Time to Take Back the White House

I will never forget election night, November 2000.   I was living overseas, hosting a party for a rowdy Democrats Abroad group.  I'll never forget the ecstasy of Al Gore being declared winner of Florida after a nail-biting night of state-by-state returns.  We cheered and jumped around like kids, dialed up relatives in the US, popped the cork...

Well...you know the rest of the story:  chads, lawsuits, Supreme Court briefs, outrage, heartbreak, regret. Mostly, though, the injustice of it all.

The injustice was wrenching.  Our candidate lost the White House over a handful of votes in the swing state of Florida even though he won more votes nationwide.  There you have it.  Reality sunk in and George Bush moved into Al's house on Pennsylvania Avenue.

That 8-year-old memory has been haunting me lately.   Because the Democratic party is poised to re-enact this farce in a case of tragic irony.  If Barack Obama becomes the nominee, it will be because party officials decide to override the popular vote -- the will of the people --  in favor of a slim lead in pledged delegates.

After the last primary on June 3rd, it's likely that Obama will lead Clinton in pledged delegates by approximately 100 out of  some 3200 total. But Clinton will be the popular vote leader, including caucus states and Florida, even excluding Michigan (where Obama removed his name from the ballot and blocked a re-vote). Following Clinton's net gain of 150,000 votes from Tuesday's contests in Oregon and Kentucky -- Clinton now leads Obama in the popular vote by over 55,000, including caucuses, Florida, and Michigan.

The  Philadelphia Inquirer analyzes the situation:

It is this looming prospect which explains the tremendous pressure Obama partisans and the media are putting on Clinton to drop out of the race. They want her gone now because they understand that she has an excellent chance of finishing as the undisputed people's choice.

Would it matter if Clinton were the undisputed (or even disputed) popular-vote winner? That's hard to say. The question is, matter to whom? The superdelegates will determine the nominee and there's no telling what will sway them. They have no objective criteria from which to make their decisions. But if they were to deny the popular-vote champ the nomination, there is a real question of whether Democratic voters would reconcile themselves to the decision. As it is, much of the talk about Democratic defections in November has been overstated.

Partisan voters almost always come home after their candidate loses. The problem arises when a candidate's supporters believe that their guy (or gal) didn't lose. Expect the chorus calling for Clinton's withdrawal to grow louder over the next week, with people insisting that she has no "path to victory."

Clinton's path is both obvious and simple: Win the popular vote and force Barack Obama and his cheerleaders to explain why that doesn't matter.

(emphasis added)

I agree with this analysis, with one strong exception.  "Talk about Democratic defections" has not been "overstated."  Party members are in denial about the rapidly expanding coalition of McCain Democrats.  Warning: ignore this phenomenon at the party's peril.

Clinton will emerge from the primary season with a compelling case for the nomination based on a healthy popular vote lead.  For Democrats un-afflicted by amnesia, the winner should be the person who gets the most votes.  And thankfully, unlike November 2000, there are superdelegates who can ensure that this time, the people are not cheated.

And one other thing, which is even more important: not only will Hillary Clinton be the peoples' choice, she will also be the strongest candidate against John McCain in the General Election, as noted by a mounting body of analysis based on surveys showing Clinton trouncing McCain in the Electoral Vote count while Obama trails him. What's most impressive about these trends is that Clinton now out-performs both John McCain and Barack Obama in state-by-state GE polls even though the mainstream media is all but ignoring her and acting as if Obama is already the nominee, and even though Obama is acting that way himself!  Imagine -- just imagine -- how Clinton could expand her lead over McCain if that head-to-head contest were the media's sole focus?  Even though Obama gets all the media bias and attention as his party's "presumptive nominee," he's still behind.  Anyone who doubts Clinton's commanding GE advantage is spell-bound by alternative criteria.

So buckle up superdelegates.  It's time to take this task seriously and do the right thing, not just on behalf of the people, but on behalf of our party.  We can take back the White House if you listen to the voters.  They know exactly what they're doing when they give Hillary Clinton decisive victories in GE battleground zones. If the popular vote winner had won in 2000, what a better world we'd have today.

Note:  popular vote and delegate statistics from Real Clear Politics.



Cross posted at TexasDarlin

TexasDarlin, all rights reserved
Not affiliated with the Hillary Clinton campaign



Display:


Re: Time to Take Back the White House (1.66 / 12)

We can take back the White House in a landslide victory with Hillary Clinton at the top of the ticket.  

Superdelegates:  don't ignore reality!


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:38:24 PM EST

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 11)

(points to scoreboard)

Uh, they're not.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:40:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 2)

Kevin Spacey, David Boies and Jeffrey Toobin last night appeared on Charlie Rose to discuss the new movie "ReCount." They had clips of Scalia's 60 Minutes dismissal, as well as movie clips. Very informative. We sure do't want to repeat 2000 by disenfranchising MILLIONS of voters this time around -- AND lose the election.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 5)

The problem with 2000 was that the Secretary of State certified an illegitimate election, not that the entire state was thrown out.

If it had been, Gore would be President, and your analogy would work.

As it is, trying to slap lipstick on the pig of the Florida and Michigan votes is EXACTLY what got us into this mess eight years ago.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:09:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 1)

The US Supreme Court ordered the vote counting in FLorida to be stopped, disenfranchising MILLIONS of voters. That's EXACTLY what's being attempted this time around, and exactly why we'll lose the White House....again.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:18:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 1)

Except that it's not the Supreme Court that's doing it, it's the Democratic Party. And it's not a Federal election, it's a Primary.


by sleepinggiant on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:27:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

Except that votes aren't counted, and voters are disenfranchised.

COUNT EVERY VOTE.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:14:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:06:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The votes have all been counted (none / 0)

We are now just arguing about how much of the delegation should be seated.  Personally, I think seating them at 50% as proscribed by the DNC bi-laws makes the most sense.  The votes of the citizens are still respected in selecting the delegates, but there is still a penalty for jumping the schedule.


by protothad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 12)

Whatever.  Meanwhile in the real world, Obama +5 in SD's today.


by interestedbystander on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:40:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (1.50 / 2)

Meanwhile, in the real world, Obama may lose California to McCain if he's the nominee.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washingt on/2008/05/can-john-mccain.html


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 11)

One poll? Six months away from the General? We're DOOOOOMED!!!!!!


CA-Pres
May 22 Rasmussen
Obama (D) 52%, McCain (R) 38%
#
CA-Pres
May 22 PPIC
Obama (D) 54%, McCain (R) 37%
#
CA-Pres
May 22 PPIC
Clinton (D) 51%, McCain (R) 39%

Next big bucket o'fail, please.


by BlueinColorado on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

PWNED! (2.00 / 3)


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:10:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PWNED! (none / 0)

Repeat after me... "it's the MAP."

CLINTON 315    McCain 206

OBAMA 242  McCain 272

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Ob ama/Maps/May23.html


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:36:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PWNED! (none / 0)

Hee hee

Here's that California poll you trying to pimp yesterday

Obama, the Illinois senator who has inched close to his party's nomination, would defeat McCain by seven points if the election were held today. New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, whose fortunes have faltered since her Feb. 5 drubbing of Obama in California, would eke out only a three-point victory, the poll found.

What happens to your map when you move CA to "toss up" for Hillary?


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:59:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ouch. Reality has gotta hurt, (2.00 / 2)

huh KnowVox?  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ouch. Reality has gotta hurt, (none / 0)

Yeah, those maps hurt your fella pretty bad.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:37:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 3)

Maybe next time you should wait for the poll results to come out before using them as evidence to support your claim. Its actually Clinton that is a lot weaker in CA.

Obama wins 47-40, while Clinton wins 43-40.


by BlueGAinDC on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:49:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 2)

I'm sure KnowVox will take that information and use it to reexamine his conclusions about this race, switching his support to the stronger candidate.

heheh... just kidding.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

Both candidates were within the margin of error. Nice try.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

A seven point MOE?

Next big bucket o'fail, please.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:00:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You ignore reality (2.00 / 7)

Hillary has no money. Worse than that she is deeply in debt. On the other hand, Obama is sitting on a flush war chest.

There is no possible way that the Super Delegates are going to side with a candidate who is broke. No chance whatsoever.


by johnnyappleseed on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:42:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You ignore reality (2.00 / 1)

WASHINGTON: Barack Obama, for the first time since he began lobbying for the Democratic presidential nomination, spent more money last month than he raised, reflecting blows from the Clinton and McCain camps questioning his patriotism and his friendships.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sto ry/0,25197,23736638-5013948,00.html


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:05:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You ignore reality (2.00 / 1)

I disagree with that conclusion.  For me personally, since the primary is over I'm waiting to donate more money so that it counts for GE funds.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:09:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You ignore reality (none / 0)

I'm not positive about this, but I'm pretty certain that you're better off donating more now, because that will count towards the primary limit but still roll over to the general.  Then after the nomination is wrapped up you can start your $2,300 counter over again.


by xeju on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:16:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your quote nicely illustrates (2.00 / 2)

how Clinton is not above using the ugliest Republican talking points.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:31:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Countering smears is expensive (none / 0)

whether those smears come from McCain or Hillary.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

$4M more out than in... (none / 0)

At that rate, he'll have to start worrying about his funds for the primaries in December or January.


by N in Seattle on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:53:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: $4M more out than in... (none / 0)

HAHAHAHA


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

compare that to 30 million in the hole? (none / 0)

Nice try...

-Ben


by Regenman on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:16:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (1.80 / 5)

TRed for undermining the legitimacy of our presumptive nominee using lies.

This is disgusting republican behavior


by CaptainMorgan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:43:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Its a candidate diary where the diarist is making (2.00 / 1)

a case to the Superdelegates to support his candidate.  UPRATED for TR abuse


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:46:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

troll diary with outright lies (2.00 / 4)

this is just another hit piece on our presumptive nominee using outright lies such as the totally dishonest claim Clinton is winning the popular vote.

when you have to lie to tell your story, it proves you KNOW you are wrong, as this diarest does.

RedState is waiting...


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:56:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: troll diary with outright lies (2.00 / 3)

NEWSFLASH: Clinton IS winning the popular vote, and after the next round of primaries the count will be even higher.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

outright lies (2.00 / 4)

Obama has a popular vote lead of hundreds of thousands, AND YOU KNOW IT.

the only way to PRETEND he doesn't is to LEAVE OUT CAUCUS STATES, and to count votes in a state where Obama's name wasn't on the ballot!

again, your open lying PROVES you know you are wrong.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton has the numbers (2.00 / 3)

In most inclusive count, Clinton has the numbers

Lost in the excitement of Barack Obama's coronation this week was an inconvenient fact of Tuesday's results: Hillary Clinton netted approximately 150,000 votes and is now poised to finish the primary season as the popular-vote leader. In some quaint circles, presumably, these things still matter.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/2 0080523_In_most_inclusive_count__Clinton _has_the_numbers.html


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Post the entire quote... (2.00 / 4)

Oh, let me do it for you: Real Clear Politics keeps track of six versions of the popular-vote total. They are, in ascending order of inclusivity: (1) the popular vote of sanctioned contests; (2) the total of sanctioned contests, plus estimated votes from the Iowa, Nevada, Maine and Washington caucuses; (3) the popular vote plus Florida; (4) popular vote plus Florida and the caucuses; (5) the popular vote plus Florida and Michigan; (6) popular vote plus Florida, Michigan, and the caucus estimates. After Tuesday, Clinton now leads in two of these six counts. If you believe that the most important precept in democratic politics is to "count every vote," then the sixth category is the most inclusive, and here Clinton leads Obama by 71,301 votes. Of course, this includes the Michigan result, where Sen. Obama had removed his name from the ballot. So while it may be the most inclusive, it may not be the most fair.
I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post the entire quote... (none / 0)

Yes, please post the entire quote:

If Clinton were to win Puerto Rico by 20 points she would pick up at least a 400,000-vote margin. This would allow her to swamp Obama in the popular-vote counts, which include Florida, making her the leader in four of the six permutations of the popular vote.

To understand how razor-thin this majority is, consider that if the Puerto Rico turnout is slightly larger than we have imagined - or Clinton's margin is slightly greater - then Clinton would finish the primary process leading in every conceivable vote count. With two million voters, a 28 percent victory would put Clinton over the top even in the count, which excludes Florida and Michigan and includes estimates for Obama's caucus victories.

It is this looming prospect which explains the tremendous pressure Obama partisans and the media are putting on Clinton to drop out of the race. They want her gone now because they understand that she has an excellent chance of finishing as the undisputed people's choice.

>


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:15:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are intellectually dishonest (1.00 / 1)

First off, your link isn't to a neutral polling service, it's to an editorial by a Clinton Supporter.

Why don't you just link to Foxnews you buffoon.


by Regenman on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Deal with the FACTS (none / 0)

The link from the Philly Inquirer.

Sorry, but Obama.com isn't my exclusive source of information.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:41:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: troll diary with outright lies (2.00 / 5)

the nomination is decided by delegates.

The end.


by eeruck01 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:05:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And remember (none / 0)

The election is decided by the electoral college. Period.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Ob ama/Maps/May23.html


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Saying that Hillary is winning the popular vote is (2.00 / 1)

not TR worthy- even if you disagree with that permise with every fiber in your being.  The diarist uses a civil tone,  presents his case with facts (which you have the option of disputing or not).   And no, its not a hit piece at all.  Its a diary that makes a case for the diarist's candidate.  


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:09:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

complete dishonesty is troll worthy (2.00 / 2)

i cannot deal with these peole who will look you straight in the face (or the keyboard) and tell outright lies.

any calculation that leaves out states with contested elecytions (caucus states) and counts ones from UNCONTESTED elections (Fla, Mich) is patently dishonest.

but here's the real problem: YOU KNOW YOU ARE BEING DISHONEST.

again, i just don't know how to deal with people who will lie to your face, when you & they both know they are lying.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:36:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ummm... (none / 0)

because they're NOT lying.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:44:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think you are lying... (none / 0)

One assumes you believe what you say, but I do wonder how you justify counting MI and leaving out caucus votes.

I mean, really, if the argument is that the popular vote is a better measure of the will of the people, how is it at all accurate to assume nobody in Michigan supports Obama?


by protothad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:35:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its a candidate diary where the diarist is mak (2.00 / 2)

Bullshit... she's spreading lies in an attempt to de-legitimize our canidate


by CaptainMorgan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Last time I checked, Hillary is a Democrat.... (2.00 / 2)

and she is making a similar case that the diarist is trying to make.  Do you consider Hillary Clinton a troll???????????

Just because you don't agree with someone, or their argument, does not mean that its a TR.  

I thought that TB wrote a diary called "MY DD GUIDELINES DELUXE" last week explaining all this.  


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 3)

please stop doing this.  people are entitled to their opinions and BO is not even calling himself the presumptive nominee.  in the meantime it would appear that you are engaging in bullying.

if you dispute the content in the diary - then do that - no?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:55:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 3)

Um... she's lying and comparing this to the 2000 election is absolute garbage.

If people start believing these lies it could damage our chances in the fall.

The last 8 years have shown the danger of not fighting lies


by CaptainMorgan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 2)

im not saying i agree with what you are saying, but if you disagree with the content of this diary - THEN LAY OUT YOUR ARGUMENT.

TR or calling a diarist a liar does nothing for you or the Democratic party.  no?  instead it comes across as bullying and not very polite.  my 2 cents.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (1.00 / 2)

Texasdarlin is a known racist so she doesn't deserve any politeness.. however perhaps the TR was a waste


by CaptainMorgan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:20:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree with you in principle (none / 0)

But I have witnessed an annoying pattern in which:

1. A Clinton supporter makes outrageous claims about the popular vote, FL & MI, etc.

2. Someone asks that person to address points that seem to contradict those claims.

3. The Clinton supporter ignores those requests and simply repeats their claims (often in a new diary or comment thread).

While I don't think this is TR worthy, it is rather frustrating.

Please understand I do not accuse all Clinton supporters if this, but there are a few on this forum who do it quite regularly.


by protothad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:43:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fair enough... and I am not one of them. (none / 0)

But I have also witnessed a pattern in which:

1. An Obama supporter makes outrageous claims about the race being over or makes personal, character assassinations, etc.

2. Someone asks that person to address points that seem to contradict those claims.

3. The Obama supporter ignores those requests and simply repeats their claims (often in a new diary or comment thread).

And more aptly and relevant to the comment I responded to the spamming, bullying and personal attacks on diaries that they dont agree with that do not address the content.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:28:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

True enough (2.00 / 1)

Some of my fellow Obama supporters are just as prone to annoying behavior.  I am hoping sanity returns when the nomination completes.


by protothad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:01:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 2)

Uprated for TR abuse.


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:59:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 3)

Troll rated by Captain Morgan...wtf?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:50:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You have every right (none / 0)

to respectfully state your case, which you did. The facts are there has never been a Democratic nominee for President who didn't have both a majority of delegate votes and popular votes, and unlike in the general election, superdelegates are free to evaluate and base their decision on any basis they choose.

Good diary, thank you. Rec'd.


by phoenixdreamz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:58:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You have every right (2.00 / 2)

And after this election there will still never be a democratic nominee who did not win both.

Obama has done that despite an amazing opponent.

Beating a candidate as great as Clinton is an incredible victory that gives his candidacy extra legitimacy.


by luckymortal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:02:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's a troll diary (2.00 / 3)

and it is dishonest.

sorry, i came to this diary because i hoped you were writing a substantive Democratic diary based on the title. then i read the same hit pieces on Obama and outright lies about the popular vote. so since this diary unfairly bashes our presumptive nominee and help the ReThugs, unfortunately, i had to TR it, too.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:01:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it's a troll diary (2.00 / 3)

NO.  I am not a troll and it's not a "troll diary."  It's called discourse and dissent.  Democrats are supposed to embrace that.  Stop spitting on other users, for gosh sakes.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:07:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it's a troll diary (1.53 / 13)

Actually you are a troll and a racist liar to boot

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/04 29/mystery-man-obama

There's all the evidence I need.... you should be banned from this site


by CaptainMorgan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks for posting that link (2.00 / 2)

it really says it all about this diarist's motivations.

i'm ashamed to share a home state with her.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:23:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: home state (none / 0)

I don't think TD lives in Texas.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:36:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: home state (none / 0)

That's why we call her SoCalDarlin.


by interestedbystander on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow another baby (none / 0)

Sandy1938... does your hide rate mean you support racist nonsense also?

I rmeoved my initial troll rating by the way


by CaptainMorgan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:31:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ewwwww... (2.00 / 1)

Followed the link.

Now I have to go apply Clorox to my eyes.

Really nasty stuff.

Dumb rhetorical constructs, too.  Along the lines of the infamous question: "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Couching the allegations and innuendo as 'innocent' questions is pitiful, too.

(I wish I could uprate your comment, but ...)


Guess I HR'd someone that I shouldn't have (wish I knew who/how/why, but no admin will talk to me). Have a positive thought instead.
by Robert in WV on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:38:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ewwwww... (none / 0)

Followed the link.

Now I have to go apply Clorox to my eyes.

Really nasty stuff.

Dumb rhetorical constructs, too.  Along the lines of the infamous question: "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Couching the allegations and innuendo as 'innocent' questions is pitiful, too.

(I wish I could uprate your comment, but ...)


Guess I HR'd someone that I shouldn't have (wish I knew who/how/why, but no admin will talk to me). Have a positive thought instead.
by Robert in WV on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:39:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ewwwww.... (none / 0)

Followed the link.

Now I have to go apply Clorox to my eyes.

Really nasty stuff.

Dumb rhetorical constructs, too.  Along the lines of the infamous question: "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Couching the allegations and innuendo as 'innocent' questions is pitiful, too.

(I wish I could uprate your comment, but ...)


Guess I HR'd someone that I shouldn't have (wish I knew who/how/why, but no admin will talk to me). Have a positive thought instead.
by Robert in WV on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:42:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oops (2.00 / 1)

Sorry for the triple post.

The server kept telling me that I hit preview too many times and did not appear to be posting the comment.

After a flushing all cookies and temp files and a reboot, I saw the comment three times.

I apologize.


Guess I HR'd someone that I shouldn't have (wish I knew who/how/why, but no admin will talk to me). Have a positive thought instead.
by Robert in WV on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

Please say hello to Tattoo and Mr. Roarke while you're there.


by eeruck01 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:01:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, SDs. Pay attention to the polls. (2.00 / 4)

Two new, and several recent (w/ trends):

NEW HAMPSHIRE: Rasmussen. 5/21. Likely voters. MoE 4% (4/30 results)
Obama (D) 48 (41) 
McCain (R) 43 (51)

OHIO: SurveyUSA. 5/16-18. Likely voters. MoE 4.1% (4/11-13 results)
McCain (R) 39 (47) Obama (D) 48 (45)

Colorado: SUSA: 3/17: 46 McCain, 46 Obama
5/19: 42 McCain, 48 Obama

Oregon: Rasmussen: 3/26: 42 McCain, 48 Obama
5/7: 38 McCain, 52 Obama

Pennsylvania: SUSA: 2/26-28: 47 McCain, 42 Obama
5/16-18: 40 McCain, 48 Obama

Virginia: SUSA: 4/11-13: 52 McCain, 44 Obama
5/16-18: 42 McCain, 49 Obama

Missouri: SUSA: 3/14-16: 53 McCain, 39 Obama
5/16-18: 48 McCain, 45 Obama

Jerome, it's time to change the map....


by bookish on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:03:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

Conan O'Brien joked: "In a speech this past weekend, Hillary Clinton said John McCaain couldn't be more out of touch. Then she said, 'if you would excuse me I'm about to win the democratic nomination,'"


The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. -- Thomas Jefferson
by pollbuster on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:30:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 2)

Hi TD,

May I once again direct your attention to this post of yours, wherein you approvingly quote a SD saying that they're not bound by the popular vote, and that it's good news for Clinton?

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/04 03/hillarys-winning-coalition-mydd-reco mmended-list-selected-for-hillaryhubcom

The problem with your diaries is that your use of purely expedient arguments, to be discarded as soon as they no longer accord with your view of reality, is so transparant.

Best,
-- Koan


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:51:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Quite right! (2.00 / 8)

And thankfully, unlike November 2000, there are superdelegates who can ensure that this time, the people are not cheated.

I hear 40 of them are waiting in the wings to endorse our nominee. In fact, I just heard from one today:

   "This is the most important election of my lifetime. While I continue to greatly respect and admire Senator Clinton and feel she has made history with her campaign, I believe that Senator Obama will inevitably be our party's nominee for President. He has proven himself to be a thoughtful, knowledgeable, and inspirational leader and will take America in a new direction, which we desperately need.

   "The Bush Administration has been a huge disappointment. Mr. McCain, while certainly an American hero, represents more of the same failed Bush policies.

   "I am deeply concerned about the contentious primary campaign and controversy surrounding the seating of delegates from Florida and Michigan - two states Democrats need to win in November. I will not support changing the rules in the fourth quarter of this contest through some convoluted DNC rules committee process. Yet, we must find a resolution to seat the Michigan and Florida delegates so these states' voters are represented at the Convention. I believe we need to avoid this potentially divisive situation by uniting behind one nominee and bringing the party together immediately. Therefore, I have made the decision to support Senator Obama at the Democratic Convention in my role as a super delegate."

This is excellent news! For Democrats!


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:40:03 PM EST

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 3)

FL and MI will be resolved and we will take back the White House, as well as expand our majorities in Congress.

It's going to be a great year!

Two more weeks and we'll have our presumptive nominee, instead of just our likely nominee.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:40:05 PM EST

Don't ignore reality!! (none / 0)

Hear! Hear! <eyeroll>


by rf7777 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:41:52 PM EST

Yawn. (2.00 / 1)

Has SoCal Darlin checked out the blogs today?

40 California Super Delegates are reconsidering their position.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:45:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama Loses CA? (2.00 / 1)

Better watch out. The LA Times is getting ready to report the results of an Obama/McCain matchup with a "surprising" result.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washingt on/2008/05/can-john-mccain.html


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Loses CA? (2.00 / 1)

You got creamed on that point upthread.

CREAMED.

Thanks for playing though!


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:13:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Loses CA? (none / 0)

The poll shows both candidates within the margin of error.

Not to mention, the electoral maps show Obama losing -- resoundly.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Ob ama/Maps/May23.html


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 4)

Aren't a teeny bit bored with these repetitious diaries?  This one is a whole lot like Alegre's rec list one from last night.

Well, I guess it was decreed that this was the theme of the day, so you folks are doing it!

Enjoy!  I have a life to lead - start of Memorial Day weekend.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:43:26 PM EST

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 1)

If you repeat something enough, it becomes true to you.


by rfahey22 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:45:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

Like the guy down at the bus stop.

"I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!I am Jesus!"


by rf7777 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:48:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 3)

Great to see New Hampsters incredibly offensive memorial Day diary has been deleted.


by interestedbystander on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

Damn it!  I missed it.  Was it a doozy?


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 1)

Unbelievable.  Pictures of grieving widows at the graves of soldiers, talk about their sacrifice, which would all be in vain if we don't COUNT THE VOTES FROM MI/FL!


by interestedbystander on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:55:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 4)

Wish I could have seen it.  Sounds like a great diary (for me to poop on).


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:00:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 1)

Maybe he'll post it at Hillary's Bloggers.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 2)

lol! Triumph! Mojo'd!

On that note. It was one of the most shameless and offensive diaries I haver ever seen. It even had the picture of a grieving widow.

Disgusting.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:06:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 1)

To the contrary, it was a great diary designed to help us remember the importance of Memorial Day.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:12:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

You would say that.

See my sig.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:15:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

You would say that. See MY sig line.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:43:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You go to the creationism museum? (none / 0)


by Regenman on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:27:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 1)

Why was it deleted then?


by wasder on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:22:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

Hampster deleted it because a MyDD user violated the rules here and posted his real life name, address and phone number.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

The weird thing is that they seem to be out of sync today.  Today's talking point for Our Girl is "make me VP or I'll be very mad," not "omg popular vote!"


Can't rec or rate -- next username, please!
by neeborMolgula on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:27:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

OIbviously you haven't read the latest:

In most inclusive count, Clinton has the numbers
By Jonathan Last

Lost in the excitement of Barack Obama's coronation this week was an inconvenient fact of Tuesday's results: Hillary Clinton netted approximately 150,000 votes and is now poised to finish the primary season as the popular-vote leader. In some quaint circles, presumably, these things still matter.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/2 0080523_In_most_inclusive_count__Clinton _has_the_numbers.html


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:45:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

Indeed not.  Thanks for the update, though this sort of mixed messaging seems less than effective...


Can't rec or rate -- next username, please!
by neeborMolgula on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:09:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Opinion letter not remotely fact (none / 0)

Try again


by Regenman on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:28:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Totally factual. (none / 0)

Try again.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:48:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 7)

There's no such thing as a 'McCain Democrat.'  What a crock of shit.  


by Lawyerish on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:47:16 PM EST

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 1)

...Yes.He.Will.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:47:25 PM EST

McCain Democrats (2.00 / 1)

Quote someone not named Taylor Marsh on that topic, and then we can discuss


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:49:08 PM EST

Re: McCain Democrats (2.00 / 4)

I just hit that link.

Taylor Marsh?

Couldn't quote the toolbag that is Mr.Johnson from Noquarter?


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:02:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain Democrats (none / 0)

heh...you said "toolbag"...heh heh...


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:23:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 2)

When I saw the headline, I hope to open and read - Time to Take Back the White House... by supporting Barack Obama our nominee.

Maybe I only have to wait another week or so for it.


by chewie5656 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:50:20 PM EST

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (none / 0)

From this diarist?  It will be a cold day in hell before SoCalDarlin writes a pro-Obama diary.


by interestedbystander on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 4)

Somehow I got the feeling that, despite the title, this diarist wasn't going to call for Democrats to unite behind our nominee...


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:52:28 PM EST

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 3)

But didn't a part of you hope against hope, even for a second, that one of these diarists that turn out the same diary every   single    day would have come around?  I did :(


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:59:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thank you (2.00 / 2)


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:53:08 PM EST

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 1)

healthy popular vote lead?
yeah, right.

Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:57:33 PM EST

The supers have given Hillary (2.00 / 2)

The supers have kindly given Hillary all the time they could.


by luckymortal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:58:27 PM EST

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 8)

I would have no problem telling Clinton supporters why the popular vote doesn't matter in this case, and that is because there is no way to accurately measure the popular vote in this case. In 2000, all states voted using the same system, so it was one person one vote. Here we have caucus, primaries, prima-caucuses etc. Michigan's popular vote is not countable here because one of the two combatants between whom we are trying to decide was not on the ballot (regardless of why). So how do you decide the popular vote?

Secondly, would you Texas, have been bummed if John Kerry had beaten Bush in 2004? It came down to a dispute in Ohio that, had it been decided in Kerry's favor, would have awarded him the presidency despite the fact that he lost nationwide by 3 million votes. I don't think you would have been crying about this.

Thirdly, Clinton's campaign agreed with everyone else that this was a delegate race from the beginning. So why now are we hearing all these arguments about a popular vote contest?


by wasder on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:59:41 PM EST

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 2)

To say nothing of the precedent is sets for a Clinton-McCain contest.

Hillary Clinton: Unbeatable When Unopposed!!

Are they under the illusion that he'll be taking his name off the ballot? Not campaigning against her? worried about hurting the feelings of her supporters?


by BlueinColorado on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:02:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to Take Back the White House (2.00 / 2)

This diary adds nothing.


From a Hillary supporter: We laughed as that became our mantra - "Barack can't win!"..... ....."he can go to hell and i'll pay for his way there."
by Cochrane on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:00:31 PM EST