2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! [UPDATED]

UPDATE on another new poll at bottom

Note:  this diary expounds on an update to a previous post, here.

Two new national polls, one of which is being misrepresented by some media sources, strongly show Clinton momentum.

A USA Today/Gallup poll released on 5/5/08 gives Clinton a 7 point lead over Obama, "the first time in 3 months she has been ahead."  USA Today writes:

Barack Obama's national standing has been significantly damaged by the controversy over his former pastor, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, raising questions for some voters about the Illinois senator's values, credibility and electability.

The USA Today/Gallup poll also demonstrates Clinton's strength on a number of variables:

Clinton Obama Advantage:

Is a strong and decisive leader 53 37: Clinton +16

Has the best chance of beating John McCain in November 48 43: Clinton +5

Shares your values 47 42: Clinton +5

Cares about the needs of people like you 47 43: Clinton +4

On only one variable, honesty and trustworthiness, does Obama lead Clinton (48 to 34).

A CBS/NYT poll released on 5/4/08 is being publicized by many news sources as showing a 12-pt. lead for Obama over Clinton, but this is among those who have voted or plan to vote in a Democratic primary.

However, Clinton actually leads Obama by 1 point when the question is asked of "registered voters who identify themselves as Democrats, regardless of whether they have voted or plan to vote in a Democratic primary". This represents a net 5-point gain for Clinton since April 3.

Although the NY Times and other outlets are not fully reporting the poll's meaning, these results show that Obama has lost substantial support among people who have already voted for him.

In other good news for Clinton, the CBS/NYT pollster's report states:

For the first time since October 2007, more registered voters overall have a favorable impression of Clinton than an unfavorable one.

and...

When asked who is "tough enough to make hard choices," Clinton gets 70%, McCain 71%, and Obama 58%.

The pollster writes:

Some perceptions of Obama's qualities have shifted in the last few weeks, and he has lost his edge over Clinton on a few past strengths. He is behind both Clinton and McCain on the question of who is tough enough to make the hard decisions a president must.

Clinton has been campaigning as the "fighter" and the tough candidate who can get things done - and most voters agree.

However, more voters (52%) view Obama as the candidate who would unite the country; slightly fewer now say this about Clinton (though the gap between the two has shrunk in the last week).

Hillary clearly now has momentum.

UPDATE 5/5/08 8:18 PM PST: Ipsos Poll Shows Clinton Picking Up Steam-- Another national poll was released today, on the eve of the Indiana and North Carolina primaries. The new Ipsos poll confirms the momentum for Clinton, giving her a 7-point (47:40) lead in a poll conducted over the weekend. This is a net 10-point gain for Clinton from Ipsos's last poll, which was conducted April 23-27. The pollster stated its survey question as follows:

Among Democratic supporters across the country, 47% say that if the 2008 Democratic presidential primary or caucus was being held in their state today, they would choose Clinton.



Display:


Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 17)

Hillary is looking stronger than ever!


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:08:22 PM EST

Great news TexasDarlin, thank you (2.00 / 11)

I'd like to recommend your diary, but I'm new here and can't figure out how it's done.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:16:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think it takes a week (2.00 / 7)

before you can rec a diary.  When you can there will be a button near the top of the right hand side bar.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:26:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think it takes a week (2.00 / 6)

Ok, thank you. I'll keep an eye peeled for it :)


by phoenixdreamz on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:30:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think it takes a week (2.00 / 7)

in the meantime, have some newbie mojo.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:35:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think it takes a week (2.00 / 4)

hi, phoenixdreamz! ;-)


by campskunk on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:20:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hiya camp! :) (2.00 / 4)

Further downthread I responded to Alegre's comment explaining what happened to me, or rather what happened to you? lol

Glad I found you all :)


by phoenixdreamz on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:24:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great news TexasDarlin, thank you (2.00 / 1)

You have to faithfully parrot the pro-Clinton line for a week before gaining that privilege.  


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 3)

Ye gods.  Nice selective quoting of the CBS poll, which has Obama leading Clinton 50-38.  


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:19:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (1.00 / 2)


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

This truly is the funniest spin diaries I've ever seen.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

TexasDarlin is a Taylor Marsh acolyte, and she is beyond critical thinking.  Up is down, black is white, etc. etc.  Blind support for Hillary, facts be damned.  It's the Bush 2004 thing all over, but for Clinton.  

Ignore her.  She's wholly without reason.  


by LarsThorwald on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:51:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 8)

I guess you missed the point.  That 12 points includes people who have already voted.  When that variable is removed, Clinton leads.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:47:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

Let's take a look again, shall we.  Below is the wording from the diary:  

"A CBS/NYT poll released on 5/4/08 is being publicized by many news sources as showing a 12-pt. lead for Obama over Clinton, but this is among those who have voted or plan to vote in a Democratic primary.

However, Clinton actually leads Obama by 1 point when the question is asked of "registered voters who identify themselves as Democrats, regardless of whether they have voted or plan to vote in a Democratic primary".

The difference between the two is not whether people have voted.  The one polls likely voters and the second polls all regardless of whether people plan to vote.  the only distinction in that case is Senator Clinton is supported by more people who either 1.  can't be bothered to vote or 2. are prevented from voting in democratic primaries because of their registration.  


by oliver cromwell on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 3)

I disagree.  The first group includes only people who have voted or plan to vote in primaries.  Since the primaries are nearly over, most of the people in that category have already voted.  The second group is basically all Democrats.

Which do you think is most important to determining November electability?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:36:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

neither of these is the absolute key to November electability.  The poll only dealing with proclaimed Democrats won't cut it because part of the critical appeal of Obama is his ability to win real live living and breathing Independents and Republicans in the General Election.  Neither of these polls get at that crucial ingredient.  but you can continue to spin as you wish.  I and others will call you on it when you make claims that aren't supported by your evidence.


by oliver cromwell on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:25:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

"Which do you think is most important to determining November electability?"

You mean the poll of just people who have proven that they'll get out there and vote compared with the poll that includes people who for some reason haven't bothered to get out there and vote?  I think I'll rely on the group that's demonstrated they're likely to actually vote in November.


by ThinkerT on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's JOEMENTUM!!! nt (none / 0)


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:30:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (1.50 / 2)

So Hillary leads among people who aren't going to vote?  Wow.  Is this really the next lame rationale in attempting to deny that Hillary is losing?

In 2 months, is Hillary going to be complaining that primaries shouldn't count because they only represent people who vote and not everybody over 18?


by KevinT on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:26:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 4)

This would be a funny commentary if it weren't for the Obama supporters who claim that the FL primary shouldn't be counted as voted by the Democratic voters of FL because some folks (gasp!) decided to stay home and not vote.

So why are you attempting to trash Hillary with a hypothetical that your candidate has already endorsed and claimed as "correct"?


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

I tried to understand your post, but I just can't wrap my head around your logic.  

Hillary's campaign is the one attempting to break the rules, change the metrics for deciding the race,  and completely misinterpret the polls.

What am I missing here?  Of course its in Obama's best interest not to seat MI and FL, but he can at least claim to just be following the rules, not making up new ones every week.


by KevinT on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:48:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

The only metrics Hillary is changing are the imaginary metrics people unfamiliar with the rules mistakenly believed would determine the outcome.  

I think a lot of Obama fans got way too cozy, having been duped by their leaders into assuming that the nomination would be decided by 48 states and that "the pledged delegate count of 48 states" would be the infallible gauge for determining a winner.

Welcome back to reality.


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:55:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

I'm 38, unimpressionable, and I know that Hillary is as electable in Florida as Obama right now--which is to say, not at all.

"Young and impressionable."  Feh.


by LarsThorwald on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:54:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

I'm 38, unimpressionable, and I know that Hillary is as electable in Florida as Obama right now--which is to say, not at all.

"Young and impressionable."  Feh.


by LarsThorwald on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 4)

No, I guess I need to spell it out:

Among Dems who have already voted or plan to vote, BO leads by 12.

But among voters who identify themselves as Dems, whether or not they've already voted, Hillary leads.

This means he has lost support among people who have already voted.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

perhaps we need to spell this out.  This set of data CANNOT be used to determine distinctions between voters that already voted.  A pollster could set out to determine whether his support has softened among those who already voted, but they would have to poll exclusively people who already voted and determine if their preferences have changed.  This poll doesn't check that.


by oliver cromwell on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:04:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

I am not following how you reach that result.  I haven't looked at the poll but what you are saying..

Group 1 includes people who have voted and people who plan to vote - Obama Leads by 12 in this group.

Clinton does better in group 2 which includes everyone, whether they have voted or plan to vote.

The difference between group 2 and group 1 is not people who have already voted.  If that is the case you conclusion that Obama has lost support amongst people who have already voted make sense.  However, group 1 and 2 both include people who already voted, so that category can't account for the difference.  It seems the additional category in group 2 is people who do not plan to vote.


by labor nrrd on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:12:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

You don't understand the poll you're writing about.

The O+12 number is the "likely voters" number. That's the meat of every poll you guys post, either direction, because that's the "predict the outcome vote."

It'd be great if we lived in a country with 100% participation. But that's not the case, which is why LV polls are more useful, and also why there's real variation among the various polling outfits.

So, if everyone was involved, but only Democrats could vote, it would be Hillary +1. We don't live in that fictional country though. In order for that to happen, the electorate would have to be much more engaged -- as Likely Voters are, naturally.

It's sort of like looking at a football score by adding up offensive yards regardless of whether the ball was caught or not. Might be interesting to a dozen Fantasy Football players, but outside of Fantasyland, it's no good to anyone.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

If you are correct, you've made the point even stronger for me and more importantly for Hillary.

If these national polls (e.g., Gallup and Rasmussen tracking) are only surveying people who have already voted or are likely to vote in the primaries, then I think they are useless.  Now that the primaries are nearly over, it's much more valuable to know how all Democrats feel because primary voters are only a small percentage of GE Democratic voters.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:07:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

No!  Because for general elections, the matter widens out beyond just what Democrats will do.  There are then Independents and Republicans to account for.


by oliver cromwell on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:35:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

It also includes many in causes states who would have voted for Hillary but couldn't due to various reasons.


by Sandeep on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:10:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

No, that's not what I'm saying.  See my reply to Oliver Cromwell upthread.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

More cherrypicking...


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

They love the cherries.  The gargantuan pile of pits is beginning to look a little nasty though.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

Go Hillary go...Bring her home for America!  Good Luck on Tuesday Madama President!


Pride & Prejudice...The American Way!
by FISG on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:36:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What a joke (none / 0)

What a joke.  That survey was conducted at the end of last week based on Friday's polls and the numbers had vanished by the day the story was published - or didn't you get that memo?

You want to know how a newspaper works?  That story was in the can early Friday for Monday's paper:

Gallup Poll Daily tracking shows Barack Obama is the current choice of 49% of Democratic voters nationwide for the party's presidential nomination, while 45% back Hillary Clinton.

Try educating yourself for spouting bullshit.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:54:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

She lost it in Gallup today, and in Rasmuessen.


by Spanky on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:08:55 PM EST

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion the Obama has lost support by those who have voted for him.


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:12:35 PM EST

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 4)

LOL..wake up.


by JoeySky18 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

There is no evidence of that in the poll - the diarists makes that claim, but really which stats back it up.


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (1.00 / 1)

I'm not sure since I couldn't figure out exactly what she was claiming and with what data, but this may be an example of the ecological fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_ fallacy
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:10:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 2)

See my reply to Oliver Cromwell upthread.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:39:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 10)

Hillary Clinton seems to be closing the primary strong while Obama is heading to the finish line limping.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:13:03 PM EST

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 6)

I don't know about the polls but I know the calls I'm making in Greensboro, N.C. are all Hillary. I expect a great turnout here and even with the demographics against us, I'm looking for it to be close. The enthuiasm in North Carolina  is tremendous for both candidates.  


by Tolstoy on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

Unfortunately for HRC he can limp across the finish line using nothing but his lower lip to propel himself, and STILL finish far enough ahead to win the nomination.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:35:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

Yep, that's the kind of leader we need in America.


by Sandeep on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:13:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree. (none / 0)

One who gets the job done early, gets ahead of the game and moves on to focus on other things.


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:32:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

And that's the kind of nominee you want!?!

I thought it was about nominating a winner.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Momentum!!!! When It Wont Matter!!!! (2.00 / 1)

Lets see...my choices are:

1) Someone who planned to win the game as the rules were set and agreed, stuck to that plan and lead all the way through and won based on that plan, or

2) Someone who planned poorly and when caught in a poor plan floundered trying to recover while losing more ground, then when presented with no viable option under current circumstances and rules started to lobby to change the rules and metrics with incredibly selective and disingenuous arguments, and only started to compete to win when only 12 races (out of 50+ total) remained.

Lets see, which person would I choose?

Yes, Clinton has come on very strong and shown she is a good candidate and has solid support.  I dont think anyone ever doubted this was the case.  But its too bad she didnt do that from the beginning.  

And yes, Obama has failed to score a knockout punch and has played safe.  Thing is, though, he doesnt have to swing for the fences (as much as I want him to), he has taken the (frustrating to me) tortoise route, refusing to go all in when safe will win.  Unfortunately, this has left him little wiggle room (and Clinton a lot of wiggle room) in how he can campaign and it gives Clinton a solid shot at slightly closing the margin (but a very, very long shot at overtaking the margin).

There seems to be some weird mental gynastics among die hard Clinton supporters that want to reward and praise their candidate for waking up in the 4th quarter after hitting snooze in the first 3 yet denigrate their opponent for putting together a winning plan and sticking to it through to the end even though it has no pizzaz.  

Its a shame really, because if she had campaigned the way she is now in the first part of the contest I believe she would have ended this after Super Tuesday.  But Obama just played to win, stuck to script, took the hits (most self inflicted) when they came, didnt get rattled too much and lead from the front without resorting to too much negativity.

I dont like rewarding incompetency in a candidate.  If Clinton loses it will be because she played the primary wrong.  Her supporters seem to see her campaigns incompetency as some sort of virtue (or refuse to acknowledge it shows a serious defect in her governing style).  But I see it as a reflection of the candidate who will wildly misread the playing field and only fought hard and right when the game was basically over and lost.  How is that inspiring?  How does that make me believe she can govern well?

All that said, Im smart enough to see Clinton, if the nominee, will beat McCain handily.  I also believe Obama will easily do the same.  So while I want Obama, I'll support Clinton (but be my usual pissed off self on the inside).


by pattonbt on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 4)

we will know by Tuesday night.  NC & IN will decide.


by JoeySky18 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:14:14 PM EST

Momentum is a joke; polls are a joke; votes matter (none / 0)

Just like Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania decided it.

Nothing that wasn't decided already, will be decided tomorrow. This is a game of attrition and the ball is in Senator Clinton's court to change anything, otherwise, when time expires, it's Senator Obama who has the strongest argument.

Pledge delegate count and popular vote.

Senator Obama will win North Carolina and Senator Clinton will win Indiana. Nothing surprising; nothing game-changing.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:18:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ohio, Texas, Pa (2.00 / 4)

MI, FL, NY, CA, NJ, RI, MA, .....

they all matter and she has a GREAT  argument.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:30:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ohio, Texas, Pa (none / 0)

I see a few states - Michigan, in which Obama currently polls stronger, California in which Obama polls as strong, if not stronger, New Jersey in which Obama polls stronger, Rhode Island which he would win, Massachussets which he would and Florida, which both candidates will likely lose. Or perhaps Senator Clinton might win it.

But what I see is a few states. Senator Obama has won the closest swing state - Wisconsin; has put Iowa, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico into play and guarantees wins in Oregon and Washington, whereas Senator Clinton currently makes them battleground states.

So no - your argument isn't anymore valid than mien and superdelegates won't hear it. You've listed many Democratic states that will stay Democratic.

The smart thing is to go with the candidate that has broader appeal, and who has a chance of winning states we otherwise might not win. That person is Senator Obama.

But both would win in November.

It's just as I said - the ball's in Senator Clinton's court and it's Senator Obama's game to really lose.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:33:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ohio, Texas, Pa (none / 0)

Why you so smart?  What you do here?  You no fit in.  Mongo no like you crapping his corn flakes.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:37:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ohio, Texas, Pa (none / 0)

She'd have a better argument if she wasn't so far behind in delegates.


by Lawyerish on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:41:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 2)

GO HILLARY!!!  That CBS poll showing Obama with a 12 point lead has really convinced me of her momentum and inevitability!  Way to break it down! YEAH HILLARY!!!


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:14:17 PM EST

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

But there are statistics! Deep statistics that show Hillary REALLY has the momentum, overall numbers be damned.

Statistics would never lie. Statistics would never Damn lie either.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:42:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

Oh I get it.  Your are both being sarcastic...or not?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:41:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 6)

i disagree, sort of.  I think that her spunk, her cheerfulness and her great ideas and clear explanations are why she's gaining ground.  Like Obama, before he won a few states no one thought he could make it, but with PA, Hillary has shown that she can win the popular vote and be our nominee, and it's been against media bias on a grand scale and negative campaigning by Barack.  Of course his negativity is sinking in, she's always got to fact check him. He's been going around saying that her tax holiday idea is just like McCains, but the point of her idea is to make the oil companies pay the tax, and that should be something he'd agree with, given that he thinks it's she that's beholden to the oil industry and won't do anything to piss them off.  The contest has veered in her favor.  


by anna shane on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:16:03 PM EST

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 8)

She seems energized.

He seems... well - bored.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

Did you hear about Obama's SIX superdelgates today???


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

Yeah, but HRC has the mo-men-tum.  ;)


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 2)

Clinton has lost three of the last four election contests.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:40:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

pssst...jiggle the handle on your snark meter. ;)

Sometimes I'm a little to subtle.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

And sometimes, just sometimes, I type "to" instead of "too".


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

I did get it..but I still had to post it!  :}


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 2)

She seems to be losing.

He seems. . . well - to be winning.

Breaking news!!! If you only poll Hillary's supporters, she seems to have taken a commanding lead over Obama.  Someone call Drudge!!!


by KevinT on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:29:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

bored and annoyed (2.00 / 6)

that he has to continue fighting for the nomination.  He thinks it's his already.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:32:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bored and annoyed (none / 0)

Pledged delegates
Barack Obama is 133 pledged delegates away from getting a majority of pledged delegates.
Hillary Clinton is 294 pledged delegates away from getting a majority of pledged delegates

Oveall delegates
Barack Obama is 285 delegates away from getting a majority of delegates.
Hillary Clinton is 416 delegates away from getting a majority of delegates.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:39:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bored and annoyed (1.25 / 4)

Yeah Obama won the pledge delegates from Caucuses in smaller States when he bus people from Illinois;

further more not counting votes from Florida and Michigan...  

That right, a real change from decency to disarray; looks like we're all being bamboozled!


by SHIBAM8P on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I would hide-rate this if I could (none / 0)

But my rating powers mysteriously vanished a week ago

You have just accused a Democratic senator and possible presidential nominee of purposely arranging for voters to vote in a different state and committing electoral fraud. I'm pretty sure that that goes against the guidelines of this site


John McCain
by MILiberal on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey you, hello :) (2.00 / 3)

and Hi to all my good friends whom I lost track of as the result of a particular writer's strike :) I took a break from the blog infighting, and end of the school year duties prolonged my absense (diagnostic testing, progress evaluations, approving & signing off on IEP's, and on and on). When I returned, I became aware of the turn of events but had no idea what happened to you. Recently, a spate of "go back to MyDD" comments there caught my attention, prompting me to do a Google search which brought me here. Glad to be back among you.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:43:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey you, hello :) (2.00 / 2)

well, glad you made it! the flying monkeys are alive and kicking, and we're psyched for the elections tomorrow. hillary has her groove back ;-)


by campskunk on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:24:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

:) I actually think it's more than that (2.00 / 2)

Hillary has found her groove after being shaken loose from the inevitable meme the MSM laid on her. Regardless of how this contest turns out, I am so proud of her, now more than ever. She's learned to stand on her own and developed into an awesome politician in her own right, fought for and earned every vote and delegate she's got, and this despite running against a candidate whom the media dubbed it's darling and carried for most of the political season.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:44:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: :) I actually think it's more than that (2.00 / 1)

What an incredible panderer she's turned out to be!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: :) I actually think it's more than that (2.00 / 4)

politicsmatter, you sound nervous.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: :) I actually think it's more than that (2.00 / 1)

Jesus christ give it a rest with the "media bias" whining.  The only story with legs this entire campaign is Reverend Wright.  You can't flip on cable news for 2 seconds without hearing a discussion of Wright, or a clip of his sermons.  

And no, I'm not whining "bias" against Obama.  All I am saying is that you seriously need to check yourself before continuing to whine about Hillary getting a short stick.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:46:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: :) I actually think it's more than that (2.00 / 3)

I don't understand what you're talking about. I  never said Hillary got a short stick, and my comment was very positive and upbeat, anything but whine. Cheer up :)


by phoenixdreamz on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

This morning with Matt Lauer, Obama said that since Wright went on national TV, that's why he had to denounce his pastor. Matt asked so when he says similar stuff in his church, it is ok but when he says it on national TV, it is bad? Obama had no answer and tried to say this not what American people need. When Matt questioned him on his judgement, he again tried to bluff it on American people.

And surprisingly, he kept calling Matt as Tim. May be he had memorized lots of Tim's Q&A to look good on Sunday.


by Sandeep on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:20:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (1.00 / 2)

Hahahahahahaha, Tim, Matt, Chris, what the hell?  All you white people look the same and all those white men really look the same LOL

(just kidding).

But he must be really tired now.  Is this who we need in the White House?

Hillary's rocking to the WHITE HOUSE!


by stefystef on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (1.50 / 2)

LOL

His position is untenable.

I can't wait until someone asks him on camera,

"Senator Obama, can you kindly look the 2.5 million Democratic voters in Michigan & Florida in the eye and tell them why you don't want their votes to count?"

That would be the point where those "monitors" show his response makes support go into the ZERO zone.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

"Senator Clinton, why did the DNC committee filled with a majority of your die hard supporters, including key campaign adviser Harold Ickes, vote to strip FL and MI of their votes?"

"Why did you sign a petition to nullify those votes, and then backtrack on that petition when FL and MI became part of your last-gasp effort to secure the nomination?"


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's bored. (2.00 / 1)

Because he put the nomination away in Wisconsin and is just waiting for the process to play itself out and Clinton to concede or decide to self immolate.


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

I don't trust media meme's - but I think you're correct, in that Bill Clinton is doing events like the Energizer Bunny beats the drum....


by Falsehood on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:33:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bored! (2.00 / 1)

That is exactly it!  You have nailed his platform.  He is the bored candidate that gets bitchy when his message of "hope" gets picked apart by his Pastor, the voters that didn't read his books, or the bitter mid-westerners that cling to guns and God over him.

He never responds well to criticism.  Is that because he can't?  Or because he's bored and incapable of critical answers on the stump?  He is STILL giving that same tired speech in Indiana & North Carolina.  Why doesn't he mix it up, talk issues, provide solutions?  I know he has them.  I have read them on his site, but he is too disaffected to talk about them on the campaign trail.  Why?


Pride & Prejudice...The American Way!
by FISG on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

You don't get it do you???  Her gas tax plan will NEVER happen!! She is not president yet and there is no way she, alone, is going to get a tax on the oil companies from pres bush right now.  She is totally pandering (was against the same thing in New York)for votes from her demographic, which is blue collar uneducated workers...just the people such a thing will entice.  
Her plan will cost thousands of jobs because RIGHT NOW there is no tax on the oil companies to pay for what is lost through her holiday gas tax.
by mariannie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:52:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

Tomorrow we'll see what all these polls actually mean.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:17:50 PM EST

Gallop Dail Tracking (none / 0)

Tells a different story..sorry.


by JoeCoaster on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:19:07 PM EST

Re: Gallop Dail Tracking (none / 0)

But does that track the people who have or will vote in a primary or thought about voting in a primary compared to those who just thought about thinking about voting in a primary and who are registered as a Democrat but didn't vote in the Democratic primary but really, REALLY plan on thinking about voting in the general election?  Because only those breakdowns will show Hillary's true base of support.


by ThinkerT on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (1.87 / 8)

Yee Ha!  You GO girl!

Rise Hillary RISE!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:20:06 PM EST

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

Why are you calling a 60 year old woman a girl?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 2)

Wouldn't expect you to understand that...


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:52:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

It's an expression, I think your obvious undertone isn't very helpful.....


by Falsehood on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:36:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

I have wondered about that for months...'gal' and 'girl' - sounds a little sexist to me!!


by mariannie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:53:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 6)

Thanks for clarifying these misleading numbers from the NYT. These are very troubling figures for the Obama campaign, which is trying to dismiss this as political jargon. Who are they trying to kid. Furthermore, the media just doesn't want to admit how great the news is for Hillary, because they are unwilling to accept a Clinton nomination. Their style of reporting just isn't resonating with voters any longer, they see through all of these political pundits.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:23:32 PM EST

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

OK, we get it now.  Everthing is biased against Hillary.
It must be hard when all you can lean on are your own surrogates, and a  handful of right wing hacks to help tear your opposition apart for you.
Such a small corner you've painted yourselves in,  and not a very creative use of a paintbrush, I might add.
by haystax calhoun on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (none / 0)

That would be because they can add.


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:36:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

That is absolute rubbish!! The media has been cheering for Hillary for the past month or more....she can do nothing wrong now.  Stop playing the victim, which your candidate does so well - it is not attractive.


by mariannie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:12:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

Wow, you really cherry picked that NYT poll.  Pretty amazing that you can take a poll showing a 12 pt Obama lead and spin it to show a Clinton advantage.


by haystax calhoun on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:25:50 PM EST

Also From the USA Today Poll (none / 0)

One-third of likely voters say Obama's ties to Wright make them less likely to vote for him. But Obama isn't the only candidate with divisive connections: One-third of likely voters say Clinton's association with Bill Clinton, her husband and the former president, makes them less likely to support her.


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:26:04 PM EST

Re: Also From the USA Today Poll (none / 0)

That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2 New Polls: MORE HILLARY MOMENTUM! (2.00 / 1)

Why hasn't Clinton introduced her Gas Tax Holiday bill yet??  We are 3 weeks away from Memorial day and it's been a week since she said she was going to introduce it...What's up??


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:35:58 PM EST

When is Hillary going to (none / 0)

go back to the Senate to pass this gas tax? You know for immediate relief.

How is Ms. Solutions going to get this done.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:47:56 PM EST

Re: When is Hillary going to (2.00 / 3)

Remind me what plan does Obama have to help consumers and their out-of-control gas prices?

I hear alot of critique from Obama, but no solutions.  Guess that's not in the script.


by stefystef on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When is Hillary going to (2.00 / 1)

Open your eyes.

Open your mind.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy /


Unable to rec or rate Still supporting Obama
by astoria gooner on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When is Hillary going to (2.00 / 1)

Oh, that's SO two years from now, this energy plan (I guess Obama still hasn't explained why voted FOR the current Cheney Energy Plan which is screwing us right now).

When Obama doesn't have an answer, it's accepted.  Hillary isn't allowed the same "pass" as Barack.  

People need IMMEDIATE relief, not lofty words.


by stefystef on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When is Hillary going to (2.00 / 1)

There is no quick fix.

That is why a preponderance of economic thought completely disagrees with that plan.

I'd rather have a plan that tries to solve the problem over the long term than an election year pander that does nothing.

What happens after the holiday by the way? Also, if we are going to have this enacted by Memorial Day, when is she going to introduce this legislation?


Unable to rec or rate Still supporting Obama
by astoria gooner on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:11:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What happens after a gas tax holiday? (none / 0)

According to ARTBA (http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cl iid=8p6p4), about a loss of more than 310,000 jobs!


To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." - Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:24:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When is Hillary going to (2.00 / 1)

George Bush just gave me $600. Should I vote for him?


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When is Hillary going to (none / 0)

I hate to break it to you Stef, but if you expect our government to be able to control gas prices you're sadly mistaken.  Hillary Clinton can bloviate about "saving consumers money at the pumps" all she wants, but it won't matter. It's called a "market economy" because the market controls the prices.  

Demand is greater than supply, so prices are going up.  Instability in the world is high (see: Iraq war, "Obliterate Iran" threats) so oil commodity prices are going up.  Gas prices will go down when demand goes down, and when speculators see some stability in the Middle East.

The only way President Clinton or Obama would be able to influence gas prices is by reducing our nation's demand for oil.  And even that might not help much, as the growing demand in the developing world will probably just pick up our slack.  We've enjoyed artificially dirt cheap gas in this country for a long time.  $4/gal gas is here to stay so you might as well get used to it.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When is Hillary going to (2.00 / 1)

he has a stimulus package on the board....better than half-assed solutions which will cost jobs AND infrastructure repair delays.  $30-$50 for the whole summer???  WOW!! that is a real pile of dough - but then the oil companies will charge more for gas to make up for it, so what's the big deal?


by mariannie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:10:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How much momentum do you need (2.00 / 1)

to run face first into a brick wall called "reality"?

She ain't winning this thing.


by realcountrymusic on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:03:57 PM EST

Re: How much momentum do you need (2.00 / 4)

The only one walking into a wall is Barak Obama.  You can see it in his face on "Meet the Press".


by stefystef on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:31:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How much momentum do you need (none / 0)

Why can't you spell his name correctly?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:35:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How much momentum do you need (2.00 / 1)

I forgot to type the "c" and you are getting your nose out of joint?
It looks like the Obama followers are starting to crack too.

Now Obama's calling all white male reporters "Tim", as he did repeatedly to Matt Laurer this morning.