Why are diarists here so obsessed with Kos?

Well, you're hardly an objective observer, are you?  Being a totally pro-Clinton writer.

Saying a front page writer is biased...you're writing that at DD?  my that's some sweet irony...

Did you not see him pushing the smear that Hillary had darkened Barack's photo and made his nose wider?

anymore is Markos, he has shown himself time after time to be thoughtless and incorrect as well as inflammatory with no proof on his FP posts...

Huh, I skimmed the article and hadn't noticed that. Thanks.

I do still agree with this, the main point, however:

"But I didn't do all this to show that Obama is "more electable" than Clinton. Rather, I wanted to show, conclusively, that Clinton is not more electable than Obama. At worst, it's a wash."

List of states Barack Obama puts into play, based on any poll we can find....  Hmmm....

Someone clue him in that he needs to add Massachusetts, New York, California, and New Jersey to that list.  

Keep in mind that Ohio and Florida are out of play.  Pennsylvania will be "formally" in play, but another blood red sacrifice in the Northeast.

Look on the bright side though, Obama wins Iowa.  And he wins Illinois by 50%!!!!!

Clinton supporters should go on strike and picket DKos.

Oh, right.

you should post this on Dk as positive feedback.

I'm in Obama guy and I actually agree with you on the first part of your diary.  Those states really aren't in play.

I'm trying not to get over confident here, but it really seems like either Hillary and Obama are going to beat McCain.  With the economy in the tank and the war still going on, it's going be a big election for the Dems.  Heck we picked up a House seat that's been in Republican hands for decades.

Honestly, I'll vote for either of them.

that's all HE'S GOT   lol

... and I more or less agree with you.  Kos has been selectively promoting the data he prefers;  some people around here do that too.

I ran my own numbers from the Electoral-Vote categories, weighting:
strong D = 1.0
weak D = 0.8
barely D = 0.6
tie = 0.5
barely R = 0.4
weak R = 0.2
strong R = 0

Roughly figuring those are the odds of bringing home the EV's from each category.  Obama scores 285.3, Clinton scores 275.1.  I consider this "both of them are electable" and "no evidence that Hillary is the stronger GE candidate."

p.s. here's the Electoral-Vote numbers from kos:

            Obama  Clinton
Strong Dem   135     109
Weak Dem      72     135
Barely Dem    57      47
Exactly Tied  11      11
Barely GOP    99      17
Weak GOP      67      88
Strong GOP    97     131

Kos and Obama loving Reagan since 1981!

Nice job cutting through that spin and being objective.

today.

Read over your comments little boys and girls.

Was the sandbox too crowded?

Grow up and act like you'd want to see a Democrat act.

Your comments are an embarrassment to your party and respective candidates, and moreover, embarrassing to yourself.

Kos has become the Obama spinmaster-in-chief.

Begging your pardon, but Kos addressed this:

"Now this list omits several potential competitive states because of a lack of multiple polls. But early (and sometimes outdated) polling suggest that Clinton puts additional pressure on Kentucky and South Carolina, while Obama puts pressure on Alaska, South Carolina, Nebraska, Montana, and North Dakota."

No, he actually couldn't be more blatantly dishonest.  In fact, the whole purpose of DailyKOS is inherently dishonest propaganda.

I'll probably never visit that site again.

So why do we have diaries devoted to his dishonesty. I think that is a given.

He's just a snake oil salesman, and the post you cite is just the latest batch of snake oil. Like Obama, for whom he is most likely employed, he's there to siphon dollars from gullible dolts who know little about politics but want to feel like they're part of a "movement."

he is in tank for obama

or may be he is afraid of being called racist too???

or   may be he is afraid of compains from obamabots if he speaks the truth

why do you read that stuff? i quit two months ago, and feel SO much more positive and energetic. it's toxic... agent orange, you think?

his point is to refute what the EV counter says and he does it by looking at a host of data.

you're fixating on two states that hardly do anything to change the overall findings but regardless of this, he places these states in his tabulated data correctly (strong dem, lean dem, likely dem...) which is at the core of his argument.

I think you're overreacting and being "blatantly dishonest" with how you're misrepresenting his data.

I miss liking and believing in DailyKos.  I miss thinking that Markos was insightful, sharp, and strong.

Now it's really become the moonbat cave to me.

I wrote Markos a tempered goodbye letter, that after 4 years of patronage I found the community no longer offered to me what it had in the past.

Maybe I'll be able to come back sometime.  It doesn't look too likely these days, though.

when the site goes the way of the HRC campaign where you going to go?  Or you could stay here while your two favorite diarists push brownie recipes.  

Posters on this website calling out another website for its supposed bias is just priceless.  Wasn't someone on the main page here recently touting the Gallup daily tracking poll as evidence of Clinton's superior electability?  No, no, couldn't be...we all know what a garbage metric that is.

"He argues Clinton's electability, but does so by, well lying."

I must've missed it in all the frothing.  What statement by Kos do you actually consider to be a lie?

That's why I left that place, and never look back.

he doesn't have a great record on calling races or picking the winning candidate.  

Kos has sold out to the almighty buck. Like Olbermann. Take them with a grain of salt. Preaching to the choir fills their pockets.

Kos is dangerous for the Democratic Party. The time when Kos and his ilk will be seen as a liability for the party is not far away.

too bad the trolls are out in such force.  This commentary on Kos is key and needs to be revisited time and again.

An excellent post, backed up by data and clear exposition.

Ignore the Kos-bot comments.  The guy completely flipped out when he couldn't decide for a long time who to support: Chris Dodd? John Edwards?  He came late to the Obama cult so he has felt forced to make up for it with passionate intensity--you know the kind of thing Yeats said the worst were full of?

It's short-sightedness, ego and impatience at work.  Kos has damaged his own "brand," irretrievably in my opinion.  And I really think that is a shame, but there are other blogs and will be even more.  The progressive grassroots can survive the distortions at Dailykos.

What worries me more is how we get over the bad feelings that have been generated by bloggers on both sides--more nasty from the Hillary-haters to be sure, but something that requires more restraint on both sides.  

I checked out this thread on the Orange Site and made a comment about Kos' cherrypicking to be disingenuous.

Immediately, I was told I had an "Oedipus Complex" for "obsessing over that Hillary lady."  Someone said to "go back to MyDD."  Ha!  Gladly.  I love it here.  

Is that a common insult over there?  The first time I heard the term "concern troll," I laughed because I thought the person calling me that had an original sense of humor.  Soon I found out it's just one of their talking points.  

I did laugh when I saw Hillary support = Oedipus complex.  I mean, what a ridiculous insult.  

He does not even know what to look for in a survey. He needs to take some statistic classes. One of the first thing that anyone familiar with polls and working for a campaign should look for are the weaknesses not the strengths of a given candidate. He is a rookie and he's even good at it.

Markos has a huge emotional investment in Obama because his own relevance is tied to that candidate now. And, he knows his followers well enough to know they're naive and willing believers who don't know much about the party system or political polling.

It's really a sign of his contempt for the Kossack Kommunity that he deliberately shades the true to make himself look important.

Markos isn't dangerous to the democratic party--he's irrelevant to the democratic party. And, he's not even a democrat--he's actually a libertarian. So, it's truly pathetic to see that he's become the "leader of the lost boys" at a site that fosters cult-like messianic authoritarianism.

Markos' followers are an embarrassment to true progressives--because they are nothing but chattering lemmings without any capacity for independent or critical thinking.

Look, if we're honest with ourselves (which isn't likely to happen) we pretty much know what's going to go down over the next few months.  First, Obama's likely to win the nomination (which he has NOT done yet).  Then McCain - as disastrous as he will be - is likely to be elected president.  

Then all of Left Blogistan will spend two or three months threatening to leap off a bridge (or move to Canada).

Why?  Because the Democratic primary system has been rigged over the years to deliver the candidate most likely to appeal to constituent active interest groups within the party ... and leave out candidates who have a fighting chance in the general.

I believe Clinton stands a slightly better chance than Obama, but experience tells me neither of them is likely to be living in the White House next year, barring an ENORMOUS screw up by McCain.

With Obama as the nominee, I predict Dukakis-like electoral figures.

I found a DKos T-shirt that I had purchased a couple of years ago.

It went out in the trash with the other garbage.

But as I always say at DailyKos about MyDD, no reason that dirty laundry can't stay over there.  It would be better I think to write a contradictory article that didn't call him out... that was more about the facts than who was presenting them.

Just IMO.

I find this attitude to be pretty amazing, and telling:

(From kos' update):

Update II: The Clinton trolls seem to have missed the fact that I'm using polling averages, not whatever favorable single poll they can cherry pick out of each race.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/5/1 22655/5037/101/509418

He's been doing this since Pennsylvania...cherry picking polls to try and convince people that Hillary's surge in the polls wasn't a real phenomenon...

Touting Obama in states like NC, CO etc, while ignoring his weaknesses in PA, OH, FL, MA etc...