even a strong disagreement with your assessment; just a request from an overworked teacher.

I'm only a click away

by juliewolf on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:46:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

Julie, if you read my post carefully, you will see that I worded it very carefully to not include the words "bipolar" or the outmoded "manic depressive." Nothing in my post should be construed as a clinical diagnosis. I use the term "cyclothymic," a poorly defined and almost non-clinical term itself, in its common lay usage.

If you read it again, you may have a eureka moment and find it very carefully skirts using terms endemic to the profession to avoid the very legitimite concern you raised! ;-)

2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.

by BPK80 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:47:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

i don't think he's ever "off". I've seen him tired before but never "off". Unless of course you're talking about the last debate which was a hit piece on him (he did badly). Then again Hillary did badly on the debate that was somewhat of a hit piece on her (texas).

or perhaps you're referring to how great of an orator he can be followed by his disappearance from the media? That was the time where they pulled the plug on his public engagements to focus on attacking his supposed elitist ways and his relationship with Wright and for his lack of lapel pin... I suppose that's being "off" compared to seeing him engage the public in these amazing speeches.

by alex100 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:34:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

Hold on a moment -- so you're saying Hillary Clinton has been consistent?

She's changed messages and themes more often than I change my socks.

As for even temperament, who was it who won a primary by shedding a tear for herself?

by realcountrymusic on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:38:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

Not "consistent," but "consistently grating and dull." And that's a good thing.

"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!

by username3 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:39:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 2)

I realize you are correct Senator Obama needed to show us something he certainly did that. Thank you
for taking the time to post this. Inspired

by Politicalslave on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:36:34 AM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

Obama is personally a VERY likable guy.

Watching the speech it made me realize that he isn't a great speaker in the way MLK was or JFK or RFK or Churchill etc.

But Obama is more chrasmatic than all of them.

For a politician that is a very impressive gift.

But its only a gift during the campaign. In office the speechmaking of talking about ideals in a powerful way as MLK, RFK etc did is more important.

Being handsome really doesn't get it done in the white house or Bush would be a decent president as he is not a bad looking man, an evil looking man yes but not an ugly looking man.

by DTaylor on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:40:02 AM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

George Bush looks like a clown. And he's very evil.

Handsomeness is always a plus for some people, but some of our greatest Presidents were handsome in different ways. President Lincoln comes to mind. Many would consider him unelectable today but I'd have to see it. Same with President FDR, whose struggle with disease may have made him unelectable.

President Lincoln was great in that after winning, he took all those who ran hard against him and disagreed with him and gave them cabinet positions. Largely considered the most effective cabinet in United States history.

And I'd love to see that again.

But I always have a chuckle when people try to lump a person with other people. There's a reason those people are remembered and it's not because they're easily lumped together. RFK and MLK had as much in common when it came to oratory performance as you and I do in preference of candidate.

JFK had a few good speeches as well and was charismatic but I'd venture to say he did some very terrible things as President and that giving us a good soundbyte excuses him from that. If he hadn't been assassinated, I think the Civil Rights Act and a lot of other bills would've been difficult to get through congress and so I think it's politically safe now-a-days to say he was a very great President and to sort of denigrate what President Johnson did (although I think he wasn't that great either).

But you'll rarely hear Senator Obama harken back to President Kennedy, except perhaps to mention Profiles in Courage, a good book that the author should've heeded a lot better.

You'll most often hear Senator Obama talk about President Lincoln when it comes to Presidencies he wants to emulate.

And I see that atmosphere - nothing that serious but the atmosphere that pervaded thought back then. That half the country is different from the other half. That those people are monsters and we can't let them take an inch.

And I'm not suggesting calling up the armies and putting them down or anything :P. But I do believe we need someone who doesn't use wedge-issues to drive us apart. And I've seen Senator Obama be honest, thoughtful and respectful of all the parties involved.

The only persons he's attacked forcefully are the President and the Republican nominee. You may think he attacks Senator Clinton but Senator Clinton hasn't been called half the things he's called those two.

He's praised past Republican presidents, appealed to Republicans and Independents (he after all, has more Republican and Independent support) and while this is a Democratic Primary - I think it's the Democrats who have to put forward a candidate who will be Lincolnesque and Rooseveltesque. Who will help bridge that divide.

He has the charisma. He has the intellect. He has the power to do that. Largely because we've given him it. Millions have voted and have put him into the front-runner status, hundreds of thousands have donated precious few of their dollars to a candidate, making it a candidate of the people not a candidate of the special interests and I strongly believe Senator Obama's cabinet will be a surprising combination of people who will disagree with him on a constant basis.

He already has hundreds of economists and foreign policy advisers helping him. I don't think he'll take the path of President Bush in hiring Yes-Men and Liberty student graduates.

But that's my take. The enthusiasm for his candidacy has been greater than any of the others, although Senator Clinton has done pretty decent as of late, adopting the fighter/underdog stance.

We'll see.

Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"

by Lord Hadrian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:03:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

and that giving a soundbyte doesn't excuse him from that*.

Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"

by Lord Hadrian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:04:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 4)

I'm personally tired of this absurd argument that Obama's charisma and oratory skills would somehow preclude him from being an effective president. That's like saying Clinton's mastery of the soundbite proves that she lacks the ability to think in broader terms. Honestly, I'm all for intelligent criticism and discussion of the candidates, but this kind of crap should offend everyone.

by noop on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:27:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

I think it would make him a BETTER President, if persuading the public and shifting opinion is anything (which it is, since Congress wants to be reelected).

Donate to Obama, Today!

by freedom78 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:23:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

just by looking at Obama's past tells me he'll be quite effective in the oval office.

the key is to get advisors who you really trust to be surrogates for the people and follow through on those plans with the details in mind.

by alex100 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:46:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

somebody's got a crush on bush??

oh boy I heard it all now

John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"

by wellinformed on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:34:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Real Patriotism (2.00 / 2)

That's what real patriotism sounds like.

If you're still not sure what makes Barack tick, read "Dreams of my father".

by hebi on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:16:35 AM EST

Re: Real Patriotism (none / 0)

Come on, it's "Dreams FROM My Father," not "Dreams OF My Father." Please get it together.

by joed on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:10:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Real Patriotism (none / 0)

My excuse is that I've read it as "Min far hade en dröm", but you're absolutely righyt that "Dreams from my father" is the correct original title.
But with the i's dotted, can we agree upon the fact that it's a great book that gives great insight in what motivates Barack ???

by hebi on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Real Patriotism (none / 0)

Yes, I can certainly agree that it is a very valuable book.

by joed on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

Consequential in terms of superdelegates, yes. In terms of winning on Tuesday not so sure.. (But more than open to hearing arguments/encouragement to see it differently)

by amsterdem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:08:39 AM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

Other than to aficionadoes mostly in his camp already this is going to pass largely un-noticed. No one disputes he's a great speaker. That's not the problem.

by ottovbvs on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:14:51 AM EST

I dispute it (1.50 / 2)

Of course, there were a lot of Republicans a few years ago who thought that everything that George Bush said was magic too. Remember how many times we used to count the number of "freedoms" in his speeches. Ahhhh, yes, those were the good old days. And what did we end up with? Five years of war and 4000 soldiers dead and tens of thousands more with life changing injuries.
BTW, how many times did Obama say "unity", "together" and "change"? Someone should start keeping track.

by goldberry on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:43:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You would dispute (2.00 / 2)

that the sun rises in the East if Hillary Clinton told you otherwise.

Ironic that you compare this to the run-up to a war that your craven and short-sighted candidate supported.

How many times has Clinton said "fight" when all she's ever fought for his herself?

by JJE on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:50:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I dispute it (none / 0)

are you saying bush gives great speeches ???

I never heard republicans say that ? ummmmm

I thought he just got elected because our country wanted to have a beer with him

never knew he had great speeches though

can you name one

is he the "tear down the wall" guy I always hear repubs talk about ?

John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"

by wellinformed on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:20:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A speech again? (1.33 / 3)

It's like he has only one move.

by TaiChiMaster on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:21:51 AM EST

Yeah... (2.00 / 7)

...I guess he should try interpretive dancing next time.

by Aris Katsaris on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:34:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A speech again? (2.00 / 1)

Your right... he should selfishly try to destroy the party with Rovian tactics in a mad grab for power. THAT'S MUCH BETTER.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:25:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A speech again? (none / 0)

for some reason, I don't accept your "Analysis" as objective.

"Hillary Clinton will FORCE you to buy Health Insurance" remember that? in which play book does it come from?

by TaiChiMaster on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:59:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 4)

the unpatriotic bullshit meme being spread about him

Uh, Todd have you taken a look at your site recently? The Clinton supporters here seriously believe Obama is unpatriotic, and they have a disturbing level of vitriol reserved for his wife too.

by Skaje on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:25:59 AM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

We don't think he's unpatriotic. i don't put flags on everything either. I don't have to proclaim my patriotism. In fact, this is one area where I think we have something in common.
Michelle isn't unpatriotic either. She's just incredibly snobby and clueless.
The people fretting over patriotism aren't Clintonistas. We don't give a flying f^*(. We just object to the persistent condescension, arrogance and insensitivity of both Obamas during this campaign. You'll never find any Clinton person on MY site going on about flag pins. It's a whole lot of nothing. But we do rake Michelle over the coals when she praises people who see the magnificence of the messiah Barry when she says that for the first time in her adult life, she's proud to be an American. Seems to me that she should vacation in places like Bangladesh or Pakistan and see how little girls there are sold into indentured servitude and get some perspective.

by goldberry on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:40:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Michelle snobby? (2.00 / 2)

Please explain how. I consider Hillary Clinton and Bill elitist and snobby. Michelle who just finished paying off her student loans and who grew up on the South Side of Chicago is hardly snobby. You just don't like her and I really believe that it is a color thing when people say that she is snobby.

by sweet potato pie on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:36:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michelle snobby? (none / 0)

This is the mistaken belief that most Obama supporters have. Michelle grew up on the soutside of chicago etc. That's right but her ATTITUDE is the problem. She comes off as having a chip on her shoulder like she's entitled to what she has. It's the attitude and the statements that both of them have made that allow Michelle and Obama to be tagged as elitists. Also, his own voting demographics also lead to this narrative.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:48:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michelle snobby? (2.00 / 0)

Yeah, Michelle is so snobby. Why can't she be nice and demure like that other first lady, wasshername, Hillary. She never was accused of elitism or looking down on reg'lar 'merkins.

I usually take Michelle-bashing by a Clinton supporter as automatic proof that they've left reason at the station.

The "Proud to be an American" line was stump hyperbole. A gaffe. To make a moral issue out of it is hilarious since it's ridiculous to believe that's even true. Hillary "baking cookies" Clinton knows that better than most. In fact, Hillary "sniper fire" Clinton knows better than that, too, since she had a decade+ of public camera time before Bill ran for President. Michelle Obama had, what, a couple months in 2004? She's a rookie and whenever ya'll harp on her gaffe, you sound like O'Reilly.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:47:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michelle snobby? (none / 0)

Hillary had problems, most notably that she wasn't "traditional". However, she never had the elitism tag like Michelle. Maybe she was smart enough to not whine about the price of ballet lessons publicly.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:18:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michelle snobby? (none / 0)

Well said.

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.

by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:42:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michelle snobby? (none / 0)

hahahahah you nailed it that is exactly what her personality is like LMAO her ATTITUDE does make me think she is elitist as well and she does think she is entitled too...wait you were not talking about HRC ??

John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"

by wellinformed on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:24:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michelle snobby? (none / 0)

Sorry but most people disagree with you.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michelle snobby? (none / 0)

Define "most". You mean less than half?

Hillary has a rather significant "favorability" problem.

What exaxtly is it that people don't like? Wait, I remember: 58% of Americans feel she's dishonest and not trustworthy.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/DemocraticDebat e/story?id=4668032&page=1

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.

by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:50:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michelle snobby? (none / 0)

Obama has the same problems. 61% of americans don't think that Obama is patriotic enough. Carter was seen as honest. How did that work out? I'd rather have a candidate who has Hillary's problems than one that is seen as unamerican by the electorate.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michelle snobby? (none / 0)

Technically, that's not the same problem. Obama's negatives come on the heels of a full two-week MSM Wright pile on. HRC's favorability numbers are consistently negative (have been for years) and continue to rise.

Rise, Hillary, Rise (in the untrustworthy category)

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.

by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, because the Clintons and their minions are the Height of Openness and being "one of the guys" ... Just like "W" was...

Hmm, she can't apologize, she can't say she's wrong, she pretends to not be a rich elitist, despite being the QUEEN of the rich elitists, she uses right wing memes on foreign policy, she lies and comes up with IDIOTIC plans about Oil... Sniff...Sniff... Wow, well at least a good part of her smells like Bush.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:24:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

I watched that speech. I just missed Clinton's so I have no comparison to how she did. But as for him, it was dull, dull, dull. Not only that, but he dissed her record on education, then proceeded to dress up her policies in his own words.

The last ten minutes seemed like an attempt to muster something but once again, it just didn't rise to the level of stirring rhetoric that some of you think it did.

He's not all that. Some of us have just not seen the magic and the peer pressure tactics aplied to the rest of us to make us seem like we are too stupid to get it are losing their potency.

We can't see what you see in the guy and are puzzled beyond words as to why this is still a contest. It's like the run-up to the Iraq War all over again with the usual predictive disaster awaiting us. He's not transformative and certainly not ready and she's not even close to the evil creature she's made out to be.

Is it possible for the Obama supporters gain some insight into this before they chain the rest of us to them and draq us out in front of the speeding train?

by goldberry on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:33:33 AM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 2)

It's literally a matter of perspective. I find it nearly unbelievable that Clinton supporters can't see that she is little more than a politician who changes her tune to whatever direction the wind is blowing, and has a serious issue with the truth. I don't understand how HRC supporters can't see that 4-8 years of her presidency would look much like Bill's in terms of the trauma and lost opportunities. Her campaign, the money issues, the constantly squabbling aides, telegraphs this in spades. I can't understand why HRC supporters buy into her experience argument, when her one major public policy initiative (heathcare) went down in flames in a spectacular manner, and she has been a middle of the road senator at best. I can't understand how HRC supporters pile on Rezko and Wright, and ignore the yards long list of unsavory associations the Clintons have.

This isn't Clinton hate - I was a huge supporter of the Bill Clinton during his presidency.

Maybe I'm wrong, and you are right. Or maybe it's the other way around. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

by tysonpublic on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:12:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

my thoughts exactly. the clintonistas see things in their pre-determined contexts, that obama is a slick snake-oil salesman who rallies up crowds of white intellectual suckers and blacks with his bs message of hope and change, while hillary is the one who can get things done.

and we see it almost completely opposite: that clinton is a regurgitation of the same, and that her administration will be ineffective and even more polarizing, while obama has the ability to inspire and motivate.

me, i guess i'm a sucker for inspiration. but i'm just one of the white intellectual suckers.

by jbill on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:20:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is not last November (1.00 / 2)

We all know now that this guy can read a tele-prompter better than anyone else. The trust is gone. It isn't the same.

by ineedalife on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:43:14 AM EST

Re: This is not last November (none / 0)

And because Clinton can't read "inspiring" off a prompter, she must be a better candidate. Seriously, folks, is this an "argument"?

"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!

by username3 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:46:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is not last November (none / 0)

Irony

I hope you are not implying you have more trust for Hillary?

John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"

by wellinformed on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:26:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

This is all well and good, BUT who outside the blogosphere watches these JJ Dinner speeches? For instance, I see no mention of it in the headlines at Real Clear Politics.

Unless the media starts picking this up, which is questionable with the storyline of the primary taking up all the air in the room (especially in Indiana), I'm not sure if his speech here will be a "game changer" for anyone.

-----------
Blog: http://fitnessnerd.blogspot.com/

by FitnessNerd on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:46:01 AM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

The good thing, I guess, is that Obama FINALLY realizes he has a patriotism problem. The BAD thing is that, once again, he thinks that a speech is going to solve this problem. It's not. I guess he didn't learn anything from the Wright fiasco.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:54:53 AM EST

"A Patriotism Problem" (2.00 / 5)

"A Patriotism Problem?" Is that what we call it now when Fox news and its smear merchants go after Democrats?

I'm only a click away

by juliewolf on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:08:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "A Patriotism Problem" (none / 0)

It's a problem. Deny it if you wish.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:42:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "A Patriotism Problem" (2.00 / 1)

What is the nature of that "problem?" That he doesn't give us easy to digest soundbytes that suggest he is patriotic and leaves himself vulnerable to Republican talking points?

I'm only a click away

by juliewolf on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:05:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "A Patriotism Problem" (none / 0)

Gallup says that only 29% of americans believe that Obama is strongly patriotic. 22% believe that he is not patriotic while the ones inbetween think he's "somewhat patriotic." It's a problem. If you start out with only 29% believing you strongly want the best for the country then you've got a serious problem.

I think his patriotism problem stems from lots of things. First of all his background lends itself to that belief. Secondly, his and Michelle's statements reinforce that belief. Thirdly, his associations reinforce that belief. It's going to be nearly impossible for him to undo.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:23:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "A Patriotism Problem" (none / 0)

What percentage find Hillary patriotic? I suppose it doesn't much matter as 58% think she's just lying about everything anyway.

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.

by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "A Patriotism Problem" (none / 0)

The majority. I guess the voters think that Obama's telling the truth when he says that he can't disown Wright. The majority also believe that Obama shares some of Wright's values. Is that a good thing?

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:12:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "A Patriotism Problem" (none / 0)

Uhh, some of Wrights values are good things, no?

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.

by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:16:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "A Patriotism Problem" (none / 0)

So the problem isn't a "patriotism" problem. It's a "what people think" problem. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm only a click away

by juliewolf on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:47:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

your right he probably ought to go Rambo somewhere to solve it. What are you suppose to do other than give a speech?

Matthew25Network.com

by cardboard 1 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:20:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 2)

I think the answer the commenter is looking for is "drop out and endorse Hillary Clinton".

Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts

by jaiwithani on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:27:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

We need YouTube footage of him killing Nazis with his bare hands. Nothing less will suffice. ;)

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.

by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:56:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

If a speech is the best that he can do then he's in pretty bad shape. This has been a simmering problem for quite a while and he has chosen to ignore it. Part of the problem is that he hasn't defined himself there allowing himself to be defined by others. I understand that a biographical ad is problematic for him but a speech just isn't going to cut it.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:44:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 2)

Maybe be should "make up" his own "Tuzla Tale".....

I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!

by hootie4170 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:09:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

Is this the only thing you guys can do? Scream about Hillary when it's Obama's problem? I guess so.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (2.00 / 1)

...

What is he supposed to do? I keep hearing "A speech won't cut it" but what else can he do? Go on news channels and answer ridiculous questions?

Let's face it. You don't have a clue of what you want him to do about it. You paint him in a corner and attempt to make it appear you are being insightful in the process.

The same thing can be leveled against Hillary Clinton. "All she does is give speeches." Sure, if her speeches made headlines and were replayed as much. But her speeches aren't as good.

They both give press releases. They both have conference calls. They both give speeches. They both go on pundit shows and answer questions. They both answer questions to the press.

The difference is you ignore his entire campaign and pick at the fact that all you see are his speeches. Why is it that is the only thing you see? Because that is what sells, the media loves it.

I've read the press releases. He addresses a myriad of things and offers a lot of details. Rallies and speeches are a caricature of the Clinton Campaign in an attempt to undermine the enthusiasm his campaign generates. He does these things very well and it is pathetic that it only serves to become an attacking point for those that don't understand the enthusiasm.

So instead of just sitting there saying over and over that "speeches don't cut it" perhaps you can give something else he can do to dispel the "problems" he has? What isn't he doing that you think would help him?

As far as I can tell you being a parrot to a line you heard given to you and you can't discern reality from the talking points.

by Zotnix on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:38:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

Actually having a press conference isn't a bad idea. And Obama has been shunning the press for quite a while I understand.

It's not a line given to me. It's what is backed up by polls. When Michelle makes comments like "for the first time in my adult life I'm proud of my country" it just reinforces the narrative that he isn't patriotic. A speech where you say you can't disown your pastor who has anti american sermons doesn't help either. He didn't prepare himself and didn't understand about national elections is the core of the problem.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:28:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

"Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran..."

"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!

by username3 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:50:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

"For me it brings to mind his arguably game-changing Iowa J-J speech from last November. One wonders if this one be similarly consequential."

No.

by dark1p on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:55:11 AM EST

Thanks Todd (2.00 / 1)

I agree with many posters here that you seem to be able to balance your coverage and analysis of Obama in a way that Jerome can't. I very much appreciated seeing this speach and truly hope that it has a similar effect as the Iowa JJ speech.

by wasder on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:47:22 AM EST

Verbosity knows no bounds. (none / 0)

apparently having bought into the ubiquitous Obama inevitability campaign

Just a long winded and big worded way of saying "arithematic."

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:02:22 AM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

Once again, he demonstrates a perfect instinct to appeal to people who already agree with him.

Unfortunately, most people think patriotism is patriotism, that they know it when they see it, and they'll be the judge of it, not some politician. They are instantly suspicious of anyone defining patriotism for them.

George McGovern, meet your twin.

by ColoradoGuy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:53:27 PM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

This was a good speech. He acted like he wanted to win and spoke with more clarity as to why he should win. Obama has seemed to me as if he has been going through a mid-life crisis the past couple of weeks, but he looked fresh, energized, impassioned and ready to take on the matrix of DC politics.

He could stage a rally to hold off a Clinton upset in North Carolina. If he keeps talking like this, he should be well-positioned in Oregon.

by khyber900 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:18:55 PM EST

Re: "That's My Patriotism" (none / 0)

I'm an Independent who lives in a heavily Democratic area and since the Dem primary here is usually the de facto election locally, I vote inthe Democratic primary.
I've been bombarded by both Hillary and Obama stuff and I must say that Obama's phrasing on the topic mentioned here is quite impressive.
By invoking the country's name, he's striking the right chord, flag pin or no flag pin.

by spirowasright on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:18:03 PM EST

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