Hillary's Swing State Advantage

The Obama camp contends that Clinton's performance in the primaries is not indicative of her performance in the general election.

A new Gallup study suggests otherwise:

Swing states won by Clinton, excluding Florida and Michigan:

Swing states won by Clinton, including Florida and Michigan:

The analysis:

In the 20 states where Hillary Clinton has claimed victory in the 2008 Democratic primary and caucus elections (winning the popular vote), she has led John McCain in Gallup Poll Daily trial heats for the general election over the past two weeks of Gallup Poll Daily tracking by 50% to 43%. In those same states, Barack Obama is about tied with McCain among national registered voters, 45% to 46%.

In contrast, in the 28 states and the District of Columbia where Obama has won a higher share of the popular vote against Clinton in the 2008 Democratic primaries and caucuses, there is essentially no difference in how Obama and Clinton each fare against McCain. Both Democrats are statistically tied with him for the fall election.

The Gallup study directly supports Clinton's assertion that she will be a stronger general-election candidate against John McCain in crucial battleground states, based on her primary election performance.  Obama, on other hand, cannot claim a similar advantage.

Cross posted at TexasDarlin



Display:


Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 12)

Hillary Clinton is clearly the stronger general election candidate against John McCain.  The superdelegates should be persuaded by objective studies such as this one which highlight her GE strength in key battleground states.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:25:24 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 3)

Clearly, eh?

I noticed those Gallup numbers favor the ones Clinton won, of course, including Kentucky and West Virginia.

Interesting that Obama's only three points behind, even including those two states.

I wonder what a matchup with Obama's wins would reveal...


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am guessing that those are states the Dems (2.00 / 3)

have lost in recent elections..

Are we going to just throw that gain away?

Looks like we might.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:47:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bottom Line (2.00 / 1)

According to Gallup's May 12-25 tracking polling, Clinton is running stronger against McCain than is Obama in the 20 states where Clinton can claim popular-vote victory in the Democratic primaries and caucuses. By contrast, Obama runs no better against McCain than does Clinton in the 28 states plus the District of Columbia where he has prevailed. On this basis, Clinton appears to have the stronger chance of capitalizing on her primary strengths in the general election.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107539/Hillar y-Clintons-SwingState-Advantage.aspx

Should Obama become the nominee, the case for a unity ticket is very, very strong.


by phoenixdreamz on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:59:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bottom Line (2.00 / 1)

2 things ain't gonna happen: 1) HRC winning the nomination 2) HRC being on the ticket
Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:17:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bottom Line (none / 0)

Then 1 thing happens after that: Obama will lose.


by phoenixdreamz on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:27:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go to Gallup (2.00 / 1)

They look at that question.


by lombard on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:47:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 7)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yup. Typical democrats. (2.00 / 1)

Losers of 7 of the last 10 elections. Now  you know why. They pick people who cannot win the GE.


It's an election, not an auction.
by cosbo on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

Nothing like winning the battle, but losing the war:


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:54:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (1.66 / 3)

This late in the game?

This must be snark?


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 2)

Do you use the same words for every diary?


by environmentally blue on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:32:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (1.50 / 2)

No; the cut-and-paste dead-enders do. Donate to Hillary now!


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (1.50 / 4)

Welcome everyone,  meet environmentally blue.

One of the new McBloggers.

You can tell who they are by the pathetic names.
And really weak one liners,  remember Trixta?  how about ChitownDenny(RIP).


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:35:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

your constant name-calling and negitivity is not helping anyone


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:08:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

You seem to be on TR spree -- a little presumptuous for someone with all of about 8 comments, huh?

How bouts you cool your itchy trigger finger...


by zonk on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (1.00 / 1)

8 comments, defending a McBlogger?

sounds like another mcblogger

Look as long as our Primary is wrapped up and there are headlines that McCain is hosting a "blogger camp" this summer then you got to assume these 16 year old rejects who thinks the conservatives will accept them  then I have to assume anyone attacking Obama or our party en masse is a GOP operative.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:16:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh, Its All They Have (2.00 / 2)

Seriously - when they resort to using the same thing comment after comment in diary after diary you know you've already won.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, Its All They Have (2.00 / 2)

The only thing Hillary's won is a trip back to the senate and the animosity of the African-American community. Not what I'd call the best of consolation prizes.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, Its All They Have (none / 0)

As a Clinton supporter, I am surprised that you what winning is...
Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:44:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I guess it really means you've won (2.00 / 3)

when a user resorts to the same thing diary after diary.


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, Its All They Have (2.00 / 1)

We learned it from you! You're an inspiration!


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:47:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ha (1.75 / 4)

yup.

You've won.

I suggest sparing us from your diaries and just enjoy the summer and Hillary's inevitable nomination - there's no need to rub it in.

Pay no mind to the delegate counts, the media, or reality -- Clinton has won!

It's over - there's no more need to bludgeon us with the indisputable facts.  No purpose is served by continually rubbing our faces in it - you're gonna need us in the fall, remember.

We surrender.

On behalf of all Obama supporters, I hereby offer my sword in defeat.


by zonk on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:47:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, Its All They Have (none / 0)

It is so fascinating to see Alegre drive by every now and then to make silly little comments like this one, but rarely (on the off chance that she once did - I have a hunch never is a more appropriate term) responding to substantive criticism and questions with substantive responses.  


by oliver cromwell on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:39:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Won what? (none / 0)

A primary?  No...wait.  Sorry, that ship has sailed.


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:03:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (1.77 / 9)

I forgot, is TD more NoQuarter or Hillis44?

Her reccers were here instantly:

JoeySky18
easyE
moevaughn
nikkid
environmentally blue
soyousay
pan230oh
leisure

This is a NoQuarter production right?

Also, someone tell that guy to cut his hair if he wants to continue pretending to be a Democrat.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 4)

Pretty sure this is an H44 emanation...

The NoQuarter crowd generally congregates to the viscerally offensive rather than logically flawed.


by zonk on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:49:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

These cherry-picked statistics from a single poll don't even come close to the type of extreme circumstance that would cause superdelegates to overturn the popular vote.  Lets be honest now, do you really expect them to look at this stuff and suddenly all move to Clinton because she is a few percentage points ahead in some states?


by catalysis on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:34:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

It's not about convincing supers.  It's about making the echo-chambers over at other websites feel good.  By posting this, Texas gets to bask in their affection for a bit and they all get to enjoy another hearty round of "those meaaaan Obama supports didn't even listen to our case" as if this was some new, groundbreaking argument that hadn't been refuted dozens of times from people on both sides of the fence.  This way they still feel like the relevant underdogs that they make their candidate of choice out to be.

This is no longer about Obama vs. Clinton, it's about supporters vs. supports, donchaknow.


by apd on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 4)

http://electoral-vote.com/evp2004/may/ma y28.html

Let's get over the whole "polls in May mean anything" kick, okay?


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:41:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

Damn!  Ouch...


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:53:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeoowezza!!!! (none / 0)

Shocking, an establishment dem., picked for his experience and with the blessing of the DLC, polls great early then gets trounced?


by notme54 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeoowezza!!!! (none / 0)

The DLC?

The Clintons founded the DLC and Obama isn't a member.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:36:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That map was about Kerry (none / 0)


by notme54 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:37:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 7)

They're on the run, no matter the nominee we pick.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:46:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

Mojo'd for... um... WOOHOO! :)


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:56:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 2)

The GE is not today, and it is not conducted via a poll. You make a valid argument but clearly this nomination fight is in the final stretches and clearly there is a winner winning by the metrics that determine winning...so....Will you support the democratic nominee whoever it is?


I will wear my heart upon my sleeve For daws to peck at
by Iago on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

But why bother? She will never get a chance to prove you right or wrong. I truly don't understand this kind of diary this late in the process.


by Becky G on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:04:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bye troll (2.00 / 1)

However, just focusing on the swing states in Clinton's and Obama's respective win columns, the two are fairly similar. Clinton beats McCain in her purple states (including Florida and Michigan) by 49% to 43%, while Obama slightly trails McCain (43% to 46%) in these states -- a nine-point swing in the gap in Clinton's favor. Conversely, Obama beats McCain in his purple states (49% to 41%), while Clinton trails McCain by one point, 45% to 46%, in the same states -- also a nine-point swing in the gap in Obama's favor.


by Builderman on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

Hillary Clinton has clearly been getting a free ride since mid April when both Obama and McCain turned their sites on each other while Clinton threw the mother-in-law apartment's kitchen sink at Obama and gave McCain a free ride.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:29:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's problem must be (2.00 / 9)

that he's so mysterious, eh SoCal?

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/04 29/mystery-man-obama


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:28:24 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem must be (1.50 / 2)

Good point.

Go away, troll diarist!


by Lawyerish on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

heh, well, on the plus side (1.83 / 6)

she didn't call him "uppity" in this diary.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: heh, well, on the plus side (1.66 / 3)

oh thank god, Texas Darlin called anyone upity yet.

PROGRESS!

Now if we can get Alegre to stop referring to EVERYONE as boy.

I know thats what racist southerners used to call black people so I dont know where Alegre is coming from.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:32:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: heh, well, on the plus side (1.00 / 1)

calling someone a racist just because you disagree with them is totally uncalled for and desperate.


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ha (2.00 / 3)

I didn't call her "racist" --- I merely pointed out she had called the African American candidate "uppity."

Conclude what you will.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ha (none / 0)

ah a 'dog whistle' on your part, and you think that is an excuse?


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:18:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ha (2.00 / 2)

She did call Obama 'uppity' in one of her diaries.  Is that a 'dog whistle' on her part?



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:26:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ha (none / 0)

got a link?


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:10:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ha (none / 0)

nope, looks like you don't and are just lying to make your ego feel better for being called on what you are doing.


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:43:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: heh, well, on the plus side (none / 0)

TRd for TRing people just because your in love with Socal darling.

She has said alot of "racist" things, enough to get her booted from this site for some time.

TD gets no love or respect from anyone on this site.

Alegre for all her faults is not a bad person, but the liar TD definately is.

I would suggest just go back to hillis44, put up some walls and pretend that she won.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:18:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: heh, well, on the plus side (none / 0)

you were the ones trying to paint her as racist with no evidence beyond that you do not like the candidate she backs. And of course you TR me for calling you on your name-calling and other insulting and demeaning behavior.

It is considered bad form to down rate someone you are having a dispute with so I shall refrain from your 2nd deserved TR from me. Sadly you have once again shown that you do not respect this site, it's rules or other posters.


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Since your first comment was yesterday (2.00 / 1)

You're hardly in a position to be lecturing on the subject.

Was there a registration drive at Hillis44?


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:26:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Since your first comment was yesterday (none / 0)

pardon me? care to back that up with something, anything at all? Or are you just one of the ones who flings their poop at the wall and giggles when it sticks?


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:02:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Since your first comment was yesterday (none / 0)

oh, and look at Mae Scott and a few others if you wish, all purported BHO supporters, only a few recent comments and a tring of TR's of folks you like to insult every day. Funny how we don't see you talking to "her" about the dkos registration drive. well, no not funny, just typical.


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:08:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is she riding a high horse (none / 0)

and lecturing people about the site rules?


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:18:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is she riding a high horse (none / 0)

why are you?


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:41:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No U! (none / 0)

great substantive reply.


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No U! (none / 0)

you give non-substancive you get it right back at you. simple logic, try it someday troll


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:23:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Since your first comment was yesterday (none / 0)

OK, I used this thing called "Search MyDD" (try it someday, really) and looked for diaries with "uppity" in them. Only a few were found, none by TexasDarlin, you might be thinking of the one by linfar, but the word was not used about BHO

Truth is  I used to fill a little uppity about gas prices because in 2004

But about herself. So it seems in all respects you are not just incorrect, but totally wrong and even more trollish for trying to smear a diarist for no good reason.


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:15:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not thinking of TexasDarlin at all (none / 0)

I'm not the one who made the uppity comment.  Get straight who you're talking about lest your indignation become embarrassment.


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:22:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not thinking of TexasDarlin at all (none / 0)

no, you are just an enabler. do you think that makes you look better?


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so you concede you were wrong (none / 0)

that's a start.


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:44:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: so you concede you were wrong (none / 0)

so you are admitting you approve of and support that lie? it's one or the other and so far i have not seen you TR that direct false attack on another poster so you do seem to apporve of lying in order to get your way.


by trytobereal on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:20:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

is it a lie? (none / 0)

did your search pick up everything ever written by SoCal?  It would seem not.  I'm not going to call someone a liar unless I'm confident they are lying.  It's a shame you aren't as careful as I am about making such charges.


by JJE on Thu May 29, 2008 at 01:04:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem must be (2.00 / 1)

Oh I didn't realize this person was just a OMG EVIL FOREIGN0RZ person.  Good to know, I will just file her hate diaries with Michael Begela's.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:31:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 4)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:29:19 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

Why don't you try posting something actually current.  

Like ALL OF THEM SHOWING HILLARY WINS by 5 points

....and Obama loses to McCain.

Quinipiac
Gallup and
Rasmuessen


by environmentally blue on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:36:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

Yeah, Gallup said today Obama was 45, McCain 46. Not quite five points. But nice try. And it's because people like you, when they answer the phone, vote for McCain in these polls over Obama, whereas I would never, no matter the animosity I might feel towards Senator Clinton for her atrocious campaigning, vote for Senator McCain.

Sorry, but electoral blackmail don't win elections.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

True that... nt (none / 0)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:15:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

All within the margin or error.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (1.66 / 6)

Yes, the delegate leader should drop out now!  What is he thinking?  Can you believe that he has the Audacity to even think about competing in the GE!  Thanks for opening my eyes!


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:30:02 PM EST

This must be snark. (2.00 / 2)

Seriously.


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:47:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If only she'd spent more time... (2.00 / 1)

racking up delegates instead of making up lies about ducking sniper fire, she'd have been able to back up these polls with...you know...delegates.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:31:06 PM EST

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (1.33 / 3)

BO made a reference to Auschwitz in his 2002 speech against Iraq war. At that time it was his grandfather who heard about Auschwitz.

Obama 2002 speech

Quote:
"Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances.

The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don't oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

I don't oppose all wars."

In 2008, the story changed from grandfather to uncle. But this time his uncle not just heard about Auschwitz. BO said his uncle actually went to Auschwitz.

Quote:
"..an uncle who was one of the..ah..who's part of the first American troops to go to Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camp."

You be the judge if this is an innocent mistake or a deliberate act to exaggerate family history for political gain.

First, parents participated and met at MLK march. - lie.
Second, father benefited from JFK chartered flight. - lie.
Third, uncle liberated the infamous death camp. - lie.


by JoeySky18 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (2.00 / 2)

Get this copypasta outta here! BO's about to become the nominee of your party (presuming you're a Democrat). Why are you trying to smear your nominee?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:34:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (2.00 / 5)

Actually, this has been thoroughly debunked. His uncle was at Birkenau, not Auschwitz. Snopes.com also debunked the Kennedy and MLK thing. What a bastard, huh? But good job looking like an idiot for using busted talking points?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:35:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (2.00 / 1)

If by debunked you mean proven that he made shit up, or at least mispoke. Just because he gets caught and says sorry does not mean it's been debunked.


by nyarch on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:53:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (none / 0)

There's a difference.  He didn't make up that his uncle was involved in liberating a Nazi camp, he just mentioned the wrong camp.  The underlying story was true.  

Hillary being shot at by snipers... not so much underlying truth to that.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:19:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (none / 0)

And you won't ever hear me justifying the sniper crap.  Nor do I think this thing is a story worth talking about, I wish he knew more about WWII history and Europe considering the subcomittee he is on, but it is not a big deal.  My point was making a mistake and correcting it does not qualify as debunking. For it to be debunked it would have had to have been made up from the start, but you know...he said it.


by nyarch on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (1.00 / 1)

She did the same thing on March 6th!
TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?
CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.

So if hillary said it before, what does that mean?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:42:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Buchenwald isn't an infamous death camp (1.00 / 1)

I know you types skew low-info, but this ignorance is stunning.


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Err... Yes it is... (2.00 / 1)

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou rce/Holocaust/buchenwald.html

Buchenwald

Buchenwald was one of the largest concentration camps established by the Nazis. The camp was constructed in 1937 in a wooded area on the northern slopes of the Ettersberg, about five miles northwest of Weimar in east-central Germany. Before the Nazi takeover of power, Weimar was best known as the home of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, who embodied the German enlightenment of the eighteenth century, and as the birthplace of German constitutional democracy in 1919, the Weimar Republic. During the Nazi regime, "Weimar" became associated with the Buchenwald concentration camp.

Buchenwald first opened for male prisoners in July 1937. Women were not part of the Buchenwald camp system until 1944. Prisoners were confined in the northern part of the camp in an area known as the main camp, while SS guard barracks and the camp administration compound were located in the southern part. The main camp was surrounded by an electrified barbed-wire fence, watchtowers, and a chain of sentries outfitted with automatically activated machine guns. The jail, also known as the Bunker, was located at the entrance to the main camp. The SS carried out shootings in the stables and hangings in the crematorium area.

Most of the early inmates at Buchenwald were political prisoners. However, in 1938, in the aftermath of Kristallnacht, German SS and police sent almost 10,000 Jews to Buchenwald where they were subjected to extraordinarily cruel treatment. 600 prisoners died between November 1938 and February 1939.

Beginning in 1941, a varied program of involuntary medical experiments on prisoners took place at Buchenwald in special barracks in the northern part of the main camp. Medical experiments involving viruses and contagious diseases such as typhus resulted in hundreds of deaths. In 1944, SS Dr. Carl Vaernet began a series of experiments that he claimed would "cure" homosexual inmates.

...

It's where the infamous human skin lampshades were found.


by kraant on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sarcasm (none / 0)

I was mocking the commenter's claim that confusing Auschwitz for Buchenwald is some kind of horrible lie.


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's hard to tell the... (none / 0)

... sarcasm here.

Sorry.

Probably for the best, there's folks out there who would have read that and agreed with it.


by kraant on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:29:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No worries (none / 0)

I should have made it clearer.


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (none / 0)

JoeySky18:

Congratulations!  You're the most uninformed human on the internet.  Take a bow.

(golf clap)


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (none / 0)

Not same speech...reading comprehension for the win.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

It says my grandfather heard the stories...it was his uncle that was at Buchenwald.  Please ltr


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:30:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (none / 0)

How did he hear the stories of fellow troops that first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka when they were in Poland?  The Red Army entered Auschwitz, and Treblinka was bulldozed and covered up by late 1943.


by mdana on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If only she'd spent more time... (none / 0)

The news...

You know they had it back then.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:42:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

tips and rec'd.


by nikkid on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:33:04 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

Why?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:35:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (1.00 / 1)

nikkid, this has to be snark.

Snark like when you insinuated that Hillary's campaign was more important than soldiers dying in Iraq.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:37:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Two more recs like these (2.00 / 3)

and you get the McCain coffee mug.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:44:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If only she had won (2.00 / 2)

I bet Al Gore would have an advantage now too.

Let's work for our party and the person who will be the nominee.


by notme54 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:33:08 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 2)

The Democratic Primary is a delegate race, and Hillary Clinton has lost that race.

Any "advantages" Hillary might theoretically have in a theoretical general election match-up are irrelevant at this point, because she will not be a candidate in the general election.

http://hillaryis404.org


by baghdadjoe on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:33:37 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

Yes. it's a delegate race.  And Obama doesn't have enough delegates to win the nomination.


by JoeySky18 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

He's 46 away. Don't worry. He'll get there.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:37:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

He is several hundred away, just like her. Not a single super casts their vote till August.


by nyarch on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

LOL. Keep telling yourself that. :^)


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

It's fact.  Did I say it would change the outcome? no.


by nyarch on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

He's 46 delegates away, man.

This is good news for Democrats.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:26:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

If you think he is the best candidate, or that he can win, or should he win he would be a good leader.  I know my opinion on the first two, and I have yet to be convinced on the third.


by nyarch on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:38:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 2)

HRC has the winning coalition to win the general election.  The other guy doesn't have it.


by JoeySky18 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:34:03 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (1.00 / 1)

When the pollers call me, should I say I won't support Senator Clinton? You know that's why she's polling where she is; because Obama supporters refuse to support McCain, no matter the nominee. Clinton supporters, on the other hand...


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:36:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Got to win the nomination (2.00 / 2)

before you win the general.

Sadly, Sen. Clinton could not beat an empty suit who has no experience.


by notme54 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Democratic primary voters (none / 0)

are not a winning coalition.  I recall John Kerry did quite well amongst them, but alas.


by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

What the hell's a swing state?

I for one don't care whether Obama wins these so called "swing states," as long as he reaches 270 electoral votes.

I don't think you get it TexasDarlin, we don't care about this argument anymore. Obama is stronger in different states than Clinton, and can get to 270 just as easily.


democracy!
by BlueGAinDC on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:35:08 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

No we actually get it.

Its the Obama fans with blinders that are going full blast regardless of the NOv. outcome.


by libdemusa on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

Aren't you the guy who thinks we've got a "liberal media"? Why would you trust their polling data?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

Oh yeah, I forgot how naive I am.

Only a few states actually get to vote in november (FL, MI, OH, PA), everyone else gets their states vote decided for them. You HAVE to win those four to become president.

I'm so damn blind, how could I not see that?


democracy!
by BlueGAinDC on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:45:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

Obama doesn't have 270 electoral vote.

Clinton 327 Mccain 194 17 Ties

Obama 266 Mccain 248 24 Ties

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Cl inton/Maps/May28.html


by JoeySky18 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BREAKING!!!! (2.00 / 2)

Nobody has any electoral votes yet!


by notme54 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:40:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

How about them maps on the page here? Ever seen them?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:41:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I CAN HAZ PROFESY? (2.00 / 2)

In June 2002, Ross Perot led in the Gallup poll.  How'd that work out again?  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:48:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I CAN HAZ PROFESY? (2.00 / 1)

Only off by a decade, pretty good at math compared to most of the comments I have seen posted.


by mdana on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whoops. 1992. Thanks. (none / 0)


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 1)

You might want to take a look at the map in the top left corner of the MyDD home page.


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:49:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (2.00 / 2)

I love this. Here's what the Clinton supporters' argument boils down to.
 * Obama can't be the Democratic nominee even if he gets the majority of delegates because none of the delegates vote until the convention.
 * However, Hillary has more electoral votes.
Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:02:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

That is pretty damn funny.


by oliver cromwell on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

This case has never been made before.  Quick, someone alert the superdelegates!


by apd on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:35:17 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Swing State Advantage (none / 0)

LMFAO.  It's really sad isn't it?  

I mean, I understand that Bill and Hillary are just playing politics, but her supporters really buy into it all.  And to think the loudest of them are the ones who diminish the seriousness of Obama's appeal by calling his supporters 'cultists' and the like.

To buy the Clinton's argument is to suspend disbelief.  Incredible mental gymnastics must be exercised when considering McCaullife's tenure at DNC, Ickes vote to strip the delegates, Hillary's pledge to follow DNC Rules, Hillary's many comments about 2025 delegates and the fact everyone knew the votes in FL and MI weren't going to count.

I mean, when Ickes himself admits that his position has only changed because Hillary is losing now, I don't know how the sheep follow so blindly and with such venom towards the presumptive Dem nominee.


PUMA plants.
by jv on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:14:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Even Slight good news for GOP in November (1.00 / 2)

Even just a mild wind of good news hits the Republicans by October or November, Obama will lose to McCain by a huge margin.

As it is today, we have a damaged, wounded Republican party vs. An All Good MSM Obama support & Barack is literally struggling against McCain.

While you have a Clinton who is being attacked by Dem leaders, the MSM. All calling for her to drop-out. Yet, if the elections were held today,
she would win by a massive electoral landslide !

What a country! What a party!

Only in America !

40 Millions democrats will have lots of sleepless nights in November.  


by libdemusa on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:35:47 PM EST

Re: Even Slight good news for GOP in November (2.00 / 2)

Attention everyone- this is the man who thinks we belong to the "Democrat" party. Draw your own conclusions.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:37:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

anyone with a handle as hamhanded (none / 0)

and obvious as "libdemusa" must be a troll.


by JJE</