Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC Cities

Frank Eaton, a documentary filmmaker and campaign worker for candidate for Lt. Governor, Dan Besse, posted a picture of an actual sample ballot that is being handed out in Forsyth County, North Carolina.  The ballot is not marked sample anywhere on its face.  It is actually titled, "official ballot" up top.

Here is the North Carolina statute governing sample ballots:

§ 163-165.2. Sample ballots.
(a) County Board to Produce and Distribute Sample Ballots. - The
county board of elections shall produce sample ballots, in all the
necessary ballot styles of the official ballot, for every election
to be held in the county. The sample ballots shall be given an
appearance that clearly distinguishes them from official ballots.
The county board shall distribute sample ballots to the chief
judge of every precinct in which the election is to be conducted.
The chief judge shall post a sample ballot in the voting place and
may use it for instructional purposes. The county board of
elections may use the sample ballot for other informational
purposes.

(b) Document Resembling an Official Ballot to Contain
Disclaimer. - No person other than a board of elections shall
produce or disseminate a document substantially resembling an
official ballot unless the document contains on its face a
prominent statement that the document was not produced by a board
of elections and is not an official ballot.

Frank says in his post that people were actually trying to hand in the ballots thinking they were real.  

The group handing them out is a mystery.  From Frank:  

And here's a piece of paid literature being distributed at early polling places around Winston-Salem by paid people for a brand new PAC called the Winston-Salem Black Political Action Committee.......

Where did this formerly blank ballot come from? Who is the Winston-Salem Black PAC? Why didn't they file the organizational reports that were due this week?

We don't know who is behind this, but you can bet we'll be pushing until we find out.

Original story is at BlueNC.com
 



Display:


Well, they didn't come from HRC since... (2.00 / 2)

BO is the one voted for on these sham ballots.

So....follow the money, er, I mean, logic to its root.


by CoyoteCreek on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:17:52 PM EST

Re: Well, they didn't come from HRC since... (2.00 / 2)

It makes sense that the candidate with the big lead in NC would try to confuse voters by marking his own name on fake ballots -- to anyone wearing a tin foil hat shaped into the likeness of Hillary, that is.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:35:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't say BO did it. I said HRC didn't. (2.00 / 1)

You just jumped to your own conclusion.


by CoyoteCreek on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:37:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I didn't say BO did it. I said HRC didn't. (2.00 / 1)

Your hat's too tight.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't wear hats! (2.00 / 1)


by CoyoteCreek on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:17:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't wear hats! (none / 0)

A metal plate perhaps?


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:36:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not a nice comment, BTW. (none / 0)


by CoyoteCreek on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not a nice comment, BTW. (none / 0)

You must mean the one accusing Obama of putting out fake ballots.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:47:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Noooo...making fun of people with (none / 0)

traumatic brain injury - which I don't have but which some Obama Supporters must think is funny.


by CoyoteCreek on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Noooo...making fun of people with (none / 0)

Ω


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Sat May 03, 2008 at 04:05:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't wear hats! (none / 0)

I used to, then I went bald and a hat makes me look like a chemo patient.  

There is your totally random aside for the day :D


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:44:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You need to re-examine your logic. (2.00 / 1)

How would tricking Obama supporters into turning in un-official ballots benefit Obama?



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:02:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is bigger than Watergate (none / 0)


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:19:10 PM EST

Re: This is bigger than Watergate (none / 0)

Well....I think that's taking it a bit far.  

However, we have heard that it is happening in other cities and counties.


Robin Hayes lied, Robin Hayes cried and thousands of folks lost their jobs.
by The Southern Dem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is bigger than Watergate (2.00 / 1)

psst...  Al is the uncontested master of snark.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:59:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is bigger than Watergate (2.00 / 1)

I can tell.  He just doesn' t do any of those cute little emoticons so we know what he's reeeeallly thinking.


Robin Hayes lied, Robin Hayes cried and thousands of folks lost their jobs.
by The Southern Dem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:22:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gracias (none / 0)

I know we're outnumbered here 75% to 25%, but standing ovations, never get old!


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:07:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

UGH (2.00 / 1)

What a mess.


by JustJennifer on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:23:01 PM EST

It is a mess, indeed (none / 0)

If the primary is this much of a mess, imagine what the general will look like.


Robin Hayes lied, Robin Hayes cried and thousands of folks lost their jobs.
by The Southern Dem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:26:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is a mess, indeed (2.00 / 1)

It is beyond ridiculous that in a country with so much technology, innovation, and intelligent people we still manage to regularly screw up our own freaking elections in one way or the other.  We are supposed to be setting the example for the democratic process.  


by JustJennifer on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is a mess, indeed (none / 0)

If I could mojo you I would.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:45:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (2.00 / 2)

Well, I don't see someone from the Clinton camp doing this until there are other ballots with Hillary's name filled in.

Obama does not need this mess, but his "supporters" are starting to get desperate.  


by stefystef on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:27:26 PM EST

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (2.00 / 2)

But the thing is, I don't think Obama supporters here in NC are desperate. Obama is polling well and there is a huge army of supporters on the ground.

I visited the Raleigh Obama HQ today and it was buzzing. They had run out of yard signs, having given out over a thousand in recent days.

I think it may be more connected to a local candidate. Just a hunch.


by NCDemAmy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:30:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (none / 0)

Interesting theory.  I understand there are a couple of hotly contested elections in NC, so perhaps it is associated with another candidate like you said.

We'll see if this story has "legs".


by stefystef on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:44:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It looks like FAIL! not crime. (none / 0)

It's common practice to use images of the final ballot to indicate to voters which bubble to fill out, especially if the bubble system is relatively new.  

And if it works in NC like CT, you aren't allowed to  bring ANY materials in from outside the polling place, no flyers, etc.

So it's not like people could simply bring these in and scan them.


by drowsy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

exactly (2.00 / 1)

TPM had a story about this during the Penn primary:
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/04/this_ballot_guide_that_o nly.php
and here's an image of a ballot handed out that only had Clinton's name on it:

by majhula on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is instructions (none / 0)

Not an official ballot.  Instructions how to use the machine, very common.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And the ballot posted above (none / 0)

It is official? Because I don't think anyone is claiming that North Carolina is handing out official ballots with names already filled in.
Honestly, I don't think anyone should be able to create literature advocating a candidate that looks anything remotely like a ballot. It causes confusion, as the sample I posted above did in PA, and as this new one from NC is doing there.
by majhula on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:12:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And the ballot posted above (none / 0)

It is an instruction set not a real thing that could even be scanned.  Lighten up


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:30:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And the ballot posted above (none / 0)

The NC sample ballot clearly says Official on it. Maybe someone is doing it to really piss off Obama voters so they won't be apathetic? It wouldn't be the first time a candidate from either party went there. After they booed the Governor of NC (a Democrat who has endorsed Clinton) when he was introduced at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner today, I'm really not feeling any great love for people who say they are Obama supporters. Republican plants? I don't think so. After the incredibly shocking uncovering of a doctored tape that was meant explicitly to arouse anti-White, anti-Clinton hatred, it's getting difficult to discern who is responsible for what. I can honestly say that I don't personally know any Obama supporters who would be involved with any of the three things I just mentioned.

The Sean Bell demonstrations (Al Sharpton and his supporters, and others) to shut down NYC with acts of civil disobedience are now scheduled for the day after the Indiana and NC primaries. Obama cautioned Reverend Sharpton that the demonstration had best be non-violent. Sharpton now says that the two never had harsh words, but The New York Post has certainly whipped it into a "War for Black power" story. They also seem to be retreading the Wright story.

So, all-in-all it appears that TheHufingtonPost is right down there with Americablog. I'm not trusting any media of any kind, either right or left wing that has anything to say about Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama or JohnMcCain. But I think the media and all its forms being both exploitive, and being exploited.

My question remains by whom, and I no longer feel that the Obama campaign or his purported supporters have any highground.

Whether or not he or his campaign or his supporters had anything to do with the NC flyer is irrelevant to my trust in any Obama supporter that I don't personally know at this point. Oh, and that crusade about Hillary Clinton not ever having said rich people, God bless us, is yet another example of actual really desperate and ugly politics. Listen to the tape. She says "God has blessed us."

Like I said, I have no evidence that any of it is coming from Senator Obama or his campaign, but I do think some overzealous Obama supporters or people saying they are Obama supporters have seriously and damagingly played the Black race card. It's been creeping into public discourse and assaulting the internet: the word people now is taken to mean Whites and Blacks.

Some of my friends say welcome to life as a Black man or woman. When it goes beyond that for either camp, like accusing Clinton of trying to "steal" the nomination, Party leaders are right to be concerned. When anyone tries to shut the primary process down - which unfortunately involves superdelegates - don't we all know how that is going to turn out? We will convince ourselves we don't have a "legitimate" candidate

So if Hillary does very well in Indiana and even North Carolina, we're all still committed to non-violence and the principles of Democracy? Or do they only apply if a specific candidate wins? There is a lot of heated debate going on right now, but now I have become concerned that a growing number of people are feeling threatened in a non-political manner.

Americans who are not accustomed to, or who don't want to deal with the sometimes very rough and sometimes bitter and angry world of politics will not be forgiving. The fact that a huge majority of the country disapproves of Bush and his "legacy", yet just a little less than half continue to say they will vote for McCain, is something that I don't think Democrats are all listening to right now. These polls don't count, right?

Some are too busy race-baiting. Winning the nomination appears to have become more important than winning the election for some vocal people who claim to be Obama supporters. Isn't that what I read posted so frequently here as a judgment of the character of Hillary Clinton? It is clear to me that it is true of anyone running to be President in this election. Is it only a bad thing if you accuse Hillary of being like that?

Just a reminder to those so wrapped up in the justification and righteousness and mathematical algorithm of their candidate winning the nomination that it is just as likely that their candidate will not be picked as the other candidate.

I actually can't imagine the Democratic Party not choosing Hillary Clinton as the best candidate to defeat McCain, but right now I know there are Obama supporters who feel exactly the same way about Obama. I just may have to end up dealing with that loss. So may you. So say we all? But don't end up victimizing yourself in the process - it's exactly what Republicans would have you do.

But honestly, imagine what it would feel like with McCain as President. If this is your first election as an engaged participant - regardless of your age or race or sex - multiply the pain by ten. Don't be boxed in by your absolute conviction that your candidate is right on all the issues and just superior in every way to his or her rival.

That may be true in your head and maybe even in your heart, but it's one of the reasons Democrats always seem to be outsmarted by Republicans. We think we have right and power and the ethical and moral and social high ground on our side yet Republicans figure out a way to step all over that and take whatever they want. Now that's what stealing looks like.


by Jeter on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:50:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: exactly (none / 0)

Right, and both sides did it, as is proper.   Look at the "YOU MAY TAKE THIS BALLOT INTO THE VOTING BOOTH WITH YOU" line.   That is crazy, did PA allow that?  


by drowsy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:04:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: exactly (none / 0)

Right, and both sides did it, as is proper.   Look at the "YOU MAY TAKE THIS BALLOT INTO THE VOTING BOOTH WITH YOU" line.   That is crazy, did PA allow that?  


by drowsy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:04:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: exactly (none / 0)

This is from MICHIGAN ;)


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:47:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How long before Hillary is blamed? (2.00 / 2)

Some conspiracy will be dreamed up claiming Hillary is trying to make Obama look bad...or some such nonsense...


by SaveElmer on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:27:54 PM EST

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (none / 0)

Used to live in Forsyth County. I suspect it is an honest mistake, but if anything it is probably put forth by the local Republican party. They are and have always been completely shameless. Hell, they are still trying to fight against Integration.

For all the conspiracy theorists out there, Forsyth County is home to Winston-Salem, which is a predominately black city. This is most likely the reason Obama was checked on the ballot, since this was targeted to black voters. If you want to assume that this is malfeasance, then marking Obama would make it more likely that voters would just turn it in directly, or at least attempt to.

But I re-iterate: This is most likely a simple mistake.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:29:32 PM EST

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (none / 0)

After taking a second look, I suspect that this is simply a group who took the wrong approach in telling voters how the group would like them to vote. I don't think there is any serious fraud or harm intended. Of course, all that depends on whether they were handing this out "near" the polling stations or inside the polling stations.

I suspect that this was simply ill-advised. I don't see any criminal wrong doing. The best course is to nail down who exactly the group is and then warn them. About the same level of controversy as the WVWV dust up.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (none / 0)

have you seen multiple examples of the ballot? curious if they're all filled out exactly the same way every time.


by Todd Beeton on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:31:06 PM EST

Todd read the bottom of the ballot (none / 0)

It was paid for by the PAC so one assumes they are all the same


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:35:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Todd read the bottom of the ballot (none / 0)

one does assume, which is why I asked for confirmation.


by Todd Beeton on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (none / 0)

I believe they are printed that way.  Will double check.


Robin Hayes lied, Robin Hayes cried and thousands of folks lost their jobs.
by The Southern Dem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:35:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Never mind the bollocks... (none / 0)

or the WVWV, Here's the Winston-Salem Black PAC!


by drowsy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:34:48 PM EST

Seriously, though. (2.00 / 1)

Handing out replicas of ballots pre-filled is common here in CT, especially in the "Electioneering Zone" outside polling places.    We usually take more care, carving them up into fragments, marking them correctly, etc.  

That these guys failed to mark these up with SAMPLE all over it is stupid.   But it does say "Paid for" on the bottom, so it doesn't look like they are hiding, or had any illusions that these would serve as real ballots.

If people were trying to hand these in, then I hope they were asked why.    If they were just confused, then whatever.  If they were told to, then someone may be trying a super-doublecross-psyop to make all these non-Gravel voting people feel they've already voted.

And I certainly hope not.   If there is foul play, let the ass kicking begin!


by drowsy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seriously, though. (2.00 / 1)

Yes, it's common here, esp for the the Judges, since in our state, Judges are not listed by party.

But, as you noted, they failed to remove "Official Ballot" and include Sample Ballot, thus the confusion.


by NCDemAmy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Marked Sample Ballots (2.00 / 1)

The ballot is marked so perfectly, though - that doesn't look like something that was marked by hand.  I don't really see how this "scheme" would work, though - handing out ballots marked with Barack Obama to African Americans?

Doesn't make much sense.


by bobbank on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:37:14 PM EST

Re: Marked Sample Ballots (2.00 / 1)

The ballots are scanned. You fill in the bubbles (or in my precinct connect the lines) and then insert it into a machine which tallies it. So, it matters not if the ballot is marked perfectly.


by NCDemAmy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:42:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hope - Change (2.00 / 1)

I can feel it.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:42:06 PM EST

Re: Hope - Change (none / 0)

Yep.  The best 'hope' that everyone's 'change' can buy!


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I love your sig line (none / 0)


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Did It! (none / 0)

Let's just get that out of the way so that the facts, when they do come in, do not get in the way of the accusation.


by DaveOinSF on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:43:37 PM EST

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (none / 0)

now THIS is dirty, and old-style, campaign tricks.


by swissffun on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:45:36 PM EST

Well.. (none / 0)

if anything it looks pretty damn suspicious that Winston-Salem Black Political Action Committee is passing out sample ballots with Obama's name already marked.  Hope someone gets to the bottom of this.


by JustJennifer on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:46:07 PM EST

Likely Scam (2.00 / 1)

I'm thinking it's one of the down-ballot selections trying to get the black vote who otherwise wouldn't.  Don't jump to the conclusion one of the Presidential candidates would stoop to something like this.  Or just as likely a Republican effort to inject confusion -- it's more their style.


by xeju on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:48:44 PM EST

Re: Likely Scam (none / 0)

It could be a scam.  And I don't think that the Obama campaign would be behind this.  I just think it looks bad since Obama's name might be marked on each ballot.  People can and will jump to their own conclusions.


by JustJennifer on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:55:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Likely Scam (none / 0)

Doesn't strike me as a scam, because no election official would actually accept that as an official vote. So what are you scamming? More likely,  it is just an advocacy group gone awry.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:59:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (none / 0)

What do we know about all of the other candidates whose names were filled in on these ballots?

It seems unlikely that anyone from either Presidential campaign would have a definitive opinion on who should win the Court of Appeals Judge races, after all (as an aside: Sam Ervin IV?).


by Ray Radlein on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:55:59 PM EST

Hmmmm (none / 0)

How would tricking Obama supporters into turning in un-official ballots benefit Obama?



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:02:05 PM EST

Re: Hmmmm (none / 0)

Exactly -- getting people who want to vote for Obama to turn in ballots that probably won't even scan correctly (and will thus not be counted) seems like it'd hurt Obama more than help him.


by ChrisKaty on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Marked Sample Ballots Causing Confusion in NC (none / 0)

Questions surround Obama's candidacy:

http://questionbarackobama.blogspot.com


by Steven B on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:54:48 PM EST

Contact Elections Official & COMPLAIN (none / 0)

Rob Coffman, head of Forsyth County Elections

(336) 703-2801.
FORSYTH.boe@ncmail.net


by miker2008 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:10:55 PM EST

Re: Marked Sample Ballots ... NC Cities (none / 0)

This takes about 30 seconds to track down the source of. Here is the PAC filing for the Winston-Salem Black Political Action Committee:

http://www.co.forsyth.nc.us/elections/Ca mpaignReports/2008/Political_Action_Comm ittees/WS_Black_Political_Action_Committ ee/01_Statement_of_Organization.pdf

Everette Witherspoon is a partisan for the Dellinger campaign. I'm not sure if he is paid by the campaign or is simply a volunteer. The group is a front organization for the Hampton Dellinger campaign which has been trying to use it to manipulate the African-American vote in Forsyth county.

Far from being a generic construct, the name is meant to cause confusion. There is a long existing group in the county called the Black Political Action League, which this group is trying to impersonate.


by NCMike on Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:10:43 AM EST

Re: Marked Sample Ballots ... NC Cities (none / 0)

Reading over my post above, I have to concede that the stated association with the Dellinger campaign is pretty bold. Checking Dellinger's campaign filings, I could find no record of a payment to Witherspoon or Wiley who is listed as the group's treasurer.

Here is what I do know: Witherspoon has represented the Dellinger campaign at events and recently spoke for the campaign at the Forsyth County Democratic Convention in April. He has been actively campaigning for Dellinger at multiple party functions and election sites. He handed-out flyers trying to associate Dellinger with Obama at the Winston-Salem Barack Obama Town Hall last Tuesday.

It is possible that this is simply a case of an overzealous supporter taking his own initiative. I do think the connection between the Dellinger campaign and WS Black PAC needs to be probed closely.


by NCMike on Sat May 03, 2008 at 03:15:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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