Obama supporters, lock it up!

I was at work today when this whole assassination thing started to boil over. I watched helplessly as the firestorm increased to epic proportions; unable to respond from work, and dealing with a fussy baby upon my arrival home. But I've got just one thing to say, to all of you-

Lock. It. Up.

This is a term that my leatherneck friends might be familiar with; it's a Navy term for getting yourself in gear and back on track. And I think it goes for all of us tonight.

I can understand how you feel, I'm right there with you. I remember very vividly how it was gleefully regaled to me by some of the heavyweight Clinton diehards around here that they were calling voters in PA and telling them all about what a horrible and out of touch elitist Obama was for thinking everyone was bitter, with no acknowledgment of the context.

And I had stood up to people mischaracterizing things about Senator Clinton prior to this, which made it hurt all the more. Just the weekend before, I was down in Greensboro, North Carolina, canvassing for Senator Obama, when I ran across a gentleman who indicated one of the reasons he didn't approve of Senator Clinton was her pledge to throw everyone in jail who didn't get health insurance.

This, of course, was patently false, and I corrected him. He was a little put off by it, I think- why would I be giving Senator Clinton a leg up, so to speak? But it was the truth, I knew what Senator Clinton intended, and so I did the right thing.

Then, I encountered that... and I was furious. Livid. And I swore I would never correct a mischaracterization about Senator Clinton again, and perhaps would even encourage them! Turnabout is fair play, right?

But I couldn't do it. I couldn't bring myself down to that level, and so I never did; and ended up correcting the same myth on at least one more occasion.

So I know how you feel right now. To the Clinton diehards, the expression "As ye sew, so shall ye reap" has never been more accurate. But there's lots of regular Clinton supporters out there, the vast majority of them who support her without delving into Hillaryis44-esqueness, and they knew it was stupid. But I watched some of them defend Clinton, the diehards defending her, and the statement because of the response they were getting.

So, as I said- lock it up. We're better than that- we don't need to delve into the "eye for an eye" ritual. Senator Clinton is a politician, she's been one for some time; the Clintons are known masters of invective and political language and maneuvering, and so I understand why some of you think it was a purposeful or tactical statement, or that she may actually privately wish for such an event to occur. But this ain't the case, here- it was an idiotic statement, she should've known better, yes, because she is a politician, and she's played the "gotcha" games more than once to her benefit. But that's all it is.

Again, I'm not advocating unilateral disarmament for when they spread falsities, or try to push another gaffe as The Reason Obama Is Unelectable, or spread more trollbait- I expect you to be defending our candidate with honor, courage, respect, logic, and reason. And I'll be right there beside you, don't ever doubt it. But this ain't the fight we need to be fighting.

Lock it up. We need to focus our energy elsewhere. Alright?

Peace.



Display:


Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 6)

Excellent diary - I totally agree.

This is the time to prove why Senator Obama has earned our vote.


by Pat Flatley on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:09:16 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 7)

Very good; you're, of course, 100% correct.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:10:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh... (2.00 / 1)

... dude?

If you lock it up, all that's going to happen is that a whole bunch of people are going to wander around claiming that Hillary said nothing inappropriate, and that the justified outrage is spin.

Like this one:

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/24/1 235/97627/8#8

Loonie Toons (2.00 / 1)

Olberman has turned into a total loon. I'm expecting him to rip off his clothes and start spraying people with the fire extinguisher any time now.

Hillary said nothing inappropriate. She's referencing June and using a historical event to do so. She owes no one an apology.

Half of the Democratic party moved much farther away from ever voting for Obama in a primary. And remember, he needs Clinton supporters in blue states more than Clinton needs Obama supporters in red states.

by glitterannebegay on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:30:58 AM EST


by kraant on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:41:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh... (2.00 / 2)

That seems like troll bait to me. Look at the name, too- give me a break. Again, I'm saying we don't have to say it's okay, and we don't have to engage in unilateral disarmament, but all this screaming and hollering ain't helping.

She said something idiotic- the reasonable Clinton supporters around here agree with that. This person ain't one of 'em- but just remember to take the high road. Don't stoop to their level.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:44:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hyperbole, as usual (2.00 / 3)

Clinton didn't say anything "idiotic," and no reasonable supporter, including RFK's son, took offense.

"It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense." --Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:40:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hyperbole, as usual (2.00 / 1)

At the very least, I think this kills any attempts Bubba was making to get Hillary on Obama's ticket.

It would just not be good for Obama to have a veep that is even perceived as waiting for Obama to be assassinated.


by Bush Bites on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:41:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hyperbole, as usual (none / 0)

oh so you take your 'news' "Fox-style"...


by zerosumgame on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:22:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought that Fox does great coverage... (none / 0)

...not really.

But Ed Rendell seems to think so.


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:41:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And Terry McCauliffe... n/t (none / 0)


by bookish on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:34:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought that Fox does great coverage... (none / 0)

Not great at all -- merely better than MSNBC. The best thing about this travesty of a primary season is that it finally got me to cancel my cable -- I'm both richer and happier for it.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:44:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought that Fox does great coverage... (none / 0)

The idea that MSNBC is somehow more biased than Fox is laughable.

That said, good for you for living without cable.  I think everyone would be better off watching less TV.


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:58:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hyperbole, as usual (none / 0)

By the way, the analogy isn't particularly apt.

Kennedy didn't even enter the race until March.


by Bush Bites on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:43:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hyperbole, as usual (none / 0)

So what? Her point was about when primaries end, not when they begin.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:50:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heres the problem with that (2.00 / 1)

RFK JR ENDORSED Clinton and the controversy isn't about RFK, it's about Obama.  So his "take" on the matter really doesn't matter more than anyone else's.  When one of the main memes you've been pushing as a campaign is "anything can happen" and have been racially pandering, it is completely RECKLESS irrespective of motive or intention to bring up the specter of June assassinations.  PERIOD.


by ThisPlaceIsCrazy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:46:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hyperbole, as usual (none / 0)

It was idiotic even if I also feel that it wasn't mean to be malicious towards Obama. I think it's idiotic because Hillary keep inflaming passions in a desperate attempt to make herself seem bigger. She has trotted out Jim Crow era discrimination with regard to MI and FL when everyone knows that whatever the problems are (and there are many), any disenfranchisement has to do with a pissing match between state and federal levels of the party.

Then Hillary brings up RFK assassination attempt twice in public to justify her remaining in the race. There is absolutely no reason to heighten the melodrama with such examples. Just say RFK was in the race at this point too or something like that. But both references referred to RFK's assassination alone and nothing else about his candidacy.


by Pravin on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:27:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh... (2.00 / 2)

Ah but Hillary Clinton DID say nothing inappropriate.  Bobby Kennedy Jr said that he took absolutely no offense at all at what she said--and how could any rational person do otherwise.  Damn those Obama people. They are driving us more to McCain evry day if they keep this up. And Keith Olbermann used to be (and I say used to be) a particular hero of mine but now has become a snarky little tyrant.


by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:42:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So, (1.00 / 1)

because Obama's supporters became upset at Clinton for broaching the topic of his possible assassination, you're ready to embrace McCain. Obama's supporters have driven you to vote for 100 years more war, environmental disaster, worsening education and healthcare, tax breaks for the extremely wealthy, INCREDIBLE national debts piling onto the next generation, the Constitutional criminalization of abortion, the Constitutional criminalization of gay marriage,... What else?

Is that REALLY gonna be your response? Can you POSSIBLY be that naive? I just don't believe ANY real Democrat would EVER be stupid enough to support more Bush. It's too much for me to get my head around.


by RNinNC on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:38:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, (none / 0)

It's the kind of response low-info voters make.  I assume the above poster is not a low-info voter because they are here, but something has obviously rubbed off on them from other Hillary supporters.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:13:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, (none / 0)

yep, keep on insulting half the Dem party. that will unify us right gud (I am not 100000000% BHO so I MUST be low-info and caint spull guds).


by zerosumgame on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:25:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, (2.00 / 2)

It's not my job to unify the party.  I really don't care about Hillary supporters any more.  I would still vote for Hillary if she won the nomination.  That's the difference between hardcore Obama supporters and hardcore Hillary supporters.  

You are not low-info if you support Hillary, you are low-info if you threaten to vote for McCain as a way to punish Obama.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:36:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, (2.00 / 1)

so you are admitting you are working (paid or not) for the GOP to split the party to get McSamw selected?


by zerosumgame on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:43:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, what are you doing? (2.00 / 2)

Hillary supporters who have already expressed their intention to (never vote for Obama) have moved into a position which is twice removed from legitimacy with respect to realizing the goal of electing a Democrat to the White House in 2008.

Hillary will not be at the top of the ticket, and after yesterday, she will not be the Veep candidate either.

There is no reason to try to convince you to change your minds, you've told us enough time that you won't. We believe you. We understand that you have the right to do what you want. Fine.

You can:
Vote for McCain.
Stay home.
Vote for Obama and keep it secret.
Do whatever you want.

You can't:
Scare me (or defeat Obama) with empty threats.
Make me beg.


by xdem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:24:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, (none / 0)

Right.  Because what I most want is another neo-con in the White House.

The point is, there is nothing in the world that will convince the most virulent 1% of Hillary supporters to vote for Obama.  So I'm not going to bother trying.  Consider yourself irrelevant.  


by ProgressiveDL on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:33:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's a really dumb response (none / 0)

that has nothing to do with the substance or points of the previous comment.

I give you an honorary, non-binding ::troll - 1::


by bookish on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:39:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh... (none / 0)

"Those Obama people" have been pretty classy about this.  Hell, David Axelrod defended Hillary on national TV, saying there was no ill intent.  Obama himself chose not to bring it up at the speaking engagement he did yesterday.

We didn't hear, "This comment will be troubling to many Americans who..."  We didn't hear, "Apology needed."  

They haven't gone for the gotcha moment.  If anything, I'd expect people to be impressed with this, or even appreciative if you identify with Clinton and don't like her gotcha'd or smeared.


McCain: because not everyone's ready to say goodbye to W yet!
by Matt Smith on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:05:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh... (none / 0)

I despise Hillary because of Hillary. Not her supporters. Her supporters would never cause me to change parties. I won't vote for McCain because I'm pissed at a snarky pro-Clinton comment. This election is far too important to behave like a child about it.


by kitebro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:46:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (none / 0)

Agreed . . . we don't need to fan any HRC flames. My focus has been on McCain.

The statement was unfortunate, but I am moving on.


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:42:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have very low standards for Reccing today =) (2.00 / 2)

Enjoy !!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:09:52 AM EST

Re: I have very low standards for Reccing today =) (2.00 / 1)

Gratzi.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:15:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"grazie" (none / 0)

Sorry, I moonlight as a very-rusty and half trained Italian speaker and spelling critic. ;)


by Casuist on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:18:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "grazie" (none / 0)

Heh, thanks for the correction.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:21:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "grazie" (none / 0)

I'm part Italian too.  You can just say "graz".


by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:43:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I heart ragekage!!! n/t (2.00 / 4)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:15:36 AM EST

Re: I heart ragekage!!! n/t (2.00 / 2)

You were the inspiration for this, you know; I watched you back and forth and rec whats-her-face's diary helplessly from work.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:16:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks... I can't tell you how sad that first (2.00 / 4)

diary made me. The responses from some of the Obama supporters (many who don't seem to be regulars -- I assume they hopped over from dKos) were so incredibly unfair and heartless. I almost wrote a really, really awful diary in response. I was so angry. Even considered GBCW.

But your diary helps a lot. You took it the way I'd hoped you would.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:19:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks... I can't tell you how sad that first (2.00 / 3)

Indeed. I've seen a flood of Obama supporters I don't recognize, which is odd for MyDD; we're usually such a close-knit community. I was a little perturbed at that, especially given how they were acting. I wondered where they were when I needed them to back me up against past smear jobs and such, and why they decided to descend into this firestorm.

Ahh, well, hopefully this diary'll help.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:23:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks... I can't tell you how sad that first (2.00 / 1)

What is GCBW ?


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:29:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks... I can't tell you how sad that first (2.00 / 1)

Goodbye Cruel World; something akin to, say, what Alegre did on Kos for her departure from there, for instance.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:31:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

GBCW = Good Bye Cruel World (2.00 / 2)

It's that lame last diary all the morons write when they just can't handle the blogs anymore. Basically, they're whine-fests. Or else they cuss everybody out. Either way, very lame.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:33:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah Dankershen =) (2.00 / 1)

Or rather... Danke Schon

(making fun of the Gratzi here =)


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:41:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bitte schön. (2.00 / 1)

(You're welcome.)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:49:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitte schön. (2.00 / 1)

how did you manage that umlaut ?


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:54:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitte schön. (2.00 / 1)

Just typed "schon" into google, knowing it would pull the word up properly. Then copied and pasted. I'm sure there are much easier ways, but I'm kind of stupid.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:03:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Danke schön! (none / 0)

Ah, that works...


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:05:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitte schön. (none / 0)

  glad to see i'm not the only paleo-techie round here, hehe. I still haven't learned to put in links.


by Kordo on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:02:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitte schön. (2.00 / 2)

Links on MyDD? Just use classic HTML. Make sure you're in Auto- or HTML format, and use the tag:

<a href=LINK>text</a>

So if you wanted to link to dKos, for example, you'd write:

<a href=http://www.dailykos.com>Daily Kos</a>


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:07:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Trying it out (2.00 / 1)

Thank you for that tip!  Major mojo (I always wanted to know how to do that)...

I will try it out
HERE


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:37:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bitte schön. (none / 0)

install the international keyboard on windows.  That's what I do.  

It's easy after that-

ö ä á í ç üú


John McCain
by ottto on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:04:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't know if it works on PC (none / 0)

platform, but for Macs, when you get to the letter with the diacritic, you hit option and the key of the letter that is most likely to have that particular mark (e=´, i=^, c=ç, u=¨, etc.), then key the letter you want.


by bookish on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you (none / 0)

I about lost my mind reading (supposed) Clinton followers blaming Obama for what Clinton said, or defending her reference to assassination (for the SECOND time since March), of which so many Obama supporters are terrified..

Thank you, thank you. All they need to say is that Clinton blew it, and should apologize NOT just to the Kennedy's, but to Obama, who was the target (however inadvertent) of the horror of that statement.

That said, Olbermann could have been far less vitriolic. He could have communicated the heartbreak and gravity of her choice of words without being so uncharitable.  

I am so glad the Obama campaign responded with restraint. Thank you for reminding me about troll-bait. They try to play us against each other. I won't fall for it.


by rhetoricus on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:58:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you (none / 0)

I agree.  Olbermann's tirade didn't help.  I thought he came on too strong.

I wonder, given that she didn't include Obama in the apology, if this makes it harder to talk VP with him.  I can't imagine it would be very comfortable after what happened today.


McCain: because not everyone's ready to say goodbye to W yet!
by Matt Smith on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:17:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you (none / 0)

Supposedly, the campaign is livid and absolutely horrified.  They've been living under the speter of being attacked for a long time.  This hits home hard with the Obama family!


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:23:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you (none / 0)

Supposedly, the campaign is livid and absolutely horrified.

Might you have a link?


by rhetoricus on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you (none / 0)

nytimes says:

Privately, aides to Mr. Obama were furious about the remark.

Obviously, anything talking about internal campaign chatter is going to be anonymously sourced, so you just have to trust the grey lady.


by semiquaver on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:50:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you (none / 0)

I would understand that privately they are furious.


by rhetoricus on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:14:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you... (2.00 / 1)

for writing the first diary on this subject I've yet seen that I wholly agree with


by Casuist on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:17:16 AM EST

Re: Thank you... (2.00 / 2)

You're welcome, of course.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:23:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 7)

Seriously, though, these are the moments when we can prove why we're supporters of Obama.  My dad has been pretty torn up tonight - 1968 came flooding back - but I've done my best to calm him down.  We're in this together - Obama and Clinton supporters alike - and we have presumably the same goals for our country.  Now is where we Obama supporters can show some dignity and grace.  Barack would ask for nothing less.


by Pat Flatley on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:19:00 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (none / 0)

I, personally, am just about done with most Hillary supporters.  I'm glad Obama is not, but I am.  At first it was mostly my hatred of the DLC, but now it's become entirely too personal.  


by ProgressiveDL on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:17:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 3)

I was upset by the original comment but not in the way that so many posters were, it was just unexpectedly bad judgment.  I was more upset over the streams of happily, self indulgently  furious posts by Obama supporters that followed.  

Nice diary.


by mady on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:24:59 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 1)

Thank you. Let's get our guys and gals back in order and focused in the right direction. Sheesh, it's like herding cats sometimes.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:27:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (none / 0)

Why did you consider it bad judgement ?


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:34:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 1)

It's like walking into a synagogue eating a ham sandwich.  The subject is simply taboo.  It shouldn't be touched.


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:18:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (none / 0)

Personally, I think if someone dies in June while campaigning - no matter how they died - then it's just horribly insensitive to use them as an example of a campaign that continued into June.  "Oh yeah, then there was Bob, whose campaign continued into June right up until he croaked."  Given how much more traumatic this particular death was for so many people, and the fears we all continue to have for our emerging leaders, this is just NOT imagery you want to evoke casually.

There's also protocol that guides how to speak to the media about suicides or murders, so as to prevent copycats.  And casually throwing out historical examples is not good.  I'm guessing the media is very aware of that, and that this guided some of their reactions.

There are other examples of campaigns that lasted into June.  If anyone but Hillary didn't understand which is the single worst example one could possibly offer - nobody will ever make THAT mistake again.


McCain: because not everyone's ready to say goodbye to W yet!
by Matt Smith on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:31:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 1)

PS - I don't know that Clinton is aware of suicide/violence prevention protocol, so I'm not suggesting anything nefarious there.  I rec'd this diary and agree that there's no honor in misrepresenting the true intent behind a gaffe, no matter how unfortunate.

I also think this gaffe could haunt people's memories of her campaign, given the timing of it, and I wish she'd make a stronger apology or gesture of remorse than what she did.


McCain: because not everyone's ready to say goodbye to W yet!
by Matt Smith on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:46:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Preach it! (2.00 / 3)

It goes both ways.

I've read the most hypocritical stances on this issue by
some Clinton diehards around here. What if it was Barack who comitted the gaffe?  Weeks of diaries (bittergate? fingergate?).

Imagine my surprise (not) when the Obama hit pieces were coming out less than an hour after the news broke. Attacking Obama and his campaign.

Why?

SevenStrings and canadian gal had good diaries from a Clinton prespective yet 2 suspicious smear jobs made the Rec.List.

We ALL need to focus and concentrate on the positive.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:32:13 AM EST

Re: Preach it! (2.00 / 7)

Those get on the rec list because we've got a group of Clinton supporters who mostly hop over from Hillaryis44 to ensure the rec list is stacked with their particular brand of hatred. So I suggest we play this card:


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:35:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Preach it! (none / 0)

AWSOME!


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:49:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

somewhere out there... (none / 0)

I seem to remember there being a Bill Clinton faux Magic card I found hilarious... but I've never been able to find it again.


by Casuist on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:59:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Preach it! (none / 0)

 Bwahahaha, that's a good one! I knew you were a good writer, now I see you have artistic ability as well. I'm going to try to resist the impulse to troll over to H44, and spam that in a bunch of posts. The operative term there is "try"....


by Kordo on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:14:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Preach it! (none / 0)

Here's the other underhanded way those get on the rec list.

Well, she puts out a plea for recs on the Hillary's Voice Yahoo Group for most of the diaries she puts up.

The last one was titled 'New Diary Up: Let's Knock a Bot Off the Rec List Gang!'.

I would imagine that there are those who only come to MYDD when asked to in order to rec one of her diaries. Not saying that that covers all of her recs..but, I'm sure it accounts for a fair amount.

I don't know of any Obama group that elicits recs for MYDD diaries.

by Kysen on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:09:03 PM EST

One would think the above behavior ought to be in violation of site rules for rec'ing diaries.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:35:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Preach it! (none / 0)

Nah, it's ok since they support Hillary.  If it was Obama supporters though...oh boy!


by ProgressiveDL on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:19:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Check out this gem I dug up at Hillis44 (none / 0)


---------------------------------------- -----------
confloyd Says:
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Djia, the bots not to long ago, had a real threat on the internet, when NC was going on. George Stephanpoulas was threaten. Maybe the Obama campaign wants to incite some poor unbalanced sole into assasinating Hillary. I mean, the media keeps everyone all whipped up in a frenzy, maybe Keith would like to incite that? What do you say Keith? Is that what you want? Keith was the one that said someone ought to take her in a back room and only one person comes out. Maybe thats what the media moguls want and that's why they keep trying to incite this hatred!
---------------------------------------- -----------
Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:36:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Check out this gem I dug up at Hillis44 (none / 0)

Check out the time on the comment and compare it at the site.

CRAZY PEOPLE!


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:37:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Check out this gem I dug up at Hillis44 (2.00 / 2)

It is comments like that which make me question Darwin's theory.


John McCain smells like mothballs.
by asherrem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:38:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Check out this gem I dug up at Hillis44 (2.00 / 1)

Then check out this little fantasy piece off the  hillaryclinton.com blog. Very popular, with even a few re-takes involving an even more delusional anti-women slant. Yes, I suppose I should expect no less from a campaign blog, but it was quite an eye-opener into the mindset we're dealing with.


Imagine a typical office. There is a woman you have watched work hard over the years. She's very efficient, and very diplomatic. In fact, she often gets people in the office who have different viewpoints to agree. She has experience in administration; in fact, her husband was the CEO of the company for eight years. Everyone knew she was part of the decisions that made the profitability of the company increase year after year. She was privy to the innermost secrets concerning the company, and a strong leadership voice in her own right. So she continued to work hard even after her husband left office. Finally, at age sixty, she decided to aim for the top, and she applied for the position of CEO herself. All the other women in the office applauded her. They identified with her. "Finally a capable woman who has worked hard will run the company!" they cried. But then, right before the decision was made, a man was brought in to challenge her for the position. He was young, from an exotic background, and he had a golden speaking style. He mesmerized everyone in the office, especially the men in upper management. Soon, it became obvious that the woman was not in consideration any more. The new guy, the brilliant guy---he would be CEO. Once he was appointed, the upper management gathered the women in the office together. "Don't be silly and emotional, women. You have to support our new CEO! It's for the good of the company. Sure, you're upset now, but you'll get over it." Even the woman they all wanted urged the office workers to stand in line. But there was resentment there, and anger, and most of the women in the office walked out of that office one day and went to work for another company down the street.

by RSP at 5/21/2008 4:17:52 PM

http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main /2008/05/21/200427


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:24:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Check out this gem I dug up at Hillis44 (2.00 / 1)

So apparently

  1. Hillary deserved/inherited the presidency
  2. Hillary's losing only because Obama "mesmerized" the men into becoming misogynists
  3. "Most of the women" defect to "another company down the street". I wonder what that could mean.

This, on their campaign blog no less.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:32:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Apology (none / 0)

Sorry, ragekage. Just realized that in my late night posting stupor I spammed your attempt to hold fire. Kudos to you for trying to stay positive. I'd move these posts out if I could.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:13:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Preach it! (none / 0)

Oh my, are you familiar with MtG?

That card is very funny actually.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:21:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Preach it! (none / 0)

Ahahahahah! Could this be the best comment in the history of MyDD?


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:21:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You got it.. (2.00 / 4)

...rk!!  It.Is.Now.Locked.Up.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:37:42 AM EST

Re: You got it.. (2.00 / 1)

Hoo-rah, outstanding. Roger that.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:44:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 3)

rec'd :)


John McCain smells like mothballs.
by asherrem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:55:56 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 2)

right on.  To be sure, Clinton's comments were both stupid and insensitive -- on a world-class level.  But it was really just a gaffe.

My anger is reserved for the mydd diarists who have somehow blamed the firestorm on Obama when his campaign merely said that the comments were 'unfortunate' -- which, clearly, they were.


John McCain the flip-flopper...
by chinapaulo on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:25:13 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (none / 0)

Clinton created this situation, Obama had nothing to do with it.


by skywaker9 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:51:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (none / 0)

I believe that's exactly what he was saying...


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:52:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Will try, it's hard (2.00 / 3)

Just tiresome to see the same old smears from the same OLD Clinton supporters.

Clinton inserts foot in mouth and it's Obama's fault.

Obama inserts foot in mouth and it's the end of the decency and mankind and democracy.

Thank goodness the Clinton supporters at work conceded the point eye to eye (which doesn't work on the internet).


by Regenman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:55:56 AM EST

Re: Will try, it's hard (2.00 / 2)

I know it's hard; I understand the temptation for retribution, but it doesn't do anything but debase our moral high ground. The diehards, if anything, get a kick out of bugging you, so keep that in mind. The rational ones understand, and are truly on our side- not hard, since we're on the same team.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:01:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 4)

I totally agree with you.  I don't think she meant it in the way that's being implied by some.  It was a VERY stupid comment especially given the fact that she could have used a number of examples from the last 30 years.  But I have to believe that she's not implying that he could be assasinated as a reason for her sticking in there.

What I think upset A LOT of people is the fact that in no short order some Clinton apologists attacked Obama in two diaries that made it to the rec list for something that Clinton said.  I think that's where you'll find the most over the top statements and most underserved TRs and HRs.  Especially when two high ranking Obama campaign officials go out of their way to defend Clinton and then you get certain diarists accusing Obama of using the memory of RFK for political gain, you have to expect harsh responses.

But you're absolutely right, it needs to be toned down.  We need to push unity and not go there anymore.  We need to prepare for the fall and the fight against McCain and the republican party.


by shalca on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:04:40 AM EST

Re: Obama supporters, lock it up! (2.00 / 2)

Good at ya RageKage. I knew you were not really just about a certain post that got you attacked. So this Clinton supporter backed you up. Peace and happiness to the baby and you too! Honor and Integrity are not things that should be challenged or questioned without hard evidence. We're not so strong that it ever justifies losing our own to friendly fire.  


John McCain is a liar. Erratic, poor judgment.
by Jeter on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:09:00 AM EST

Loving the faux outrage (none / 0)

This is great.  I seriously think you and your kin will be attacking Hillary until November.  

I thought there was supposed to be some sort of new unspoken code where we don't attack Democrats on this site.  I take this proliferation of anti-Hillary rhetoric as a green light to resume my elevated levels of criticisms for Barack Obama.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:17:41 AM EST

Re: Loving the faux outrage (1.00 / 2)

Resume?

You never stopped.

Why troll this diary?

It was going nice and positive till you showed up.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:23:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why are you awake? (none / 0)

I am a menopausal woman with insomnia what is your
reason
Ida B. The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane.-Mark Twain
by Ida B on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:38:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why are you awake? (2.00 / 1)

I'm 27 years old and it's Friday.  Not that I even needed to answer your question, since it was out of bounds.


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:17:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why are you awake? (none / 0)

I think you forgot the part about being a Republican and all that.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:22:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They never sleep... (none / 0)

nt


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why are you awake? (none / 0)

Are you kidding me?

I'm a gay middle-class Democrat from Eastern Pennsylvania.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:59:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why are you awake? (none / 0)

No intent to offend just curious


Ida B. The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane.-Mark Twain
by Ida B on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I completely understand your anger. (2.00 / 1)

I freaked out a little about this in TexasDarlin's thread earlier today (and nexgen's, too, I think). Actually, first I went to the original gaffe diary and went down about halfway through the comments, systematically HR'ing 95% of the Obama supporters and uprating ALL of the Clinton supporters. But then I realized that ratings abuse that extreme would probably get me in trouble (and accomplish nothing positive). So I just stopped reading.

I was livid until I saw some Obama supporters (like the diarist) start to defend Hillary. I'm still angry, but not as much. Don't use this as an excuse to let loose on Obama -- he isn't responsible for the behavior of his supporters. Be a bigger person than the asses who were calling Hillary a "sick, evil, heartless monster" this morning. Don't get down in the mud with them. We should be better than that, if we can.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:40:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I completely understand your anger. (2.00 / 1)

Thank you.  I've been mostly civil on this but I did criticize hypersensitive liberals in one of my comments.  I'm liberal too, but not hypersensitive.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:18:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Quitter! (none / 0)

Don't ever stop the ratings abuse. Hillary won't stop fighting for us, so you should not stop fighting for her by shutting out any comments that are not supportive of her.

What has happened to Hillary over this is outrageous. As others have said, this is just Obama and his supporters lashing out because they know they have lost the nomination and they just can't accept it.

Face it, people. Hillary Clinton will be the nominee and the next president. Anyone who says different should immediately be banned from this site.


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:32:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lovely. You have too much free time. n/t (none / 0)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I completely understand your anger. (none / 0)

I have to say, Sricki, the HR and posts you made at first were what freaked me out the most.  I expected all the usual crazies, but really hoped that the more reasonable people would stay out of it.  I'm kind of nervous because this episode originally showed me how tenuous any kind of détente  between Obama and Clinton supporters is, but hopeful because RageKage's diary and your responses show me there still is common gound (not to mention IDENTICAL POLICY 99% of the time...couldn't help it)
I think that we were in the same boat of thinking "this is such a non-issue" but then the responses to this non-issue (or for me, the almost preemptive responses to the responses to the non-issue) aaaaalmost made me lose it.  Anyway, I hope you don't take this too critically or anything, because I'm mostly proud of the way you bounced back.

RageKage: awesome diary.  For a while it looked like this site was going to turn into a no-holds-barred shit fight, but I'm really hopeful we can reeeel it back toward something productive.

-Ryan


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:02:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I completely understand your anger. (none / 0)

I'm not actually sure which thread you're talking about, though. The thread where I almost HR'd a bunch of people was in nextgen's diary, but I stopped myself and ended up not giving any ratings at all -- unless, of course, some of those comments were already in the hide bin. I went through some of those later. But I left that first thread entirely. I also didn't downrate anyone on oregonkcg's diary, though I made some harsh comments. Don't think I HR'd people in TexasDarlin's diary. I downrated a couple of people in alegre's diary, but I don't consider that ratings abuse. Calling Hillary "despicable" and saying she is "the hate candidate" gets you a TR. I HR'd this and would do it again:

You, Alegre, have become a person (0.33 / 6)

who is completely and totally full of hate.

What do you have for all of your efforts? Has it helped your child? What are you teaching your child? That hate is acceptable and political violence, in the service of your own goals, is acceptable?

Go. To. Hell.

You are already there.

by DrPolitics on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:03:53 PM CST

Also HR'd this and would do it again:

I'm kind of curious how many Hillary supporters, in the privacy of their own home with no one around, would privately clap or smile a sly little smile if Obama was killed...

I can think of a couple...

Hillary Clinton: This is a Race to 2025 Delegates  
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:09:26 PM CST

But aside from that person's comment and several of DrPolitics' comments (which I downrated because he was spamming the thread), I don't think I HR'd anyone. I could be wrong, however. Which diary do you think I was abusing ratings in? I was under the impression that although I'd lashed out a bit verbally, I'd managed to control myself on the ratings. If I'm mistaken, though, I'd like to know so I can keep it in mind and avoid it in the future.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:43:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I completely understand your anger. (none / 0)

Eh, I didn't mean to imply HR abuse.  Sorry bout that.

I think my sentiment was mostly that I see you and others having great reasonable conversations all the time and the fact that any of the rational crowd was dragged into this non-issue was unfortunate (maybe I was attributing things other people posted to you accidentally?).  I got a real sense that everyone who had been venturing out and engaging one another somewhere in a rational middle ground had run back to their corners.

Anyway, I got off myDD for the evening and was happy to see diaries like this and comments like yours when I peeked back this morning.

As with plenty of other Obama leaning supporters, I hold you in the highest regard for rationality, so yeah, way to go you.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:09:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I completely understand your anger. (none / 0)

Ah, yes, you're certainly right that I got pulled into the fray more than I normally would. People were saying some really hideous things about Hillary, and I lost my temper -- pretty impressive, since I'm used to it. I still hang out at dKos and was talking to someone the other day who said s/he really thought Hillary was the devil, yet I successfully ignored it and responded politely. But sometimes I just lose it -- yesterday was a horrible day for me for other reasons, so I wasn't in the mood for all the drama.

And thank you, I try to be rational when possible, but I slip up sometimes. As far as I can recall, you have likewise been a very sensible, reasonable person.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:53:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I completely understand your anger. (2.00 / 1)

I reread my first response and realized that it was a lot harsher and sounded more critical of you than I ever intended.  I myself got really heated reading some of the stuff attributing all this to Obama* and had to run away.

Anyway, so glad Obama himself said something about it (I wish this had come sooner for myDD sanity's sake, but whatever)...have a great memorial day :)

*why do we let ourselves get so worked up about what anonymous people we don't know write?  Not sure, but I think it has something to do with why we all keep coming here.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Loving the faux outrage (none / 0)

FYI, the "you" in this is not directed at the diarist.  It's a comment to Hillary-haters at large.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:23:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Loving the faux outrage (none / 0)

You need to combine an elevated level of logic to accompany your elevated level of criticism if you think this diary was somehow a slight to Hillary.


by zadura on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Loving the faux outrage (none / 0)

Did you see the comment above?

"FYI, the 'you' in this is not directed at the diarist.  It's a comment to Hillary-haters at large."


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]