Virginia is a Swing State

Quinnipiac has released numbers out of Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio pitting John McCain up against either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. According to the surveys, Clinton performs better in these traditional swing states than does Obama, leading McCain outside the margin of error in each state while Obama holds a statistically significant lead in just one (Pennsylvania) and trails within the margin of error in the other too.

But what, exactly, is a swing state? Just the states that in the last couple of elections were close between the Democrats or states that would in the event of a McCain-Obama general election match up would likely be close?

Take for instance Colorado, where John Kerry improved on Al Gore's 42 percent in 2000 by pulling in 47 percent of the vote in 2004. Obama has held an average of a 4-point lead in the state over McCain in Rasmussen Reports surveys this year, and led by 9 points in a SurveyUSA poll as well.

Or look at Virginia. Though no Democrat since Lyndon Johnson has carried the state in a presidential election, Gore lost it by 7 points in 2000 and Kerry lost it by 8 points in 2004. And this year, polling decidedly shows the commonwealth to be on the map in the event of a McCain-Obama race. A week and a half ago I noted Rasmussen polling putting McCain up in Virginia, though well within the margin of error. Today, SUSA puts Obama in the lead by an even larger margin (though still not a statistically significant one):

SurveyUSA for WDBJ and WJLA, 600 RVs, 5/16-18, MoE +/- 4.1%

John McCain (R): 42 percent
Barack Obama (D): 49 percent

Does this poll mean that Obama is destined to carry Virginia in a general election? No. But does it mean that Obama can make a race out of it in Virginia? No doubt. And putting 13 electoral votes in play is nothing to sneeze at. What's more, with the trend in the commonwealth fairly clear -- Democrats winning gubernatorial contests in 2001 and 2005, a Senate election in 2006 (and another likely in 2008), and the state Senate in 2007 -- Virginia looks like particularly ripe territory (similar to Colorado, which has also seen shifts in control of the state legislature, the governor's mansion and congressional representation, as well as Iowa and a few other states).

Or to put it more concisely, Virginia is a swing state.

Update [2008-5-22 16:19:57 by Jonathan Singer]: Of course it bears repeating (though I mention it in this post) that Barack Obama's lead in the commonwealth is within the margin of error of the SUSA poll -- just as McCain's lead is within the margin of error in the Rasmussen poll and the VCU poll. That, in a nutshell, is the point of the post. Not that Obama is leading, but rather than in poll after poll the race is within the margin of error -- a telltale sign of a swing state.



Display:


Re: Virginia is a Swing State (2.00 / 3)

VA is another reason the mydd "Obama will lose" crowd isn't based in reality.

Regardless, polls this far out don't mean much.


I voted for Hillary!
by deepee on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:41:45 PM EST

I rather start out with a lead. (none / 0)

especially in a state, where we're usually always out of contention.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:52:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

VCU Poll of Yesterday - McCain UP 8 pt (none / 0)

The SurveyUSA poll for Virginia is clearly an outlier not supported by any previous polling in the state.

The Virgina Commonwealth University (VCU) poll came out yesterday with these results:

Virginia: McCain vs. Obama VCU McCain 44, Obama 36 McCain +8.0

I trust the home state polling firm as well as all the other polls showing McCain with a solid 6 to 10pt lead in Virgina.

McCain is a Navy veteran, war hero, popular in the northern Virgina suburbs, and Scots-Irish where he will sweep rural and western Virgina with massive percentages.

Obama has zero chance in Virginia and it is NOT a swing state.


by minnehot1 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:14:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: VCU Poll of Yesterday - McCain UP 8 pt (none / 0)

You are exactly the kind of person I am talking about.  "OMG!  Obama will lose EVERYWHERE!  Everything that shows him losing is right!  Anything showing otherwise is wrong!"

It's almost like you guys are EXCITED by the thought of him losing.


I voted for Hillary!
by deepee on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:37:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Who is stronger in swing states" (none / 0)

varies totally depending on what you call a swing state.

Taking the data from 538, I very simply put in the margin of the closer candidate to McCain (if one won, and one lost, the margin is 0), and who was closer, along with the states' EVs.  Who collects more EVs varies depending on what the margin for "swing state" is.

If your max margin for a swing state is 3 points, it's

  1. O 90 - 95 C
  2. 104 O - 95 C
  3. 107 O - 110 C
  4. 117 O - 110 C
  5. 117 O - 121 C
  6. 137 O - 144 C
  7. 165 O - 156 C
  8. 170 O - 190 C

It's never much off and who's "better" varies on where you place your cutoff line.


by Rorgg on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:16:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Who is stronger in swing states" (none / 0)

Exactly.  Here's what the VCU political director said:

"Many political observers have been looking at Virginia as a potentially tight general election race," said Cary Funk, Ph.D., director of the Commonwealth Poll and associate professor in the L. Douglas Wilder School of Government and Public Affairs. "Despite the recent success of Democratic candidates such as Tim Kaine in 2005 and U.S. Senator Jim Webb in 2006, the presidential race in Virginia at present is looking mostly like years gone by," Funk said.
 http://www.news.vcu.edu/news.aspx?v=deta il&nid=2508


by katmandu1 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia is a Swing State (none / 0)

The rules of the game have changed fundamentally in this election year. Only one candidate has shown true mastery of the political landscape.


John McCain Hates Poor People
by pneuma on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:41:53 PM EST

By winning Caucuses? (none / 0)


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:51:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

By winning the nomination. (eom) (2.00 / 1)


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:54:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By winning Caucuses? (none / 0)

With all of her experience, resources, and advantage, he still beat her. It doesn't matter if it was by caucus or pistols at twenty paces, he did. That shows political acumen that is unmatched by anyone.


John McCain Hates Poor People
by pneuma on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:55:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By winning Caucuses? (none / 0)

and more primaries, and more votes, and more supporters...


by Jay R on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:12:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let it ride, I say (2.00 / 3)

We're going to make a play for as many states as possible this time.  No more lazy strategies trying for Ohio and Florida alone: Spread the eggs among the baskets, and we'll have several baskets with cute little birds by this fall.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:45:09 PM EST

This is so silly (2.00 / 2)

next you'll be saying Obama is electable.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:50:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not talking about electability (none / 0)

I'm talking about cute little chicks.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:55:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shhhh - you'll break alot of illusions. (2.00 / 2)

► Loooking Goood, Pennsylvania!


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:49:47 PM EST

Re: Shhhh - you'll break alot of illusions. (none / 0)

The interesting thing about these SUSA surveys is that Sebelius and Hagel generally torpedo Obama's chances in every state whereas Edwards adds 7-10 points to his margin.  OTOH, while Huckabee is generally a little better for McCain, his choice seems to matter far, far less.

I would love to see how an Obama/Clinton ticket fares.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:58:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia is a Swing State (2.00 / 3)

Turnout of AAs could make the difference, especially if enthusiasm for McCain remains weak among evangelicals. These turnout models are based on prior elections, which have limited credibility in a race involving the first potential AA president. If Obama can bump AA turnout by 20% or more, Virginia is definitely in play.

The military vote in Virginia could be interesting, as well. If Obama can deny McCain overwhelming support from military families, then I think he can win Virginia. He certainly shouldn't concede that vote and should campaign with Webb in those military-heavy areas of the state (in addition to the appalachian parts of the state).


by DPW on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:51:09 PM EST

Re: Virginia is a Swing State (2.00 / 2)

Considering the rumors of McCains short list for VP,  I'm hard pressed to see how the religious wing of the party is more up for grab than ever before. Factor in Obama's playing up his personal faith and the growing trend among the right towards general disgust at what the traditional bastions of the religious right have become, and we really might pull down significant numbers there.


by werehippy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia is a Swing State (none / 0)

Agreed.  The only chance McCain has to grab the evangelical vote as effectively as they did in previous cycles would be to pick Huckabee as his running-mate.  Any other choice is going to be political suicide.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:55:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

not gonna happen (2.00 / 1)

wall street and the neo-cons loath Huck.  they don't want Huck anywhere near the oval office.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:04:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not gonna happen (none / 0)

And the religious right hate the bulk of McCain's short list.

Especially for Huckabee to not even make it to the short list, the whole thing reads as a pretty explicit slap in the face to one of the three  pillars of the party. It's one thing to not take someone that appeals to that constituency, it's another to not even consider giving them a seat at the table.


by werehippy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

not a SINGLE Fundie (2.00 / 1)

I was watching Screwball last night, and Buchanan was going through his list of McSame Veeps, and even confederate Pat did not list a single fundie - not one.  

Not even Huckster (his omission really stood out).  

The fundies will revote if a plastic flip-flopper like Romney is on the ticket.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia is a Swing State (none / 0)

McCain has just "rejected" the formal endorsement of John Hagee (breaking news). If this gets enough play it could weaken him even more, although that's not clear. Conversely, it could strenthen some of his independent appeal. We'll see how it plays out.


by DPW on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia is a Swing State (2.00 / 3)

I would love to see Virginia go blue....especially after seeing Webb win in 2006.  

Now, onto to Missouri


by Deadalus on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:51:15 PM EST

VEEP stakes (none / 0)

does this increase the chances of Gov Kaine and Sen Webb?


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:54:27 PM EST

Re: VEEP stakes (none / 0)

Kaine...no. Virginia would then have a Republican Governor. Webb...maybe. But I don't think he's the strongest. Plus it puts his seat up in 2010 instead of two years later during a Presidential push.


by applejackking on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:12:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great point (2.00 / 2)

The winning maps are likely to differ for Clinton and Obama.  He puts VA, IA, CO, NM into play, but has greater chance of losing OH/PA/FL.  She puts WV, AR, NM into play, but might struggle to hold OR, WI and MN.  

I've always thought that her map is stronger - part of why I support her -- but Senator Obama has a clear path to win.


by activatedbybush on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:57:00 PM EST

Not True (none / 0)

Obama leads McSame by 17 points - just look above.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:59:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Polls now not worth much (none / 0)

the victory maps will be different, but will lead to victory nonetheless


by activatedbybush on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great point (none / 0)

I think that any two candidates "put NM into play."

We like close elections lately.


New Mexico politics from the local perspective.
by fbihop on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:00:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

True true - I gave em both NM (none / 0)


by activatedbybush on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:17:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He has to win a bunch of states to make up! (none / 0)

Virginia=13 EV;OH=20;PA=21;FL=27;


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:57:59 PM EST

Re: He has to win a bunch of states to make up! (none / 0)

Polling shows him up in PA.  CO and VA add up to more EVs than OH, and he's not down by much in OH or FL anyway.


"I will veto every single beer!" -- John McCain
by fwiffo3 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:04:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Definition of a Presidential Swing State? (2.00 / 1)

New Mexico.

Just sayin.


New Mexico politics from the local perspective.
by fbihop on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:59:31 PM EST

NM has voted with the winner every time (none / 0)

Since being admitted into the union, NM has voted with the winner every time, except 1976 (51-49).  

that's an amazing track record 23 of 24 elections.  

Obama currently leads NM by 9 pts.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:01:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NM has voted with the winner every time (none / 0)

Well, we voted for Gore in 2000 by 300 and some votes.

So, technically, we voted for the loser in that year.

Also, a SUSA poll shows Obama tied with McCain, 44-44.


New Mexico politics from the local perspective.
by fbihop on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:35:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia is a Swing State (2.00 / 1)

It is not just the Presidential race that is important. We need 61 real Dems in the Senate..
Obama can help this along. Colorado will add EV's and a Dem seat with Udall and a big turn-out.
The DLC formula is over...

"Every District, Every State" ...Dr. Dean


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:01:32 PM EST

Re: Swing States (none / 0)

May 22, 2008

Results from the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University polls show:

Florida: Clinton tops McCain 48 - 41 percent; McCain leads Obama 45 - 41 percent;

Ohio: Clinton beats McCain 48 - 41 percent; McCain tops Obama 44 - 40 percent;

Pennsylvania: Clinton tops McCain 50 - 37 percent; Obama leads McCain 46 - 40 percent.


by moevaughn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:06:50 PM EST

Re: Swing States (and if I may add) (2.00 / 1)

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200 8/05/22/polls-clinton-does-better-in-the -swing-states/

The headline on today's CNN Political Ticker story is:

Polls: Clinton does better in the swing states


by katmandu1 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:18:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

SUSA: Obama leads McSame by 17 points (none / 0)


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New Math (none / 0)

As Tom Lehrer used to sing -

Virginia plus Colorado
Got the electoral votes
Lots more than Florida and Ohio

New math - - -
13 plus 9 -
Take away 27 plus 20 -

Gives Obama a net gain of 15!!


by johnnygunn on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:07:15 PM EST

Re: New Math (none / 0)

Ohio won't mean much in 4 years....

We're going to lose at least 2 electoral votes after the next census.  In 2020, we'll be lucky to only lose 3 more.  PA will be worse,.  WV will be almost completely depopulated when the seniors die off.  MI will lose 2 guaranteed this census, and may lose 4 more by 2020, when the state's economy is in ruin by the complete collapse of the big three.

Young people aren't staying around here anymore.  There is no opportunity.  The only thing holding the population are the old folks and minorites.  Once they die, minorities will dominate these states (except WV)....  Do we really want to alienate that demographic this year?  I think not!


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:14:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia is a Swing State (none / 0)

another good case for taking it to Denver - more recent polls. Maybe he'll turn out to be a blow out in swing states against McCain, which would make me feel a lot better if he's selected by the super's to be our candidate for the GE.  (there are so many reasons to let them keep campaigning, so much we might learn that would help us unite behind the winner.)  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:16:51 PM EST

O/T why is Wisc rated a loss on the EC Map? (none / 0)

3 of the last 4 polls (all four by different polling outfits) have Obama in the lead.  The only one showing McSame in the lead, is the GOP leaning Rasmussen Reports.  

That's 3 polls to 1.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:30:41 PM EST

Re: O/T why is Wisc rated a loss on the EC Map? (none / 0)

They release a new MN poll that has both senators beating mccain...they show what Jerome wants them to show is all I can guess even over his protests to the contrary


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Either way (none / 0)

This is a great poll with a low margin of error and a lot of cross tabs.  Good work, Quinnipiac.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:56:39 PM EST

Reverse Coattails. (none / 0)

Can states like Virginia and New Mexico benifit from reverse coattails in which the Democratic candidates for the US Senate Mark Warner and Tom Udall are favored win the general election from their home states by landslide margins


by nkpolitics on Thu May 22, 2008 at 07:21:20 PM EST

Re: Reverse Coattails. (none / 0)

worse case, massive dem senate wins in swing states (VA, CO, NH) and house wins all over the country will hopefully pull obama over the finish like with truman in 48.  he barely won (pop vote)but it was such a massivly dem year, he was pushed ove the edge.


Mccain/Palin '08: Grandpa's losin' it.
by Doug Tuttle on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:25:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.