Texas Caucus Fraud (Updated)

Following my friend Lois Capps' endorsement of Barack Obama, it became clear that I had done her and other delegates a disservice by not disclosing information I witnessed at the Texas caucuses, and that endorsements should be made with the benefit of this information. After her endorsement, I wrote to Rep. Capps so that she can be fully informed in the event that delegates are forced to shift from one candidate to the other as the party forms a consensus behind the stronger of the two candidates.

I need to point out that I am not on the Hillary for President campaign staff, and that the campaign has gone to significant lengths to keep this dirty laundry out of the press. However, it is my strong feeling that we should not withhold evidence of crime, particularly since it is inconsistent with the public Obama image of being above "anything it takes to win," and it sheds significant light onto the otherwise puzzling difference between the popular vote and caucus results. Here are excerpts from my letter to Rep. Capps.

I was a volunteer field organizer in El Paso, Texas and investigated irregularities for three weeks after the election.

As a Democratic Coordinated Campaign Regional Director in 1996 and as a volunteer on campaigns in the 1990s, I have the ethical obligation to report what I saw in Texas.

When California 22nd CD Republican candidate Tom Bordonaro famously tried to suppress the vote by phone banking under a false name, many of us in the Capps campaign immediately said that we would walk away from a campaign if our side were similarly unethical. That moment kept replaying through my head election night in El Paso. Simply put, the Obama campaign made Tom Bordonaro look ethical.

Lois Capps is correct when she wrote that Sen. Obama is inspiring. However, many of the actions of his campaign that I witnessed and investigated are criminal.

I know this information is jarring, and puts DNC delegates in an uncomfortable situation, but if the time comes for delegates to endorse or get behind a consensus candidate, this information should be available. As I wrote to Rep. Capps, I apologize for not illuminating this earlier.

My observations in Texas were that caucuses were broadly illegitimate. In a few well-run counties, Hillary's caucus vote was the same or better than the popular vote, but in chaotic counties, she fell behind by double digits. While Texas is the only state to have both a binding popular vote and a caucus vote, we saw similar results in Washington State, where Obama's numbers plunged in the unofficial primary compared to the caucuses .

This stands out: only four major Texas counties were orderly enough to report most of their caucus results election night, and in three of these, caucus preference mirrored the popular vote (HRC popular/caucus): El Paso (69/75), Austin/Travis (37/34), San Antonio/Bexar (56/57). In the case of Austin, I have read reports that that both sides ran their caucuses well.

These counties had exceptional organizations, but it should not take heroics to run a fair election.

On election night in El Paso, it became obvious that the Obama field campaign was designed to steal caucuses. Prior to that, it was impossible for me to imagine the level of attempted fraud and disruption we would see. It was far worse than any GOP campaign I have organized against on the Central Coast, worse than Tom Bordonaro's, worse than Andrea Seastrand's, worse than the Dole campaign whose supporters vandalized our headquarters.

We saw stolen precincts where Obama organizers fabricated counts, made false entries on sign-in sheets, suppressed delegate counts, and suppressed caucus voters. We saw patterns such as missing electronic access code sheets and precinct packets taken before the legal time, like elsewhere in the state. Obama volunteers illegally took convention materials state-wide, with attempts as early as 6:30 am. Some of this was presented in a press release from Clinton Campaign Counsel Lyn Utrecht, but I witnessed worse than what she disclosed.

In one example of fraud that I witnessed, one of my precinct captains, an elderly Hispanic woman, called me to report that BHO supporters had illegally seized control of the convention. During our series of phone calls, Mrs. "A." reported that the Obama people took the convention materials and did not have a legal election of officers. Like nearly all of El Paso, BHO people would have lost such an election in this majority-Hillary, Hispanic, mostly elderly precinct convention.

The Obama people ordered Mrs. A. to sit across the room during the delegate calculation, and excluded Hillary supporters from the process. Mrs. A. overheard an Obama supporter call in a false delegate count to Austin. In a 13 delegate precinct where Obama should have won approximately 4 delegates, the Obama supporters attempted to award 19 delegates to Obama. This was not innocent. During my attempts at cell phone diplomacy, the Obama "chair" hung up on me, and refused to talk to the ethical Obama organizer I was paired with at another precinct convention. As with all major attempts at fraud that we identified, this delegate count was rectified in private at the county TDP headquarters, according to TDP rules, but there were no public charges or sanctions. It is my opinion that people should be in jail, but there is not a mechanism for this sort of prosecution, certainly not within TDP rules.

Although I have only volunteered in one state, virtually every Clinton staffer I have talked to has similar stories from other caucus states. While the Hillary field campaign operates and feels very much like typical Democratic campaigns, the Obama campaign is something new to Democratic politics. From my perspective, it looks like it has copied the worst attributes of Republican campaigns, but with unprecedented zeal.

Ironically, only in very well-organized areas like El Paso were we able to even identify the scale of the attempted irregularities. In these areas, we were also able to rebuff most attempts at fraud, correct fraudulent delegate counts, and protect our voters. In less well-organized areas, we did not have enough eyes and ears to identify or stop fraud, and our numbers plunged.

Although affidavits have not been made public, I have copies and records of the voter complaints for which I did interviews. Although the Hillary campaign has not gone public with evidence of fraud, the national legal team has approximately 200 such affidavits and 2000 voter complaints. The campaign intends to win the popular vote without airing these charges in public, but I suspect the campaign will provide authorities with this evidence upon request.

My own sense is that this information should not be withheld from delegates, since it both casts the Obama campaign as stunningly unethical, and it severely undermines the general credibility of caucuses. It also points out that perception and reality are upside down. The campaign that will "do anything to win," including the illegal acts documented in affidavits, is not Hillary's.

In fact, I was as proud of the integrity and transparency of the Hillary campaign in Texas as I was of the Capps and Clinton/Gore campaigns of the 1990s.

I would be happy to share records in my position with appropriate authorities.

It is true that elements of the Obama campaign appeal to our better angels, but, in the moment of truth when the Obama campaign echoed Republican Tom Bordonaro's, I made the personal decision that Sen. Obama cannot be our nominee.

I am positive that any Democrat who witnessed what I did would stand against Sen. Obama now, and I have faith that some endorsements like Rep. Capps's are temporary. This is wrenching for a Democratic activist like me who has served on county and Assembly District committees, but I cannot support a candidate with a criminal campaign.

Here at MyDD, I'll try to make time to answer factual questions

7:42 (pacific) Housekeeping note: I have to leave right now, but will check back in this evening.

Update 1

There have been some good question in the comments.

In this one, there is the question about a challenge by Obama supporters, lawyer/judge Don Williams. My position is that the rules should be followed, and the process be as transparent as possible. I understand that 77% of UTEP sign in sheet preference was for Hillary, after there were a few correction related to fraud from Mr Williams' side. I understand this challenge should be resolved by the state credentials committee, along with a large number of other challenges, prior to the Austin convention. As I understand it, the challenge states that the rules in the nominations committee at UTEP were misinterpreted. But what I saw was fraud, not a difference of opinion about convention rules. I would support any legitimate adjustment to delegate counts, be it from a correction of fraudulent sign-in sheets, or a correction of a faulty ruling.

This post raises a lot of good questions, too many to handle adequately without a new diary:

I've yet to hear any verified account of fraud. Two months, but nothign. Why after going for a month and half now on Wright do think the media would just shut out any attempt to challenge the legitimacy of the caucuses? Where is the reporting?! Why is it that you saw this, but no reporters, police officers, judges, lawyers or others who would be compelled to speak up about it and document it?

If there is evidence of this I want to hear it. This would be criminal and I'm not.

Finally, Hillary won El Paso by 75%. How with that overwhelming majority did you allow a minority to override the will of the majority? Even in the example of Mrs. A (you told us you witnessed this personally, but the only evidence you give is a person not named and the precinct not given), there was a majority of Hillary supporters. How did they let a minority overrule a majority? That doesn't make sense. Please explain it to me.

First, why did I keep quiet? I followed the campaign's guidance to resolve these issues behind closed doors. There were a few elements of this: the campaign's first concern was make as many corrections to the delegate count as possible within TDP rules, in TDP offices. Once the deed was done, an orderly audit benefited our side, and pushing these charges in the press would have created a circus (a la Florida) that would have shut down the process of verifying sign in sheets and delegate calculations.

Second, why no reporting? Because the press did not seek to investigate this, even though the Clinton campaign published the linked press release that we had evidence of widespread illegalities. I called a reporter from the El Paso Times who did not return my call. Also, this did not get pushed in the press after the initial press release because the TX Hillary campaign chose to trust the process and grind out the delegate count. Since the TDP is run by people who support both campaigns, there would have been a serious lose of face to air these charges, and would have strained the professional relationships between all in the campaigns and in the party. In the specific case of El Paso, I am told Chair Danny Anchondo did not want to humiliate leading Obama-supporting Democrats who he will have to live with for years to come.

Third, how did a minority faction override the majority? In the end, they did not. We had the best field operation I have ever seen, and in most cases, had a few trained people in each precinct. I should add, our organization was so overwhelming, the Obama campaign abandoned their precinct captain program about a week before the election, placing their bets on an election-day blitz by out of state organizers. We were also transparent, and included people with ties to the Obama campaign in our caucus training program. We knew that an orderly process favored Hillary. We would not have known about Mrs. A's precinct if we did not have trained people in the room. So, we were able to over-turn problems like Mrs A's precinct after the fact. How did the Obama organizers seize the convention in the first place? By intimidation, by physically controlling the legal documents, and by ignoring the legal process that called for an election of officers. They took the convention package and never let go of it.


Display:


Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 22)

Holy mackeral!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:11:10 PM EST

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 20)

Wow - no wonder they've done as well as they have in the caucus states.  Seriously - you've got affidavits to back all this up John?

Man we have GOT to get this information out to the Supers.  They need to know the type of folks they're throwing in with before they endorse.

Have you told anyone at the newspapers?  The media?  How do we get this information out to the decidion makers?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:13:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 17)

I know this raises a lot of questions. I'll try to keep on them and update the diary with answers.

Yes, I have a number of affidavits, and witness lists. Any credible, diligent authority can investigate my claims.

I should add that I am sticking to discussing irregularities that I was directly involved with, or were in the linked press release. As I have networked in the campaign, I have gathered stories from other caucuses similar to mine.

J


by Pacific John on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:20:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 13)

Hey John - Have you sent a link to this to the news outlets? Maybe the other political reporters like Halperin, Smith, Ambinder... ?

I could shoot them a note with a link.  I've seen you around these boards long enough to know you'd never post something like this without being able to back it up.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:24:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go ahead (2.00 / 15)

They might pick it up. There is definitely more than enough meat for a Congressional investigator or an investigative journalist to sink teeth into. This was a lot worse than the GIOP in FL '00. In a just world, we'd have all of our documentary film makers like Moore, Palast and Greenwald on this.

This would be a gift to a diligent party, there is a stack of signed statements just like Mrs. "A's".

by Pacific John on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:32:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Go ahead (2.00 / 10)

People need locking up down there in TX. I can't believe they're not only walking free after disinfranchising voters in their own communities, but that their guy is the one being portrayed as squeeky clean!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:42:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The very concept of a caucus seems FLAWED (2.00 / 1)

I have heard similar stories from Texas, even from Obama delegates.

This is not something we can have in Presidential elections.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Sat May 03, 2008 at 09:04:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fox (2.00 / 3)

Strangely Fox is the most likely to pick up the story.


by del on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:29:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fox (2.00 / 3)

You are probable right about Fox....I'll send Hannity a link...have him take a look at this....this is outrageous!

John, thanks for sharing this info...and you are right, we need to get this out to all the news organizations...someone will pick it up...it is far to serious!


by Cruiser35 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:53:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fox (2.00 / 3)

Yeah, there's an investigative journalist who knows how to get things done.

Here's a hint -- if you want Sean Hannity to push your story, you're not concerned about your story, you just want to get some hate noise on the airwaves to hurt Obama.

That's like an absolute. I'm sure Newton could have expressed it better. Either way, you expose yourselves as the worst of Liebercrats if you view Hannity as anything but a smallpox blanket. Yeah, it may keep you warm tonight, but don't forget the smallpox!


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Sat May 03, 2008 at 09:51:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fox (none / 0)

The similarities between MyDD and Fox these days have been incredible.  Half the recc'd diaries on a regular basis could be written by him (and I know, because listening to him on the radio is one of my guilty pleasures -- mostly because I enjoy yelling at the radio -- I switch back to NPR when I feel like turning my brain back on).


by Pragmatic Left on Sat May 03, 2008 at 11:18:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fox (none / 0)

Hannity? You would send this to that racist, scumbag who still thinks Hillary killed Vince Foster?  What kind of fool are you?  Why do you give those people any kind of ammunition against any Democrat?

You fucking people are nuts.


by Kyrial on Sat May 03, 2008 at 11:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 11)

Ok I thought this rang a bell guys.  I'm on the press releases list and get them as they're sent out.  I'm a pack rat and save them and here's one that went out the day of the TX primaries and caucuses...

Statement from Clinton Campaign Texas State Director Ace Smith

Across Texas today, we are seeing record voter turnout.  We are pleased to see that voting in today's primary is running smoothly and that Texas Democrats are energized and participating in the process.

In preparation for tonight's precinct conventions, the Clinton campaign has worked with the Obama campaign and the Texas Democratic Party over the past few weeks to ensure that there was clarity of the rules and that every voter has a chance to participate in the process on an even playing field.

Unfortunately, we have received numerous reports that the Obama campaign is violating Texas Democratic Party rules by circulating precinct convention sign in sheets in advance and are having them filled in now.  These underhanded tactics undermine the process that all parties agreed to.  

The Texas Democratic Party has issued a memo this afternoon once again clarifying that these sign-in sheets are invalid and that this tactic is a violation of the rules.  

We want every Texas voter to know that sign in sheets distributed before the primary polls close, will not count.  We encourage them to participate in their precinct convention by showing up at their polling location at 6:30pm.

We call on the Obama campaign to join us in repudiating these tactics, and to work with us and the state party to ensure that the integrity of the process is maintained.

We look forward to a tremendous turnout in both the primary and tonight's precinct conventions.



Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:33:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 6)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:34:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 10)

I found one more - but John you're totally right on all this.  They sent out these memos but as far as I know that's the last time they mentioned any of this.  They might not feel as if they can press this because they're in the middle of a campaign but DAMMIT it doesn't mean we can't help people understand just what's been going on in those caucus states.  And TX is a great way to do a sort of quality check - if the caucus doesn't come close to what happened with the primary vote then something's not right.

Here's that second memo...

The campaign legal hotline has been flooded with calls containing specific accusations of irregularities and voter intimidation against the Obama campaign.  This activity is undemocratic, probably illegal, and reflects a wanton disregard for the caucus process.

The three most egregious categories are:

1) Irregularities: Prematurely Taking Precinct Convention Packets by Obama Campaign

Numerous calls have shown that Obama supporters prematurely removed convention packets from polling places.  Packets may not legally given out until 7:15 PM or when the last voter has cast a ballot in the primary.  The Texas State Party warned the Obama campaign in writing that they may not take these packets early or remove them from the polling locations.  The Party directed that these irregularities be reported to law enforcement "since they amount to criminal violations."  The Party stated "removing convention packets . . .  will not be tolerated."

A sampling of the precincts where this occurred are:

659 - Tarrant
709 - Houston
2316 - Tarrant
1205 - Dallas
3127 - Bexar
3082 - Fort Bend
18/224 - Harris
3221 - Dallas
87 - El Paso
851 - Houston
115 - Harris
470 - Galveston
388 - Harris
3000 - Dallas
1214 - Dallas
20 - Medina
205 - Walker

2) Voter Intimidation: Lock-out of Clinton caucus goers by Obama Campaign

Numerous calls have been received that the Obama campaign has taken over caucus sites and locked the doors, excluding Clinton campaign supporters from participating in the caucus.  The Clinton supporters have been unable to enter the premises to caucus.  In at least one instance, law enforcement was called and forcibly opened the caucus site.

A sampling of the precincts where this occurred are:

4401 - Dallas
2052 - Tarrant
4402 - Dallas
75 - Harris
18 - Hardin
259 - Harris
124 - Nueces
4050 - Tarrant
115 - Harris
6 - Roma County
78 - Jefferson
117 - Denton

3. There are numerous instances of Obama supporters filing out precinct convention sign-in sheets during the day and submitting them as completed vote totals at caucus.  This is expressly against the rules. The sign-in sheets were copied by the Obama campaign from the Texas Democratic Party website and taken by supporters to various polling places to sign-up caucus goers prior to the start of the caucuses



Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:40:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, you're not alone... (2.00 / 11)

Really, John. I was in Nevada for their caucuses, and I heard first-hand accounts of Obama's Culinary Union leadership allies trying to bully members into caucusing for Obama... Oh yes, and many "activists" working directly with the Obama campaign did some really funny (not in a good way) business when they "ran" the caucuses they were assigned to run in Nevada.

In addition, I've heard from good friends who volunteered in other caucus states (like Iowa) about even more dirty tricks. It's a tragedy that all of this has happened, and that so many Democrats have been disenfranchised as a result of these dirty tricks. At the very least, the DNC should investigate these matters and make sure this never happens again.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:25:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Part of SEIU right? (2.00 / 6)

makes the story of their treatment of that nurses union much more likely as a pattern of behavior.


by zerosumgame on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, you're not alone... (2.00 / 6)

There's a very good reason Obama does so much better in caucuses. Is it also a coincidence that caucuses are the least democratic method of selecting candidates? Obama certainly prefers seem to prefer them.


by zenful6219 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, you're not alone... (none / 0)

Interesting, I've seen numerous reports of Hillary's people using unfair tactics in the Nevada caucuses.  I've heard that her people pushed to close the doors ahead of schedule disenfranchising many voters, and of candidate preference cards being pre-marked for Hillary.

"Despite clear rules and timelines laid out by the Nevada Democratic Party that caucus doors should remain open and voter registration should continue until noon, the Clinton campaign encouraged their operatives to close the caucus doors at 11:30 am, a half hour before that deadline.  This caused confusion and led to people leaving the caucuses before having the chance to participate." - Obama spokesman Bill Burton


No McCain in '08
by Renie on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:53:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 8)

I live in Texas, and this fraud is common knowledge to anyone who attended the caucus on March 4th.  The Houston and Dallas metro areas were complete chaos - no organization, no checking of voter cards to see if someone had voted earlier in the day; intimidation by over zealous Obama supporters.  Hours and hours of waiting with very tired people.  One caucus in Houston was not over until 0300am.  The took over my caucus by hook and crook.  It was a disaster for the Texas Democratic Party.  However, it did reveal to unfairness of a caucus compared to a primary.  We should abolish them all in every state in the future.


by mcctx on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How very true... (2.00 / 8)

Caucuses should be abolished. They're discriminatory by nature, as only able-bodied people available in a set 2-hour timeframe can caucus. But in addition, they're also prone to this very type of fraud.

In the precinct I worked in Las Vegas, the Obama people running the caucus were deliberately trying to hide our Hillary table. They tried to register people to vote who didn't even live in the precinct. They brought in all sorts of food items & other "goodies" to lure people to their area... And they tried to count Hillary supporters for Obama when they were just trying to get the food & drinks.

Really, I don't know what these folks were trained at "Camp Obama"... But the Obama campaign needs to stop encouraging its "activists" to participate in these kinds of dirty tricks.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:59:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (1.80 / 10)

Sorry but i'll believe these very.. general.. accusations when i see documentation. If you have facts and details why not post them rather than simply posting general "There was corruption! I talked to people" and "All disorganised and pro-Obama caucuses were corrupt and fraudulent".

Its just fails the smell test more than a wee bit when you dont post backup to your claims, dont make detailed claims, dont post names, and are doing it from behind  the guise of an psuedonym.

And no i'm not calling you a liar i'm demanding proof as we in the reality based community require.


I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever Thomas Jefferson
by cdreid on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:12:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, I live in Texas and participated (2.00 / 4)

in a caucus in a very small county.  I saw what the Obama people tried to do in our county but our county was small enough and we all KNEW everybody that it was difficult to "game."  Thus, our votes were honestly counted and Hillary won 72% of the votes.  It very closely correlated to the popular vote in the primary that Hillary also won overwhelmingly.  

It would be very difficult to maintain integrity in the caucus voting if the precinct or county convention were large or unruly as they were reported to be in Terrant and Dallas Counties.

Because of what I witnessed, I am convinced that Obama has not honestly won a single caucus state.  Obama supporters were too intent on cheating in Texas for this to have been the first time they tried it.


by macmcd on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:21:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (1.38 / 13)

Post facts. Documentation. Not this libelous Bs. The "ooh its a conspiracy to get us" garbage is getting a bit old. Seriously. You support Hillary. Good for you and i strongly disagree but i wont be libelling you with completely Dishonorable garbage. Wont be lying about you. Wont be jumping on the spinwagon to spread flat out lies. These people.. Alegre and its ilk are leading you down the road to neocon wingnuttery. Complete lack of honor and integrity. Is that what you want? The kind of politics you want? Where truth is irrelevant and all that matters is who is willing to lower themselves, dishonor themselves the most in order to win? Because i know a lot of Hillary supporters and many more Ex hillary supporters who arent willing  to follow that path. They see it as becoming republicans.

Surely you and your fellow advocates are better than that.


I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever Thomas Jefferson
by cdreid on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (2.00 / 6)

TR'ed for a personal attack on board members as well as the fact that you are countering John's completley valid post with absoutley true experinces (I was in El Paso as well) by calling Hillary supporters "conspiracy theorists". Unfortunatley for you, stories like these are coming in from across the country and across the state of Texas.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:32:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (1.23 / 13)

Heh

You mean tr'd for breaking the groupthink bubble dont ya there bubba? Must suck for ya being laughed at over at DK then come here and having people hurt your feelings with actual demand for facts and .. you know. Reality. TR Away bubba. Says a lot more about fear, weakness and irrationality of you and your ilk than it does me, obama supporters or honest hillary supporters.


I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever Thomas Jefferson
by cdreid on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I only judge by what I personally observed! (2.00 / 4)

I have not been influenced by anyone other than the Obama supporters I actually saw try to "game" the vote in my precinct and in my County Convention.  

I have complete confidence in the affidavits and voter reports that John discusses in his diary because I saw the same things tried in my County.


by macmcd on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:34:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I only judge by what I personally observed! (1.60 / 10)

Then REPORT IT. Swear out an affidavit. Call the FEC. Call the Democratic Party.

Otherwise this is nothing more than baseless libel. Smear (and im not really talking about you or the other poster so much as the diarist).

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Good rule whether you're religious or not.


I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever Thomas Jefferson
by cdreid on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I only judge by what I personally observed! (2.00 / 3)

I have!


by zenful6219 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I only judge by what I personally observed! (2.00 / 3)

yep, and the obama crowd sure is adept at smear and bullying and shouting down anyone.

here's a diary with multiple personal accounts, people that put their complaints in writing to the correct officials, substantiated. yet i can remember from the DKos days when dozens of BO supporters were posting whiny shit diaries about, for one example, 'i cried when i saw a hillary supporter take a BO flyer off a door someone just left there'. NO SUBSTANTIATION, from them or anyone else with the same experience, just hooting down anyone saying it was BS. screw registering a complaint, that diarist  just cried - supposedly. And anyone that raised a whiff of doubt, was TRd. I remember.

so stop your trolly bullying.  


by swissffun on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:58:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I only judge by what I personally observed! (2.00 / 1)

I want to see names. Not stuff like Mrs A observed this and some county chair. Pacific John says there are tape accounts. I want to see Pacific John send Armstrong or Beeton a tape that can be verified and played out on a stream here on MYDD.

If it was this blatant, we need to see some recordings by someone on youtube or somewhere else. And I still do not understand how a minority was able to get away with outright physical thuggery in front of a majority. Do you seriously tell me Clinton caucus supporters are so weak that they would allow this to happen right in front of their eyes?


by Pravin on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (2.00 / 3)

Oddly enough, your wording sounds like it could be directed towards thereisnospoon's diary over at dKos about irregularities he yelled about regarding I believe it was Nevada, and as of yet there are no charges.

So please, spare us the "ohhh conspiracy and dishonorable garbage" stuff because the Obama gang already played that song.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:58:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

Ya i forgot about the grand conspiracy to take the queen down. You people should really listen to yourselves sometime.


I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever Thomas Jefferson
by cdreid on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:55:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

See the video:

http://www.videospider.tv/Videos/Detail/ 3662885736.aspx

There are many more on youtube, but it's down for some reason.


by mrstas on Sat May 03, 2008 at 09:52:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

Wow.

Your video has next to no hits. If it had shown a Hillary person misbehaving instead of an Obama person, it would have created a firestorm.

Thanks for posting this.

by Pacific John on Sat May 03, 2008 at 10:28:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

Just to be clear, none of these are MY videos, just things I've found on the net...

Original:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRO3KO6Ws 34

But here are more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dln_I_iwP nU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxFKPOzdd ow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLGoRNVle B4


by mrstas on Sat May 03, 2008 at 11:09:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

You realize that the three later videos show people peacefully counting votes, right?  In one them, some people are laughing and slapping fives.  This is not what normally occurs when a minority is trying to subvert the will of the majority.

You're videos showed nothing, but a title of voter fraud.  I guess that's why you picked them.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:24:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

So if they violate TDP rules and commit fraud, but slap a high-five after, that makes it ok?


by mrstas on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:43:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

Where's the fraud?  You still haven't shown it to me.  The videos you showed were people counting votes.  Fraud is not evident there.  In fact, that looks like a rather orderly caucus.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

The first video is troublesome. The African American lady in glasses was out of line berating the white lady who was merely making a point. Then again, I dont know if the white lady was nagging her for a while or not. But from what I saw, the bespectabled lady should be disciplined.

The other video clips are a joke. I do not see a big controversy about them.

BUt here is a question about the troublesome first video. How tough would it have been for a single Hillary supporter to have monitored the ids at the beginning? Why were they bringing this up at the end? Was every local Democrat in charge of the proceedings an Obama supporter? Not one senior official in that locality was in favor of Hillary for this to go unchecked?


by Pravin on Sun May 04, 2008 at 11:07:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

That's not evidence of fraud.  The diarist and many commentsrs are maintaining that there was a conspiracy to conduct massive fraud and steal a caucus.  To do that you need documentation of some kind.  Objective reports would be nice.  

What I saw in that video was an argument over the rules.  There was a massive fuck-up in Texas caucus system.  There weren't enough party officials to organize it.  In many counties I understand there are like one or two party officials.  Your talking about hundreds of thousands of people who went to this caucus.  They weren't prepared.  So can I believe that people were signing in without being asked for certification? Yeah.  Can I believe that there was confusion and arguments over how rules of the caucus were meant to deal with this situation of huge numbers and poor supervision?  Yeah.  Can I believe this arguments were heated? Yeah.  We are talking about a PRESIDENTIAL election and emotions are raw.  Can I believe that there was nobody there to say that "this is the way it's done? Yeah.  Is that evidence of massive fraud? No.  An argument over rules does not prove fraud.

I don't understand how unsubstantiated rumors can become fact so quickly.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Sat May 03, 2008 at 11:22:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

In that video, the black lady rightfully says that it's the fault of whoever was taking signatures if they did not ask for proof of identification and their voter registration card before allowing people to sign in.

After typing that, was it even necessary to have ID to get into the caucas.  Here in NYC I don't need I.D.  I simply need to go to my voter place and I sign in and they compare that with the signature that they have on file.


by shalca on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:31:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I live in Texas and participated (none / 0)

Yes, to get into the caucus you needed to show your voter registration card that was stamped, or a form of I.D., along with a voting slip if you voted that day.

If not, you had to fill out a provisional sign-in sheet.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Sat May 03, 2008 at 08:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

actually no (none / 0)

just for clarification, a little slip which proved you voted was not neccessary for attendees.  you only have to show ID OR voter registration card.  there is a verification process, but no slip is required.

however, having that slip sure made sign ins a lot quicker.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:13:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 2)

Uprated.  TR abuse.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:29:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 1)

I wonder how he got all the unruly gangsters out to Guam?


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:34:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 12)

Wow, that is really disturbing.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:12:42 PM EST

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 11)

You're not kidding TD.  This is serious stuff and if I were a super - hell even a pledged delegate this would SERIOUSLY make me think twice before I cast my vote for BO at the convention!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well said, Alegre... (2.00 / 8)

This is REALLY disturbing. Democrats shouldn't be supporting this kind of vote suppression & election fraud. It's just wrong.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:29:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well said, Alegre... (none / 0)

you mean like Hillary did in Nevada?  And I've got far more proof of that than this person does.


It's all about McCain/Bush now...
by thereisnospoon on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well said, Alegre... (none / 0)

actually, it's true.  Just look what happened to the Party under Clinton stewardship.

She's just trying to derail Obama so she can try to take on McCain in 2012.  There's no other point in her staying in the race.


It's all about McCain/Bush now...
by thereisnospoon on Sat May 03, 2008 at 08:39:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well said, Alegre... (none / 0)

That's a lie and a canard.


by Montague on Sat May 03, 2008 at 09:07:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 4)

my sentiments exactly.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:21:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 14)

all this started in iowa, with the bogus "rumor" that richardson had dropped out and endorsed obama. they stole votes in iowa caucuses with that rumor, and have probably been refining their technique ever since. the texas format is ripe for stealing code sheets and calling in bogus results. no wonder it took weeks to count.


by campskunk on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:12:58 PM EST

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 12)

OMG! I'd forgotten about those Richardson "rumors" Camp.  Talk about dirty politics!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:15:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (none / 0)

The Richardson/Dodd rumors were thoroughly debunked for Iowa caucus goers before the caucus started; they did not have any effect on the caucuses, and certainly not 7 points worth.


by coronado on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:38:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what is a code sheet? (none / 0)

we have no code sheets in the texas caucus.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what is a code sheet? (none / 0)

Each convention package contained a pink PIN code sheet with which to report the delegate count.


by Pacific John on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:50:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ah ok (none / 0)

i know what you are talking about, but i don't think the correct terminology is code sheet.

apples to apples and all that.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Mon May 05, 2008 at 05:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 14)

The stories of frauds emerged from the caucus in Washington as well.  I can't believe that things like these happened in the USA.  
It's disturbing and undermines the result of the election.
by JoeySky18 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:15:44 PM EST

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 4)

That's what they are, stories.

You're grasping at straws in Washington. This is all just sour grapes because Hillary got clobbered so badly in the Washington Caucus.

There have been zero reports about caucus fraud in the local press here in Washington.

I was there, so I know how huge the crowds were. The crowds were huge because Obama had so many supporters turn out. It was awe inspiring, and you have no right to try to denigrate Obama's support here in Washington.


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:43:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 11)

What good is an investigation and finding of fraud if no one knows about it. Don't hesitate to tell the world about it, John.  People need to know and I hope it goes farther than just mydd.


by Scotch on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:16:37 PM EST

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 3)

We can help in that regard Scotch.  If we talk about this at other blogs or discussion boards then maybe folks will start to pay attention - ya know? :)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:28:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (none / 0)

Be advised that the Clinton campaign is very aware of what happened in the Texas caucus.  Time and patience will prove us right all the way to Denver. I am sure they are just waiting for all the critical primaries to completed first.  The TX caucus like MI and FL will be contested in due time!


by mcctx on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:49:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Heard this happening in Washington (2.00 / 11)

It is so upsetting that this is our party.


by catfish1 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:18:38 PM EST

WA state? (2.00 / 8)

In my caucus, everything went OK. It was BUSY and chaotic but it still went OK.


Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:20:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heard so, yes (2.00 / 7)

Well good things were OK at your caucus. Still the disparity between the popular vote and the caucus result in WA is troubling.


by catfish1 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:22:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heard so, yes (2.00 / 2)

of course they were, given how the primary didn't count.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:53:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heard so, yes (2.00 / 6)

After all, it's not like a primary with double the turnout is more representative than the caucus or anything


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:10:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmm. I don't see how that applies. (1.85 / 7)

Both the caucus and the primary counted in Texas and in counties which were either small enough to be transparent or in large counties where Hillary had legal teams and people trained to spot the illegalities, the popular vote and the caucus vote tracked almost precisely.  But in the large counties, the caucus vote numbers make absolutely no sense.

The Texas case makes it clear that the caucuses were stolen by Obama operatives.


by macmcd on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:27:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

but (2.00 / 2)

there were far more people that voted in the primary then caucused. Most people can not and will not go to a caucus, this is a fact.
If everyone who voted in the primary (many had also voted in the caucuses) had caucused, it would have been INSANE and IMPOSSIBLE! Now combine the people who ONLY caucused and the people who ONLY voted in the primary and you would have MAYHEM!
Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:27:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: but (2.00 / 3)

That's why caucuses are so much less democratic than voting. It's always puzzled me that Obama prefers caucuses, since fewer people participate in them.


by zenful6219 on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:37:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heard so, yes (none / 0)

clueless comment. A lot more people take the time to go vote in the primary and the primary didnt count? You really have to be a bot to believe in such blatant nonsense. Goodness, even the bush crowd in 2000 didnt talk such blatant bull.


by pdxarch on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:58:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heard so, yes (2.00 / 1)

The WA primary results did not count for the Democrats in the sense that the delegates were awarded based on the caucus that took place a couple of weeks earlier. Thusly, the primary not having the impact of a primary whose result will drive the allocation of delegates, the turn out wasn't as great as it could've been. Now this is fact, and your comment is crap.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:13:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heard so, yes (none / 0)

You obviously trouble with basic logic. If 2x more people turn out for the primary than the caucus despite the delegate issue, what that shows is this: Many people didnt care what the quirkiness of delegate counting is. If people were to be voting based on the screwed up delegate calculus that dems have devised, people would have to give up on the dems and stop voting. They went to the polls anyway to show what their preference is. In this case Obama ended up winning both, thus making your argument sillier than before. It is the humongous disparity between the results which exposes the problems with the caucuses and hence my original comment.


by pdxarch on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is (2.00 / 2)

simply because caucuses SUCK! They are NOT democratic and they are not truly representative.

This IS a FACT.


Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:23:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What is so troubling? (2.00 / 1)

It is clear Obama has a larger activist/volunteer base, which obviously is an advantage in a caucus, which requires a larger commitment of time and effort.


by protothad on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:59:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What is so troubling? (none / 0)

No, what is clear is that Obama had a healthier, more able to take time off and more aggressive base.

Those that had to work, had to take care of families, were disabled, the elderly, and those that just didn't want to deal with a bunch of intimidation were not as likely to be there.

Why is it that people think that those that don't like to be bullied aren't as dedicated?


by splashy on Sat May 03, 2008 at 05:20:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What is so troubling? (2.00 / 1)

This one of the most ignorant comments I've ever seen.  Have you even been to a caucus?

Let me tell you about my precinct delegation to the SD convention in Texas:

8 Clinton delegates
9 Obama delegates

1 of my Obama delegates could not show up because her children had strep throat.  However, the delegation even itself out because one of the Clinton supporters simply did not show up.  No excuse, just didn't come and wouldn't answer the phone when we called her.

The oldest person in our delegation was a 66 year old grandmother who walked with a cane.

What is it with you people who think those of us who are dedicated can be bullied?


by The Distillery on Sat May 03, 2008 at 06:36:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What is so troubling? (none / 0)

Oh forgot to mention.

The 66 year old grandmother was an Obama delegate.


by The Distillery on Sat May 03, 2008 at 06:37:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What is so troubling? (2.00 / 1)

The Obama event I've attended was the most diverse group of people I've ever seen at a political function, and most of the people were low to mid income working families.

And yes, I think someone with low mobility or working two jobs or kids to look after who STILL finds time to volunteer and caucus are by definition more dedicated to their cause.  THAT is what I've seen in the trenches of the Obama campaign.  I assume it is what I would also find in the trenches of the Clinton campaign (if not quite as many).  Perhaps we should resist the urge to dismiss the dedicated activists on either side.  They are a credit to the Democratic party and we will need all of them in Novemeber no matter who the nominee is.

Peace


by protothad on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:18:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WA state? (2.00 / 8)

This triggers a thought: We saw irregularities in about 40 of 170 precincts. As people like Greg Palast have pointed out for years, it only takes a little effort to shave enough votes to win an election.

I should also point out that most Obama supporters are good, honest Democrats. But we saw patterns statewide so we know some irregularities were directed by the campaign.

by Pacific John on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

bullshit (none / 0)

"we know some irregularities were directed by the campaign"

prove this.  

john, i have long held you in high regard in the blogging world, but that statement is pure horse shit.  

prove it.  show me documentation stating that team obama was trained to engage in fraud.  show me emails, memos, anything that would prove this.

as someone who trained WITH team obama staffers here in tarrant county, as someone who spent damn near every waking moment with the entire paid team for nearly a month, i will swear an affidavit saying that we were in no way directed to do anything illegal. in fact we were trained to follow the letter of the law every step of the way.

i caucused in one of the most populated counties in texas.  obama kicked ass in the popular vote in tarrant and his caucus results were nearly identical.  he creamed hillary in two of our three senate districts.  and you know what?  the one where hillary won the popular vote, she also won that senate district's caucus.

so many accusations of fraud flying on this thread by people who obviously don't know shit about our process... unreal.  and no john, no directing that at you - just saying it generally.

now please, if you have some evidence to back up your claim that team obama was directed by high level staffers to steal the caucuses, then put up or shut up.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:20:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heard this happening in Washington (2.00 / 1)

It's even more upsetting that we turn all of this on ourselves...

Seriously, unless there is concrete evidence and I do mean solid evidence, we do not not need to be shouting at the hills about this.

The Republicans have stolen the past two Presidential elections... do you really think they will not try for the trifecta?  We are in some serious deep crap this year as they are up against a wall.... Unless we have solid, concrete evidence about malfeasance, we need to stop with the innuendo... We will see real voter intimidation, disenfranchisement, and stolen votes in November.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:00:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Texas Caucus Fraud (2.00 / 12)

Thanks John. Being in El Paso with you, I can't help but share my contempt for the Obama campaign's tactics at polling locations and in caucuses, especally in our district. You word it so much better than I ever could. You're truly a benefit to Hillary's cause, thank you for all the great info.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:19:23 PM EST

Thanks, Zach (2.00 / 10)

I should mention that there are contemporaneous posts on this. Many of us at the El Paso Hillary HQ were aware of at least some of this.


Two examples that allude to this are here and here.

As Bill mentioned, we expected people to go to jail.

by Pacific John on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:27:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Zach (2.00 / 2)

I made a link error in the previous post. The link regarding irregularities is here.

Here's the relevant passage:

The woman on the left next to the Lt. Governor of Mexico is a lawyer from Boston. She flew in just to take care of any legal issues that might arise. And they did.. she stayed up all night after the primaries fielding calls from polls all over the city siting refractions by Obama people! Hundreds of complaints about Obama people breaking the laws at the polls, and NO complaints about Hillary people!

Kate and I along with a couple of others worked on these issues from the moment we got the first report of illegalities from Pharr, Texas, mid-day, until the county convention.

by Pacific John on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:40:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Zach (none / 0)

You realize that these are blogs and not official sources.  Where is the state AG?  Where is the TDP?  Where's the press? Are all these groups in Obama's pocket? Or is your story just not verifiable?  And if so, why not?


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:01:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Zach (2.00 / 1)

Please read the update - I posted an answer to an earlier post of yours that covers you questions.


by Pacific John on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:06:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A few problems with your update (2.00 / 1)

"I should add, our organization was so overwhelming, the Obama campaign abandoned their precinct captain program about a week before the election, placing their bets on an election-day blitz by out of state organizers. We were also transparent, and included people with ties to the Obama campaign in our caucus training program."

I'm an Obama precinct captain in Tarrant county.  I'm not sure what overwhelming organization you're talking about.  The Clinton delegates in my delegation didn't even have anyone contact them from the Clinton campaign about where to caucus for the SD convention.  I had to give them the information.

In Tarrant County, the Obama campaign also hosted a mock convention (which didn't really work like a mock convention but more as a tutorial in how conventions work) which Clinton delegates were advised they could attend as well.  In fact, I sat next to a Hillary delegate who told me that she was confused that the Clinton campaign had not provided any information to them.  I told her that she could just pretend Clinton's name was anywhere Obama's was on the program materials.

And on your point that the Clinton campaign was trying to follow the rules and let the caucuses play out, was that before or after she sent a letter to the TDP requesting that they postpone SD and County conventions? http://www.thetexasblue.com/clinton-chal lenges-caucus-results-requests-conventio n-delay


by The Distillery on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:45:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A few problems with your update (2.00 / 2)

I have no idea what the story was in Tarrant. I am only talking about the El Paso field operation. As I mentioned in my letter to Lois Capps, excerpted here, there were only four major counties orderly enough to report most of their caucus results election night. And in three of those counties, the popular vote magically mirrored the caucus results.

The letter you linked was central to the Hillary campaign strategy, to forcefully bargain for the most thorough audit of sign-in sheets possible. In a face-saving maneuver, the party publicly refused, but then went about a best-effort audit. It was, and still is the strategy of the campaign to cooperate with the TDP and county chairs.

BTW, I disagree with this strategy. I do not think the caucus system is legitimate. We proved in El Paso, Travis and Bexar that proper caucuses should mirror the popular vote, and that all others are illegitimate. If we made that point, we would forfeit a number of delegates that we are in the process of trying to grind out, but illustrate the big picture that Obama's caucus support, and caucus delegate count is inflated by at least 10%.

by Pacific John on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:21:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A few problems with your update (2.00 / 3)

The party publicly refused because challenges are how you refute caucus results, and your campaign more than utilized that strategy.  In my SD, we had 55 challenges out of 187 precincts.  The majority of those challenges were instigated by Clinton supporters against Obama delegates.

I'm not really sure what you think you've proven.  The only link you provide is blog entry quoting Hillary's counsel.  Can I have some independent links that state that the only caucuses that reported on that night were the ones you cite?  They're he crux of your argument.


by The Distillery on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:43:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

and in my populous county (also tarrant) (none / 0)

we didn't report full results until the next day, and "magically" obama's caucus win matched very closely to the popular vote track.

so forgive me if the "magic" thing just doesn't hold weight with me.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:23:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]