Joe Wilson, National Security, and Barack Obama [updated]

National security has "traditionally" been a repubican mantra, talking point, and perceived strength, that is until GWB lied us into a war on Iraq.  However, we are now seeing the erosion of the republican edge in security, and according to public opinion polls, the public now sees democrats  evenly or more "trusted" to deal with issues of national security.  

As a last line of defense (pun intended), the repugs nominate John McCain....who will run a campaign on national security and foreign threats in an attempt to keep attention away from issues at home. Therefore our candidate must be able to address these issues with equal force (pun intended again, as the repugs will wage war!) to disallow the republicans to win at this most critical juncture for our country.

The North Carolina News and Observer featured an article today by Joe Wilson called "Legitimate Questions of Judgment, Experience" that is relevant as North Carolinans consider their vote on Tuesday.

The article does a frank assessment of the potential damage Wright has done to Obama with regard to National Security issues, raising once again the "judgment" issues that the Obama campaign would like to dismiss as a "distraction". http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/columns/story/1060220.html Wilson:

Obama's campaign has been built upon his supposed transcendent qualities and intuitive judgment. His foreign policy experience is limited to having lived in Indonesia between the ages of 6 and 10, and having traveled overseas briefly as a college student. He further claims that a speech he gave against the war in Iraq six years ago to extremely liberal supporters in a campaign for state senator in Illinois is sufficient proof of his superior judgment in national security matters and qualifies him to be president and commander-in-chief of U.S. Armed Forces at a time when we are fighting two extraordinarily difficult wars. As with his relationship with Wright, a closer examination is warranted.

While Senator Obama has been hugely critical of Clinton's vote on the AUMF, he has repeatedly stated that had he been in the Senate at the time, he didn't know how he would have voted. And he asserts that because of Clinton's AUMF vote, that he is more qualified to be President.  

Wilson sets the record straight:

Unlike Obama, as the last acting U.S. ambassador to Iraq during the first Gulf War, I was deeply involved in that debate from the beginning.President Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell made it clear publicly and in their representations to Congress that the authorization was not to go to war but rather to give the president the leverage he needed to go to the United Nations to reinvigorate international will to contain and disarm Saddam Hussein, consistent with the resolutions passed at the time of the first Gulf War.

There is no doubt that American pressure through the AUMF allowed the inspectors to return.

The "betrayal" that led to war was, in Wilson's view, not the responsibility of HRC's and Congress' vote, but of President Bush:

when Bush refused to allow the inspectors to complete their work and decided preemptively to invade, conquer and occupy Iraq....that decision [to go to war] and power was his alone -- not the Congress' and certainly not Hillary Clinton's. Obama is wrong to turn Bush's war into Clinton's responsibility.

The article goes on to identify the key weaknesses in Obama's foreign policy/national security credentials that require he obtain more experience.

Whether one agrees with this article or not, if Obama is the nominee these questions are going to come up. It seems to me that his supporters, and all democrats who will support him in the GE, might want to identify ways to assist him, including VP choices and why.  That is the reason for bringing this diary forward today.

Remember that "slogans" and "insults",dismissing arguments, people and perspectives through crude remarks, and comparisons with HRC are not an option for you in the GE vs. McCain.  In fact rudeness has a way of envigorating one's opponents!

Well, what are your ideas to help Senator Obama? Care to help us all by spelling it out?

UPDATE. No one who responded to this diary came up with anything to help Obama. Instead, the commenters ripped Joe Wilson, attacked and insulted HRC, and generally participated in a pretty vitriolic tirade against the messenger. So it looks like Obama supporters would rather attack HRC than help their candidate. Truly sad, and unfortunate for our party.
Poll
What's the best course for Obama?
Vice President selection
Early announcement of key cabinet selections
Military surrogates
Attacking McCain
comprehensive military policy
Discussing how the Iraq war has drained the military and treasury

Votes: 11
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Joe Wilson is shill for Hillary (2.00 / 2)

Not an objective analyst... and that wasn't an "article" it was an "op-ed column". No need to argue his points, they aren't facts just opinion.


by Tatan on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:18:25 PM EST

dismiss at your own peril (2.00 / 2)

you wont have that luxury in the GE.


by 4justice on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:22:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you wont have that luxury in the GE? (2.00 / 3)

Sure we will. When a partisan makes a statement of pure opinion it will be just as easy to dismiss it as a partisan's opinion.


by Tatan on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson is shill for Hillary (2.00 / 1)

Joe was one of the first to debunk Bush's rationale for war and he took some hits over it. He's signed on with Hillary, but he has good reasons, as do those of us who prefer her and want her to be our nom.  She's been working with Joe and many others for years, on the senate armed services committee, and in her liaison job with the military. If Obama is the nom he'd be a fool to dismiss Joe's unique perspective simply because he sees he as the most rational choice.  Today Barack said that he thought Hillary made a mistake saying she'd retaliate in kind if Iran nukes Israel, but said he'd also respond, only he didn't want to be specific. He thought her specificity was the mistake. But in Dr. Strangelove as we all recall the problem was that the doomsday machine was a secret.  Does he want Iran to think they could maybe get away with using nuclear weapons?  He needs a much smarter foreign policy staff, and he'd do well to recruit Joe Wilson.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:58:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson is shill for Hillary (2.00 / 3)

I give Wilson and his wife a lot of credit for what they went through, and he was known as a solid foreign policy officer.

But his article is full of half truths in attacking BO and supporting HRC.  Most importantly, he does not discuss the Levin amendment, which was the rubber-hits-the-road moment for all those who wished to push Bush to continue the inspection regime.  HRC voted against it and has never adequately explained here rationale.  And Wilson skips it completely.  


by Kensingtonbill on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:38:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then I guess I knew more than Hilary (2.00 / 1)

Because I was appalled at the AUMF and I was completely and wholeheartedly against this war from the beginning...and I knew that Bush was going to take us there with that vote.  Me.  A stupid regular person.  Not a politician.  Not privvy to whatever information legislators get.

And it ain't about being against any war, 'cause you are looking at an ex-Medic who was against the first Iraq war, for the Afghani war and appalled by Iraq II, "Junior's Revenge."


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:20:48 PM EST

did you read the diary? (2.00 / 2)

or do  you still blame HRC and HRC alone for the diary?  

You're not having this luxury in the GE.  Why don't you help your candidate?  Or is the only way you can help him is to bash HRC?


by 4justice on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: did you read the diary? (2.00 / 2)

What luxury won't we have in the G.E.? The majority of people in the U.S. thinks we should have never gone into Iraq, the majority of people in the U.S. thinks we're on the wrong track, and now the majority of people in the U.S. are identifying themselves as Democrats. So with the odds in our favor you think we should put forth the candidate who voted for the war?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:30:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: did you read the diary? (2.00 / 1)

A PLURALITY of people in the U.S. are now identifying as Democrats.  That's quite different from a majority.  Also, since Obama's been funding the continuation of the Iraq war, he does have weaknesses on this point.  Being anti-AUMF is insufficient, by itself, to convince enough people to vote for someone to be president.  If you don't believe me, just watch what happens in November.


by Montague on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: did you read the diary? (2.00 / 1)

How exactly is stripping soldiers of necessary equipment a political winner of a move?

I realize it is popular to believe that cutting off funding would force Bush's hand and end the war... And it would, eventually... after he had stripped the military of every option except withdrawel... And would daily blame Democrats for any and all casualties and difficulties they face...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She was supposed to say to Bush: 'Don't Invade, (2.00 / 1)

Period,' once the UN results started comign in. She was instead cheerleading Bush.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then I guess I knew more than Hilary (2.00 / 1)

Well let me assure you that since you as a "stupid regular person"  and Barack Obama think alike, I don't want a "stupid regular person" in charge of my and this country's security.


by alvic63 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson, National Security, and Bara (2.00 / 1)

While Senator Obama has been hugely critical of Clinton's vote on the AUMF, he has repeatedly stated that had he been in the Senate at the time, he didn't know how he would have voted.

he stated those comments at the time john kerry and edwards (who voted for AUMF) were vying for the presidency (and vp, obviously). it wouldnt look good questioning the judgement of your own party's candidates as they are trying to win an election


by aaaa05 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:31:19 PM EST

Re: Joe Wilson, National Security, and Bara (2.00 / 1)

So he pandering for political gain? I thought that was supposed to be a bad thing.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson, National Security, and Bara (2.00 / 1)

he pandering == he was pandering


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:20:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson, National Security, and Bara (none / 0)

if by pandering you mean refraining from bashing the dem. nominee and saying something that wouldnt help him politically, than yea he was pandering


by aaaa05 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:35:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The war (2.00 / 1)

"he has repeatedly stated that had he been in the Senate at the time, he didn't know how he would have voted"

Please cite MULTIPLE instances where he has said this.  I am aware of ONE instance on Meet the Press where he was questioned about whether he would criticize John Kerry (at that time his party's nominee) for not recognizing that there was no case for the Iraq War.  Here's what he said:

''But, I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports,'' Mr. Obama said. ''What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made.''

Now if later we were to find out that Bush actually had shown Kerry and Clinton hard evidence supporting a war in Iraq, we might be justified in believing that Obama may have voted the same way they did.  What we actually know, however, is that there was no such evidence, so Obama's "vantage point" was no less informed than Clinton's and he should be given credit for standing against a dumb war that would have disasterous American consequences.  See Linc Chafee's book:

As Mr. Bush pressed insistently for war, Chafee requested a meeting with CIA brass to examine the evidence against Saddam Hussein's regime. "Sooner or later, I have to vote on this war, show me everything you have," Chafee requests of the CIA.

"What they had, I discovered as the meeting stretched into an hour, was next to nothing," recalls Chafee. "They showed me what they had with little comment and no enthusiasm. Someone handed me one of the infamous aluminum tubes, the kind we were told Saddam was using to enrich weapons-grade uranium while plotting mushroom clouds over America, the `smoking gun' that Condoleezza Rice warned about.

"I looked at the aluminum tube, looked at the analysts and thought, I can go buy one of these at Adler's Hardware," the Providence hardware emporium, writes Chafee.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:31:39 PM EST

Chafee is great (none / 0)

If the Republicans are smart, they'll look to people like him and Sarah Palin as the future of their party.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:39:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chafee is great (2.00 / 1)

I sense that Chafee may ultimately switch parties and I would not be surprised to see him in Obama's administration (along with Hagel perhaps).  I agree, he's one of the good ones.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Poor Joe (2.00 / 1)

Wilson is in the uncomfortable position of attacking the person who believed him in 2002 and defending the person who didn't heed his warning.

All Obama has to do to stay competative in the general election is continue to hammer on McCain's war vote and continuation of the Bush economic policies while keeping his own nose clean.  I would imagine that we've heard from pretty much all the slander machines at this point, and if Wright or Ayers is the best they've got, the Republicans are in serious trouble.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:31:47 PM EST

Re: Poor Joe (2.00 / 1)

It's funny, but whenever I read Amb. Wilson's writing or see him speak, he does not appear to be uncomfortable supporting Sen. Clinton. Nor does he seem to be drugged, hypnotized, or under duress. As far as I can tell, he favors Clinton over Obama for the simple reason that Wilson thinks she would be a better President that Obama would. If that concept makes you uncomfortable, do not project it onto Wilson. As for who was on his side in 2002, Wilson is an adult, and is willing to put aside any petty feelings about payback, and look at the whole person. He has clearly chosen Hillary.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:37:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton's Foreign Policy (2.00 / 1)


   experience is limited mostly to visiting ambassadors, attending funerals and giving speeches.

  No one is arguing that Obama has more experience...but Clinton trying to paint herself as a warrior is also a bit silly.


by southernman on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:32:02 PM EST

Thread hijack (2.00 / 1)

The diarist specifically asked for a discussion of what Obama can do to shore up his foreign policy cred in the GE. The diarist specifically stated that comparisons with Clinton were not relevant, because comparisons with Clinton will only fly in the primary.

Lets try your approach on for size with the Republicans as an example.

Dems: McCain's FP approach is batshit insane.

Reps: Well, Guiliani's FP was way more batshit insane than McCain's is.

southernman: Yeah, I guess that is true. Never mind.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson, National Security, and Barack Obam (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, after numerous hit pieces that got more ridiculous with each iteration, I'm not sure I can give much credence to Mr. Wilson's opinion, apparent in its bias.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:34:38 PM EST

Joe Wilson is right on! (2.00 / 3)

I don't for a minute buy into any assumption that Obama will be the nominee. That'd be the most dreadful outcome of this nominating process because he'd lose to McCain.

Hillary knows what to do about national security and foreign policy. Obama's attitudes and assumptions are those of a dangerous neophyte.


by Nobama on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:39:39 PM EST

Re: Joe Wilson is right on! (2.00 / 1)

I don't buy for a second that McCain is s strong as you seem to believe him to be...

Nor do I buy for a second that anyone short of ardent Clinton supporters would accept her foreign policy chops as a selling point in a race against McCain.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:50:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson is right on! (2.00 / 1)

Thank the lord you do not control the nomination process (for good reason it seems)


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:50:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson is right on! (2.00 / 1)

"Hillary knows what to do about national security and foreign policy."

I grant you, Hillary knows domestic policy better than most but the conduct manifesting her foreign policy philosophy is at times indistinguishable from Bush's and other neocons.  AUMF, Kyle-Lieberman, refusing to negotiate with rogue nations-- these are acts that indicate that Hillary most assuredly DOES NOT know what to do about national security.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:52:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton didn't read the NIE before voting for (2.00 / 1)

the war, and despite what the UN inspectors were saying, cheerled Bush into an invasion, including this:


    March 17, 2003

   Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the President's Remarks to the Nation

   When the President of the United States addresses the nation about possible military action, it is a solemn occasion for every American. Tonight, the President gave Saddam Hussein one last chance to avoid war, and the world hopes that Saddam Hussein will finally hear this ultimatum, understand the severity of those words, and act accordingly. While we wish there were more international support for the effort to disarm Saddam Hussein, at this critical juncture it is important for all of us to come together in support of our troops and pray that, if war does occur, this mission is accomplished swiftly and decisively with minimum loss of life and civilian casualties. I have had the honor of meeting and speaking with many of our brave men and women in uniform. They are the best trained, equipped, and motivated military in the entire world, we support them fully and we are grateful for their courageous service in these difficult times.


where the "ultimatum" she was referring to was this:

Bush: 'Leave Iraq within 48 hours'

   Monday, March 17, 2003

   All the decades of deceit and cruelty have now reached an end. Saddam Hussein and his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours. Their refusal to do so will result in military conflict commenced at a time of our choosing.


Then there was her event with Code Pink:

Whereas, in March 2003, Obama was still trying to trying to do what he could to prevent an invasion:

   MAR 2003: Obama Said It's Not Too Late To Stop The War. "State Sen. Barack Obama (D-Chicago) told the crowd, `It's not too late' to stop the war." (Chicago Sun- Times, 3/17/03)

   MAR 2003: Obama Challenged Other Candidates To Take A Position On Iraq War. The AP wrote, "Barack Obama is criticizing the idea of war against Iraq and challenging his Democratic opponents in the U.S. Senate race to take a stand on the question...Issuing the challenge at a weekend speech in Champaign, Obama said he does not oppose war if it's necessary. But he believes Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein poses no immediate threat and that, with Iraq's economy in shambles, he can be "contained" until internal pressures force him out...Obama said candidates wishing to unseat Republican Sen. Peter Fitzgerald in 2004 should speak up now as the Bush administration moves closer to using military force against Iraq. `What's tempting is to take the path of least resistance and keep quiet on the issue, knowing that maybe in two or three or six months, at least the fighting will be over and you can see how it plays itself out,' said Obama, a state senator from Chicago." (AP, 3/3/2003)


All the links and more here: Dumb Wars Blog

It's pathetic how far Wilson has sunk with his cronyism. Here is the pits: "Obama's long and close relationship with the anti-American hate-monger Wright". What the hell does Wright's bullshit have to do with Obama whose foreign policy positions through the years are out there for everyone to see?

Maybe he's harboring a hope to be her VP or a cushy job in her administration. Seems that HRC sent Rendell, Bayh, Wilson etall on a game of musical chairs for the VP spot.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:39:55 PM EST

Nappy time (1.80 / 5)

Hey, look, another anti-Obama editorial from Joe Wil-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


by Rumproast on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:40:37 PM EST

Re: Nappy time (2.00 / 3)

Joe Wilson and his wife are very good Americans.  I would even say his wife is a great American - she laid her life on the line being a convert agent in the CIA.  Joe Wilson called BS on Bush's yellow cake lie. and his wife paid the ultimate price, being betrayed by the same country which she was defending.

and yet, you dismiss his opinion by making a childish statement?  


by colebiancardi on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:53:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nappy time (2.00 / 1)

He's not dismissing what Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame did in regards to the Nigeria story. He's pointing that Joe is not exactly an impartial observer in these matters, and is instead a Clinton partisan... who has repeatedly attacked Senator Obama with half truths and innuendo. It's not worth debating the points of his op-ed, because he's not dealing in facts but rather in opinion. We got it Joe, you prefer Hillary. Move on.


by Tatan on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nappy time (2.00 / 1)

wrong.  All that poster did was insult Wilson - did you miss this:
Joe Wil-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

by colebiancardi on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nappy time (2.00 / 1)

did you miss this part:

Hey, look, another anti-Obama editorial from...


by Tatan on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:47:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nappy time (2.00 / 1)

nope and if the poster left it there, I wouldn't have called it childish.

he resorted to name-calling a man who had the balls to write an op-ed about the lies from BushCo and whose wife was outed by the Bush Administration  as retaliation.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nappy time (none / 0)

All he did was say that this op-ed was yet another in a long series of op-ed's just like it from Wilson. That it's no longer interesting. We get that Joe likes Hill better. The point has been made.

That isn't a back handed way of dismissing his service to the country, or his admirable effort to hold Bush accountable for his lies. I'm sure we would all commend him for that. It is in the spirit of that accounting that I support Barack Obama. A man who way back in 2002 had the will, courage and fortitude to take the same stand against Bush and his cohorts. I wish Joe Wilson had seen it the same way I have, but I respect his choices. However we must also weigh his bias and interests into what he says in his op-ed. He's shilling for Hill here not acting as an honest broker. That's his right as it is mine to call him out for it.


by Tatan on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:47:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nappy time (2.00 / 1)

I hope I am wrong, but it sounds like you are saying that the fact Wilson prefers Clinton cancels out his status as an expert on the middle east and his record of service to the country. Yes, it is his opinion that Clinton would make a better President than Obama - his expert opinion.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:51:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nappy time (none / 0)

Firstly he's not a expert on the middle east. He is a former ambassador to Niger. Which is why he was asked to investigate the rumored sale of yellow cake from there. So not a middle east expert but rather a former political Clinton appointee, with some experience in diplomatic affairs in Niger (which is in Africa, btw).

Therefore he's not offering his 'expert' opinion, but rather his political opinion. An opinion he's certainly entitled to, but it's just that... an opinion. No better than my own, or yours, or anyone else's.

As for his service to the country... it is admirable. I thank him for his service. But the fact that it has been largely at the behest and benefit of the Clinton's (they were the one's after all who appointed him to his diplomatic post in Niger) dissolves him of any claim to impartiality. Making his opinion (in this case) that of a partisan. Someone with a dog in the fight, who is not evaluating facts to come to an honest conclusion, but rather someone who is selectively using half-truths, innuendo and confusion to the benefit of his cause.


by Tatan on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:25:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nappy time (2.00 / 1)

Joe Wilson and his wife are very good Americans.  I would even say his wife is a great American - she laid her life on the line being a convert agent in the CIA.  Joe Wilson called BS on Bush's yellow cake lie. and his wife paid the ultimate price, being betrayed by the same country which she was defending.

and yet, you dismiss his opinion by making a childish statement?  


by colebiancardi on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, what are Hillary's nat'l security highlights? (2.00 / 3)

1. Dodging sniper fire in Bosnia - false

  1. Negotiating border openings in Macedonia and peace in Ireland - false and exaggerated
  2. Suggesting intervention in Rwanda - false
  3. Voting to authorize Iraq, then saying it wasn't really an authorization to go to war
  4. Voting to give Bush power to provoke conflict in Iran
  5. Provoking diplomatic crisis by suggesting she will obliterate Iran

Meanwhile, Obama was right about  

  1. Iraq - not only in the cost in money, but in diverting attention away from the War on Terror
  2. Pakistan - we had all of our eggs in the Musharraf basket and look where he took us
  3. Diplomacy - the only way that we will ever have leverage with the Iranians is to meet them face to face - when we did that with NKorea we began to see results. When the Europeans did it with Libya they got major results.  


by highgrade on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:48:58 PM EST

Re: OK, what are Hillary's nat'l security highligh (2.00 / 1)


 But if Iran attacks Israel, he will negotiate with them and on the other side he would unilaterally bomb Pakistan.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you're either an idiot or just being dishonest (none / 0)

Typical GOP spin. Congratulations on joining the Freeper club.

Everyone knows that an attack by Iran on Israel would involve retaliation by both Israel and the US. The reason HIllary sounds like such an amateur is because this is already understood by all sides. Spouting off that you're going to obliterate another nation is unnecessary diplomatic hysteria. It's like Bush saying "Bring 'em on!" That shit belongs on an elementary school playground, not in the White House.

Regarding Pakistan, are you saying that if Hillary is president and we have actionable intelligence on bin Laden and Pakistan refuses to act on it, that she will just sit idly by and allow him to continue to live and plan more attacks? That doesn't sound like someone who has crossed the "commander in chief threshold."  


by highgrade on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:26:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're either an idiot or just being dishonest (2.00 / 2)


 Thats his words. Quit trying to bring HRC into statements made by your woefully lacking candidate. As far as being a freeper, I have belonged the Democratic party since before you where born and need no direction from you.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:14:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, what are Hillary's ... (2.00 / 1)

The subject is Obama's perceived FP weakness, and what to do about it in the GE.

Lets try your approach on for size with the Republicans as an example.

Dems: McCain's FP approach is batshit insane.

Reps: Well, Guiliani's FP was way more batshit insane than McCain's is.

highgrade: Yeah, I guess that is true. Never mind.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If I hadn't known any better.. (1.33 / 3)

..I would've said this article was written by a Republican, but...oh wait, Joe Wilson IS a Republican!! Oh well, I don't fault him. I guess he is standing up for a fellow Republican, Hillary.  


by ETHIOLIB on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:12:13 PM EST

Re: Joe Wilson, National Security.... (2.00 / 1)

I respect Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame, however, Joe seems to be cherry picking here and that Wright comment has nothing to do with foreign policy.  

I'm surprised he favors someone who voted for the war, over someone who was outspoken against it.


by chewie5656 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:29:03 PM EST

of course Wright doesn't have (none / 0)

anything to do with foreign policy.  The issue is Obama's judgment and how that might play out in foreign policy.  Read the article.


by 4justice on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:46:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: of course Wright doesn't have (none / 0)

Did the article mention Hillary voting for the war?


by chewie5656 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:46:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I guess you didn't read the article (none / 0)

you should have the judgment to read and absorb the subject--and the diary--before you spout off any uninformed opinions.  You entirely missed the point of the diary.


by 4justice on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:12:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson, National Security, and Barack Obam (2.00 / 1)

Wilson's position is confusing.  I never had any doubts that we were about to go to war in Iraq, and I find the implication that we were all tricked into war pretty disingenuous.  The American people were tricked.  They trusted in Congress to know the facts and to offer a well-reasoned resistance to this war if it was unjust.  Congress folded.  There was not much real resistance, and so the American people were never "unsold" on the war.  

But I'm not sure I understand why Obama needs "help" on this issue.  As far as the "end the war" crowd goes, he had more credibility than any Democrat running, with the exception of Congressman Kucinich, who took the additional step of voting against the war.  If the race becomes about the war, then Obama has already won, and an attempt to weaken HIS position is desperation from McCain and politically stupid, since he'd be bringing up a position on which the American people and he tend to disagree.  

But, I DO think Obama could be helped with someone like Clark as his VP nominee.  The use of force WHEN NECESSARY is exemplified by Clark's service, and he'd be a remarkable contrast with McCain.  McCain's service is admirable and should be honored, but there's a reason why Clark was the general, and not McCain.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:46:41 PM EST

Re: Joe Wilson, National Security, and Barack Obam (2.00 / 1)

First of all, thank you for trying to discuss the ideas the diarist wanted to discuss.

You may not agree that Obama's lack of FP experience is a problem, but I hope you can agree that it is perceived as a problem by a good share of the electorate.

I like Clark fine, but I would not pick him for VP solely for his FP and military cred. If he has the best overall package of things needed for a good VP pick, then plugging a perceived policy hole is a plus. But he could fill the policy hole just as well as a pre-announced cabinet pick - SecDef comes to mind, or NSA.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:21:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Wilson, National Security, and Barack Obam (2.00 / 1)

I'm not privy to the type of polling campaigns will do to make those picks, but I do see Clark helping Obama, should it pan out that way.  

No matter who our nominee is, I'd like to see a role for Wes Clark.  And, yes, he'd make a heluva SecDef.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

good point, thank you. (none / 0)

I like Clark for Sec Defense

and thanks for seeing this diary and its purpose!


by 4justice on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:16:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Congratulations and Thank You (none / 0)

You are the first commentor that at least tried to answer the question here...like I said, disagree with the article or not, but what solutions are proposed.  I assume you voted in the poll above, thank you.

Sounds like the VP is a key spot for you...I like Clark, but wonder if another postion would be better?


by 4justice on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:15:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The diarist's intent was: (2.00 / 2)

to start a discussion wherein we identify ways to fix (actual and perceived) weaknesses in Obama's foreign policy/national security credentials.

So far, I have seen numerous attempts to hijack the thread, and precious little discussion of the intended subject. So here's my try.

If Obama gets the nom, I think he could shore up his foreign policy credentials by lining up some top talent and well known names that he could pre-announce as his proposed appointments at the cabinet level and just below. This would not only add to people's comfort level that he will have a seasoned team, it will help him to hit the ground running in 2009, as his top people will already be in place by election time, and can get a good jump on the transition process. It is essential that we move all the Bush political appointees OUT as quickly as possible, before they have a chance to do any further damage. In fact, I hope Clinton would do something similar if she gets the nom.

It may sound odd given the current level of hostilities, but I think the Clintons could and would be very helpful in persuading any former Clinton admin. officials to sign on. I have a few names in mind, but I will withhold them to avoid provoking a fight over the specific names, rather than the concept.

I do not think the VP choice would be a good way to build FP credibility for a couple of reasons. First, if Obama were to pick a well known name with a lot of FP experience, (Biden for example) it might actually serve to make his own lack of FP experience stand out more in comparison. Secondly, it might raise uncomfortable echos of Bush-Cheney, causing people to wonder just how much control over FP would wind up in the VPs hands in an Obama administration. There are lots of factors to consider when picking the VP, and shoring up a perceived policy weakness is only one of them.

As for attacking McCain, I think that is a given. McCain is widely perceived among the general public to have FP "gravitas". This is what I think Clinton meant by her poorly worded statement about meeting the C in C threshhold. Nearly all here agree that the public perception of McCain's FP credibility is wrong - but let us have no illusions - it will take a lot of work to puncture that myth, especially because it is one so cherished by the MSM. Luckily, we have a great weapon against McCain in this area. His own mouth.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:13:26 PM EST

Thanks for these comments! (none / 0)

I like the idea of several pre-announced cabinet positions to signal readiness and high credibility.  

You also bring up a good point on letting the Clinton's assist in signing people up with Obama.  Given HRC's pledge to work for the nominee even if it is not her, this gift should not be ignored.

Finally I have to agree on selecting the VP for only foreign policy credentials.  

And attacking McCain, what can I say?  I surely like what you said:

fortunately we have a great weapon against McCain in this area: his own mouth.


by 4justice on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:23:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The best policy for Obama and the Democrats (2.00 / 2)

is for him to QUIT.


by nikkid on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:24:58 AM EST


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