MyDD :: Hey Huff Post - It's Howard Dean That Went "Nuclear"

Hey Huff Post - It's Howard Dean That Went "Nuclear"

by Michael Begala, Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:29:01 PM EST

Tommy Edsall over at the Huffy Post is in rare anti-Clinton hysteria form - well, not so rare over there - and is breathlessly warning Obama devotees of Clinton's "nuclear option".

What's this? Will she nuke the convention center if denied the nomination? No, it appears what has Tommy peeing his pants is that awful, scary woman actually utilizing DNC rules in an attempt to get Michigan and Florida delegates seated.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/04 /clinton-camp-considering_n_100051.html

Here are some tidbits...

"Hillary Clinton's campaign has a secret weapon to build its delegate count..."

Secret? Anyone that has been remotely following the situation knows the Clinton campaign has made no secret of their desire to see the Michigan and Florida delegations seated.

"With at least 50 percent of the Democratic Party's 30-member Rules and Bylaws Committee committed to Clinton, her backers could -- when the committee meets at the end of this month -- try to ram through a decision to seat the disputed 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations. Such a decision would give Clinton an estimated 55 or more delegates than Obama, according to Clinton campaign operatives."

'Clinton operatives'? 'Ram through'? Sorry, but it will all be transparent, and the action will depend on a vote of the committee.

"Using the Rules and Bylaws Committee to force the seating of two pro-Hillary delegations would provoke a massive outcry from Obama forces."

And? I for one have tired of the arguement that we cannot offend the flash-in-the-pan Obama supporters that have never been involved in a campaign and never will be again. (I'm assuming the ones that are good Democrats wouldn't flee the party.)

"Clinton loyalists on the Rules Committee would have to be persuaded to put their political futures on the line by defying major party constituencies, especially black leaders backing Barack Obama. Committee members are unlikely to take such a step unless they are convinced that Clinton has a strong chance of winning the nomination."

Put their political futures on the line? Is this another in a long line of threats by Camp Obama? (Um, yes it is.)

Sorry, but it is Howard Dean that went nuclear when he stripped Michigan and Florida of all delegates. More common sense soultions, such as halving their delegates, would have saved all of this turmoil, while not alienating two key battleground states.

It is sad the party is being hurt by this, but there is a delicious irony to seeing Howard Dean twist in the wind while his major blunder becomes more and more obvious.

Tags: Obama, clinton, florida, michigan, nuclear, dean (all tags)

Permalink :: 26 Comments :: Post a Comment

that headline (2.00 / 1)

that headline was misleading,

With all this talk of obliterating nations I thought the worst.

The Nuclear option is the end to this campaign.

The supers will endorse in mass to make the committee pointless.

This reminds me of "suicide by police" where a surrounded criminal threatens an officer with the certainty he will be killed.
Maybe this was an intentional move by HRC to end her campain by losing the delegate race.

Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:34:23 PM EST

OMG OMG OMG (2.00 / 3)

The Democratic party is backing DEMOCRACY??????

How will Obama win?

Someone must have broken the RULES.

Are we a party about RULES or a party about DEMOCRACY???

Someone is going to have to put their foot down and tell those democracy first people to leave the party or Obama is in trouble.

Rules first, Democracy second, Freedom Third

not

Democracy first, Freedom second, Rules third

OMG OMG OMG

This is terrible for Obama

by DTaylor on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:35:09 PM EST

Re: OMG OMG OMG (2.00 / 1)

Here's an even better idea... let's have rules but then allow states to break them without consequence if the race is close.... That's a fabulous idea...

Oh wait... no it isn't a good idea... kind of akin to stop or I will say stop again....

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:40:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ZOMG! (none / 0)

And they're TALKING about him suppressing the votes!?!? They're not supposed to do that! It's a secret!

How is he going to get away with this if it's out there in broad daylight?

(faints)

2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.

by BPK80 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:18:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So NOW you chime in...? (2.00 / 1)

you spoke out about the states being stripped of their delegates to begin with, right...? You emailed Howard Dean and the state leaders to see if an equitable solution could be found when they were making this decision over the summer, right...?

I'm just curious because I keep hearing vitriol aimed at Howard Dean AFTER the fact... (The silence on this issue was pretty deafening hen it was being decided)....

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:38:10 PM EST

the good news (2.00 / 1)

At least the Iranians will be safe if she nukes the Democrats first.

John McCain: Cheney with a temper

by wrb on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:42:07 PM EST

Rules are rules (2.00 / 2)

It definitely wasn't Howard Dean that stripped FL & MI of its delegates. That would be the legislatures of those states. Howard Dean drew a line in the sand, and those states chose to cross it. Regardless of motive, support, or actual result, that's what it is right now.

Clinton & Obama are not running to be the standard-bearers of some hypothetical ideal of democracy, they are running for the Democratic nomination. There are rules to win, and the winning metric is delegates. If those same rules allow the committee to seat MI & FL delegates, then that's fine too. Rules are rules.

So, Obama supporters, if the committee decides to sit the delegates, rules are rules, and you can't whine about 'fairness'.

And Clinton supporters, if the committee rejects the appeal to seat those delegates, rules are rules, and you can't whine about 'fairness'.

Deal?

"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."

by VAAlex on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:42:40 PM EST

Re: Rules are rules (2.00 / 1)

Have some mojo... if for no other reason than for recognizing that it was not Howard Dean that created this mess...

I cannot hear that often enough....

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:50:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Simple question... (2.00 / 2)

Do you think Howard Dean's nukes, when tossed under the bus, will allow it to jump the shark?

"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!

by username3 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:53:42 PM EST

Didn't Harold Ickes vote to strip FL and MI? (2.00 / 0)

And we know what McAuliffe said in 2004:

"You won't deny us seats at the convention," he said.

"Carl, take it to the bank," I said. "They will not get a credential. The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules. If you want to call my bluff, Carl, you go ahead and do it."

We glared at each other some more, but there was nothing much left to say. I was holding all the cards and Levin knew it.

It's Clinton supporting Dem leadership in FL and MI that created the mess in the first place. It's they who should be blamed for the fiasco.

Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers

by NeuvoLiberal on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:14:07 PM EST

Link to McAuliffe excerpt: (none / 0)

Clinton-Backer McAuliffe Threatened To Strip Rogue Delegates In 2004 Cycle
By Eric Kleefeld - April 26, 2008, 3:05PM

Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers

by NeuvoLiberal on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:18:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

longer excerpts here: (none / 0)

HuffPo, DKos

Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers

by NeuvoLiberal on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:20:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Case in point (2.00 / 2)

If there is any doubt as to why half the Democratic party feels completely alienated by neoliberal extremism, this is an excellent case-in-point.

The new Left screams loud and shrill throughout the echo chambers that votes must NOT be counted, and rules must NOT be followed. To do either of these things would be tantamount to nuclear annhilation.

Do these folks even remember what democracy is anymore?

by bobbank on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:18:46 PM EST

Re: Case in point (none / 0)

ummm... The "new Left"....? Is that anything like the new math I have heard so much about?

The common talkingpoints I have heard about this are "count the votes" versus "follow the rules"... so I don't know who is asking to not follow the rules but my guess is probably the people that want the votes counted... since that would be against the rules.... unless the rules are changed....which we don't know will happen yet....

Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...

by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Case in point (2.00 / 1)

That's what's so cute about it, though.

The "follow the rules" crowd absolutely abhors rules, which allow for MI and FL to be counted and seated however we like, and which do not anywhere state that pledged delegates form some sort of mandate.

by bobbank on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:59:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Case in point (none / 0)

You are still assuming the rules commitee will actually seat them.

Being that they were illegitimate contests how can they be possibly counted?

scratches head....

Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:09:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Case in point (none / 0)

I'm not assuming anything. I am observing that Dean has told you, along with the entire world, that they will be seated, though.

There was nothing illegitimate about the votes that were cast that day - determining whether or not these states have delegates (or how many they get) is a procedural matter.

by bobbank on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:38:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (none / 0)

" people that want the votes counted... since that would be against the rules "

That's entirely false.

Do yourself a favor and get educated. Read the rules.

2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.

by BPK80 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Typical of a Clinton supporter (none / 0)

Mr. Begala! Blame everyone else for the crap campaign that Hillary ran. Blame everyone else for Hillary's support of Dean's plan (including sanctions for those that violated it). Blame everyone else for blowing every advantage in the book!

This is not Dean's fault. The plan was made and approved by the full DNC (including, as I recall...reps from MI and FL including a senior Clinton advisor).

Get off your high horse. Quit whining about Howard Dean. He's done more for the party than any other chairman since Ron Brown!

by southernman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:46:53 PM EST

Re: Typical of an Obama supporter (none / 0)

Obama first, screw the voters.

For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!

by TeresaInPa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:16:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical of an Obama supporter (none / 0)

Hillary First....change the rules until I win!!

by southernman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:18:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And if they are not seated (none / 0)

I don't ever want to hear Howard Dean, Donna Brazile or any Obama supporter mention Florida and 2000 and how the Republicans stole the election because they will be just as guilty.

Ha! The Democratic Party don't need no stinkin' democracy!

by cmugirl90 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And if they are not seated (none / 0)

Change the rules til Clinton wins. It's so sad. You guys try and change the rules at every turn and still are not ahead in any election parameter.

Want to get pissed off. Go after the Clinton staffers who are DNC members and approved of the plan.

by southernman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:29:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rules (none / 0)

People can whine all they want but at the end of the day, I guess the only thing that matters is the rules.

The rules provide real options for seating Iowa, Florida, Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, all states in technical violation of the timing prohibition.

2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.

by BPK80 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:24:17 PM EST

LOL--You reminded me of my (none / 0)

son, when he was 3. He wanted me to play cards with him and he would deal. He'd deal me a card and them himself 4 or 5 cards. After all cards were dealt I asked how we play this game. He said 'Whoever has the most cards wins!'

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:44:35 PM EST

Oops, this was a reply to (none / 0)

southernman's comment 'Change the rules until I win'

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:45:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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