Ted & Hillary - On Trying to Save Us from Jimmy & Barack

The sad news of Ted Kennedy's recent diagnosis is causing many progressives to reflect on Kennedy's marvelous public service. And for those that remember 1980, the similarities between Kennedy and another icon of the Democratic party - Hillary Clinton - are unmistakable.

It was in 1980 that President Jimmy Carter swept through many early primaries. But as the process played out, Carter's weaknesses came to light. Kennedy came on to claim many later primaries.

The mood of the country and polls indicated Carter was nearly unelectable, but the Democratic party apparatus clung to him. Knowing the disaster awaiting in the fall, Kennedy charged ahead and fought. Even with Carter holding a huge delegate advantage, Kennedy bucked the system.

He mounted a rules challenge to allow pledged delgates to vote for any candidate. Saving the country from Reagan was more than worth it. If only he had prevailed.

Twenty eight years later, another icon is trying to save us from a candidate that has faded down the stretch. Doubts have risen and polls are red flags for Obama. But like Carter, he is enabled by a party apparatus afraid to make a bold move. We can hope Clinton has the courage to fight the entire way, and the superdelegates find the courage to act.

Otherwise, we may well find ourselves with two icons having never been in the Oval Office and standard bearers like Obama and Carter on the scrap heap of history.



Display:


Icon? (2.00 / 7)


   and you call us cultists? My goodness.

  Not to mention using the tragedy that hit Kennedy to make a point smearing Barack Obama is completely classless.

 


by southernman on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:23:02 PM EST

Sorry Trolls (2.00 / 3)

This is going to end in a few weeks.  It's not going to the convention.  Sorry to disappoint all the Republican trolls out there.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:23:49 PM EST

Re: Sorry Trolls (none / 0)

you can believe we are Republican trolls if you wish.  But in November you will find out otherwise.  You will be wondering where all those votes went that Obama was supposed to deliver.  


by WolfmanJack on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:10:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry Trolls (2.00 / 1)

If you think John McCain is a better candidate than Barack Obama in November than you should vote for him. Not sure why you were for Hillary in that case, but to each their own.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:21:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry Trolls (none / 0)

Oh no, the real Rethugs will be happy if your prediction comes true.  They are salivating to run against Obama.


by Montague on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:12:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry Trolls (none / 0)

That's why they keep attacking Hillary! To make Obama look stronger so they can trounce him in November!

oh..... wait a minute.... they never mention her..... haven't in months.....

Gee, you'd almost think they'd been trying to tear him down now so that they could run against her in the GE. You'd almost think there were some issues they thought might be successfully exploited, the kind Obama can't talk about for fear of offending Clinton voters that McCain won't be so worried about.


by BlueinColorado on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:32:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry Trolls (none / 0)

You don't even make sense.


by Montague on Thu May 22, 2008 at 02:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry Trolls (none / 0)

I imagine a lot of things don't make sense to... some people.

Let me spell it out to you: B.L.O.W.J.O.B.S.


by BlueinColorado on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Everytime you write a diary (2.00 / 8)

It's 30 seconds of comedic gold. I get that grin from ear to ear and just heartily laugh as I read a mix of radical Clinton support blended with Republican talking points and a loose reiteration of  history.

So luzly, man.

Thanks.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:24:07 PM EST

Re: Everytime you write a diary (2.00 / 1)

Warning: every time this diary is recommended, God kills a puppy.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:26:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What a disgusting diary (2.00 / 6)

Might it be worth mentioning who Kennedy has endorsed?  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:24:21 PM EST

Don't even take him serious, rofl. (2.00 / 4)

There's 600 extremists who populate the four or five sites that trash Obama. I see them at Hillaryis44, NoQuarter and it's the same bullshit everywhere.

Just laugh at it - you have to. 600 losers running around whining and thinking they're some sort of majority? 600 pathetic individuals who believe they've discovered some startling fact or reality that will convince people to think otherwise?

I mean, these people are delusional. And everything they write is seriously some of the funniest shit I've ever read.

They take themselves so seriously and try to write in iambic pentameter, occasionally making a rhyming couplet or witty saying like "STOP THE DRAMA, SAY HELL NO TO OBAMA!"

I wouldn't be surprised if they mimicked the Paultards and tried creating a Clinton community where only Clinton supporters can live.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

not to be oversensitive, but.... (2.00 / 0)

You know, I agree with your point, but I personally don't like the epithet "tard".

One of my friends is a real "tard", and I don't mean that in a snarky way.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, alright. (2.00 / 1)

It's so difficult to keep track of all the things that offend people -.-.

I was just trying to be funny, so I apologize good sir or madam.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ah, alright. (2.00 / 0)

Yeah, I know.

I can't help being PC sometimes, even though I'm not a fan of it.

Been appreciating your comments lately.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:09:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ah, alright. (2.00 / 1)

If this is so difficult for you to keep track of, I have a suggestion for you:
Stop name calling.

That's the one way to guarantee you're not offending anyone.


by LakersFan on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:22:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't even take him serious, rofl. (none / 0)

600? My god, can it be so many?


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:24:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I actually just checked (none / 0)

Hillaryis44andI'mTheQueenofEngland

and it's the same 10 people who contribute about 300 comments.

They're MAD AND THEY WON'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:31:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What a sick thing..... (2.00 / 1)

...to use Kennedy, who endorsed Barack Obama, who is desperately ill, in this kind of manipulative crap.  


by mady on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:27:12 PM EST

Re: Ted & Hillary - On Trying to (none / 0)

Doubts have risen and polls are red flags for Obama.

Are we talking about the poll where he leads McCain by +3 nationally, the poll where he leads Hillary by +11?


by mattw on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:28:29 PM EST

Eyes on the prize (1.33 / 6)

Clinton polls far better in electoral match ups with McCain. And this is before any October surprise on Obama.


by Michael Begala on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:30:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rofl. (none / 0)


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eyes on the prize (none / 0)

Not really. Depending on the metrics you use, Clinton may enjoy a tiny fraction of an edge at the moment, although the past couple weeks has been about the only time that has ever been true. WV bounce?

Look at the pollster.com averages - Clinton is +1.5% over McCain, Obama +1.1%. That's not a statistically significant difference. Over the longer term, Obama's head to head has been much better.

Electorally speaking, I like to track Poblano's info. Clinton is having a large bounce right now, and leading Obama in GE electoral estimates for the first time since I've been watching his updates, but the difference is extremely marginal.

When the GE battle is joined, all bets are off regardless. I'd much rather see Obama continue to tie McCain to Bush and be the "change" candidate, than see Clinton try to argue she's the more experienced leader than McCain. I think it doesn't matter; I think McCain has had a free ride and in 2 months he'll be -10%.


by mattw on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:49:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ouch (2.00 / 0)

I'd like to give our little troll friend a great big October surprise.

He won't even have to wait until October.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:12:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kennedy voted against war authorization (none / 0)

The key difference between Kennedy and Clinton is that he has been solidly anti-war and Hillary Clinton enabled the war by voting for authorization. If Hillary had followed his lead she would have deservedly won the nomination. Instead Democrats have looked for someone who wishes to change the mindset of American foreign policy to less beligerence and more negotiation. That is why Barack Obama will be our nominee and why Ted Kennedy has endorsed and campaigned for him.


by berkeleymike on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:28:53 PM EST

barely 24 hours (2.00 / 2)

Barely 24 hours have passed and the Repub trolls have already started capitalizing on the most devastating news in our nation.

Wow,  now I know Begalla is a republican.

NO Democrat would ever be so callous,  even Taylor Marsh had an instant ban on anyone trashing Kennedy's tragic condition.

Leave it Begalla and assholes like Michael Savage to rob us of all humanity: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21 /michael-savage-mocks-ted_n_102818.html


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:29:19 PM EST

Trash Kennedy's condition, you should be banned (1.00 / 2)

I totally agree.


by Michael Begala on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:32:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trash Kennedy's condition, you should be banne (none / 0)

Thats what you are doing you dispicable man.

You would not have written this POS diary last thursday.

I don't believe in god, but I do believe in justice.  Hopefully it finds you one day.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:36:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can Obama recover from his nosedive?!?!?!?!? (none / 0)

Thanks Jerome. Glad we can now count on you to reign in the more fanatical Clinton supporters!


by animated on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:29:43 PM EST

Seriously. Just laugh it off. (none / 0)

The dude's not worth even taking serious. The sooner you start laughing at these people, they quicker they'll realize they won't get the rise they're seeking.

Just a simple "lol" or "rofl" and be on your way.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:32:02 PM EST

Re: Seriously. Just laugh it off. (2.00 / 0)

LOL!

ROFL!

Hey! You're right!

Hold up, eeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiii


Obama/Clark (still dreaming)
by spacemanspiff on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:06:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ted & Hillary (none / 0)

Eh, I give you a 2/10 on the troll. Pretty weak.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:35:40 PM EST

Funny.... (none / 0)

Funny how Ted kinda endorsed Obama isn't it?  Troll.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:41:47 PM EST

What a load of crap (none / 0)

Kennedy kept going because he thought Carter was unelectable?

Bullshit.

The 1980 challenge wasn't about electability -- it was ideological.

This may come as a shock to you, but Carter was considered rather conservative, much to the consternation of Democratic stalwarts in the liberal northeast.

Kennedy's challenge was on ideological grounds.

I didn't agree with it then (nor do I know) - but you're flat out lying.


by zonk on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:42:19 PM EST

Come on.. (none / 0)

...Michael, screw this...You are diverting from McCancient's talking points on the blogs today...stick to the script...Oh god if finds out you aren't listening his head might explode and Cindy's gonna hear it..Get with it...

The Issue: Time for Solutions
John McCain will put the national interest ahead of partisanship, he will work with anyone who sincerely wants to get this country moving again. If John McCain is elected President, the era of the permanent campaign will end. The era of problem solving will begin.


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:45:06 PM EST

Re: Ted &amp (2.00 / 1)

I don't see how "reflecting" on Kennedy's life-including his 1980 run for President-is in any way disrespecting Senator kennedy or "exploting" his condition.

It IS appropriate to reflect at this time. And this IS pretty much what happened in 1980. And Carter DID go on to lose.  

That said, either Hillary or Obama will have trouble winning in November with only 1/2 of the party supporting them..  They BOTH have liabilities in the general election.  I think Obama will lose as Carter did in 1980, and for some of the same reasons, being portrayed as "weak", "wimp", "not a regular guy".  (The "latte-sipping,  etc has been added recently).  Several states have rejected Obama by wide margins (but in fairness several states have rejected Hillary as well).  Over at Redstate, they are calling Obama "Macho Bambi".  Wait until they find something that sticks.   Not so different from Jimmy Carter.

Not so different from 1980. Not so different at all.  But the Democrats never learn.


by WolfmanJack on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:47:58 PM EST

Wait till they find out Senator Obama (2.00 / 1)

had to kill a vicious, mutant swamp rabbit with his bare hands.


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wait till (none / 0)

for those who don't know, Carter was in a small boat and was attacked by a rabbit, a "swamp rabbit" whatever that is.  

It made him look ridiculous. Who gets attacked by a rabbit?. Aided by the media 24/7 cycle of course. (Actually then it wasn't 24/7)


by WolfmanJack on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:05:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wait till (none / 0)

The "600" have been searching far & wide for the white rabbit. it's the only chance the Clintons have left.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow you actually thought about the article (none / 0)

and made sound comments. Thank you.


by Michael Begala on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rofl. (none / 0)


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pppbbbbbbbbbt! (none / 0)


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:16:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To the hills, comrades! (none / 0)

Oh no!

They're making up nicknames for Obama at Red State?

I just wet myself from fear.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:15:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ted &amp (none / 0)

Over at Redstate, they are calling Obama "Macho Bambi".  Wait until they find something that sticks.

Yes, we should all take our cues from the sophisticated political scientists over at RedState, 'cause they're like swing voters who would totally vote for Hillary if she did another shot or went snow-mobile hunting or something.


by BlueinColorado on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow are people touchy (2.00 / 1)

This diary is stating the obvious, that this campaign bears many similarities to the 1980 campaign.  A candidate, though the nomination lay mathematically out of reach, nevertheless ran a spirited campaign against the frontrunner and won several primaries down the stretch.  The principal in that race has been in the news this week, and to say that the 1980 presidential campaign is NOT a significant part of Kennedy's legacy is disingenuous.

Despite polls indicating race was "too close to call", Carter went to crushing defeat in November.  


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:12:34 PM EST

Rofl. (none / 0)


Commissar: Canadian Gal; Proletariat Policemen: ragekage, Lord Hadrian. "For the Proletariat!"
by Lord Hadrian on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

THE race (none / 0)

Wow, leaving out a definite article gives a sentence a whole other meaning..


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow are people touchy (none / 0)

This diary is stating the obvious, that this campaign bears many similarities to the 1980 campaign.

Yeah, and the electorate and geo-political climate is just like it was in 1980, so saying Obama is like Carter (the evidence being that you say Obama is like Carter) is really relevant and insightful!!


by BlueinColorado on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:37:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow are people touchy (none / 0)

The 2008 race is like the 1980 race.  In 1980, you had a candidate seemingly hopelessly behind (according to THE MATH) continue to campaign and win primaries.  This is similar to 2008, whether you like it or not.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:43:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow are people touchy (none / 0)

She's not "seemingly hopelessly behind", it's over. Obama has the pledged delegates. The Supers are not going to overturn that.

She may "keep campaigning and winning primaries", but Obama also wins primaries. In bigger states. I know the "anti-Hillary" media ignores North Carolina in favor of Indiana, and Oregon in favor of Kentucky, but the party isn't.

It really is over.


by BlueinColorado on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow are people touchy (none / 0)

So you agree that her position is analogous to Kennedy's in 1980?


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow are people touchy (none / 0)

In case you didn't notice, I was pointing out that I said the 2008 race was like the 1980 race.  Decide for yourself which candidate is analogous to which.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:44:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow are people touchy (none / 0)

Nonsense re 1980.

Carter lost the general election as an incumbent to someone who could ask, as Reagan did, "Are you better off now . . . ?" Change won.

There was an Iran hostage thang, too. Hi gas prices.

All of these big picture factors argue for a Democratic victory in November.

Change will win this year, as it did in 1980.


Visit DebateScoop
by demondeac on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:40:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BREAKING: troll writes troll diary (none / 0)

Forecast for tomorrow: more trolling with 90% stupidity.


by JJE on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:21:52 PM EST

Might want to mention how that all turned out (none / 0)

Kennedy had the most ingracious moment of his career. He lost his convention bid, and Carter lost the election. Nice road you're advocating.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:23:22 PM EST

Re: Ted & Hillary - On Trying to Save Us (none / 0)

Kennedy lost at the convention.

Carter, weakened by the fight, lost the election.

No modern candidate who had to fight it to the convention wound up winning the election.


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:23:57 PM EST

This diary is recommended? (none / 0)

Why?  What is the point of this diary?  

When I read this diary, it says Jimmy Carter was bad, and so is Barack Obama.  

The idea is posited that Hillary is winning some primaries because Barack is seeming worse now.

There is, however, no support given to support this idea. I'd be curious to see what sort of substantial, real support the author can generate.


John McCain
by ottto on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:34:24 PM EST

Eight Recommends!? (none / 0)

Is that normally the number of recommenders a diary needs here for it to make the rec list?  That's really kind of sad.


John McCain
by ottto on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:36:09 PM EST

Only a republican troll (none / 0)

Would try to use Ted Kennedy's health to try to make a political point about the primary.

Ted Kennedy himself has already spoken quite loudly about who he thinks should be our next president... and I'll give you a clue: it's not Hillary Clinton.


by Tatan on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:45:26 PM EST


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