MyDD :: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC

Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC

by Josh Orton, Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:26:37 PM EST

A Florida court threw out a lawsuit Wednesday challenging the Democratic Party's decision not to seat delegates from Florida -- as litigants prepared to appeal the case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Political consultant Victor DiMaio and his lawyer Michael Steinberg had compared the party's decision to earlier prohibitions against allowing African-Americans to vote and invoked the trauma of the Florida recount in the 2000 contest between Al Gore and George W. Bush, both arguments also used by Hillary Clinton to support the seating of the state's delegates.
...
Judge Richard Lazarra sided with the party, saying political parties have the right to make their own rules.

This just makes sense. While the primary process badly needs an overhaul, looking for a legal remedy like this is misguided. The nominating process of the Democratic party isn't analogous to the federal election in the fall. It just isn't - caucuses, a staggered contest calendar and superdelegates would all be grossly undemocratic mechanisms in any general election - an election who's results actually decide which candidate assumed office. But this is a party mechanism, and one that was set and agreed to since the beginning. The body to appeal to is within the party.

The 2000 "election" in Florida remains one of our country's saddest and profound moments of disenfranchisement in recent history. Why? Because nearly all existing legal precedent was ignored for political convenience, all the way up to the Supreme Court. The comparison to this year's primary falls flat - besides being within the scope of party procedure, in this case the rules and precedents were actually followed.

Tags: Election 08, Hillary Clinton (all tags)

Permalink :: 28 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (2.00 / 1)

Yep. As people with background in the law and in the Voting Rights Act argued last week, this was sure to happen.

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:27:54 PM EST

Re: Duh! (2.00 / 2)

Please see my post below. This is in no way a civil rights issue -- particularly when FL has closed primaries.

It's insulting and offensive to invoke the civil rights movement, women's suffrage, etc. over this. It does a great disservice to the people who did suffer at the time.

by Brad G on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are criticizing the Democratic party (none / 0)

for only having primaries in which its own members can vote?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Without a REAL committment to it, we WON'T win in November.

by architek on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:09:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, I'm not. (2.00 / 1)

That's not the point. My point is that a because a private party is allowed to exclude people based on political affiliation, the civil rights claim falls flat. It's a constitutional question -- not a political one.

by Brad G on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:08:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

These Proceedings (2.00 / 1)

will be over next week.

by parahammer on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:28:30 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (2.00 / 1)

of course they tossed it out. each hail mary they throw is more pathetic than the last.

Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!

by RockvilleLiberal2 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:29:10 PM EST

Hail Mary passes (2.00 / 1)

are hardly ever caught. This was a Hail Mary! It didn't work. Nor should it.

It was a ridiculous lawsuit.

by southernman on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:29:58 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (2.00 / 1)

What I don't understand is this: don't these people get that it doesn't matter if the delegates are seated "in full," and "as is?" I mean, BHO has it locked up either way.

The real question is about whether punishing MI and FL this year will really help to prevent other states from causing chaos next year.

by NeverNude on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:34:12 PM EST

Onto the R&B committee meetings. (2.00 / 1)

I think they may surprise everyone by NOT re-certifying any MI or FL delegates. The Clinton supporters on the committee aren't as delusional as the Hillaryis44 gang, and they know MI and FL will not put her over the top. They could at least salvage some dignity from the process.

by corph on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:35:19 PM EST

I will ride my hobbyhorse once more (2.00 / 3)

and point out that these claims were previously dismissed by Judge Hinkle in the Northern District . Jerome claimed that the Voting Rights Act claims were new, but he was wrong, as I pointed out here.

This lawsuit was little more than a publicity stunt.

by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:36:26 PM EST

Re: I will ride my hobbyhorse once more (none / 0)

Yeah...

The short answer seems to be that they don't have standing under the Act, but even if they did -- they'd probably lose anyway.

by zonk on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How could it be a civil rights issue? (2.00 / 1)

FL has closed primaries. I don't see how there is a credible case that people's civil rights are being violated when FL excludes members of other political parties in their primaries.

by Brad G on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:43:04 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (2.00 / 1)

Exactly, this is not a legal issue and never has been.

democracy!

by BlueGAinDC on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:48:30 PM EST

half value (none / 0)

I think they need to seat no more than half the delegates, as the GOP did. The problem becomes that if Florida and Michigan are not punished, then the next primary round will be an absolute free for all. The states were warned, and they chose to ignore it. The punishment needs to stand since all the other 48 states plus the territories chose to follow the rules.

I would also strip all of the superdelegates from both states, at least the ones not elected to Federal Office. The Michigan superdelegates are definitely at fault, especially Jennifer Grenholm. This way the party can at least argue it gave the people some say, while punishing the party muckity-mucks.

by monkeyga on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:55:31 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (none / 0)

Can someone please reconcile something for me? Today the DNC says their lawyers have interpreted their rules to mean so-and-so, which I assume means their delegate apportionment rules are considered to be legally binding, and they feel they can be compelled to enforce those rules in that fashion by a court. How does that jibe with their argument that the courts have no jurisdiction?

by Pol C on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:06:14 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (2.00 / 1)

The real issue is that private organizations are able to set their own rules.

The DNC's rules aren't legally binding-- they're binding because the DNC says so.

by Crookd River Progressive on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:14:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (none / 0)

I'm not entirely sure what you're driving at, but the Voting Rights Act, which is what the plaintiffs sued under, simply does not apply to the allocation of delegates by a private political party. If the law doesn't apply, there's no way that the party can be found in violation of that law.

As for the DNC's rules, I'm just speculating here but perhaps these are contractual terms for how the DNC treats its corporate members. Therefore, if it breaks those rules, its members may be able to sue for breach of contract or breach of fiduciary duty, something along those lines. That would be a right of the corporate members to bring a lawsuit, though, not a right of individual voters. And, the DNC has followed its rules with respect to punishing the states, so such charges would also be baseless.

by rfahey22 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:21:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Party CAN have Binding Contracts (none / 0)

The party, as a private organization can establish its own rules and by-laws.

Meanwhile the party can enter into numerous contracts - rental agreements, mortgages, employment contracts, candidate and campaign contracts, consultant contracts, etc - the same way any other private organization does. Terms of those contracts ARE binding and do have full force of law - civil contract law vs. federal civil rights or criminal laws.

The penalty of 1/2 vote plus No Supers is a long-standing automatic penalty within the by-laws of the party. It is the MINIMUM and AUTOMATIC penalty assessed when a state breaks the rules. The by-laws committee may have the authority to reverse their 100% penalty. Under rules and other party by-laws they probably don't have the authority to over-ride the automatic penalty (I haven't read the legal team's brief, but this has been my position all along from what I have read).

by Eman on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:05:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The audacity of the Clinton campaign (2.00 / 0)

is unbelievable. The states broke the rules, the clearly identified and AGREED TO rules, and a lawsuit is filed alleging similarities to Florida 2000 and civil rights.

Absolutely unbelievable!!

by southernman on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:11:32 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (none / 0)

Why does this judge hate democracy so much? ;)

John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!

by proseandpromise on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:12:05 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (none / 0)

Here's to hoping this will all be over on Saturday and then we can get on to the business of winning this election...

Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics

by BishopRook on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:21:14 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (none / 0)

Nothing wrong with hope. But expect the Clintons to continue their intrigues until the sceptre is pried from their politically cold, dead, fingers.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (none / 0)

This 'tossing out' is a metaphor for this whole campaign now.
In the mean time we have lost months in not laying down the groundwork necessary to defeat McCain.

We are losing time.

Obama/Warner 2008

by MissVA on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:23:17 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (none / 0)

"In the mean time we have lost months in not laying down the groundwork necessary to defeat McCain."

Fortunately, Obama and the Democratic party have been blessed with the most unpopular president ever to campaign against, a GOP that is trying to hide from itself, and a Repo nominee in McCain who's an over-the-over-the-hill version of Bob Dole.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:40:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (none / 0)

caucuses, a staggered contest calendar and superdelegates would all be grossly undemocratic mechanisms in any general election

They are grossly undemocratic mechanisms as well for a party which calls itself "Democratic."

The only way such foolish and destructive intrigue as is now occuring (take your pick which side to blame it on) won't reoccur is by the Democratic Party enacting a truly democratic process where the standard bearer is chosen by popular vote in a national primary -- with IRV to ensure that the winner has a majority of votes.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:35:02 PM EST

Re: Judge Tosses Florida Lawsuit Against DNC (none / 0)

Florida's election problems have been a terrible blot of the State but we must not place blame where it doesn't belong. The Repuglicants are to bear the full blame. No one else is at fault especially the Democrats including Obama and his compaign. To her shame Hillary in her desperation to win has decided to blame obama and her own party for these problems. Hillary has inflamed the Democratic voters against her party and one of her own and she should be exposed for it. I'm sorry to her supporters but the truth sometimes, although it hurts has to be told.

by eddieb on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:59:08 PM EST

Statewide Elected Democrats are also to blame (none / 0)

Yes, this whole situation has nothing to do with Senator Obama, who has been saying from Day One that he would play by whatever rules the party gave him.

But no, not just the Republicans in Florida. Watch the videos of Democratic leaders giggling as they pretended to object, and then voted almost unanimously to move the primary forward. They really thought they would bull their way, get their way, and party be damned.

A rules-conforming primary WAS ready to be approved, but NO, who killed that? The Florida Democratic Delegation. Had they been on board, this problem would have been solved over a month ago. Another reason why removing superdelegates is a part of the long-standing automatic party rules.

They could have helped. They chose to thumb their noses. Now they whine the loudest.

by Eman on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Statewide Elected Democrats are also to blame (none / 0)

You are right but even this would have been overcome if Hillary hadn't inflamed the issue. There is a valid argument that this was a Repiglicant fashioned bill that put the Dems in a no win position. Would any one have forgiven the Fla Dems for voting against or killing a bill that insured Florida would have a Vote paper trail? So I still repeat my charge that it's The REPIGS who are the true villans here not the Dems!

by eddieb on Thu May 29, 2008 at 08:31:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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