Obama's No We Can't Politics -UPDATED-

hopebegone Cross posted at: Pagan Power

Barack Obama has no shame. He will look you right in the eye and lie to your face with a big grin. And he won't even think about the consequences his lies have upon your life. Because with Barack Obama only one thing is important. Power. And he will resort to every trick in the book to get it. As you know, Obama opposes the gas tax holiday proposed by McCain and Hillary. And for convenience sake Obama decides to lump the two proposals together even though they are not only separate; one is responsible (Hillary) and one is not (McCain.) Then he uses the job loss card to scare Indiana voters into rejecting a proposal that will benefit each of their families. Because according to Barack Obama, if the people of Indiana support Hillary's plan to give tax relief to working families it will cost Indiana 6000 jobs.

Obama's Prepared Remarks for Indiana Presser

Just this morning, there was an article in the paper about how the real beneficiaries of this tax holiday would be the oil companies, who'd walk away with billions more in profits.

Meanwhile, unless you can magically impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies overnight to pay for the holiday, it could imperil federal highway funding, and cost Indiana more than 6,000 jobs.

So in one fell swoop, in a single sentence Obama manages to distort the purpose of the tax holiday and twist it around to make it appear as if Hillary is doing this to reward Big Oil. And there can only be one reason for doing that. He doesn't want the people of Indiana to realize how well financed he is by BIG OIL. And he sure doesn't want them to remember that it was him that voted for the Bush-Cheney-Obama Energy Bill that gave these huge profits to BIG OIL to begin with.

And then in the next sentence Obama manages to belittle the proposal because in his opinion Congress is not going to act to help the people of Indiana and across America. So what does this say of his well known claims that he is the best experienced person to bring people together to get beyond partisanship and Washington as usual politics?

Because Washington as usual politics lets all hell break loose before doing a single thing to correct it. Just where is Senator Obama's leadership and mythical skills he claims every single day to possess? They sure aren't being applied to helping ordinary Americans cope with this horrible economy and toothless Congress.

What strikes me the most is how Republican Obama's attitude is. After all, aren't Republicans the ones that adamantly insist that shifting tax breaks from corporations to ordinary Americans will cost jobs. I am sure I have heard them say that at least 500 times in my lifetime. At a minimum. Maybe this is one of the things Obama admires about Republicans that he didn't tell Chris Wallace. Because now that he is a millionaire he believes that us lesser folk should be able to live on the scraps that the elite leave behind for us.

Hillary has it right when she stands up straight and strong and asks: Are they with us or against us?

Clinton to Congress: You're either with us or against us

"I believe it would be important to get every member of Congress on record," Clinton told supporters at a rally in southern Indiana. "Do they stand with the hard-pressed Americans who are trying to pay their gas bills at the gas station or do they once again stand with the oil companies?

"I want to know where people stand and I want them to tell us, are they with us or against us when it comes to taking on the oil companies?"

And while Obama will stand back and demean the benefits of this tax relief and then add that there is no consensus in Congress to pass it, Hillary does what leaders do. She leads. Today she introduced the legislation.

Clinton Presses on Gas Tax Holiday

Mrs. Clinton introduced legislation in the Senate today proposing the gas tax holiday and covering the cost of it through a "windfall profits" tax on oil companies, a campaign spokesman said.

Because that is what leaders do. They take a stand that they know is just, even against impossible odds. And when everyone counts them out they press on and do what is right. For to lead you must be in touch with the needs of the electorate. And you have to have vision.

Clinton To Introduce Legislation For Federal Gas Tax Holiday

"I imagine that President Bush will be against it. Anything that goes against the oil companies you can count on the two oil men in the White House being against, that kind of is something we've gotten used to. But we've got to be prepared, and we've got to take the case. And we've got to do everything we can to try to get some changes out of congress. Then we've got to get really in position when finally we have a new president next January to get serious about overcoming all of our energy costs and our challenges."

People like Senator Obama claim to represent change but come to Washington and play all the same Washington games. They take no bold steps, they ignore the less fortunate because they can't finance their campaign and they say NO WE CAN'T anytime anyone tries to break the well hardened Washington politics as usual mold.

Obama's Negative Can't Do Attitude

But Senator Clinton does have some support for her plan in Congress. After all, the person who first proposed it was John McCain. So I guess when she says "are you with us or against us" - Senator Clinton is referring to her and John McCain. That's one vote she's got, because on this issue, Hillary Clinton and John McCain are reading from the same political playbook.

That is a prime example of Washington as usual politics. When someone offers a proposal that helps ordinary people and helping ordinary people would piss off some of your biggest contributors the only way you can respond is to tear the person down. And Senator Obama does that very well. Because he doesn't want people to remember who HE is and what HE has done.

On Hillary's Gas-Tax "Holiday"

Where were Obama supporters when he took tens of thousands of dollars from the Exelon (nuclear power) Corporation, and subsequently helped kill an amendment in Congress that would have spiked millions of dollars in loan guarantees for the company--loans that Taxpayers for Common Sense and Citizens Against Government Waste called "one of the worst provisions in this massive piece of legislation"?

Where were Obama supporters when he backed Joe Lieberman over Ned Lamont, contributing $4,200 to Lieberman's campaign?

Where were Obama supporters when he pushed big subsidies (including the "Obama amendment," offering oil companies a 50 percent tax credit for building gas stations offering the E85 ethanol blend) for corn ethanol production in Congress--calling corn ethanol "a clean, renewable, and domestically produced alternative fuel"? For that matter, where were they when he voted for 2005's corporate-welfare energy bill?

Where were Obama supporters when he backed "clean" coal initiatives as part of the "clean energy revolution"?

Where were they when he enthusiastically picked up an endorsement from Big Coal's biggest lobbyist?

Senator Obama had no problem whatsoever of voting for a gas tax holiday when he was in the Illinois Senate. What he now claims is Washington as usual politics was certainly good enough for the citizens of Illinois.

Obama Dismisses Gas Tax Holiday

Obama took a different view on the issue when he was an Illinois legislator, voting at least three times in favor of temporarily lifting the state's 5 percent sales tax on gasoline.

The tax holiday was finally approved during a special session in June of 2000, when Illinois motorists were furious that gas prices had just topped $2 a gallon in Chicago.

During one debate, he joked that he wanted signs on gas pumps in his district to say, "Senator Obama reduced your gasoline prices."

So one has to ask: If Senator Obama was so certain that the gas tax holiday was of no value to the citizens of Illinois why did he vote for it not once but three times? Is it because it actually helped his constituents or is it because he is well versed and experienced in the Washington business as usual politics that he now pretends to distance himself from?

Senator Obama claims that the gas tax holiday in Illinois didn't work. But the facts do not support his contention. Instead, the facts are inconclusive.

But the impact of the tax holiday was never clear. A government study could not determine how much of the savings was passed along to motorists. Many lawmakers said their constituents didn't seem to have benefited. They also worried the tax break was pushing the state budget out of balance.

You know, Hillary gets it. She understands that we need to think long term. But in the meantime something needs to be done NOW to relieve the real pressures that ordinary Americans face in their daily lives.

Will Voters Accept Obama's Gas Plea?

"Of course we need a long-term plan, but I'm not going to sit idly by and watch as independent truckers go out of business," Sen. Clinton said Wednesday at a rally in Kokomo, Ind. Thursday, after Exxon Mobil Corp. reported a 17% increase in first-quarter profit that fell short of investors' expectations, Sen. Clinton said in a statement: "There is something seriously wrong with our economy when Exxon's record $11 billion in quarterly profits are seen as a disappointment by Wall Street."

Promises to change Washington politics could be cold comfort to motorists as gas prices climb toward $4 a gallon. The price of regular, unleaded gasoline averaged $3.60 nationwide this week.

Hillary may not have all the answers. And yes, a savings of $70 isn't a lot to a family. But it is $70 more than they had from the inaction of Washington as usual politics.

"At least she's trying to do something," said Jason Allen Wilfing, a factory foreman whom Sen. Clinton accompanied on a trip to a gas station in South Bend, Ind., Wednesday.

Amen brother. Thank goodness someone is.

I don't know about the rest of you but I can't support a candidate that speaks of hope and change but when it comes right down to making decisions he sides with the status quo and says NO WE CAN'T.

Bobby Kennedy was a great American and one of my heroes. He uttered the following words. They are the REAL politics of hope and change and they exemplify the CAN DO attitude that Hillary has made the centerpiece of her campaign. It is no wonder that Robert Kennedy Jr. has wholeheartedly endorsed Hillary Clinton for President.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?  
Robert Francis Kennedy



Display:


Thank god we have Hillary (2.00 / 2)

She always tells the truth! So does Bill!

This Barack Obama is just a big liar.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:31:18 PM EST

Re: Thank god we have Hillary (2.00 / 1)

You're going to claim that Bill always tells the truth? Just wondering then...why did he lose his law license?  And Hillary -- why did she say she was under sniper fire?

This has to be snark.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank god we have Hillary (none / 0)

Why did Barack did not denounced Rev Wright, but he throw his grandma under the bus; but when the polls started going down; he decided Rev Wright was wrong...  what does it tells you??  You don't even know that man!


by SHIBAM8P on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:14:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank god we have Hillary (none / 0)

I don't think they ever care.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:29:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank god we have Hillary (none / 0)

Normally when you try to explain a change in what someone says, you look to see if anything different happened.

And in this case, well, Wright made a number of appearances including a rather rancid Q & A at the press club where he made claims about Obama's views that he had not before.

With this change, Obama responded differently.

Frankly, there's nothing surprising about that.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank god we have Hillary (none / 0)

Yes, The only thing that had not been said before was that Obama was a politician....How dare you call me that?!?  That's offensive!  Begone!

Right....or is that Wright?


by Mags on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:53:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He is no Bobby (2.00 / 1)

that is for sure.  In fact I'd take his Clone Deval Patrick over Obama.  At least he has experience.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:32:03 PM EST

Re: He is no Bobby (2.00 / 3)

They are both black and they had the same consultant. That means they are clones. They all look the same!


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He is no Bobby (1.00 / 1)

Wow.  You're brilliant!


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He is no Bobby (none / 0)

Seriously... take your racism elsewhere. It is not welcome in this diary.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:30:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He is no Bobby (none / 0)

Hey -- You're the one for whom the proper comparison to Obama are black politicians and only black politicians -- Nutter and Patrick. Now that just calls out to me, kind of like Bill Clinton thinking Jesse Jackson in SC.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:42:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He is no Bobby (none / 0)

I would prefer Michael Nutter. He is an intelligent experienced politician that understands what it takes to accomplish change, not just talk about it.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

words matter, Obama. (2.00 / 1)

so do actions.  Easy to throw stones, but not so noble when you have absolutely no alternatives.


by 4justice on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:32:31 PM EST

Re: words matter, Obama. (2.00 / 2)

Why does Obama have to come up with alternatives to Hillary's useless plan that won't lower gas prices? You sound like Bush on Iraq. He destroys the country then demands that Democrats propose their own plan for fixing it. Hillary botches the gasoline issue, then demands that someone else deal with it.

There are no short term fixes, other than giving people a rebate check so they can afford gasoline and other commodities (Obama has proposed a $1000 tax credit for middle class and below).


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Did Obama support the $600 federal tax rebate?


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

I think so. I think almost everyone supported that.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (2.00 / 1)

And of course he has alternatives to Clinton's ridiculous idea. They're in his ads on the gas tax and on his web site and are discussed in newspaper articles.  Perhaps you could...do a little, you know, research.

Know Nothings for Hillary!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:08:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

No thanks. I am trying to cut down on hoodwinking.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:32:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Doing research is hoodwinking?  

Odd, that.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:42:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Not talking about what he'll do as President.  Talking about addressing an immediate need.

Know-it-alls for Obama!  Duh!


by Mags on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (2.00 / 1)

I've been waiting for days to hear Obama's solution to the present crisis. He just doesn't get that people are in need right now. He reminds me of George Bush the first who was so out of touch that he didn't know we were in a recession. In fact, I remember Obama saying how much he looks up to George Bush Sr.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Gas prices have been high for forever. Obama has a $1000 tax rebate plan. That gives people money for all sorts of things.

Hillary's plan would not lower prices. Are you arguing that it will?


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:03:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (2.00 / 1)

Where is Obama Tax Rebate Plan??   Just like what the good Rev said; He just saying stuff because he is a politician... Obama says thing to get elected... then later will throw Americans under the Bus.  He will sell America to the Saudi's and Iranians.

Please, do not vote for Obama!


by SHIBAM8P on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:19:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

"He will sell America to the Saudi's and Iranians"

Are you arguing that he's a Manchurian Candidate bent on world destruction? Fascinating.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Has Obama introduced legislation proposing this rebate program? And is it a rebate or a tax credit?

Lessee... ya take 18.4 cents off the cost of gasoline and you know what? It LOWERS the price of gasoline. Shame they didn't teach that in Harvard. Or maybe Obama just isn't using the correct side of his brain.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

"Lessee... ya take 18.4 cents off the cost of gasoline and you know what? It LOWERS the price of gasoline"

Good one. Actually not, it doesn't. You've never taken economics, obviously. Though you are giving me hope that Hillary's plan will be politically effective on ignorant voters.

Here's the recipe for NOT decreasing gas prices:

1. You make a big stink/PR effort about cutting the gas tax, and you change consumer behavior  and pump up demand.

2. Prices momentarily drop but just rise back up to their previous level (or higher) because you've pumped up demand.

3. Duh.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Right, because we're all going to go on driving binges when gas is lowered to $3.72/gal.  give me a break.


by Mags on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:58:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Exactly. These less than highly intelligent people don't understand human behavior at all.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:57:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Christ.

People change their behavior when they hear the gas price is going down.

And even if they don't, the gasoline companies demand more gas......


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 10:52:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Oh and "introducing legislation" has nothing to do with anything. Hillary's legislation won't pass.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Actually introducing legislation is what Senators do. That is their job.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:58:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: words matter, Obama. (none / 0)

Do you know anything?

To introduce legislation, you just drop it into the bill hopper. It doesn't take any effort.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 10:51:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (2.00 / 2)

"When someone offers a proposal that helps ordinary people and helping ordinary people would piss off some of your biggest contributors"

That is true. Most of Obama's biggest contributors (all of those millions of professionals out ther donating on the internet) have a college education. That means that they understand that gas prices will just float back up, and the extra profits will go to the oil companies. This will piss them off. They understand that Hillary's plan is political pandering at it's worst from one of the most hated politicians of our time.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:33:22 PM EST

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (2.00 / 1)

Well, I have a college education and I understand economics. I also understand when someone is trying to use some else as an excuse for inaction and status quo.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:01:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

You tend to not understand economics if you think Hillary's plan will cut gas prices.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:04:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

I mean, really.

When you have 150 economists and Bill clinton's former economic advisors and OMB Director and Budget Director, not to mention Nobel Laureates who all say it's a terrible idea -- and no policy experts and economists on the other side -- wouldn't you think that would give someone pause about parroting a candidate's talking points?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:21:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (2.00 / 1)

If you allow greedy bastards to set the price of gas they will squeeze every cent they can from hard working Americans. You got that right. I thought that Obama didn't support the status quo.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:38:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Ummm.

What does this have to do with greedy bastards setting a gas prices? why are you changing the subject?

We're talking about the gas tax here.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

I guess what Clinton supporters don't realize is that the price of gas is independent from the gas tax.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:04:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Ahhh, so that's why gas is no more expensive in Europe?


by therealdeal on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:19:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Yes. If you increase the tax by many dollars, tehn in teh long run, the price will settle at that level.

But the current market conditions mean that an 18 cent drop in the tax (whichi sn't set by supply or demand, but rather, the government) would just lead to a spike in the price right back up.

Don't argue with us. We have read books. You haven't.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:21:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Suspending an 18 cent tax has no impact, especially as the oil companies would likely just increase the cost and consumers would get no price reduction. That's what Bill Clinton's economic advisors and Nobel Laureates say.

As I'm sure you know, the gas taxes in Europe are significantly higher.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Wow, really?  It's independant? Wow.  So that means that if the gas taxes are suspended and the price of gas continues to rise ~ we'll still be paying less!  Do you suppose that doing nothing will keep the price static?  You are the 'smartest' after all, I mean I'm just a 'know nothing Hillary supporter.


by Mags on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

You are the brainiac that believes that lowering the price of gas 18.4 cents per gallon will increase demand for it so much that it will become higher than it was without the tax holiday. Yes, I do understand economics. What you fail to understand is human behavior. People are buying gas at these prices because they NEED the gas.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 06:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (2.00 / 1)

Actually Hillary is beloved by many people. That is why more Democrats support her than Obama.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

What is BO say at the last debate.  No one in my campaign has commented on Bosnia.  Then when he was called out as a liar he changes his statement to we were only answering quesitons about Bosnia.  

BO admits to lying on national TV and you wonder why his numbers are going down.  

daivd


by giusd on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:35:28 PM EST

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (2.00 / 3)

Do you see the irony of using the Bosnia issue to call **OBAMA** a liar???


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (1.00 / 1)

LOL. Good one.

Oh the HRC supporters are seriously out of their minds at this point.  Why do we even  bother arguing with them?


by sweet potato pie on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:39:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

It's a good question!  It's amusing yet maddening to see them cherry pick polls and repeat the same discredited talking points.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:41:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

I have fun on this site! So many chances for sarcasm. It's also very personally gratifying to get to criticize ACTUAL RACISTS on a daily basis!!

I mean - usually you'd have to go to a Republican site for that, but this site makes it really easy to get your daily dose of moral superiority that's just so hard to come by these days.


by Democratic Unity on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:46:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

LOL.

Shame on you for calling out racists! Shame!


by sweet potato pie on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:50:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Where did racism come into this diary? It certainly is not within the text of it.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

The only problem is that it's so damn easy when you're answering posts that who use virtually no evidence, show little knowledge of policy beyond pre-fed talking points, demonstrate a minimal understanding of political history, and which frequently lack logic.

Oh, what we Obama supporters must suffer.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Do you see the irony of calling Clinton a liar when Obama is pointed out to be a liar??


by Mags on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Silly robot (2.00 / 1)


by lombard on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:37:01 PM EST

Don't be silly. (2.00 / 1)

So in one fell swoop, in a single sentence Obama manages to distort the purpose of the tax holiday and twist it around to make it appear as if Hillary is doing this to reward Big Oil.

Clinton isn't proposing this unworkable, reckless, and doomed legislation to reward Big Oil, she's doing it to try to squeeze some votes from voters in Indiana and North Carolina, using time-honored Republican tax scare tactics.  

Her proposal WOULD reward Big Oil, to be sure; the oil companies know that demand will be up in the summer and they'll increase prices as much as they think we'll pay... and 18 cents is not going to make a difference when the price is already over $4.

She also knows that Bush will never sign it into law and Congress will not have the power to override the veto (particularly since both Democrats and Republicans have vested interests in it not passing).

Clinton is on her own with this one; her pandering is starting to get so obvious that not even the ridiculous "comeback" media narrative can insulate her from blowback.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:39:26 PM EST

Re: Don't be silly. (2.00 / 1)

I think she went too far with her "with us or against us" rhetoric yesterday -- pandering and authoritarianism with a hint of Bushian oversimplification mixed in -- with an approach sure to offend superdelegates and Democrats in Congress.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, it was odd (2.00 / 1)

Her strategy seems to be "keep winning primaries by whatever means necessary and then scare superdelegates into thinking that she's the only choice.

It's like if you're trying to choose between two contractors, then the more expensive contracter stabs the more moderate one.  Do you reward that?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:54:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't be silly. (2.00 / 1)

You sound like a bitter constituent that sees cynicism everywhere. has it ever occurred to you that just maybe a few politicians actually care about real people and their problems?


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, yes, it has. (none / 0)

I'm quite certain that Barack Obama actually cares about real people and their problems.  

It's not cynicism, it's realism.  HER. GAS. HOLIDAY. WON'T. WORK. EVER.

No economist, not even Krugman, who is in the tank for her, thinks its a good idea.  Democrats don't like it.  Republicans don't like it.  She's been lying to the populace in even inferring that it could ever come to pass.  McCain's idiotic pandering plan even has more chance of getting implemented because at least Bush wouldn't veto it, most likely.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:29:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who is against a windfall profits tax on big oil? (2.00 / 1)

Who, who is against this? And brilliant - tie it to savings to gas consumers. THis creates the political capital to pressure congressmen to vote for it.

No, we can't. It won't work. Why bother trying. Eeyore for president.


by catfish1 on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:10:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Everyone is against it (none / 0)

Except for Clinton supporters, there's nobody in favor of this.  Not Republicans.  Not Democrats.  Not economists.  Not Bush.

The closest to an expert Clinton can dig up in favor of her plan is an employee of Shell Oil.

Eyore's problem is that he sees no possibility.  Obama sees possiblity.  He's in favor of the oil company windfall tax, if it can get pushed through... but it can't.  Not until Bush is gone.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Everyone is against it (none / 0)

You need to get out more....


by Mags on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Flip Flopper (2.00 / 2)

Here's what Clinton said at her October 8, 2000 debate with Lazio: "[O]ne of my fundamental disagreements during this campaign with my opponent was when he called for the repeal of the gas tax. Now, the gas tax is one of those few taxes that New York actually gets more money from Washington than we send. And we are totally reliant on it to do things like finishing I-86 in the Southern Tier, or the fast- ferry harbor works up in Rochester, as well as the work we need to do here in the city. So you can count on me to support infrastructure."
And here's a June 28, 2000 Newsday clip: "Campaigning in the Hudson Valley, Lazio continued a two-day assault on Clinton's support of maintaining the 18-cent federal gas tax and then used tough rhetoric to declare that 'trust' and 'character' were campaign issues during an evening fundraiser in Manhattan that raised more that $1 million. Clinton, meanwhile, lashed out at Lazio's plan to repeal 4.3 cents of the gas tax, calling it 'a bad deal for New York and a potential bonanza for the oil companies.'"

"During a visit to a shopping mall in the Buffalo suburbs, Clinton said that 'the gas tax is one of the few exceptions where we actually get more money back than we send to Washington.'"

-msnbc


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:45:30 PM EST

Re: Flip Flopper (2.00 / 2)

Evidently Governor Easely also used to be against the gas tax holiday because, well, it's terrible policy that doesn't help consumers.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Flip Flopper (2.00 / 1)

If you had any credibility you would cite that the reason Hillary refused to back the tax holiday was because it was not paid for.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:11:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And you wanna talk about credibilty (none / 0)

Re: You sound like a Republican (1.22 / 9)

You sound like a bitter uninformed hick. The kind Obama languishes about.

Its all about Pagan Power
by Pagan Power on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:34:25 PM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:15:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you wanna talk about credibilty (2.00 / 1)

Someone insulted me as your post clearly states. What do expect me to do, keep my mouth shut and be nice to someone that paid me the ultimate insult in MY diary?


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:42:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Flip Flopper (none / 0)

Different times call for different measures ~ and these are very different times, in case you weren't paying attention.


by Mags on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Flip Flopper (none / 0)

Nope...I'm of the coast Haiti right now, sailing my yacht, drinking appletinis...Sucks to be you.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat May 03, 2008 at 06:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (1.50 / 2)

Kind of shows "testicular fortitude" to propose pro-middle class legislation in a congress lead by Pelosi and Reid.  Oh wait, these are the leaders of the congress that was given a mandate in the '06 electon to end the war in Iraq and have DONE NOTHING!  Throw the bums out!  Go Hillary!


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:04:00 PM EST

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

But the policy is BS and it's not pro-middle class since the reduction probably won't even show up in consumers' wallets.

150 economists just wrote a piece explaining how absurd the idea is -- including Nobelists Joe Stiglitz, James Heckman and Daniel Kahneman, as well as a Clinton O.M.B. director, Alice Rivlin, and Robert Shapiro, the chief economic adviser to Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 508/Economists_for_the_gas_tax.html


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (1.50 / 2)

Seems to me you can try to effect change; i.e. Hillary's proposal, or you can do nothing; i.e. Barack's proposal.  Now I'm Hopeful.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:09:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Why do Clinton folks keep saying that Obama has no plan, despite that he does and it's on his web site, in his ads, and discussed in newspaper articles?

Repeating things that are not true doesn't make them true, you know.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (2.00 / 1)

Where is his legislation? On his website? I am afraid that is not where legislation gets introduced. Obama mocked Hillary asking her where her legislation was and yesterday she actually introduced it. Where is his? Because it seems to me that he is the panderer, only making statements and promises, not following through with actual potential solutions.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:44:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Unlike Clinton, Obama doesn't believe in political theatre.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (2.00 / 2)

Unlike Clinton, Obama doesn't believe in much of anything.


by therealdeal on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Right. Or should I say Wright. Like you think that we are so stupid as to not realize that the whole outrageous Wright and offended Obama wasn't political theater? Give me a frickin break.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 06:04:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

"Clinton to Congress: You're either with us or against us".

I am slightly surprised that this is posted in approval of Senator Clinton.

We are not talking about about a war of national survival in which there is no middle position, we are not talking about the diktat of a  totalitarian government.

We are talking about a piece of tax legislation that has to be passed by a diverse but democratically elected legislature.

Such a needlessly confrontational attitude could be one of the reasons why, for example, the 1993 Clinton Health Security Bill failed in Congress.

It sucks, but even when you are right  sometimes it is better to cajole rather than to beat people over the head with a false alternative.


by My Ob on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:22:22 PM EST

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

It's rather obvious that this has turned into a very good issue for Obama. He is talking about it on the stump and has both 60 second and 30 second ads on it.

What this issue demonstrates is:

  • Obama's reputation for not being interested in telling people things that don't work or make sense but instead treating people as adults.
  • Clinton's demagoguery, thus contributing to her reputation as a politician who is challenged in the trust department


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:25:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Oh, and now it's in his two minute closing argument ads for NC and IN. Must be a terrible issue for him if he keeps using it, right?  Or maybe he's better off being seen as the non-panderer.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/05/03/obama -makes-indiana-north-carolina-closing-ar gument-in-two-min-tv-ad/


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:24:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (2.00 / 1)

She asks congress which side they are on. The side of No We Can't or Yes We Can. It is a legitimate question and she demonstrates real leadership asking it.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

No, it's actually really terrible leadership if leadership means the capacity to lead people to get something done.

It's completely ineffective and rather reminiscent of the approach she took to health care before.  I don't see how she's learned anything from her past failures.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:51:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (2.00 / 1)

"No, it's actually really terrible leadership if leadership means the capacity to lead people to get something done"

And what compounds the failure to get things done is that she now needs superdelegate votes far more than primary votes. And many superdelegates are members of Congress, the very people she risks offending by a confrontational you are either for or against.

I reckon she has made a bad call. Perhaps she decided on her tax proposal at 3 p.m. rather than 3 a.m.


by My Ob on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:15:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

Well, as her hubbie says, she tends to misspeak when she's tired.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:25:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics (none / 0)

And just what is it that Obama is leading people to do? Have hope?


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 06:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes we can! (none / 0)

The damage that was done by the Obama campaign.


by Mags on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:08:57 PM EST

Re: Yes we can! (2.00 / 1)

You got that right!


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Sat May 03, 2008 at 06:02:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's No We Can't Politics -UPDATED- (none / 0)

It's important to inform people that Obama's position on the Gas Tax issue is with the oil companies just like George W. He can't abide the thought of taxing them, rich as they are, to help the consumer as inflation has been been growing by leaps and bounds.

There is no way this governmentally  inexperienced man, Obama, can cope with the outrageous economic consequences that have developed over the period of Bush's term in office.


by LA on Sat May 03, 2008 at 06:51:13 PM EST


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