You do realize it was Team Hillary who disenfranchised FL and MI, right?

I've come across this talking point so many times it makes my head spin,"Obama doesn't want to count every vote!" and "He's the one disenfranchising MI and FL voters."

Well, not so.  Wanna know who punished those states?  The majority was Team Clinton, that's who.

From an article at Slate

On Aug. 25, when the DNC's rules panel declared Florida's primary date out of order, it agreed by a near-unanimous majority to exceed the 50 percent penalty called for under party rules. Instead, the group stripped Florida of all 210 delegates to underscore its displeasure with Florida's defiance and to discourage other states from following suit. In doing so, the DNC essentially committed itself, for fairness' sake, to strip the similarly defiant Michigan of all 156 of its delegates three months later. Clinton held tremendous potential leverage over this decision, and not only because she was then widely judged the likely nominee. Of the committee's 30 members, a near-majority of 12 were Clinton supporters. All of them--most notably strategist Harold Ickes--voted for Florida's full disenfranchisement. (The only dissenting vote was cast by a Tallahassee, Fla., city commissioner who supported Obama.)

Translation, Team Clinton had the opportunity to make them count and chose not to.  It was a conscious choice.  She went into it knowing full well what was going down and everyone agreed.  

From Clinton -

We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar.

Seriously, does this need to be printed on formal letterhead?  It's spin.  I don't blame her for doing it, it's what she needs to do to try to convince supers to vote for her - which, you all do realize ain't gonna fly - but to see people fall for this hook line and sinker without question is unfortunate.

I understand supporters are passionate, but I think that when you back your candidate you have a responsibility to learn as much as you can about what it is they are actually saying.  You should by all means put your passion behind them, but the "snark" you're getting from a lot of people - some of whom also supported Hillary - is coming from understanding not only what she is saying but also what motivates her to say it and how she contradicts a good deal of her actions.

I don't have Hillary hate, but I admit I'm growing weary of the spin, especially because it's preying on people who genuinely are supporting her for what they believe are the right reasons.



Display:


Re: You do realize it was Team Hillary who disenfr (2.00 / 2)

Ickes also participated in designing the order of the primaries as well


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:50:41 AM EST

Yep. (2.00 / 1)

He sure did.  I'm really loathing Hillary playing the victim card to people who really so believe her.  I went into this liking her quite a bit but these past few weeks are really making it harder and harder for me to say that.  


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:52:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You do realize it was Team Hillary who (2.00 / 2)

Ickes disappeared from the official Clinton history of this campaign long ago.  The new puppetmaster is Donna Brazille, who singlehandeldy beguiled the R&B Committee into stripping the states of their delegates.


by rfahey22 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:55:03 AM EST

Re: You do realize it was Team Hillary who disenfr (2.00 / 3)

I wonder how much longer Hillary supporters are going to continue hiding under the "disenfranchisement" argument.

Its so clear that this is completely political and part of a do-anything-to-get-elected strategy. I mean, this defines that strategy.

When its important to keep IA, NH, SC, and NV happy, vote to strip FL and MI of their delegates.

Then, when it the only way you can win is seating their delegates, claim that they were disenfranchised and save democracy by fighting to get them seated.

And its not like both groups were Hillary supporters. They are the SAME hillary supporters.


by BlueGAinDC on Thu May 22, 2008 at 11:57:34 AM EST

I know, lol (none / 0)

And to be fair it's easy to get caught up in the spin and the hype and not be able to look objectively at the entire situation and say, "Hey....wait one minute..."

But yeah, what you said.


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Thu May 22, 2008 at 12:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Desperate times (none / 0)

Desperate times call for stupid acts.  Why do I say stupid?  Given the body of evidence which shows that she and her surrogates played a key role in this, she comes across as looking even more opportunistic than normal.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Thu May 22, 2008 at 12:01:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0)

And it's so blatant it's scary.  


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Thu May 22, 2008 at 12:03:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

It's blatant here, but nary a peep on the MSM.  


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 12:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

such a winding road..... (none / 0)

your claim that her supporters should have voted against their independent judgement and effectively biased the committee, seems like flawed logic. by your logic, the memebers of the committee should have lobbied for HRC's campaign stance opposed to their own conscience...(i would think that seriously unethical by committee standards), and futhermore that all HRC supporters shares the same views as the campagin... frankly that is not always the case

Of the committee's 30 members, a near-majority of 12 were Clinton supporters.

I understand your arguement that because her suporters on the committee voted for the penalties that ultimately the Clinton campaign also agreed with the penalities, but I respectfully disagree. I realize you may paint me as naive or silly but your arguemet seems to be based on speculation as to why the committee members voted the way they did,


by alyssa chaos on Thu May 22, 2008 at 12:24:32 PM EST

Re: such a winding road..... (2.00 / 2)

I like your argument in a vacuum and on principle; but at a DNC R&B meeting, I have a tough time accepting that anybody is voting their conscience and against their candidate.  This is, at its heart, a political machination attended by professional political operatives.  If you wish to impart a suggestion of fairness and high-minded principles to those dealings, I will have to go as far as naive.  

The DNC is major league political hardball, and I don't believe anybody there is working for the good of the country.  It's all about power.  Who has it, who wants it, how can they get it.  Call me cynical, but I doubt an altruistic act has ever occurred there.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 12:54:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: such a winding road..... (none / 0)

alright fair enough, I appreciate the arguement you presented.

I find fault with the diary and you, in respect that you'll never know why they voted the way they did unless they tell you outright and even if they did, they could be lying. All you have to go on is the reasoning that because they were her supporters thy would have pushed her agenda, that very well may be the case, but for the diarist to some how state "AHA This clearly points to it" is far from the truth.

you are guessing as to why they voted the way they did. You are filling in the blanks however you see fit. It is not a science or even supported by fact, its opinion and assumption.

It could very well be true and can just as likely be false. we will never know. and thats why it is ultimately flawed and unarguable.

thanks rb608.


by alyssa chaos on Thu May 22, 2008 at 01:25:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: such a winding road..... (none / 0)

True enough.  We can't know.  I'm all in favor of what the Democratic Party represents as an entity, and how that manifests itself in policies that benefit the American people; but my default perception of political dealmakers individually is obviously not generous.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Thu May 22, 2008 at 01:36:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama Refusal to "Re-Enfranchise" (2.00 / 1)

The bottom-line is that a record turnout of nearly 2.5 million voters in MI/FL voted for their nominee choice regardless of whose "fault" it was that the votes were so scheduled . . .
 . . . Obama's refusal of a revote to facilitate a new "legitimate" (in his thinking) verdict, does nothing to "ENFRANCHISE" their votes, rather quite the opposite.

2.5 million voters, through no fault of their own, are told their vote doesn't count - how would you feel if you lived and voted in MI/FL? . . . Many feel that Obama refused to Re-enfranchise their right to vote.


If you had everything, where would you put it?
by wasanyonehurt on Thu May 22, 2008 at 12:30:09 PM EST

The hypocrisy of the Clinton campaign (none / 0)

knows no bounds.

It's amazing that she claims the mantle of "count every vote" when she never planned on any states votes mattering if they happened to fall after February 5th.


by highgrade on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:39:05 PM EST


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