Trouble in the Heartland

Two troubling stories have come out regarding Sen. Obama's chances of winning over voters in a head-to-head match-up against Sen. McCain in the general election.  

First up - the Show Me state's not buyin' what he's selling - at least not yet.

BO isn't winning over Missourians in the "Show Me" state, where MO has picked every Presidential winner since 1908.   He might argue that their opinions are not important come the GE, but with a record like this, I don't think you can argue with the following...

Obama hasn't shown Missouri voters enough yet

CAPE GIRARDEAU, Mo --When Linda Sanders mounted an eight-foot sign on her property urging neighbors to vote Democratic, people threw eggs at it and someone set it on fire.

snip

"I know people who are distrustful of Obama. But it's not because he's black. They're Hillary people. .. We're not sure we know enough about him personally," said Clara Vaughn, a nonprofit administrator in Lee's Summit, a Kansas City suburb.

With one exception, Missouri has voted for the winner in every presidential election since 1904. If Obama, who's ahead of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton in the race for the Democratic nomination, gets the nod, he'll need to win over people like Vaughn in order to win Missouri's 11 electoral votes in November.

snip

The most common complaint about Obama is his lack of experience.

"That's my big objection," said H.H. Townsend, a former New Madrid County treasurer. "At least if Clinton was president, she'd have Bill as an adviser."

Snip

To many, the Illinois senator remains a largely unknown quantity. "We know everything about Hillary. Every rock, all these years," said Clara Vaughn. "With (Obama), every once in a while, something drips out."

Jeb Morris, a lineman, said he's troubled by the sources of Obama's campaign money. For all his rhetoric about rejecting lobbyists, Morris still sees a long list of corporate-based contributors.

"I feel like I just don't know him yet," he said.

snip

A quick look around Cape Girardeau illustrates why Obama has a rough task. Downtown is the Rush H. Limbaugh Sr. Federal Courthouse, named after the conservative radio talker's grandfather. A portrait of the radio host is prominent on one the floodwall lining the Mississippi, along with Harry Truman, Frank and Jesse James and Mark Twain.

No one expects Obama to win a majority of Missouri's conservative voters. But if he can get enough Clinton and Edwards Democrats, he's got a shot at carrying the Show Me state.

"I can't vote Republican," said Clara Vaughn. "I'll either vote for Obama or not vote. If it were today, I would not vote. There's still six months. ... He's gonna' have to convince me. I haven't seen it yet."

They just don't know him yet and after 16 / 17 months on the campaign trail that's tough to believe that anyone paying attention to this race can say that.  But I'm guessing they're not alone in that out in Missouri.  

And if he can't get through to the folks in Missouri then I'm guessing he'll have trouble in other swing states like MO as well.  

The other Democrat in this race- you know... Hillary - won't have that problem gang.  She's been out there for 15 years - she's vetted and battle-tested and will kick McCain's backside in the GE.  Of that I have no doubt.

And I'm not sure if you've seen this one from Rasmussen but apparently, they're giving John McCain an 86% chance of winning that state come November...

In Kansas, the latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds John McCain enjoying a twenty-one percentage point advantage over Barack Obama. It's McCain 55% Obama 34%.

McCain is viewed favorably by 61% of Kansas voters while Obama earns positive reviews from 45%.

Rasmussen Markets shows that Republicans are currently given a 86.0% chance of winning the Six Electoral College Votes from Kansas this fall.

Now I don't know about you, but I doubt even their good Governor will help if BO puts her on the ticket as his running mate.  

But then we're getting ahead of ourselves here - he hasn't won this thing yet.



Display:


Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 9)

He's still got a lot of work to do if he's going to win the WH back for us in Nov.  Maaaaaaaaaybe there's a stronger candidate out there eh?

I mean as our nominee.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:02:16 AM EST

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (1.90 / 10)

In case you missed that - I'm talkin' about HILLARY! ;o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:02:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Excuse me, would you mind answering my question? (1.57 / 7)

I've been waiting four days for an answer:

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/26/2 15153/906/227#227

Thanks, I appreciate it!


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:05:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Another one? (none / 0)

Somebody has trouble withl the Obama dominated Rec.List or as I

like to call it

The Reality Based Rec.List.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:07:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, and while you're at it... (2.00 / 2)

if it's not too much trouble, would you possibly be able to answer ipsos's question, too?  It's right below mine.  Thanks!


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:12:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, and while you're at it... (1.66 / 3)

Don't forget my two!

1. Will you support the D nominee if the D nominee is Barack Obama?

2. Why should voters in MI who didn't vote because they were told the election wouldn't count be ignored when debating what to do with the delegates?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:14:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, and while you're at it... (none / 0)

Yeah, what elsinora said! :-)

(And, thanks, Elsinora for saving me the trouble...)


Ceci n'est pas une <<snark>>
by ipsos on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:39:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Uhh... (none / 0)

Keep waiting.
I can't tell if she just throws out claims she knows are shit and won't answer others' rebuttals because she knows she can't, or whether she really DOES believe the stuff she spews, and so sees it as self evident, and therefore thinks that any dissent must by definition be untrue and unworthy of dealing with.
ооо
by Mumphrey on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 2)

I've said it once, and I'll say it again- Hillary is a strong candidate, no doubt, and it's due to her strength that Obama will beat McCain this fall. You'd said more than once she's stronger than the Republicans- and she's the one who put Obama through the ringer, so to speak.

With someone like Clinton putting him through the paces, McCain won't stand a chance.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:06:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 1)

The article on Missouri was based on anecdotal stories.  Obama won Missouri, so he won over enough voters there.


United we stand, divided we fall.
by mefeck on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:05:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 6)

Yeah - except those were during primary season.  We're talkin' about the GE here.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:06:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 2)

So you no longer think that Hillary's wins in certain states means that Obama would have problems there?

Good - since that argument had no basis in any previous pattern.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:14:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 1)

Now this I agree with.  It contradicts many of your other diaries, but the facts are on your side with this comment.  Thank you, alegre.


by Pat Flatley on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:17:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 2)

The FACTS are always on Alegre's side. That's why she's an excellent diarist and frequently on the recommend list.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 27, 2008 at 10:44:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (none / 0)

I just spit out my coffee laughing at this comment.  Thanks!


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 2)

So I guess that whole electoral vote meme was completely false and every other diary that breathlessly proclaimed "OMG, Hills won Ohio, so she must be the nominee or we're sunk!"


United we stand, divided we fall.
by mefeck on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:18:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey, wait a seond! (2.00 / 4)

You're always parroting the line that winning primary states is key to winning those states in the GE.  So now you don't care?  

Oh, right.  Because it doesn't support your point.  

Do I have this straight?

  • Arguments are GOOD when they work FOR you.
  • Those same arguments are BAD when they work AGAINST you.  

Got it.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:32:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 4)

haha you busted one of your own talking point!

zinger


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:38:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (none / 0)

Alegre, this is a song that talks about what is the only chance you have left:  Artist: The Lovin' Spoonful
Song: Do You Believe in Magic

Do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart
How the music can free her, whenever it starts
And it's magic, if the music is groovy
It makes you feel happy like an old-time movie
I'll tell you about the magic, and it'll free your soul
But it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll.

If you believe in magic don't bother to choose
If it's jug band music or rhythm and blues
Just go and listen it'll start with a smile
It won't wipe off your face no matter how hard you try
Your feet start tapping and you can't seem to find
How you got there, so just blow your mind


by skywaker9 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:47:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain beats Obama; Clinton beats McCain (none / 0)

In  Missouri, the SurveyUSA poll taken on May 15-16 resulted in:

McCain 48 and Obama 45.

The matching poll found:

 Clinton 48  and McCain 46

Most recent Missouri Poll listed on Real Clear Politics summary of recent polls.


by itsadryheat on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:11:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 5)

She's so strong she was dominated by a political newbie.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:11:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Holy smokes, are you for real? (2.00 / 4)

She's so strong she was handed a hundred million dollars, a huge initial lead in the polls, and a phantom lead of superdelegates to discourage upstarts and blunt the momentum of a challenger.

And she failed to ever take a lead in pledged delegates and has now officially lost the primaries as there aren't enough delegates out there, even if she won every single one, to catch up.  

She's so strong that she's already lost.  That's why we do the primary season.  To figure out which candidate is the strongest.  

She never took a lead in pledged delegates after being handed every advantage.  

It's incredible that any Democrat who actually cares about the platform of the party would still be trying to burn everyone's energy on Hillary's campaign.  


by Sun Dog on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:21:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

nobody knows you (1.83 / 6)

if all you do is give rhetorically soaring speeches, drop by for a visit, and then insult rural people with comments made in front of a wealthy audience.  And then, can't even apologize without somehow blaming it on the victim--"oh, sorry if you misinterpreted my comments"...

An 86% chance of winning for McCain?  Stunning problem for the supposed "front runner".

Give Missouri some respect, Senator.  Or will you say you don't need them either?


by 4justice on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nobody knows you (2.00 / 1)

He was just there a week or two ago, right in Rush's hometown.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nobody knows you (2.00 / 4)

How about giving your party's presumptive nominee some respect?  And, I/m not talking about McCain.....


United we stand, divided we fall.
by mefeck on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:41:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nobody knows you (2.00 / 1)

The 86% was for one state, Kansas....


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:41:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (none / 0)

The anecdotes are interesting, but don't seem particularly troubling. No one wins an election with 100% of the vote. It will be okay, don't worry.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:30:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

In last five weeks HRC is almost twice as strong (none / 0)

as Obama.  There were seven contests. Hillary won four. BO won 3.

In the states BHO won, he won the votes of a total

of   341,256   more people than Hillary did.

In the states the Hillary won, she won the votes of

a total of   625,144   more people than BHO won.

It is not anecdotal that in the last seven weeks, more people wanted to see Hillary become the nominee than wanted to see Obama become the nominee.  And they said so after and during the assurances of almost every voice they heard on the subject that Hillary was done and Obama had won.  And that there was NO possibility of changing it.


by itsadryheat on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:29:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In last five weeks HRC is almost twice as stro (none / 0)

Too bad the primaries didn't last just 7 weeks.


by parahammer on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:08:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Too bad people like BHO less than in March. (none / 0)

If this trend continues it means huge problems in the general and ,because to their attitude that all is right with BHO and wrong with HRC, his supporters won't see the trouble  in time to do anything to fix it.


by itsadryheat on Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:45:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (1.57 / 7)

Wow Alegre, I'm impressed, you keep outdoing yourself.  These posts keep sinking lower and lower.  KS, seriously.  Obama was never going to win KS and neither is your beloved doomed candidate.

Btw, if Obama can't win among working class white people, explain OR.


by skywaker9 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:04:42 AM EST

Also, while you're at it (2.00 / 5)

explain Montana.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (2.00 / 3)

And my lovely Wisconsin.


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:50:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (2.00 / 1)

and my lovely, white, poor, rural county in Wisconsin ;)


John McCain smells like mothballs.
by asherrem on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:55:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (2.00 / 1)

Dont forget Iowa too


A vote for John McCain is a vote against Hillary Clinton
by realistdem on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:23:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wisconsin: Only poll in May taken by (none / 0)

Rasmussen:

McCain 47       Obama 43

McCain 47       Clinton 43

If we need to quote a lot of data from the very early races, we need to add some data from more recent looks at those voters.  They have had a chance to look a little harder at the candidates since the early primaries.

Caucuses are very limited demographic indicators because their design pre-selects likely participant pools and removes the potential of so many of various demographic groups from participating.  Polls are just a snapshot in time.  But so are votes very related to the time they are cast. Both the votes in the  past and those anticipated 3 and 5 months from now. Politicians used to be interested in momentum and "staying power", fading strength and uneven polling(unless, apparently, they are superdelegates for 08)


by itsadryheat on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:45:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (2.00 / 1)

And Colorado.


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:55:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (2.00 / 1)

and Nebraska...


by elie on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:01:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nobody polls Nebraska. It's too Republican (none / 0)


by itsadryheat on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:01:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nebraska population 2007 = 1,768,331. (none / 0)

Democrats who voted: 40,000.  No exit polls.


by itsadryheat on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:06:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nobody polls Nebraska. It's too Republican (none / 0)

yes but they split their electoral college votes by congressional districts.  obama has certainly put one, if not two, in play.


by elie on Tue May 27, 2008 at 08:22:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (2.00 / 1)

and Virginia..


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:02:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (none / 0)

Don't forget New Mexico..


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:03:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (none / 0)

New Mexico, that was a cliffhanger. Thank god, they finally found the results.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:31:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton wins New Mexico in latest poll --rcp (none / 0)

Clinton 47    McCain 41

McCain 44     Obama 44


by itsadryheat on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:58:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (2.00 / 1)

And Idaho.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:37:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (none / 0)

Yes do explain Idaho, 2% less and she gets shut out there.


by skywaker9 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:02:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also, while you're at it (none / 0)

And very possibly Indiana, if the final certification of votes comes through the way it's looking to come through...


Ceci n'est pas une <<snark>>
by ipsos on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:40:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Idaho will go Republican. It has a population (none / 0)

of over 1,430,000 and the Democratic caucus drew about 20,000  voters.  There were no exit polls to indicate the demographics of the voters, but since caucuses depress the turnout of working people, older people, people who care for families, people with disabilities, limited means, or on duty in the military or traveling or temporarily living away from home.  That takes away a large chunk of voters.

 But 20,000 out of a million four hundred thousand...?

20,000 is a poorly attended Obama stump speech!


by itsadryheat on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:56:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 3)

And if he can't get through to the folks in Missouri then I'm guessing he'll have trouble in other swing states like MO as well...

Yeah... well, I suppose if he's having trouble in Missouri, he'd also have trouble in Missouri.

But Alegre, how about the fact he's polling over McCain by a winning margin, and Clinton's not, in Iowa, Virginia, Colorado, and Michigan (that's your home state, or so I'm told), and Clinton is polling dangerously close to McCain in Washington, Wisconsin, and even California? Feel free to check this on FiveThirtyEight, it's all very true.

The answer, of course, is that they both have their paths to 270, and they're different. Both are electable.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:04:57 AM EST

Cherry picking! 538 map shows Clinton way (none / 0)

ahead of Obama.

Potential  win advantage Obama over McCain 5 percentage points.  Number of votes Obama over required 270 = 2! Number under for McCain =3

Clinton win percentage over McCain 24 percentage points.  Number of votes Clinton has over the required 270 = 17.4.  Number for McCain under 270 = 20.


by itsadryheat on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:25:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This isn't a polling contest, alegre. (2.00 / 3)

It's a delegate race, and Obama's gonna have the most delegates.

Hope we can count on you to support the nominee of the Democratic party.

That's Barack Obama, by the way.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:05:10 AM EST

Ummm... You DO Understand How (1.60 / 5)

the GE works - right?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:07:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You do understand (2.00 / 4)

how the primaries work, right?

You know, with delegates?

The type you're trying to give Hillary from Michigan?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:08:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ummm... You DO Understand How (2.00 / 6)

Yeah.  It's not based on the popular vote either.  

Most winning candidates plan a strategy around the actual rules of the contest.  It's pretty crappy to not do that, then complain it wasn't fair, and then to come up with new rules that benefit you....

How can you not see that?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:10:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ummm... You DO Understand How (2.00 / 5)

You do understand that you don't get to run in the GE unless you actually win the nomination, right?


by KevinT on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:55:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (none / 0)

He's doing well in PA and OH.

Those two in the bag, and he wins.  End of story.

But with VA, CO, NM, NV, MI, WI, IA all looking good as well, we can do without MO.


by Deadalus on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:06:06 AM EST

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 13)

People will get to know Obama sooner if Hillary acknowledges that she can't win the majority of delegates and endorses him already.

Number of delegates needed to clinch
[under the rules adopted by the DNC, including Clinton staffer Harold Ickes]
Obama     49
Clinton   246

All data from: http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:06:18 AM EST

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 6)

Alegre, Do you have a problem with facts that don't support your diaries?  You seem to love downrate me, that's for sure !


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:11:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's downrated why? (2.00 / 6)

Because you don't like it?


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:33:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

alegre, you are simply an ass (2.00 / 4)

Why on earth would you troll rate this comment? There's nothing in it but objective, factual information. No opinion within sight.

Grow up.


by Bee on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:16:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: alegre, you are simply an ass (none / 0)

Bee, you asked and correctly answered your own question. Leave something for the poor diarist to do.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:36:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Buyers Remorse? (1.85 / 7)

And that ain't good.


by izarradar on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:06:26 AM EST

Re: Buyers Remorse? (1.72 / 11)

I think you're on to something here Izarradar :o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:09:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And doesn't Obama have a connection (2.00 / 3)

to Kansas?  Wasn't his mother born there?  You'd think that would make a difference, and his numbers wouldn't slip.  What about those other 56 states where he doesn't have a personal connection?


by izarradar on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:11:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And doesn't Obama have a connection (2.00 / 5)

Clinton was born in Illinois, Why couldn't she seal the deal? You think it'd have meant something.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:20:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Buyers Remorse? (2.00 / 5)

You talking about California?

Or are her wins in big states not an improtant part of the argument anymore?


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:09:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Buyers Remorse? (2.00 / 2)

What's buyers remorse? I'm at a loss to find anything that could suggest that.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 2)

Since when does either candidate put Kansas in play?  


by rfahey22 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:07:53 AM EST

Judging by so many Obama supporters (1.60 / 10)

swarming in these waters, I'd guess colleges must be out.  Isn't anybody taking summer sessions????


by izarradar on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:08:04 AM EST

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (2.00 / 2)

I teach college, but I'm going to work tomorrow. We still have meetings and I'm working on my next book.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:10:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (none / 0)

The boyzzzzzz reasoning?


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:10:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (2.00 / 5)

I thought Obama supporters were supposed to be the condescending and insulting ones. Dude, you're ruining the stereotype.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:12:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not Trying To Insult (2.00 / 4)

anyone.  Just an observation:  This site has filled up with Obama supporters, and many of the colleges are out.  Why do you find that insulting?  Is it insulting to suggest:

1)  Obama supporters might be college students.

2)  College Obama supporters are busy blogging now that they have more free time?


by izarradar on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:20:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No matter how many insults you throw, (2.00 / 1)

it doesn't change the fact that Barack Obama will be the nominee of the Democratic party. Don't get Left Behind!


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:21:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not Trying To Insult (2.00 / 3)

Ahh, well, now that you explain it, I'm sure you weren't being condescending at all. That corelation/causation thing is great, isn't it?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:23:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not Trying To Insult (2.00 / 6)

It's also possible - and I mean possible - that many Obama supporters are coming back to this site now that Obama is going to be the nominee.  It's also possible that many supporters of Hillary Clinton are now acknowledging that fact and are supporting Obama, as is indicated in basically a diary per day along with myriad signatures on this site.  It's also possible that Obama supporters do not care if someone wants to praise their own candidate but they will speak up if someone spews utter bullshit about Obama.


by Pat Flatley on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:24:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not Trying To Insult (2.00 / 1)

Dang youth getting involved again. Oh heavens, what will we adults do?


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:39:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (none / 0)

I don't understand why this comment is acceptable on this site, as the comparable analogy to Hillary supporters would likely result in an immediate banning, and rightly so.


by Pat Flatley on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:14:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (2.00 / 6)

You'd think for a guy who's supposedly got this locked up, his followers would be more laid-back.  Or at least less angry toward the rest of us.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:15:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (2.00 / 4)

I'm not angry. I'm a NY Jew and we like a good back and forth discussion. And you know what, I don't downrate people who are perfectly civil. Why do you?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:17:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (none / 0)

"Civility is overrated." Is that what Mark said?


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:41:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (2.00 / 6)

I think the only justifiable anger is for those who perpetuate disingenuous arguments and know precisely what they're doing and just don't care.  


by Pat Flatley on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:20:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, I have noticed (2.00 / 3)

many angry Obama supporters.  Why the vitriol if your candidate is "winning?"


by izarradar on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:48:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, I have noticed (none / 0)

We're trying out a new strategy that were going to use on McSame...You know the one where you love to see them struggle, like a fish outta water and you keep your foot on the gas pedal.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:51:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Mixing metaphors? (2.00 / 4)


by izarradar on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mixing metaphors? (none / 0)

That's the strategy..organized chaos


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:16:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

oooooh (2.00 / 2)

Sounds hot.


by izarradar on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:34:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (2.00 / 3)

You have a problem with young voters?


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:48:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not at all (2.00 / 2)

Some of my best friends are young voters.


by izarradar on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:35:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Judging by so many Obama supporters (none / 0)

Don't be condescending.


by RISD Democrat on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:56:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 5)

A quote from the diary:
There's still six months. ... He's gonna' have to convince me. I haven't seen it yet."

Who could have imagined six months ago that the inevitable one was not going to get the nomination and that the skinny black guy with the funny name would?  

Six months to go.
Plenty of time for Obama to show it.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:09:30 AM EST

Ok. I'm out. (2.00 / 1)


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:11:48 AM EST

Keep trying! (2.00 / 5)


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:12:22 AM EST

Lee's Summit? (2.00 / 7)

I live in Lee's Summit MO.  

Ever seen Jesus Camp?  Yeah, that church is in Lee's Summit...

Obama has incredible support in KC and SL.  also known as the part of Missouri with people in it.

p.s.  didn't Obama win the primary in MO?  this isn't a polling contest, it's a primary.  Obama won the primary.


by elie on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:12:43 AM EST

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (1.40 / 10)

So let's see....

Hillary slaughters McCain in MO, KY, PA, OH, WV, NC..

Obama can't win any of them...

But the Democrats are soooooo STUPID they vote for the one that can't win...

Makes sense to me.....

What a DUMB party.


by nikkid on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:14:30 AM EST

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 4)

If she were such a brilliant candidate, why couldn't she even win the majority of states in her own party's primary?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:15:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (1.40 / 5)

because they are done with illegal caucuses...


by nikkid on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:19:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 5)

Which caucus was illegal, by the way?  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:19:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (1.37 / 8)

Texas.

And when he bused in tons of students from illinois to vote illegally in Iowa.


by nikkid on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:21:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 3)

And your proof of all this?  You should forward it to the Clinton campaign and the DNC, after you've posted it here, of course.


by rfahey22 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (none / 0)

i did.

i was there.


by nikkid on Tue May 27, 2008 at 10:14:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 2)

And when he bused in tons of students from illinois to vote illegally in Iowa.

Evidence or retraction.  Hop to it.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:40:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 4)

Can you point out where they defied the rules of the states that ran them?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:20:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 6)

5.24.08
In Ohio, SUSA has Obama beating McCain by 9 points.
In Pennsylvania, SUSA has Obama beating McCain by 8 points.
In New Mexico, SUSA has Obama tied with McCain.
In Virginia, SUSA has Obama beating McCain by 7 points.

by venician on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:33:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 3)

Michelle Malkin, is that you?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:48:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 3)

Still thinking inside-the-box....Maybe, just maybe if she would have campaigned just a little in those tiny, red caucus states she wouldn't have had to rely on an act of God to get her the nomination.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:54:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (none / 0)

If you're going to troll, try to at least not make up your own facts.


by KevinT on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:59:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (2.00 / 1)

"But the Democrats are soooooo STUPID they vote for the one that can't win..."

Kudos for acknowledging the voters' choice.
No kudos for insulting their intelligence.

Kudos for saying what you really think of the Democrats.
No kudos for apparently not considering yourself one.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Tue May 27, 2008 at 01:45:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trouble in the Heartland (none / 0)

I don't think you have checked the polls lately - take a look at the widget.


by interestedbystander on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:10:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Concern troll Alegre is concerned (2.00 / 1)


by JJE on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:15:15 AM EST

This is what makes me sick (2.00 / 6)

"At least if Clinton was president, she'd have Bill as an advisor"

I thought she was her own woman?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:15:27 AM EST

Re: This is what makes me sick (2.00 / 3)

And I thought that the Clinton supporters were the ones who were the strong feminists....

It must be so, since she wins the traditionally progressive states like WV and KY and OK and Obama wins the anti-progressive states like WI, MN, and OR.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:19:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what makes me sick (2.00 / 3)

That's sort of sexist if you think about it.  It implies the person doesn't have a lot of confidence in HRC but it would be okay with her as POTUS because Bill (a man) would be around to advise her...Kind of demeaning to HRC...


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:56:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Selective Snipping (2.00 / 9)

Hmmm, that's some selective snipping, Alegre.

Some of the interesting parts that got "edited" out (sorry, I don't know how to use the block quote):

"Opinions about Obama are largely polarized in the state's small towns and rural areas, but there's no single reason that voters are wary of him."

Yup.  Pretty typical of Missouri.  Democrats usually win Missouri by carrying the major metropolitan areas -- sort of like Obama did in the primary.

"Obama does have some hope in these parts. He campaigned at a Cape Girardeau clothing factory on May 13, and got good notices. A lot of Clinton and Edwards loyalists said they'd probably go for Obama, if only to oust the Republicans.

Edwards' endorsement of Obama the next day was probably a bigger boost, though. It helped push Jamie Tharp, a lineman, over to the Illinois senator's side. "Now I can see he's strong on labor issues," Tharp said.

'I just think we have two good candidates running,' said Sanders, who'd backed Edwards because she saw him as strong against big business. Now she thinks Obama will have the same attitude.

'And,' she said, "he has charisma.'"


by Vivianne on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:19:44 AM EST

Re: Selective Snipping (2.00 / 4)

You broke my heart, dear diarist, editing out the parts of the article that didn't support your case.  How could you do something like that?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:22:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And by the way... (2.00 / 3)

Your story link doesn't work.  I had to go find it myself on the intertubes.


by Vivianne on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:22:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But the only parts that count (2.00 / 3)

are the parts that support Alegre's point!  

Don't you know that yet?


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:22:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As long as everyone ignores the fact.... (1.60 / 5)

...that we're yet to "hear" from about $200-freakin'-million in anti-Obama 527 money...

...as long as everyone ignores the fact of what only a fraction of that pile of cash did in terms of molding public sentiment away from Kerry in 2004 (and there was no video on Kerry, either)...

...as long as everyone ignores the fact that the Rethugs, in all their various forms, are going to do a number on Obama unlike anything this country's ever seen before (only a naive rookie could compare the relatively genteel nature of a Primary to the knockdown, dragout, no-holds-barred nature of a GE)...

Then, everything's just peachy.

Obama supporters, the day at the beach--which is what this has been whether you accept it or not--is now turning into dusk.

Reality...and you thought it was Hillary that was "the bitch."  You are so, so wrong.

Wise up. STFU. And, get ready for the sheer hell that is about to come upon us--all of us.

To prepare for anything less than this in the Fall is to be nothing less than totally unprepared.


by bobswern on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:21:43 AM EST

Re: As long as everyone ignores the fact.... (2.00 / 3)

And those same groups would go after Clinton, too.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:22:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A great deal of 527 ads (2.00 / 1)

Can be made up entirely from the vitriolic text of "pro-Hillary" websites and clips from Hillary and/or her surrogates.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:24:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama, unlike Hillary, (2.00 / 2)

will have money to fight back.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:27:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As long as everyone ignores the fact.... (2.00 / 2)

And the Republicans wouldn't have brought this to bear on Clinton? They would have run in horror?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue May 27, 2008 at 12:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As long as everyone ignores the fact.... (none / 0)

Who they have been preparing to run against for 4 years - nope, they'll have nothing on her at all.


by interestedbystander on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:17:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As long as everyone ignores the fact.... (none / 0)

And which campaign do you think is most ready for that?  The one that has got everything right so far, or the one that had no plan for after Feb 5th and thought CA was winner takes all?  I know where I'll put my faith, but thanks for your concern.


by interestedbystander on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:16:41 AM EST
[ Parent ] <