MyDD :: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of?

Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of?

by Jonathan Singer, Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:37:43 PM EST

After hearing John McCain join George W. Bush in attacking Barack Obama for being willing to speak with the Iranian leadership this past Thursday, I had a few questions:

I'd go even a step further and ask why John McCain is afraid to speak with Iran. What is it about Iran that scares McCain so much? Or is it that McCain believes Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khamenei are so crafty that they would trick an American President into inadvertently ceding the state of Maine or American Samoa to Iran? Or alternatively, is it that McCain simply does not know how to act in a manner different from his true political role model, George W. Bush?

Obama, speaking today in Montana, seemed to have the same question on his mind:

Here's the truth: the Soviet Union had thousands of nuclear weapons and Iran doesn't have a single one. But when the world was on the brink of nuclear holocaust, Kennedy talked to Khrushchev and he got those missiles out of Cuba. Why shouldn't we have the same courage and the confidence to talk to our enemies? That's what strong countries do, that's what strong presidents do, that's what I'll do when I'm president of the United States of America.

So, you know, for all their tough talk, one of the things you have to ask yourself is what are George Bush and John McCain afraid of? Demanding that a country meets all your conditions before you meet with them, that's not a strategy; it's just naïve, wishful thinking. I'm not afraid that we'll lose some propaganda fight with a dictator. It's time for America to win those battles, because we've watched George Bush lose them year after year after year. It's time to restore our security and our standing in the world. [emphasis added]

I point this out not to speak of some prescience on my part or to suggest that Obama has been cribbing off of MyDD. Instead I just say that I think this is exactly the right response to the isolationist-cum-jingoistic rhetoric coming from some in the upper echelons of the right these days, including George W. Bush and the man seeking to extend the Bush presidency for four more years -- John McCain.

Yitzhak Rabin once famously said about negotiation with his onetime sworn enemies, the PLO and Yassir Arafat in particular, "You don't make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavory enemies." Likewise, John F. Kennedy wisely said during his inaugural address, "Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate."

McCain apparently does not understand these key tenets of foreign policy. To borrow from Aaron Sorkin in another context, McCain "is not the least bit interested in solving [the Iran issue]. He is interested in two things and two things only: Making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it." So I wholeheartedly applaud Obama for turning it around on McCain and asking the fundamental question regarding McCain's weird unwillingness to consider negotiations with Iran. Indeed, "what are George Bush and John McCain afraid of?"

Tags: Barack Obama, John McCain, Iran, 2008 (all tags)

Permalink :: 84 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 2)

Excellent. Here's to hoping we can destroy the narrative of "Republicans are strong on defense" that's been so deeply ingrained into the American subconscious. McCain is making it almost too easy on us by consistently confusing all the various power groups in the region. We just need to stay on him.

Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics

by BishopRook on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:43:58 PM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

The Bush Republicans were so inept, so evangelical, so liberal that they had to take their conservative base to a sort of constant
brainwashing that has harmed discourse in our country.

Obama, on the other hand, is leading a group of connected, informed voters. Some of them disagree with each other. But he continually keeps the discussion on the issues and the immediate results of what he's been doing, or what we're supposed to be doing, as a country. He's a born statesman. And a community builder.

This is why a.) I helped my state to vote for him (and yes Obama won here by 67% of the vote!) and b.) he is so important to me personally.

I have conservatives in our family, and I like to hear their viewpoints. The first thing President Obama does for our country is give us all a chance to calm down and meet each other at the dinner table eye to eye and have a great conversation at thanksgiving.

by Trey Rentz on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:40:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 4)

They're afraid that fear, smears, and misrepresentation won't work anymore. They're afraid of finally having an opponent in Barack Obama who will hammer them on national security by projecting strength not with threats, but with reason and sound logic.

They're afraid that the charade might just be up, and that the American public finally might not buy it anymore.

by Pat Flatley on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:44:37 PM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 2)

What a fantastic change it will be, actually looking forward to hearing what our president has to say and where he wants to take us.

by mady on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:44:39 PM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 2)

Awsome response. It's great seeing how he dismantles their attacks with such ease. It's kind of hard to win a debate when you chief surrogate is George W. Bush.

Obama/Clark will CRUSH John McCain

by spacemanspiff on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:46:21 PM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 3)

Having W attack Obama is like manna from the heavens. It allows Obama to respond and tie McCain to George and his 28% approval rating.

by chewie5656 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:46:29 PM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

Or is it that McCain believes Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khamenei are so crafty that they would trick an American President into inadvertently ceding the state of Maine or American Samoa to Iran?

----

I think that's pretty much it.

McCain knows he's feeble minded and likely to give away the store.

So, he figures, he's better off just avoiding that whole mess.

by Bush Bites on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:47:35 PM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

I can't wait for the inevitable explosion from Grandpa this summer or fall. Barack will goad him into it.

by Pat Flatley on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:49:46 PM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (1.00 / 2)

That's ageist. If you want racism to be off limits, better stay away from that. One is not any worse than the other.

TexasDarlin blog

by TexasDarlin on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:10:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Is this your coming out statement?

Obama/Clark will CRUSH John McCain

by spacemanspiff on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:20:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a little different though. (2.00 / 4)

I say McCain is too old to be president. There's merit in that statement. It's not quite the same as saying Obama is too black to be president, or Hillary is too female to be president.

We can't pretend that McCain will live forever. We also can't pretend that he will not go through a period of decline (mentally and physically) before he dies. Presidents appear to age at double the rate the rest of us do.

Am I making sense?

Republicans = Borrow and Squander

by GFORD on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:20:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (1.00 / 3)

No, it's unfair. If you have any concrete documentation that McCain is not of sound mind or body -- that's different. But the world is full of very sharp 70 year olds. I don't think it's wise strategically, or fair, to make that the basis of your attack. On the flip side, they will argue just as effecitvely that Obama is too young, hasn't had the time to accumulate enough life experience. Ageism and sexism are just as offensive to the victims as racism.

TexasDarlin blog

by TexasDarlin on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:37:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (2.00 / 3)

You may want to adjust your moral compass Darlin, because this...

Ageism and sexism are just as offensive to the victims as racism.

...is BS.

Ageism is often justifiable, whereas sexism and racism are essentially never justifiable. Race and Gender are intrinsic conditions that cannot be altered in any practical sense and represent only superficial differences between people - whereas age dictates real and significant differences in ability.
The same goes for other conditions that impair physical or mental capabilities. And it is fair for people to want their pilot, driver, soldier and President to posses the physical and mental capacity to effectively do their jobs. To allow otherwise would be to risk likes.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com

by LandStander on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:56:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (none / 0)

...'risk lives' is what that last line should read.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com

by LandStander on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:57:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (2.00 / 1)

I would add that everyone gets old (unless they suffer premature death), so the elderly are not a "discrete and insular group," to use the Supreme Court's language (Massachusetts Board of Retirement v. Murgia). That is, since we all would grow old were we to live a normal life span, we are less inclined to pick on the elderly as a group without some justification. That is not to say that the elderly are not subject to unfair prejudice in many instances, but discrimination on the basis of age doesn't warrant immediate suspicion the way that race-based and gender-based discrimination does (race and gender are almost never relevant, with the exception of remedial action like affirmative action).

by DPW on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:20:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll give it some thought. (none / 0)

It's a moot point anyway since he is a member of the Grand Old Criminals Party.

P.S. We don't even know the state of his health since he has yet to release his medical records. It is fair game to be sure that a presidential candidate is fit for the office before the election.

Republicans = Borrow and Squander

by GFORD on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:33:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll give it some thought. (none / 0)

I think what Darlin is really saying is Obama is not allowed to attack anyone or anything because he is Obama and he has to lose...because if he doesn't than her, and everyone else who predicted that this was the worst thing ever to happen to Democrats, ever, would be wrong...and we can't have that.

I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.

by JDF on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:26:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (none / 0)

<blockquote>Ageism and sexism are just as offensive to the victims as racism.</blockquote>
You must have dropped your critical thinking apparatus when writing that sentence. Pick it up and start over.

"I'm all for the delegate battle, and now that Obama's campaign is too, I'm all giddy. It's going to be the supers as kingmaker." J.Armstrong 01/19/08

by obscurant on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:17:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (none / 0)

I actually agree that we cannot assume McCain's age is a problem unless associated health reasons reveal as much. His medical records are very important in clearing this up.

by elrod on Tue May 20, 2008 at 04:09:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (2.00 / 1)

Sheesh. I'm thinking about adding a signature that states "uprated for HR abuse. I disagree with the content, but don't think it should be hidden."

by Mobar on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:08:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (none / 0)

It's one thing to say that he's too old to be president and to argue the point. It's quite another to do so by calling him Grandpa.

Let's try to keep things civil; personal insults should be beneath us.

by Thadd Selden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:31:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (2.00 / 1)

Oh my god. This is nothing new, and McCain jokes about his age. The faux-outrage here for referring to McCain as "Grandpa" is truly breathtaking.

by Pat Flatley on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:20:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (none / 0)

My point is that we'll have no trouble crushing McCain on the issues and by using insults to attack it makes us look like we're low on substance. It's all about staying focused and hammering our message home without the distractions.

by Thadd Selden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:07:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (none / 0)

Age is not a distraction - it's a legitimate political issue. Gram..err..McCain would be the oldest elected president by about four years, and he's acknowledged that this is a legitimate political topic. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

by Pat Flatley on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:12:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (none / 0)

I never said age is a distraction. I said insults are.

by Thadd Selden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:51:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a little different though. (none / 0)

If someone is so hypersensitive as to take offense to referring to John McCain as "Grandpa," then they're going to find something else to be "outraged" by anyway.

by Pat Flatley on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:19:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Amen! (none / 0)

He called himself a great great great grandpa on SNL this weekend.

And, let's get this outta the way too... He's showing signs already that his age is a problem. if he didn't have Holy Joe sitting there correcting him all the time, the man may not get anything right, ever!

If you vote McCain, you don't believe in anything Hillary has stood for her whole life.

by SpanishFly on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, they already had a 'Grampa' in the (none / 0)

race but he dropped out...Grampa Thompson.

Republicans = Borrow and Squander

by GFORD on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:38:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

Nothing wrong with ageism in appropriate situations. Toddlers and the extremely elderly should not be allowed to drive. Neither should the blind. This has nothing to do with age and everything to do with real mental and physical development differences. Some restrictions are necessary for the protection of the general population.

It's the same reason you need good vision to fly a plane. Nothing against people with thick glasses, but to allow those with poor vision to fly a commercial airliner would be an act of criminal negligence. It would be similarly unwise to elect a president with a poor health history who plans to serve into his late 70's.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com

by LandStander on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:35:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

what is ageism?

Advanced age does impair the base physical and mental capabilities of human beings. To different degrees sure.

Thats hugely different from racism which for the most part assumes difference were there are none.

Doesn't mean that people cant be bigoted based on age but it's not in the same class as racism.

by holder on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:19:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep, nobody is born old. (none / 0)

But nearly everybody ends up there.

If either Obama or Hillary were 72, we would wonder if they are too old to be president. Fair game to wonder the same thing about McCain.

Republicans = Borrow and Squander

by GFORD on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:41:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

zero rated by spanishfly

TexasDarlin blog

by TexasDarlin on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:02:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Darlin's right... You want backlash? Then keep that up.

John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.

by recusancy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (1.00 / 1)

Look I am not ready to jump headlong into a boneheaded foreign policy just for rhetorical satisfaction.

I do not believe any level headed foreign policy expert would suggest at this point that the " President " himself should board the first plane to Tehran to meet the holocaust denier without any preconditions.

I doubt if Obama himself knows what his position is now .

It is a different thing if you send high levels of your cabinet to do that than the " president " himself.

I don't know why anyone would be " afraid " of a chit chat with the guy that doesn't think the gay community exist in Iran.

Obama should clarify his position because I have heard from him different things on different days .

His he as " president " going to meet with these dictators one on one with no preconditions or not ?

Substituting rhetoric for policy would not be of much use.

When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line

by lori on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:53:12 PM EST

It's pretty obvious (2.00 / 1)

He's talking about Kennedy/Reagan style diplomacy, which has been his position this entire campaign.

by Homebrewer on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:06:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's pretty obvious (none / 0)

Talking about Reagan style diplomacy makes you unfit to be a Democrat...just ask any Hillary supporter

(and yes...this was snark)

I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.

by JDF on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:28:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 2)

All major meetings between world leaders involves substantial preparation. And when I say all meetings, I mean all meetings ever in modern world history. All of them.
Suggesting that Obama would simply board a plane on a whim and have a meeting with a hostile head of state is ridiculous. It is not in the realm of reality.

There is simply no such thing as "no preconditions". The negotiations to set up such a meeting are in and of themselves a whole set of preconditions. And no meeting could take place without such negotiations.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com

by LandStander on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:06:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

So you're of Bush's mind? I'll meet with you to discuss you stopping your nuclear ambitions after you stop your nuclear ambitions.

The whole point of talking is to fix the problem. The preconditions the repubs want are for the other side to fix the problems before we meet to fix the problems.

It's stupid.

John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.

by recusancy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:06:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 2)

That's an excellent recitation of McCain talking points, Lori.
And pointing out that Obama plans to hop on the first plane to Tehran with no policy is a brilliant analysis of what he's likely to do.
If you're happy with a continuation of Bush's foreign policy why not just say so, instead of the ridiculous nitpicking of something that likely won't happen until 2010.

Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie

by toyomama on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:09:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

So what exactly is he going to do .

If he himself can't explain himself clearly forgive me for being in the dark about what his policy .

Didn't he just say in a speech a couple of days back that if Iran did not accomplish a couple of things he spelt out they would face continued Isolation from the world.

Now tell me exactly how he wants to do that by meeting as " president " himself with the guy , that seems to me to undermine the whole Isolation line of thinking.

Its a really incoherent position he is holding.

Someone should ask hi to name one serious foreign policy expert that feels its a good idea for the president himself to meet the guy without preconditions.

Setting up the strawman of why is anyone afraid to talk is not the issue , infact what I have said is that at the lower level I expect there would be vigourous talks to achieve some sort of conditions maybe a change of behavior or some concession before the president grants a face to the fact himself with the guy.

Assuming the president meets this guy without preconditions and nothing is achieved through months of talks , so how in the world do you carry out the isolation threat.

You just legitimized the guy.

When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line

by lori on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:19:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

face to face.

The more Obama talks about foreign policy , the more his stocks plummets with me and the more Mccain talks about Social issues his appeal takes a nose dive.

My vote may be determined by what topic is on my mind in the voting booth.

These are two critical areas/issues for me and I am in fundamental disagreement on foreign policy with Obama and Social issues with Mccain.

Dam ,Hillary Rodham Clinton won't give me this problem lol

When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line

by lori on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:23:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

I really don't think you believe what you just said...but if you do why don't you research the issue a bit?

Because Obama has made it clear repeatedly that there would be lower level meetings first. He shouldn't have to explain to every voter that he understands the processes that all educated voters understand... if you believe he is really that stupid than fine don't vote for him.

But know this; you are making a willful choice to believe that he is stupid in the face of a great deal of evidence that suggests otherwise.

I think maybe you should just admit the truth- you are mad that he is going to be the nominee and you are actively searching for reasons not to vote for him.

I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.

by JDF on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:32:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama said there would be preparation. (2.00 / 1)

I'm not an expert but from what I've seen other Presidents do, they set an agenda for what they hope to accomplish in the meeting. Usually the state department (and/or other diplomats) pave the way by setting it up so neither party is offended or is made to look bad to their own constituencies. Then the two national leaders have a private conversation followed by a nod and smile photo op. Followed again by more state department and diplomatic back and forth.

Republicans = Borrow and Squander

by GFORD on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:26:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Diplomacy by it's very nature happens behind closed doors - what on earth are you expecting to be told about negotiations? All he can tell you now is the general tenor of his policy towards Iran, and it would be ridiculous to expect more.

by interestedbystander on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:30:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Well I have a problem with his general tenor or policy or whatever you want to call it.

I am not in favor of the president meeting face to face without preconditions with the guy that wants to wipe out Isreal and chants death to America .

I have seen enough of the general tenor to find it unfavorable.

I can tell you when we get into the teeth of the general election he would have to deny he holds that position.

When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line

by lori on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:34:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 3)

Lori - "without preconditions" is a catch phrase, not a real thing. No meeting between world leaders - EVER - has occurred without exhaustive diplomatic work between the two sides.

Now, there is a difference between having a series of negotiations and having a major, public set of preconditions. There are always conditions, but in some situations one side will insist on a major concession from the other side before progressing a diplomatic agenda. Much like Israel often does with the PA (and vice versa), and like we do with Cuba. Insisting on these major concessions is more often a tactic to avoid diplomacy rather than engage in it. Bush, in theory, would talk to any world leader, assuming they first do exactly what he tells them to. This is not realistic (as is evident in Bush's foreign policy) and tends to further inflame aggressions (the opposite intended purpose of true diplomacy).

What Obama is proposing is not new or strange or dangerous. He is simply calling for a return to the sane and effective diplomacy of past administrations. The kind where world leaders and diplomatic corps work and negotiate to resolve problems, instead of just flinging inflammatory rhetoric back and forth until one day... the trigger slips.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com

by LandStander on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:47:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 2)

Exactly. I think Obama said it very well the other day.

Because this Administration has been very clear that it will not have direct negotiations with Iran until Iran has met preconditions that are essentially what Iran and many other observers would view as the subject of the negotiations.

That's the idiocy of Bush / McCain. We won't negotiate with you until you agree to all the things we are negotiating over!

Idiots.

Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:56:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

I have said it time and time again , the negotiations without preconditions should be done by higher level cabinet members not the president.

Then if they can come to some agreement on issues then the prez could meet if the diplomatic goals have bben reached .

You can meet without preconditions but it should not be led by the president ., the president himself should have soe preconditions before he/she meets.

Let me just put it like this the lower level govt. officials don't need preconditions but the president needs one.

When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line

by lori on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:07:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 2)

You can meet without preconditions but it should not be led by the president ., the president himself should have soe preconditions before he/she meets.

But isn't that what 'preparation' describes? I think you're conflating 'no preconditions' with 'no preparations' and there's at least one important distinction, which is that 'no preconditions' (as has been pointed out) pretty much puts the kibosh on any negotiation.

But Obama has always said there would be preparation. Part of that preparation will be exactly the kind of lower (and progressively higher) level talks you describe.

We all want a nuke-free Iran. Bush says neither he nor anyone in his administration will negotiate until they are nuke-free. Thus, at best we remain at a stalemate.

Obama says, let's start the negotiation process. Of course it doesn't start with him hopping on a plane. It builds up through the delicate (and sometimes difficult) means of diplomacy, but a diplomacy that isn't afraid to engage with hostile powers. For all the bluster of Bush, McSame and the neocons, Obama's foreign policy is much tougher, much more adult, and much more likely to produce results.

by vadasz on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:13:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The president is (or should be) (none / 0)

the Diplomat in Chief as well as the Commander in Chief. That's how it has been until Bush. Clinton, Reagan, Bush I, Carter all filled that role.

You may not agree with it but, other than the Cowboy in Chief we have now, our other presidents filled that role.

Republicans = Borrow and Squander

by GFORD on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:46:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

So Reagan was wrong to be meet with Gorbachev?

Kennedy was wrong to talk with Khrushchev?

You have a Bushian view of Foreign Policy from what I can see.

I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.

by JDF on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:34:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Presidential visits must be first (2.00 / 1)

1. Ahmadinejad does not control Iranian foreign policy. Ayatollah Ali Khamanei does. Ahmadinejad is a nutjob demagogue with no real power. Khamanei is a jerk but a rational one and can be dealt with through high-level diplomacy.

2. Nixon met with Mao "without preconditions," if by that you mean that Mao didn't have to give anything substantial up before talks. Same was true of every US-Soviet summit. There were tons of preparations, of course. But the point of the meeting was to get to a process of where the two sides could meet conditions for peace and security.

3. You concede that low-level negotiations are fine at first but high-level meetings will only legitimize bad behavior. This is where I fundamentally disagree. In almost every major breakthrough summit (Nixon in China, etc.) the Presidential visit set in motion the process for follow-up, lower-level negotiations that reached solutions beneficial for the US. The Presidential meeting didn't legitimize a dictator. It merely made it possible for the sorts of negotiations that could bring peace and security to the US and the world.

This isn't just good rhetoric. It's good policy.

by elrod on Tue May 20, 2008 at 04:21:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

"You just legitimized the guy."

He's already legitimized. And right now his tentacle (Hezbollah) is entrenching itself in Lebanon... while we sit here with our arms crossed and lips sealed.

by Homebrewer on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:31:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

First off... How is Iran isolated? Do we not buy their oil like crack? Does he not freely travel to the U.S. and speak at universities?

When you're a crack head you can't isolate the crack dealer.

John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.

by recusancy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:35:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There are various trade embargos (none / 0)

Oil and humanitarian aid flow freely though.

by Homebrewer on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are various trade embargos (none / 0)

Exactly my point. What the hells a trade embargo matter if it doesn't include oil?

John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.

by recusancy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:38:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 3)

Okay, I'm assuming you're coming at this honestly, rather than just trying to argue. So here goes.

'Preconditions' are a set of things that a foreign government has to do or give up in order to even get the privilege of having direct diplomacy with the president of the U.S. There's nothing wrong with this per se, but the Bush/McCain mold is to have them give up EVERYTHING before we will even talk to them. It's absurd. It doesn't work, it hasn't worked, it's never going to work. And it's not going to work because IRAN DOESN'T NEED THE U.S. They've got oil, the world wants oil, and that's not going to change.

'Preparations' is completely different. It would be ridiculous to meet with ANY foreign leader without preparations. This would involve the low-level meetings that would set what's on the table, what they're discussing, what each side hopes to gain from the talks, how they plan to move forward. It involves a lot of work, but it doesn't require a policy change of either nation in order to get the talks moving. (In this scenario, that's what the talks are FOR.)

Obama's position is to meet foreign leaders without PRECONDITIONS, not without PREPARATIONS.

And, for those who worry incessantly about lending the president of Iran 'legitimacy' let me put your fears to rest.
He's legitimate already. Russia deals with him, France deals with him, China deals with him. He was elected to his position in a (relatively for the Middle East) free election. In fact, there's a good argument to be made that the Iranian president should be granted MORE legitimacy, since an elected president is a whole HELL of a lot better than a bunch of unelected radical mullahs.

We, as Americans, have got to come to grips with the reality of the 21st century. Being the sole remaining superpower means we have LESS leverage on other nations. We don't have the Soviet Union to scare the crap out of people anymore, they don't NEED us like they used to.

What possible reason would Iran or Cuba or Venezuala have to meet OUR preconditions? What does it do for them? It's not like we can cut off the oil from Iran, or make Cuba any MORE destitute, or cut off oil from Venezuela, so what?

One thing. ONLY one thing. Bombing and/or invasion. You stop trying to build nukes or we kill you.

And thus, the McCain diplomatic strategy.

So, what was your problem with Obama's position again?

by EvilAsh on Tue May 20, 2008 at 05:14:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

You do know that the President of Iran isn't the supreme commander of the armed forces right? That he doesn't have the power to make policy on his own. This personalization of the Iranian regime in the form of Ahmedinijad is really beyond the pale for those "serious foreign policy experts" that you speak of.

This country needs to ditch its whole "Iran can't have a nuke cause I said so" attitude and start pushing for Iranian compliance with the international treaty they signed and ratified over 30 years ago. This includes a halt to the absolute trashing of the IAEA under Bush and their inspections regime.

But whatever, Obama worked on arms control with Lugar behind the scences but Hillary supporters tell me he ain't nothing but a stupid empty suit.

by wengler on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:01:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Yes, but Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, not the puppet Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Like we discussed last July and like Putin did in October last year. Let's stay real. Like you heaps, Lori, but let's watch the donut and not the hole.

by Shaun Appleby on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:56:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

Ha... He's cribbing from MyDD. His user id is Alegre. He's under deep cover.

John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.

by recusancy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:59:51 PM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 2)

Brilliant post, Jonathan. Reaching back to JFK and Rabin -- tough, pragmatic leaders -- is certainly a smart move on Obama's part and no doubt indicative of how he intends to lead when he is elected.

by JD Lasica on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:02:44 AM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

I'd be more comfortable if you would've included a leader that wasn't assassinated.

by wengler on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:04:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Not this time.

by Shaun Appleby on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:06:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 2)

It will be SO NICE to not be all flustered and on the defensive every time a foreign policy issue is brought up.

MAN, that's just awesome.

Can't wait for President Obama.

If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.

by Darknesse on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:14:41 AM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Webb's on Letterman right now.

John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.

by recusancy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:22:51 AM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

Thats my type of democrat , I love VA politicians sometimes more than Tennessee ones which would make me a turncoat lol

When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line

by lori on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:24:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Me too. But you live right on the border. Call yourself a Gate City suburb Democrat :)

by elrod on Tue May 20, 2008 at 04:22:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

I like Webb but he is faaaar too moderate for me.

Good guy though, and he has an excellent mind.

I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.

by JDF on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:36:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

As Keith Olbermann is wont to point out, the purpose of having a war in Iraq is to have a war in Iraq. And so it is with hostility to Iran. It serves its own twisted end.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:39:11 AM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 1)

Great to hear this question being put to the purveyors of fear. What are we so afraid of, and why do we let this fear rule our political discourse? Americans stood alone in fearing Iraq, in seeing threats in the shadows. Fear has been the preferred truncheon for cynical manipulation of popular opinion for far too long, it's time for change.

"I'm all for the delegate battle, and now that Obama's campaign is too, I'm all giddy. It's going to be the supers as kingmaker." J.Armstrong 01/19/08

by obscurant on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:39:34 AM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (2.00 / 3)

Ezra (a Clinton supporter) had a good post today about Obama being strong and right.

He's a relative dove who is, if anything, more aggressive and confident in his opinions than the hawks. And he's bashing their heads in every time they attack him.

John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.

by recusancy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:54:14 AM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

that guy is not a clinton supporter . Unless Obama recently said he was planning on invading Iran that's his guy.

When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line

by lori on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:23:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Ezra is behind Obama. However, he prefers Clinton's health care plan.

by DPW on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:25:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

Ya'know, having blogged through the dark hours of this primary campaign with total confidence in Senator Obama but little other than 'hope' and kool-aid to sustain us it is gratifying to see the broad tent appreciate some of the finer qualities of our inspiring and original candidate of choice. All is forgiven, Matt, Chris, Jonathan and Todd, isn't it, when a Democrat finally, and credibly, kicks some ass.

by Shaun Appleby on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:14:35 AM EST

What I love about this... (none / 0)

Obama has come across as being too nice a guy during the primary season. There are a number of reasons for that but he never when for the throat on Clinton by bringing up the past and slinging mud. With this issue, his slapping McCain around about Social Security and his recent defense of his wife, it's clear he's going to go after McCain in every way possible, whatever it takes.

I've been an Obama supporter for quite a while and this was my main concern. I'm not worried about that any longer.

If you vote McCain, you don't believe in anything Hillary has stood for her whole life.

by SpanishFly on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:41:41 AM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (1.00 / 2)

I think its rather silly of Obama to reduce the complex machinations of diplomacy to some sort of mano-a-mano game of chicken against McCain.

Okay, so let's say Obama does live up to his impulsive debate answer to meet with Ahmedinijad without preconditions, in his first year as President of the United States. So, Mr. Obama goes to Tehran, or perhaps meets up with Ahmedinijad in Jordan, or even Iraq, whatever venue the President prefers. They sit down, have a nice cup of tea, exchange flowery pleasantries, and then what? Obama lectures the enigmatic smiling Ahmedinijad with all the authority he can muster? And if it talks do not go well, maybe even a finger wag for added emphasis? Then what?

Assuming Ahmedinijad is not all that impressed, you know, because he only looks up to the "Twelfth Imam" for guidance, and anyway, they already have decided that it is in Iran's national interest to have a few nuclear bombs, and further who listens to an American infidel, even if he is America's hip, handsome, happening new sweetheart? So what does Obama do after tea, cakes and talks with Ahmedinijad?

The rather hawkish Carol Glick of The Jerusalem Post, offers an interesting alternative perspective beyond the current political point scoring: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article s/2008/05/obamas_unique_appeasement_styl .html

by superetendar on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:36:21 AM EST

Re: Obama: What is John McCain So Afraid Of? (none / 0)

In the past I guess, with Kerry, my reaction would be "Oh no! How can he possibly answer this one..."
and now it's incredulous laughter and "How does not-talking accomplish anything?"

Not that it's all due to Obama, but the atmosphere now has turned so drastically that those old attacks show up as ridiculous as ever.

And let me take this space to approve of HRC's response to this exchange. If that kind of thing is what she'll do after the convention then it will do much to form unity.

by MNPundit on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:59:41 PM EST

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