Open Thread

Talk amongst yourselves...

Update [2008-5-5 21:8:0 by Jonathan Singer]: "League of Nations"? Really? Wow.

McCain Today: “We Need a League of Nations.” “When discussing what must be done about Iran and Iranian influence in the region, McCain said, "We need a League of Nations. We need a group of pe-- of nations who, we can work together and impose meaningful sanctions and modify Iranian behavior." [CNN Live Feed, Town Hall (Charlotte, NC), 5/5/08]

Just because someone came up witgh an idea nearly a hundred years ago, implemented it more than eighty years ago, only to see the isea turn out to be a bust doesn't mean we shouldn't embrace it now...



Display:


Game Changer (1.75 / 4)

So, if Hillary pulls off a win in IN and keeps Obama's lead to single digits in NC, is that a game changer?

If Obama is only winning the AA and young vote, and hillary clearly wins the white vote and middle class vote, do supers start to feel that Obama can't carry the groups we need to carry to win in the fall?

if they ignore all of the above and still hand the nomination to Obama, are we doing a repeat of Mondale and McGovern elections?


by Scope441 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:37:23 PM EST

Re: Game Changer (2.00 / 3)

Considering that Bill Clinton never won the white vote, supers need to be asking themselves how important the black vote is to their candidate.  African Americans will not vote for Hillary if they feel the nomination was stolen from them.  Period.  And the black vote is not only necessary, but vital, for a Democratic presidential victory.  I know many people here believe otherwise, but if you lived in an urban area or discussed the situation with African Americans, you will realize that opinion is dead wrong...  African American voters are not stupid, and they will not be played with.  Republicans have tried and tried again to con black voters and they always fail.  Do not assume that a candidate with a (D) next to her name will do any better.

Indiana will be in the bag for Hillary, not a "pull off"...  that's just spin.  She's been in the lead there for months, and has a very helpful endorsement. Rush Limbaugh has told his minions to go out and aggressively vote for Hillary, since she is the one they really want to face in the fall.  Yes, it's a felony for them to do that, but they don't care...  no one in the media seems to notice the "operation chaos" effect.


by LordMike on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (none / 0)

In the most recent Pew poll, 75% of AAs say they would vote for Hillary over McCain, 15% say McCain over Hillary, 10% are undecided.  (Note: This is against 90% of AAs saying they would vote for Obama over McCain)

This is at the height of the primary campaign season, when passions are highest.

Debate all you want how much of a problem that 15% against and 10% undecided constitute, but just stop with the blanket statements like "African Americans won't vote for Hillary" because they just aren't true.


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:09:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (none / 0)

I don't know... I think that if Clinton somehow wrests this nomination from Obama, those numbers will change pretty sharply, and it won't be good for Clinton. I don't think many black voters will vote for McCain, but I bet a lot of them will sit this election out, and that'll be awful news for Clinton.


ÞÞÞ
by Mumphrey on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:41:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (none / 0)

You obviously don't live amongst African Americans... Trust me... Around her, she'll get ZERO votes...  She needs to do some major reconciliation.


by LordMike on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:46:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (none / 0)

Well, right now I;m actually in Latin America.  So I guess you're right on that point.

But I trust a random sample of the national electorate from Pew more than your personal reflections about people you know.  Call me crazy...


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:37:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

it does not count if I don't win (none / 0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9qd-P2bI iY&eurl=

Hillary's Rules - Countdown


by dearreader on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:10:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (none / 0)

IMHO:

- If she wins IN and NC I think it's more than  likely that she will be the nominee.

  • If she wins IN by double digits in IN and holds Obama to single digits in NC then I think her chances of winning the nomination increase to about 40%.
  • If she wins IN by single digits and/or if Obama wins NC by double digits then I think we are likely to continue along the same path with a 25% chance Clinton is the nominee.  

I think Clinton winning IN with a low double digit margin and NC in the high single digits is the most likely scenario.


by kristoph on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:45:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do not understand this logic (2.00 / 1)

Obama won 30 states, Hillary won 15.

But these two states are the deciding ones? Why even have people vote in the other ones.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I do not understand this logic (none / 0)

The contest continues because Obama has not been able to 'close the deal'. If he can't 'close the deal' where he has an unassailable demographic advantage he is not going to win in November.

It's a simple as that.


by kristoph on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I do not understand this logic (2.00 / 1)

And so, because apparently Obama hasn't "closed the deal" to the satisfaction of Clinton supporters, we should instead go with someone who is FURTHER from closing the deal.

Truly these discussions make my head spin.


by Frood on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:50:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Since when has (none / 0)

Clinton "closed the deal"?
I really don't get this argument. I really don't.
Obama has been ahead for pretty much the whole primary season. He hasn't been able to knock Clinton out because she came in with a whole lot of institutional Democratic Party backing. And also, she's the wife of the former president. She's not a typical presidential candidate, in that she's more like an incumbent in many ways than she is like somebody running for an open seat.
So Obama has led her pretty much from the outset, but because of the built in strengths she came into the race with, he hasn't altogether knocked her out. And so he can't "close the deal".
But what does it saya bout her that having come into this with all the advantages, she not only couldn't "close the deal", but that she's been barely hanging on for 2 or 3 months now?
ÞÞÞ
by Mumphrey on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (2.00 / 2)

Consider me skeptical that the superdelegates will throw away the guy with 1.5 million contributors and the most money raised of all time. Obama is a gravy train for Democratic candidates and the smart politicians know it.


by wengler on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (2.00 / 3)

But we can get the oil companies to pay for the election by taxing them!  We no longer need small dollar donors or voter registration drives or anything!


It's just the beat of time, the beat that must go on
If you've been trying for years, we already heard your song
by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:51:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (none / 0)

I agree that Obamas ground game and donor base are probably weighing heavily on the minds of the SDs.  The Wright contraversy seems to have caused only minor blip in the polls, so I don't expect that is enough to counter those positive factors.  The remaining SDs are playing it safe and just waiting to make sure nothing major happens to change the dynamic before the end of the primaries... then I expect the downticket advantages Obama offers will give him a majority of the hold-outs.


by protothad on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:04:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (2.00 / 1)

Uprated, not cuz I agree but because it certainly does not deserve a TR.


It's just the beat of time, the beat that must go on
If you've been trying for years, we already heard your song
by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:52:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (none / 0)

Well it is kind of a troll considering this was a post about McCain.  I am trying to find a comment that is actually relevant =/

I guess given the opportunity to attack McCain or turns the guns on ourselves we go all democratic party on our own asses!


I CAN HAZ BAHROCK DONASCHON?
by kasjogren on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:00:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (2.00 / 1)

They don't hand it to him. He's winning it, by winning the pledged delegates.


by hebi on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (none / 0)

And she'll overtake him by winning the superdelegates, ... "electability" will be the mantra.

The front runner needs to close out the race. Otherwise we need a new front-runner, her name is Hillary.


by wasanyonehurt on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Electability?? (2.00 / 1)

Electability...Huh?  You mean like having the entire Democratic Machine on your side, starting with a 100+ Superdelegate lead, having the Clinton name recognition as one of the best POTUS in our history, your advisors telling the country it will be finished by Super Tuesday, and you are losing to a 46 year old African American....you mean that kind of "electability"?


I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!
by hootie4170 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:15:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Electability?? (2.00 / 1)

Funny.  I don't think Electability means what they think it means.  Oh, and it isn't even a word.  My elitist spell-checker told me so.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:17:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (2.00 / 1)

Only if they hand it to her, but since super tuesday your clock is runnign backwards.


by hebi on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no she was already one (2.00 / 1)

now is his turn.

In case your do not like that argument, let look at who is winning.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:35:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (2.00 / 2)

"So, if Hillary pulls off a win in IN and keeps Obama's lead to single digits in NC, is that a game changer?"

Only if you disregard Obama's insurmountable lead.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:18:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Game Changer (2.00 / 2)

>> Only if you disregard Obama's insurmountable lead.

That's pretty much assumed on this site.


by Frood on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gas Tax distortions (none / 0)

Distortion #1: Obama conflating Hillary's gas tax suspension proposal with John McCain's proposal.  Hillary pays for it with a windfall profits tax while McCain doesn't pay for his idea at all.

Distortion #2: Hillary claiming that Obama wants to do noothing about gas prices; his idea is a second Congressional stimulus package that will cover other things than gas.

Just trying to be fair and balanced.  While I agree with him on policy grounds, I think Hill played Obama big time politically.  His argument should have been more focused on the idea that oil companies would just raise prices to make up for the gas tax being suspended instead of this thirty cents a day stuff; I would never have ever uttered anything about "just twenty-eight dollars on average."


by Blazers Edge on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:40:36 PM EST

Re: Gas Tax distortions (none / 0)

#1: She doesn't "pay for it in a windfall profits tax" until she submits a bill and gets it passed. She hasn't even started the process, and the odds of it happening are slim-to-none. Therefore, there's little practical difference between her and McCain on this point.
by ChrisKaty on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:19:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Distortion #1 (none / 0)

You forgot to mention that Hillary will pay for it with the same windfall profits tax she already promised to use for biofuels and alternative energy funding.

Good thing she didn't use that double spending the same money in her campaign or she would find herself broke....oh wait, she did that.


Republicans = Borrow and Squander
by GFORD on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:33:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Are we really going to cede the 27 EV in Florida to the Republicans and give it to McCain without a fight or help the down ticket democrats? Seems there is some discussion that the national DNC doesn't intend to participate in Florida in the general election.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/0 5/politics/politico/main4069713.shtml?so urce=RSSattr=Politics_4069713  


by Justwords on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:44:02 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Well according to realclearpolitics.com, Hillary would do well there, but Obama would get smashed to smitherines.  Since the DNC has already decided Obama has the nomination, or at least Dean and company has, then it follows there is no point in spending money in Florida. We will just pretend it's not there or important, just like we are in the primary.  Maybe if we stick our heads in the ground, it will go away.


by Scotch on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:51:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

It's funny you say Dean has decided to hand the nomination to Obama.

I hear the Obama camp is pretty pissed at Dean for stacking the Rules and Bylaws committee with Clinton loyalists.

So for a guy who has decided in favor of Obama he is sure doing Clinton a big favor.


by kristoph on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

>> Since the DNC has already decided Obama has the
>> nomination, or at least Dean and company has

I'm pretty sure all those people we've been talking about for the last several months had something to do with Obama winning the nomination.  What were those folks called?  Oh yeah.  Voters.


by Frood on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:55:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I must be in a time warp or something. When did Obama get the 2025 delegates, or the 2208 delegates (if MI and FL were included) to win the nomination?


by Justwords on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:02:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

He hasn't.

Read more than one post back in the thread, and try to understand where the conversation started and where it's coming from before adding your voice to it.


by Frood on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I was the second post on this thread- (note time etc) so this particular conversation started with me...you might note that before you look clueless again.


by Justwords on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

>> I was the second post on this thread- (note time
>> etc) so this particular conversation started with
>> me...you might note that before you look clueless
>> again.

I'm glad you've established you were flapping your jaws before I was.  If I'd been responding to you with my previous post, that might have been relevant.


by Frood on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

No you responded to Scotch who was clearly responding to me. Not that you can't comment to someone who is commenting to me but to tell me I should look a couple upthread (which was me) before I added my voice was incorrect and uncalled for, not to mention out of line. I'll take it you didn't mean to be rude and just misspoke before you knew the facts.


by Justwords on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:09:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

African Americans not Monolithic (none / 0)

Tomorrow, NC has the opportunity to put to rest the idea that AA's vote in a monolithic bloc in southern states in particular.

Spurred by Hillary's gas tax holiday proposal and to a far lesser extent, Rev. Wright's attack on the black church, we won't see a 92-93% landslide by AA.  

To the contrary AA's preferring Hillary's position may account for 15-19% defections from Obama.
 


by wasanyonehurt on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:46:04 PM EST

Re: African Americans not Monolithic (2.00 / 1)

I have seen nothing concrete to support that. Obama has actually increased his share of the black vote as the primary season goes along. You could predict that the Wright denunciation drives down turnout, but I don't see how it is going to drive up Hillary's numbers.


by wengler on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:53:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: African Americans not Monolithic (none / 0)

It's a cornucopia of gas tax, black church, healthcare, support for veterans etc.. that will drive the diminished monolith and gain her votes.

And, not to worry, you'll see something concrete tomorrow when returns come in.


by wasanyonehurt on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have to admire your enthusiasm (none / 0)

I think Hillary will make it closer than was originally anticipated (she has been improving her ground operation in recent contests), but she still has an upward slog in NC.  I expect she will win IN and lose NC.  The big question is whether she gains or loses on the delegate count and what impact that will have on the perceptions of the SDs.


by protothad on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:13:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: African Americans not Monolithic (2.00 / 1)

White women, especially those of a certain age, also have a chance to prove they don't vote in a bloc.  


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: African Americans not Monolithic (none / 0)

No contests where women of any age have voted 90% for Hillary, so . . .

. . . the monolithic bloc of AAs for Obama is much more "blocky" than Hillary's woman bloc.


by wasanyonehurt on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:59:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: African Americans not Monolithic (2.00 / 2)

That's not really a surprise though is it?  In places that favor Clinton, it is perfectly acceptable for 60% of the electorate to vote overwhelmingly for the white lady.  But when AA's are represented in a greater than the national average in a particular state, they get a lecture about not picking the black guy.

I get it.  Old white ladies vote on issues, AA's vote on race.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:08:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: African Americans not Monolithic (none / 0)

Who every said there was anything wrong with AA's voting 90+% for a candidate?  The voting pattern is fact and more power to Obama if he can keep it up in NC.  

I believe the AA bloc weakens in NC tomorrow and many more than expected go Hillary.


by wasanyonehurt on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:21:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: African Americans not Monolithic (2.00 / 1)

I misread your first post on the subject.  I understood it as you urging AA not support Obama as a bloc.  I didn't understand it was prediction.  


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:33:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: African Americans not Monolithic (none / 0)

I happen to agree with you. I have no empirical data to support my opinion.
I would point out that NC has a significant rural AA component, something we haven't seen for a while.  
by Judeling on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:25:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

MYDD hates my mac.  It keeps crashing on me.  So the question is:

A)  Is my computer such a sign of elitism that the site intentionally crashes, just to irk me?

B)  Is MYDD so elitist that a dual core laptop isn't sufficient to handle its Obama-hating awesomeness?

C)  Are MYDD programmers such salt-of-the-earth, working-class, really real dems that they can't find time to fix the bugs?

Love you!


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:47:27 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I have Mac OS X (Leopard), nothing crashes.

Those of us in the working class make sure are tools are well maintained. You elitists just bitch about them and blame someone else :-)


by kristoph on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Excuse me, but Leoparda are clearly more elitist than Tigers.  I downgraded in an attempt to make a connection with the Bubba vote.  God knows they've never steered us wrong!


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My Mac handles it fine... (none / 0)

... so it must just be you, you pinko-commie latte sipping prius driving hippie, you.  The MyDD server can sniff out your kind through a intermitent dial-up connection behind a tripple firewalled proxy server.  >;)

Actually, I've had my browser freeze up on occasion while trying to load some flash or something from one of the banner ads.  Perhaps your system is reacting to the same thing.  Try running with ad blocking turned on or Flash disabled for a bit and see if that helps.


by protothad on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:22:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Mac handles it fine... (none / 0)

Thanks.  I might try that, but considering flash is my business, I don't know if I can really turn it off.  Maybe I'll turn it off on Camino and use that for MYDD.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:04:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

There's not a thing to talk about.  Everything in the world is cool and calm.  I can't stay out of my garden.  That's all I got.


by Scotch on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:47:55 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Gardening Mojo!!


John McCain smells like mothballs.
by asherrem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:41:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

if  90% aa will not for hillary ,,,,right

then what about those 60% all white women who will not vote for obama,,,,,

what about 60-70% latinos who will rather vote mccain but obama

what about 65% of older voters who been always voting for obama

what about 65% of catholic vote

what about 80% of jews vote

what about 80% of jewish vote

yes obama is in lead ,,,,,but because of cacus syatem where older,workingfolks,,women with kids ,,don,t go to vote ,,,,,but youngs have no problem in it

so i look at it this way ,,,,

look at the math ,,,yes obama is the winner

but look at the general ,,,obama will be looser unless hillary will really really endorse him ,,,,,which is something we hill supporters will not follow (we r personally insulted by media,sexist society,someobamabots ,kennedy,kerry,and dean)


by hillaryfighter on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:52:35 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Yet it doesn't concern you that Hillary keeps throwing crap at Obama until he polls so low as to be unelectable? It doesn't bother you that she makes stuff up in order to smear him? It doesn't bother you that in her endless whoring for votes she joined a para-Christian doomsday cult?


by abraxas on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:12:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

see there u go

using harsh words again ,,,,,,,
 if u read other posts ,,,u will know

why people switched from obama to hillary


by hillaryfighter on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:23:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 3)

All I really get from your posts is that you're inordinately fond of commas.


by Frood on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:59:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

OMG that made me snarf my coffee


I CAN HAZ BAHROCK DONASCHON?
by kasjogren on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:13:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

sorry i wanna correct

what about 65% of older voters who been always voting for clinton
what about 65% of catholic vote for clinton

what about 80% of jews vote for clinton

what about 80% of jewish vote for clinton


by hillaryfighter on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:53:55 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

So Hillary supporters will go sit on their hands in the general and let McCain go kill more people in Iraq and Iran?

I have a feeling this electoral strategy isn't going to help Hillary get anymore votes in the future.


by wengler on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:57:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

i know what is ur point

but u might think i am just saying it to piss obama fans off

but no,,its true ,,,,,

hispanics and aa are always in odds,,,,,and all 46 states are the proof ,,even if obama had better message and better campaign ,they still went and voted hillary ,,,,

plus ,

i am one of those women who are educated who actually pays 300,000 in taxes but when we obama supporters ( i used to be ) start name calling ,,,it turns others off

why i switched to hillary from obama after donating $500 ,,,,when he said ;;;;i can get hill supporters but hill can,t get mine,,,,,that was clearly a bed thing to say

you and me might wanna understand it but most women who would have happily voted for obama took it as offense ,,,,,

beleive me ,,,,i know ,,obama is a good man ,,,a good father and a good heart person ,,,but i think he is said some silly stuff which will hurt him


by hillaryfighter on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I just watched a commentary by Towery of the Insideradvantage poll , he says the gas tax debate is really damaging Obama in NC and IND and that the media has failed to pick it up.

That was one of his explanation of the consolidation of the white vote especially in NC for Clinton.


When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line
by lori on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:59:14 PM EST

Hey Sweetie... (2.00 / 1)

...guess the NY Times Poll has it wrong...

NY Times Poll

Do you think some candidates have proposed eliminating the gas tax this summer MAINLY
because they think it is a sound proposal that will provide some relief to average
Americans or MAINLY to help themselves politically?

                           Help Americans   Help themselves    
5/1-3/08                       21                        70                              
    DPV*                         21                        72                            
    RPV*                         18                        73            

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pd f/politics/20080505_POLL.pdf      


I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!
by hootie4170 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:25:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey Sweetie... (none / 0)

If they'd have posed the question in the form, "Would you accept an elimination of the gas tax this summer for average American's economic relief or reject the gas tax hiatus as a political ploy."  They purposefully presented the question in that manner to skew the result, inmyopinion.


by wasanyonehurt on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:46:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Hillary will sweep tomorrow. Because of the 'gas tax' nonsense. Real Americans really are this retarded. They'll fall for this trick hook, line and sinker.

The fact that she's a member of a para-christian doomsday cult won't bother them in the slightest.


by abraxas on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:01:38 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I moving down to DC for through September to work with the Obama folks on outreach to religious groups (And, if he looses, the DNC instead).  I'd like to find housing on the cheap - so if anybody knows somebody with a spare room they could rent out...send out my email at BGrant@princeton.edu


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:05:31 PM EST

Just wanted to say hi. (2.00 / 1)

I replied to you on Kos re my friend's son in DC.  We're all Obama supporters so hopefully someone can put you up.


Republicans = Borrow and Squander
by GFORD on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just wanted to say hi. (2.00 / 1)

Thanks again...I'm working all the angles, and can use all the help I can get.


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"If you live long enough"... (none / 0)

I don't know how pointing out how long John McCain's lived is going to help him win the election...


by umcpgreg on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:52:32 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

Wow, here I was, happy to see a McCain comment thread with 33 commments...and going in and finding its all Obama-Hillary.

McCain is a fool, and there's no fool like an old fool.  Either of our candidates can beat him, and either would be an infinitely better President.  


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:59:08 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

No argument there.  I like sanity in my presidents, and by that simple measure either Democratic candidate is far better than McCain.


by Frood on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:03:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

A League of Nations?  Wow!  I knew McCain was old, but older than Woodrow Wilson?


by LordMike on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:09:20 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

So, no post on Clinton's "slide" in the Gallop daily tracking? It's 3 straight days of decline, and a +8 Obama swing. Or is it only newsworthy when it happens to Obama?

THAT is why all the Obama supporters thought it was hilarious -- that graph has been crisscrossing forever.

by ChrisKaty on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:13:10 PM EST

The sad thing (none / 0)

is that McCain thinks this is an original idea.


Republicans = Borrow and Squander
by GFORD on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:26:31 PM EST

The League of Nations... (none / 0)

Could have been a great success. It failed as much because the U.S. never joined it as for any other reason. Thanks to a small group of U.S. senators known as the "Irreconcilables" or "Bitter Enders", the U.S. Senate failed to ratify the treaty that would have let us join. I guess it shouldn't have been any big surprise that almost all of the Bitter Enders (16 out of 18) were Republicans. I think that if the U.S. had been on board from the beginning, as Woodrow Wilson had hoped, the League could have been effective. We'll never know of course, but it could have done something to stave off World War Two.


ÞÞÞ
by Mumphrey on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:32:39 PM EST

Re: The League of Nations... (none / 0)

Typical... the Republicans blew it for the rest of America... and the world!


by LordMike on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:47:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The League of Nations... (2.00 / 1)

Pretty much.
It's been downhill for that party ever since Booth  shot Lincoln.
Theodore Roosevelt was all right, but he was jingoistic and always clamoring for war with somebody...
Other than those 2 presidential bright spots (and to be fair, there have been a lot of good Republican congressmen, though I think the best of them were in Congress at the time of the Civil War and Reconstruction), it's been pretty awful. They really began sliding when they welcomed all the racist Dixiecrats without another thought.
ÞÞÞ
by Mumphrey on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Modify US behavior first... (none / 0)

From Laura Bush castigating a country for not taking care of its people to McCain criticizing Iran...come on, people in glass houses!


by clad on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:42:43 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.