Poll: Flap over pastor hurts Obama

Barack Obama's national standing has been significantly damaged by the controversy over his former pastor, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, raising questions for some voters about the Illinois senator's values, credibility and electability.

The erosion of support among Democrats and independents raises the stakes in Tuesday's Indiana and North Carolina primaries, which represent a chance for Obama to reassert his claim to a Democratic nomination that seems nearly in his grasp. A defeat in Indiana and a close finish in North Carolina, where he's favored, could fuel unease about his ability to win in November. Such results also could help propel Hillary Rodham Clinton's uphill campaign all the way to the Democratic convention in August.

In the USA TODAY survey, taken Thursday through Saturday, Clinton leads Obama among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents by 7 percentage points, the first time in three months she has been ahead. Two weeks ago, before the controversy over comments by Jeremiah Wright reignited, Obama led by 10 points.

In February, Democrats and Democratic leaners by 33 points said Obama had a better shot at beating Republican John McCain in November. Clinton is now seen as the stronger candidate by 5 points.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/el ection2008/2008-05-04-obama_N.htm

By the way a NY Times / CBS poll paints an entirely different picture .

A majority of American voters say that the furor over the relationship between Senator Barack Obama and his former pastor has not affected their opinion of Mr. Obama, but a substantial number say that it could influence voters this fall should he be the Democratic presidential nominee, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News Poll.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/05/us/pol itics/05poll.html?_r=1&hp&oref=s login

Who is right ?



Display:


this diary seems stale (2.00 / 2)

I'm shocked!

A hardcore HRC partisan claims that something makes Obama unelectable.

Wow! I've gotta rethink my position on Obama vs. Clinton now.


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:29:37 AM EST

Re: this diary seems stale (2.00 / 2)

A hardcore HRC partisan claims that something makes Obama unelectable.

- Where exactly did I make that claim lol

Unless you think I am USA Today/Gallup.

Maybe I should have put everything in quotations because the only thing I added was

" who is right "

and I did that specifically because of comments like yours.

I am trying to point out the bogusness of these polls when 2 polls within the same time frame shows drastically 2 different results.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:35:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this diary seems stale (none / 0)

Here is part of the explanation between the two:

"In the national survey, Clinton now leads the Democratic presidential contest, 51%-44%, a reversal from two weeks ago. Obama's standing among Democrats and Democratic leaners has dropped 6 points; Clinton's is up 11.

However, those findings differ from a separate Gallup tracking poll of voters, which shows Obama with a narrow lead, 49%-45%. The daily tracking poll has a margin of error of +-3 points; the USA TODAY poll's margin of error is +-5 points.

The two surveys were taken over the same days, but the tracking poll includes more interviews and a higher proportion of interviews taken on Saturday. It reflects the views of those seen as likely voters; the USA TODAY results include all Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents who were called."

I don't really see the usefulness of including people who aren't going to vote, although those people seem to favor Hillary by a pretty large margin.


by KevinT on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:40:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this diary seems stale (none / 0)

It's your title.  If you would truly like to make this a non-partisan diary, you would make it "Obama hurt by flap over Pastor?  Polls disagree."  It's pretty clear which poll you favor.


by The Distillery on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:21:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this diary seems stale (2.00 / 0)

fine , thats your opinion.

To each , his/her own.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:22:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your title is incorrect (none / 0)

It should be "Two polls produce contrasting results on pastor flap."  You clearly think the poll hurting Obama is true (or rather, you seem to wish it were true).


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:29:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your title is incorrect (2.00 / 1)

Hey it's a free country , you can express your opinion , which I don't agree.

Only in America ,where we all get a chance to dream in red , white , blue.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:42:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Poll: Flap over pastor hurts Obama (none / 0)

I think its too early to tell whether the second round of the Wright controversy permanently damaged Obama.  This issue is just now dying back down again, and it is fresh on voters' minds.  We have seen consistently that these issues hurt Obama for a couple of days and then he bounces back.

I guess we'll find out more on Tuesday in the exit polls.


by KevinT on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:32:42 AM EST

Re: Poll: Flap over pastor hurts Obama (none / 0)

It's important to remember that we're the Democratic party.  For all of our own imperfections, we're the party least likely to be swayed by SCANDALS! (TM) and CONTROVERSIES! (TM).  

General election polls would best reflect its impact in the public at large.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:07:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Repeat of my comment from the other thread: (none / 0)

If polls mattered, Senator Obama would've won New Hampshire, California and Pennsylvania. If polls mattered, Senator Clinton would've finished closer in all the southern states, not losing a plethora of delegates to 20+ point blowouts south of the Mason-Dixon line.

If polls mattered, Senator Kerry would never have been able to run because Al Gore would be President. If Senator Kerry would've been able to run, he would've been President cause the polls said so.

If Exit polling mattered, Senator Obama would've won Texas by 2 points and Ohio by 4. If Exit polling mattered, Kerry would've won Ohio by 3 and the Presidency. If Exit polling mattered, Al Gore would've won Florida.

Polling is a media-created joke that solves nothing. It only embitters people when they're wrong, makes them confident when they perceive them to be right and leads to back and forth bickering on message boards between people who might otherwise be able to talk about relevant things.

Polls accomplish nothing. Votes do. How someone polls doesn't matter. What we have is votes. Votes matter because it isn't polls that decide what happens in November. It's votes. You don't trump votes with polls - that's what it boils down to.

If you averaged all the polls taken this season do you know what the likely outcome would be? Either 50.1% to 49.9% in favor of Obama or just 50/50. These things go up and down faster than.. well.. that'd be naughty.

But let's strive to be realistic. Polls are only good when they favor your candidate. And if there's two, we cherrypick.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:32:43 AM EST

Re: Repeat of my comment from the other thread: (2.00 / 2)

You are rigth , thats why I diaried the 2 .

The point I was trying to make was that these national polls are crap , I was having that discussion with a fellow poster earlier.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:37:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Repeat of my comment from the other thread: (2.00 / 1)

I agree. We have two great candidates. I support Senator Obama, I think you support Senator Clinton. Correct?

If she does win, I think she'd kick Senator McCain's ass in November. And she has my vote.

And the same goes for Senator Obama.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:40:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Repeat of my comment from the other thread: (none / 0)

I support all 3 of them lol.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The truth is buried in the details (2.00 / 1)

Check out this paragraph:

However, those findings differ from a separate Gallup tracking poll of voters, which shows Obama with a narrow lead, 49%-45%. The daily tracking poll has a margin of error of +-3 points; the USA TODAY poll's margin of error is +-5 points.

The two surveys were taken over the same days, but the tracking poll includes more interviews and a higher proportion of interviews taken on Saturday. It reflects the views of those seen as likely voters; the USA TODAY results include all Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents who were called.

If I read this right, the tracker is more up-to-date and more accurate. It has more respondents, and targets likely voters and not "all adults." This USA Today poll also caught more respondents earlier in the week when the Wright issue was fresher than did the tracker; at least th proportion of interviews suggest that.

On issues of Rev. Wright, I'll always take the most up-to-date information because he fades in and out of consciousness.


by elrod on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:45:57 AM EST

Re: The truth is buried in the details (2.00 / 1)

the CBS/NY Times poll is also being discredited by other folks.

I suspect the truth lies in the middle.  


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:48:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The truth is buried in the details (2.00 / 1)

I'm talking about the Gallup tracker, not the NYT/CBS poll.  

One thing I did notice about the NYT/CBS poll was the unusually low number of "liberals" in it. Last time there were 22% liberals. This time only 15% called themselves liberal. That's within a week, so obviously it's just a sampling difference. But with a less liberal respondent pool, the percentage of people bothered by Wright went down - as did the percentage supporting Clinton over Obama and McCain over each.


by elrod on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:54:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The truth is buried in the details (none / 0)

The gallup tracker shows him improving among dems , not the general public.

I frankly don't think the wrigth thing would affect him much in the primary , my focus as always been in the general.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:57:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The truth is buried in the details (2.00 / 1)

That's strange, because in the USA Today poll Obama actually performs better against McCain than Clinton.

Both polls sampled Dems and Dem leaners. The tracker only looked at likely voters though.


by elrod on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:03:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The truth is buried in the details (none / 0)

He'll be an issue, this much I will agree upon. But not in the way Senator Clinton wishes it was. Senator Obama has some Teflon-qualities and the constituencies he needs to pick up for 270 Electoral Votes will not be swayed by that.

And the working-class Dems will have a very blunt choice in the fall once Senator Obama can focus 100% on kicking him upside the head: Four more years or a new way.

It'll be a simple choice. Senator Clinton could go about it in the same manner, with the two constituencies and blocs reversed.

Both sides need to kumbaya or we lose. It doesn't favor anyone. Senator Clinton isn't more likely to do it than Senator Obama. I do think Obama picks up 2 or 3 additional states but the most important thing is the loser being gracious and campaigning.

And as William Jennings Bryan once said - let the two wings of the party flap together.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:50:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Guilt by association tricks don't have long shelf (2.00 / 1)

life.

The possible answer on the impact is: a small blip in Obama's numbers (due to the tag teaming between the righwing nutjobs and the Clinton camp in Wrightboating Obama via Guilt by association (GBA) in  keeping this  in the headlines and 24/7 on the TV shows) but I sense that it's impact is fading (probably more pronouncedly so with Dems and Indies). People are initially susceptible to GBA tricks but eventually they sort things out and tire of and turn against such trickery.

As for "electability," at the end of the day, Wrights words are NOT Obama's words (similar to how Doug Coe's words are not HRC's) and Wright doesn't think for Obama (as became clear from Wright's NPC appearance). OTOH, Clinton owns her Tuzla lie.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:54:05 AM EST

Carville at it again (none / 0)

This time Carville says HRC has three "cojones".

Bastard!


by hienmango on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:54:58 AM EST

Re: Carville at it again (none / 0)

In Louisiana, nothing is sacrosanct :P.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:55:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary is a Republican / Guilt By Association (2.00 / 1)

Hillary was President of College Republican during her college years.

If Obama is guilty by associating with Wright, then Hillary is guilty by association with the Republican party.  

Explains why she's so cozy with McCain on his gas tax holiday.

I wonder why Hillary supporters never mention Hillary's association with the Republican party?


by hienmango on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:06:15 AM EST

Re: Hillary is a Republican / Guilt By Association (none / 0)

Because we all make mistakes. ^_^.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:16:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Republican / Guilt By Association (2.00 / 1)

Because most of us understand that young people are naive and impressionable, tend to enter their college  years either toeing the line on their parents' beliefs or are still rebelling against them.   We understand that it often takes reaching full adulthood -- being financially independent, having children, surviving life's greatest challenges -- to get beyond the influences of parents, professors, friends and celebrities and really start thinking for oneself.  

As a young woman, Hillary wanted to believe in the GOP, she believed their empty rhetoric.  It took being faced with the realities of their practices and a more stable informed world view to make a Democrat out of her.  She matured beyond her youthful crush on Barry Goldwater to see the bigger picture.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:27:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Republican / Guilt By Association (none / 0)

She was a Republican going into college because her parents were republicans.
Once she realized what the republican party stood for, and that it was not what she stood for, she became a Democrat.
I imagine today, you might see a lot of college Republicans switching their allegiance to Democrats because of Obama- should we hold their association with the Republicans against them or welcome them to our party?
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Mon May 05, 2008 at 07:52:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So who got this guy's vote? (none / 0)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2008/05/04/AR2008050401881. html?hpid%3Dsec-nation&sub=AR

He lives in Illinois, but he's right over the line from Indiana. I want to know which candidate appeals Bill Bramanti.

I bet it's McCain, unfortunately. South Chicago Heights is very Republican.


by elrod on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:08:27 AM EST

I think it has hurt Obama short term (none / 0)

When the Wright stuff first came out a few weeks ago, Obama took a bit hit in the polls.  He was in the low 40's in the tracking polls and Hillary was in the high 40's.  Then over time Obama sprung back up into the high 40's.

With Wright coming out again, Obama again took a hit but I think over time it appears that Obama is springing back.  His tracking poll is increasing in gallup and rasmussen and his polls in Indiana and North Carolina took a hit but they haven't gotten any worse.

I think what Obama must do over the next few weeks if vigorously push back with the stuff that he is doing right now by doing a lot of events that he appears very appealing such as family events, playing basketball in small town, etc.


by puma on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:59:11 AM EST

Re: Poll: Flap over pastor hurts Obama (none / 0)

This poll had some more entertaining Data.  Wright gave 33% of people a less favorable view of Obama.  Bill Clinton tied with Wright at 33% of people having a less favorable view due to him.  So Wright hurts Obama as much as Bill hurts Hillary.  While George Bush beat all with 38% having a less favorable opinion of McCain due to him.


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:28:28 AM EST


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