Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are racist

note: I posted this on myspace and I am posting it here because i want more people to read it.

No, they are actually not any more racist than the rich white liberal who is voting for Obama.

I think poor people, who are often uneducated, are more in touch with the way racism influence the lower economic class. When you are a poor, you are more protective of yourself and your family, which usually shares the same ethnic background you have, and poor people, regardless of their race, often cling onto people of their own race to get by in their jobs, does the media ever talk about the race relation between Hispanic and black people among the poor communities or asian people and black people? I think some white educated liberals who call poor uneducated people racist are actually the most clueless of all, because while they can talk about historical oppression and slavery against black people through their university studies , they haven't actually lived though the racial tension and racism that occur among non white groups in poor communities.

This is the elitism people talk about rich liberals have and I think that's why Obama is not getting the "working class " vote.

I suspect Obama does really well in states like Oregon , Iowa, and the west is because there isn't that many black people there, and those white people are either really well off, or they just never had to deal with black people and compete for jobs for them because there are not that many black people to ever experience that racial tension on a real life basis. So they might feel more sympathy about black people from an idealist or even elitist view, while in states where huge amount of African Americans concentrate in urban districts , there are more face to face racist tension among different racial groups, and people vote more along racial line, regardless if they are black, white, or in the case of Hispanic or others, they are even more threatened by a black man because the poorer you are, the more insecure you feel about other racial group who is trying to fight for your job - and usually white people who are well off, are not even involved in this kind of fight and so they have no clue what the hell racism is on that working class economic level.

And I feel a lot of people don't get that, especially those people who post on myspace, a lot of them probably are well off white suburban folks who have not experienced racism on that economic survival level...

Part of the reason I am not happy is because the mainstream media seems to NOT understand a single thing about working class people or sexism.

And btw, I am not white, I am asian , female, and live in Canada. lol . For real. So you can ignore me all you want, but i feel all north american city is not all that different from one another. And i only posted this because of an experience i heard from a poor asian co-worker who witnessed racial tension between asians and blacks in a local factory. And oh by the way, I went to university and i majored in politics, so dont even go there and yeah, I AM POOR.

Display:


ugh (2.00 / 0)

I like how, despite the evidence of racism in voting patterns against Obama, and despite the exit polling, and despite the video footage of racist white people saying they won't vote for Obama because he's black, somehow there are still people who want to pretend it's actually about "elitism."

Not all Clinton supporters are racist (far from it); there are, however, a material number of them who are racist, and we don't need to pretend otherwise.


by Slim Tyranny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:22:17 PM EST

Re: ugh (2.00 / 0)

and there are also a fair number of black people who are racist voting for Obama.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:25:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (2.00 / 0)

How so?


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:36:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (2.00 / 0)

You're basing that on the assumption that there are black people who hate white people voting for Obama. By the same token, you could say that there are sexist women voting for Hillary because they hate women.

What exactly does the name-calling accomplish?


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (2.00 / 1)

and you and slim are basing yours on the word of people who may have a vested interest in putting that forth. there is absolutely no evidence that the people the media selected to high-light represented their votes honestly. for all you know those who said they voted for Hillary because Obama is black were mostly BHO voters trying to make HRC voters look bad. And the same could be true of the 20% reported to have voted for him based on her being a woman could very well be made up of mostly HRC voters trying to do the same.

in other words your all talking about vapor without any real evidence one way or the other.


by zerosumgame on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hahahahahahahaha (2.00 / 1)

Wow, just plain wow.

Seriously, it is ridiculous to pretend that racism against African Americans isn't real.  There are racist white voters out there, and some of them are Democrats.

Blaming African American voters for pretending to be racist Clinton supporters in order to undermine Clinton --- that kind of shitty argument reminds of the National Review during the civil rights movement, arguing that the bombings of black churches could have been done by African Americans looking to cause trouble.


by Slim Tyranny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:19:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hahahahahahahaha (2.00 / 1)

show where I said anything at all related to your rambling incoherent reply? at no time did I say anything like what you wrote.


by zerosumgame on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:28:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read what you wrote again, (none / 0)

concentrate really hard, realize that you pretended there is no evidence of racism, realize you floated a conspiracy theory that those old, white racists on camera in West Virginia talking about not being able to vote for the black guy, then get back to me.


by Slim Tyranny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:34:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (none / 0)

Where's your evidence of that? Did Al Sharpton beat John Edwards in SC in 2004?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:05:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (none / 0)

Is there any evidence that black Obama supporters think white people are biologically inferior?


by Terrance Manley on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:12:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

false (none / 0)

Please, let's not pretend that African Americans are the REAL racists at work here.


by Slim Tyranny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:23:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Guess this was a dissappointing diary for you. (none / 0)

The title probably attracted you and you were hoping for something a little closer to your taste.  Normally, you wouldn't have to wait long around here but most of the Obama supporters are trying to refrain from calling us racists because they are trying to ease the hostilities as the primaries wind up.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:32:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ha (none / 0)

I like how you want to disparage me because (a) I challenged the strawman argument that Obama supporters think all Clinton supporters (or, specifically, all poor, uneducated Clinton supporters) are racist by pointing out that some of those supporters are, in fact, racist and (b) I pointed out that racism is real in America.

You know, blaming Obama's alleged "elitism" on his disconnect with white Democrats is crap on the facts; claiming that racism isn't in play is just absurd.


by Slim Tyranny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Race matters in my voting decision (2.00 / 2)

All other things being equal, I'd vote for the person of color.

But in this race all other things are not equal. I am voting for the better candidate.


by catfish1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The better candidate is Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 0)

Just to be clear.

All other things being equal from now on: I'll vote for the woman.

But in this primary, all other things are not equal.


by catfish1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:42:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The better candidate is Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Very seldom are things equal...

I base my support on issues and proposals... identity politics holds no sway with me.

Th "D" behind the name sways me though, but that's more ideological than anything else...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:57:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What has he proposed? (2.00 / 1)

What has he proposed that Hillary hasn't? On balance, she's been out in front proposing far more in her career than he has in his.


by catfish1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The better candidate is Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

You haven't voted yet?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:05:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The better candidate is Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

How many times are things ever "equal"?


by Aris Katsaris on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:17:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are (2.00 / 1)

Per capita income in both Oregon and Iowa ranks below the US mean.

Oregon - $27,796  Rank 36
Iowa - $28,342  Rank 31

See: http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank2 9.html


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:26:01 PM EST

Re: Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are (2.00 / 0)

You miss 2 points.

One, not just rich versus poor.

But also about the percentage of black people given in a certian state.

Not that many black people in Iowa or Oregon.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are (none / 0)

Indeed.  Just providing information pertinent to a central plank of the argument.  I didn't refute the overall line of inquiry, just thought these readily available data points could help test or sharpen it.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are (2.00 / 1)

But there are in WV?

But wait, there are plenty of black people in MD an VA.

But wait, there are few in SD

But wait, there are lots in NC

But wait....

By the way I don't think a significant number are racist, some yes but not most.  I think they are just busy working so the brand they know Clinton gets their vote UNLESS there is a very active anti war sentiment.

Check out the war sentiment in a state, where they place it's importance, then measure Obama's white vote there.  

Just my 2c
 


"The best way to show that a stick is crooked is not by arguing about it or spending time denouncing it, but to lay a straight stick alongside it" -DL Moody
by nextgen on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are (none / 0)

There aren't very many African-Americans in WV. There are a decent amount in VA.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:06:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The diarist explains this (2.00 / 1)

There is a lack of hostility where there is little connection.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:27:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist explains this (2.00 / 1)

How does the fact that both these states have sub-mean per capita incomes affect the assumption that Obama supporters are better off?  I'm not arguing against anyone at this point.  That's why they are data points without interpretation.  How does the diarist or respondents incorporate this information into the analysis?


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:34:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One can be removed from ethnic hostilities (2.00 / 1)

due to income (way out in suburbs or in private schools) or simply geography (Vermont, Iowa, etc.)


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One can be removed from ethnic hostilities (2.00 / 1)

How does West Virginia fit in to this?  Small minority population and low population density.  Or does poverty on its own do it?  This just seems a bit slippery to me still.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I doubt there is much racial hostility in WV (none / 0)

Oh sure, maybe with some of the old timers but probably not that much with others. West Virginia, in fact almost all of Appalachia, is lily white.

I suspect that some of Appalachia's rejection of Obama may have something to do with stylistic instincts.  Just like many urbane liberals can't stand George Bush's macho cowboy persona, Appalachians may find Obama's preening, strutting metrosexual demeanor less than appealing.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I doubt there is much racial hostility in WV (2.00 / 1)

Yeah.  And the Clinton brand has history there as well.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:12:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One can be removed from ethnic hostilities (none / 0)

You say it better than I do.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:56:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But you said it just fine! (none / 0)


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are (2.00 / 0)

So you believe the exit polls that say more uneducated people are voting for Clinton, but NOT the exit polls that clearly say race IS an issue? Talk about cherry-picking.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:27:06 PM EST

Re: Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are (none / 0)

They say it's an issue.  That doesn't mean they are racist.  2/10 people who answered yes to that question in WV voted for Obama.  Are they racist?


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I suspect diaries like this - (none / 0)

It is a class and economic issue as much as a racial issue - though no one wants to speak of it.  Still - this diary - I don't know.


by Xanthe on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:28:04 PM EST

Re: I suspect diaries like this - (2.00 / 0)

Just know this, I am NOT a white person. I am a poor asian female. So before you accuse me of being a racist, which I can be, don't dismiss me as some hillbilly. I am not.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:29:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, no - I am not accusing you (none / 0)

of being a racist - I just don't trust the authenticity of your diary.  And this comment sort of ... never mind.


by Xanthe on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and btw, hillbilly is (none / 0)

a pejorative term in our culture - you may not know this.  If you are authentic, read a book called The Dollmaker by Harriette Arnow.  It is a classic about a woman from the hills of Kentucky, beautifully written - one of the books that changed my own thought patterns.  And with all that is going on today re voting patterns, worth a cultural look-see.


by Xanthe on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:44:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suspect diaries like this - (none / 0)

Why can't you be a racist?


"I'm all for the delegate battle, and now that Obama's campaign is too, I'm all giddy. It's going to be the supers as kingmaker." J.Armstrong 01/19/08
by obscurant on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:42:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not my intention -- (none / 0)

I just don't trust the authenticity of diary - I am becoming very distrustful of the blogs lately.  Perhaps I'm wrong.  In any event - there is some merit in this diary -


by Xanthe on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:46:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are (none / 0)

Asian/hispanics and Blacks always have racial tension.  News about gangs rivalry bet Hispanics and Blacks is heard even in the prison cell.
... I simply don't understand it.

Your diary just pointed out the obvious. It's not always about race; maybe cultural differences, bad experiences,stereo-typing; or maybe it's just human nature.

BTW... I'm supporting Hillary!


by SHIBAM8P on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:28:57 PM EST

Your diary suffers from (none / 0)

the same broad generalizations that you are attempting to fight back against.

It is simply wrong to try and boil down the complexities of human emotion into one or two discrete events or items.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:29:01 PM EST

Re: Your diary suffers from (2.00 / 2)

I like sociology and i took some classes about that, i am also a psychology graduate, so i like talking about social trends and demographic. Obama has no problem mouthing off about poor white people clinging onto guns and religoin to fight bitterness, you should have no problem with MY generalization.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:30:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good for you alright (2.00 / 1)

Stick up for yourself against this supercilious jerk.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:35:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yummy names (none / 0)

just make me stronger :)


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:36:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your diary suffers from (none / 0)

I never said Obama was right to say those things.

Oh, and degrees don't make you right ;)

You overstep when you say things like "And I feel a lot of people don't get that.". There is no way to investigate a topic like this in anything short of a published paper without necessarily leaving out important details. Not that I don't appreciate the attempt :)


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your diary suffers from (2.00 / 1)

Well, i feel "alot of people" don't get it, but i also feel "alot of people" get it. It's all relative.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:38:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bad Title (none / 0)

Really bad.


by xdem on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:33:06 PM EST

Re: Bad Title (2.00 / 0)

it catches attention. :)


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bad Title (none / 0)

So does a car wreck...

This diary is destined for the wreck list!


"I'm all for the delegate battle, and now that Obama's campaign is too, I'm all giddy. It's going to be the supers as kingmaker." J.Armstrong 01/19/08
by obscurant on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Speak for yourself (none / 0)

We don't all swear allegiance to your party line.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:17:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gated Community Whites vote Obama (2.00 / 2)

This has been my experience.

Good diary, this took guts to put up here.


by catfish1 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:41:17 PM EST

Re: Gated Community Whites vote Obama (none / 0)

That 0.01% demographic was really the deciding factor...


by randomscientist on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:48:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, that's funny (none / 0)


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uneducated White people voting for Clinton are (none / 0)

If you're an Asian Canadian, how d'you figure you've got a grasp on our country's race dynamics? Just wonderin'.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:43:02 PM EST

I've lived in the places he's talking about (none / 0)

and I'd say his assessment is pretty fair.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:45:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've lived in the places he's talking about (none / 0)

I have, too- I was born and raised a dumb 'ole Iowa farmboy, lived in Wisconsin, and Virginia- along with short stints in Georgia, Florida, Texas, California, Minnesota, and Mississippi- and I disagree.

So. I suppose it's an opinion thing. I was, again, wondering what the diarist's basis was.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm talking about inner cities (none / 0)

in majority black neighborhoods (like 70%-95%).  Let's just say that one has to be thick skinned and resilient because African Americans can dish it out pretty well, too.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:53:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm talking about inner cities (none / 0)

Yes, see Virginia, Wisconsin for awhile, Mississippi, and I've shared that experience, too. Nonetheless, I still have reservations and ask rightly what judgment the diarist makes his observations from.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:59:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm talking about inner cities (none / 0)

They sure can. It has been my experience that even in the most racially diverse city , people still USUALLY hang around with people of their own race..BUT i do feel there is less racial tension in Canada...we dont have a MLK holiday.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:01:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm talking about inner cities (none / 0)

What do you mean by, "We don't have MLK holiday" ?

What does that have to do with anything?


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm talking about inner cities (none / 0)

i think slavery and a nation's history has alot of influence on the rae relation, because Canada , since its independence, has not experienced with direct black salvery, the racial tension is not as high..It means, because I am Canadian, i do not specifically how race relation plays out in the U.S, which has a different historical context, but i think i have some ideas.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm talking about inner cities (none / 0)

Then why, exactly, are you telling me about American race relations when you admit you aren't part of it?  


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:18:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dish what out? (none / 0)


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:08:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hostility (and harm) to members of other groups (none / 0)

What the hell else did you think I was talking about?


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:14:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hostility (and harm) to members of other group (none / 0)

Hostility and harm? Statistically it's unlikely that a white person would be attacked by a minority based on the color of their skin. As far as hostility goes, that doesn't appear to be the same sort of oppressive racism that the majority places on the minority and it's also caused by the oppression of the minority by the majority not based on some notion of racial superiority.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Blow it out your ass (1.00 / 1)

People commit crimes - not institutions.  Guilt and responsibility are personal, not societal.  I've never caused any harm to any black person but some black people have caused harm to me.  

You're not entitled to anything because you share the same skin color as someone who suffered years ago and I'm not guilty because I share the same skin color as some white perpetrator years ago.  If you really do insist on thinking that way, then you owe me because my ancestors fought for the north in the civil war.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:29:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blow it out your ass (none / 0)

Suffered years ago? You're confused. Oppression exists right now. Democrats are fully aware of this. Why aren't you?

Many African-Americans also fought in the civil war but but as far as the civil war goes, that doesn't pay back hundreds of years of oppression that continues to today. Sorry.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:33:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know you believe that (none / 0)

and that belief keeps you in psychological chains because it implies that whitey is responsible for your fortunes.

But I don't believe that, never will, and neither will the majority of people (and they're not all white) in this country.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:36:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know you believe that (none / 0)

I believe statistical evidence. You're operating sans evidence. In fact, you're operating at odds with the evidence.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:12:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TR speaks for itself by the way. (1.00 / 1)


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what is your point (none / 0)

that some individual black people have engaged in racist crimes and intimidation against whites? fine. I don't think that anyone can deny that. But what the hell does this have to do with uneducated people voting against Barack Obama - who has committed no race crimes that I'm are of - because of his race?
by JJE on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:36:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing at all (none / 0)

This was a personal exchange in response to a challenge from a poster with whom I have significant, and often contentious, disagreements.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:46:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing at all (none / 0)

You believe black people think they're superior to you? Is that correct? Because they don't like you?

Also, what percentage of African-Americans fled the party to vote for Alan Keyes in 1996 and 2000?

Additionally, who got more of the African-American vote in 2004? John Edwards or Al Sharpton?

One more, how many whites will leave the Democratic party to vote for the white guy should the black guy be the Dem nominee?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:16:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Answers (none / 0)

My relationships with black people have been a mixed bag.  Just like my relationships with white people.  However, only black people have committed certain acts described above against me.  I don't feel like a victim of black people.  I'm just describing the facts of my personal history.

Alan Keyes is a Republican and a particularly right wingnut Republican.  Obviously, African Americans don't like voting Republican.  Michael Steele is a nice, smart, and reasonable guy and he only received 25% of the black vote in Maryland.

Al Sharpton wasn't viable, had no prior elective office, and had significant skeletons.  Still, I thought he did a lot to rehabilitate himself in the 2004 primary.

I don't believe Obama should have run yet.  I'm an easterner and a Catholic with authoritarian perspectives.  I can't believe he ran for president two years into his first Senate term at the age of 46 and took on an elder statesmen before he had established cred and sufficient familiarity with the voters and the substance of the issues.  Couldn't he serve out at least one term for which he was elected and get more face time with the American public and garner more accomplishments?  Edwards had a couple more years on him when he ran in 2004.  He didn't get very far and I never would have voted for him.  What makes Obama so different?


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:38:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Answers (none / 0)

Your experiences aren't describing racism. You might say prejudice I suppose but clearly burglary is none of the above.

Thanks for making my point. African-Americans don't vote race. They vote substance. Whites on the other hand clearly vote race.

What makes Obama different? He's clearly a better campaigner than all of them.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:42:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree he is the better campaigner (none / 0)

He ran a better campaign than Clinton, too.  He has won the nomination.  But I still don't believe he is ready.  He strikes me as a rather immature 46 years old.  Four to eight more years, with more face time on the talk shows, a little more perceived accomplishments as a Senator, a little more gravitas, and a little more gray around the temples could make a big difference in the minds of the American people.

I make no comment on your other contentions.


by lombard on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:12:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree he is the better campaigner (none / 0)

He seems to be the most mature person in the race.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:29:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do me a favor (none / 0)

Try to resist responding to my posts in the future.

I take no enjoyment discussing things with you.  I don't even take any enjoyment insulting you.  You are pretty much a rigid, closed-minded bigot who substitutes talking points for the mental process of a real person.  Hell, I'm not even sure you are a real person - more of a caricature of a certain type of person, really.  


by lombard on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:58:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do me a favor (none / 0)

That's called projection.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:06:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've lived in the places he's talking about (none / 0)

I am a girl..


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:59:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry for the mistake! (none / 0)


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:05:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Degrees (none / 0)


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:47:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gutsy diary, alright (2.00 / 2)

Of course, the diary will not be well received by many around here because it makes two conclusions that are contrary to the uber-lib credo shared by many in these parts:

1) many blacks are actually participants in racial and ethnic hostilities rather than just poor, helpless targets of racists;

2) liberals' attitudes about others are partially the products of their naivety and indifference due to lack of personal involvement and experience with more negative socioeconomic circumstances.  


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:44:16 PM EST

Why, precisely, do you use liberal as an insult? (none / 0)


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:48:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're right. I should call them progressives (none / 0)

Liberal is a fine word.  So is conservative.  The right wingers hijacked the word conservative.  At least the left wing of this party seems to be leaving the word alone and using the "progressive" moniker instead.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:57:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gutsy diary, alright (none / 0)

Participants in racial and ethnic hostilities? How so?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:04:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, here's a few from personal experience (none / 0)

Mugging (roomate)

Burglary (numerous occurrences)

Vandalism

Yelling "dirty honkeys, white devils" into the windows

Being deliberately ignored when you walk up to the counter in a store

These are just a few of the ones I can remember.  It's been a long time.  Maybe things have improved.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:22:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, here's a few from personal experience (none / 0)

Your talking about economic crimes and you're talking about responses to oppressors. You're not talking about racism.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:24:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hilarious (2.00 / 1)

Define racism so that the acts of black people are always excluded from the definition.  That might work on impressionable kids and gullible, guilty white "progressives" but it doesn't work on me nor will it ever work with the majority of people.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (2.00 / 1)

I am progressive and it doesnt work with me, i don't take shit from anyone, i don't care if you are black or purple.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

I understand. Whites create the concept of oppression based on race. Then after some time, when that is is determined to be bad, they create a definition of racism (not the one that people who actually study it use though) that allows them to call the oppressed who are reacting to the oppression racist so as to create parity. It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.  


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:15:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

I am not a white person. I am part of the fucking oppressed and i will call racist behaviour as I see them.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:23:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

You're part of what oppressed?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:25:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (2.00 / 2)

Well, i am asian and a female. And you know what is upsetting? To hear someone saying that the only reason I say black people are racist is because I am actually brainwashed by racist white people who is redefining racism to mean black people's reaction to their historical oppression. Maybe you should put down your textbook, and just listen to what people have to say about their experience with reality for once.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

You think black people think they're genetically superior to you?

Where, exactly, are you from anyway?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

wow, i am not even going to bother with that stupid rhetorical question.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

Then you fail to even meet the basic definition of racism which requires a belief in your groups superiority.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:31:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

Is the text book you are reading from now only gives you one defintion of racism?


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

Yeah you might be thinking prejudice or bigotry but since you're from Canada I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about anyway when you talk about American racism.  


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:39:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

hum, prejudice, bigotry. whatever you want to call it. Yeah, i dont know what I am talking about, so just ignore me, my opinon is obviously wortheless because I happen to live on another planet, i mean, country..


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:46:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

How in the world would you know anything about the systemic and systematic racism or race relations in the US? Clearly it's not because you study them since you think that's stupid. Movies?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:48:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

Yes, i don't study anything, I am uneducated, i clearly stated that in my Op. I don't read anything, i dont pay attention to anything at all, all i do is kiss up to white people and watch Ricki Lake on TV. That's me.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:52:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

You just told me to get by head out of the textbooks. ..


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

that must mean i have never read a textbook.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:57:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

You said textbooks weren't useful here. I should instead pay attention to experiences. However, you're not part of our experience...


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:58:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

i believe textbooks are useful, thats why i went to university and studied political science...but i also believe experience is important and i believe racial politics in any urban city full of racially diverse people share some of the same problems regardless if the people living in it are Americans or Canadians.


by alright on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:04:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

But Canada doesn't have the same racial dynamic as America as it doesn't have the same oppressive history or system. So again, how do you know about American racism? Where did you get your experience with American racism?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:05:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

I think i already acknowledged the fact that I do not specifically know the experience about American racial politics, but i am speaking in generalization about what I feel to be true with regard to how people act racially in a multracial society.

To say I know nothing about racial politics is b it out of reach since alot of americans also live in an area where they do not have direct experience with racial politics, all i do is offer my opinon and if you do not see a legitimacy in my opinon, you are welcomed to F*** off. :)


by alright on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:10:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

The problem of course is that racism isn't genetic. It's caused by cultural forces. So you can't generalize about it based on some experiences in Canada.

All Americans are inundated with race issues in America.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:22:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

because culturally, americans and canadians have nothing in common.


by alright on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:29:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

Not when it comes to the history of oppression of the descendants of African slaves.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:35:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

apparently, you missed the part where some black slaves from the U.S went to Canada for freedom.


by alright on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:08:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

So what? Apparently you missed all of American history with regards to African-Americans.

Slavery.
Jim Crow.
Lynchings.
KKK.
Government assisted racist creation of suburbs.
Racially restrictive covenants.
Racial discrimination in every system.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:09:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

and therefore, when black people act in a racist way in response to the historical oppression they suffered, the crime is less or more offensive depending on the culture you happen to live in. If black people are racist in America, they are not really racist because they have a more viloent history (and theres no way I can make a judgement call on the racist behaviour of those people). right? well, i happen to disagree. So kiss my female asian ass.


by alright on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious (none / 0)

When are black people oppressing whites or others based on the color of their skin?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:44:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

being ignored when you walk up to the counter? (none / 0)

you blame blacks for that? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I won't bother with the rest.
by JJE on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:30:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your point? (1.50 / 2)

You forgot rape PJBuchanan usually lists sexual crimes as well.Is your point that some black people hate white people deeply,passionately and generally? Then you are right, I thought that was a given. I assure you that there are black folks that wouldn't cross the street to spit on you if you were on fire. All of the crimes that you list aren't equal though. It doesn't make sense to break into someones home based on race. However, it doesn't make sense to call me a honkey because I am a black woman.


Ida B. The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane.-Mark Twain
by Ida B on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gutsy diary, alright (2.00 / 1)

You gave a nice summary of this diary.

I also want to say many hispanice and many asian people are also participants in racial hostilities but maybe in different ways. I do not know which group is responsible for the most racial hostilities.

I try as best as i can to be open to everyone with as little preassumptions as possible, but the reality is the reality..it is what it is.


by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:05:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Charles Murray? Is that you? (none / 0)


by JJE on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go ahead, make dismissive, derisive jokes (none / 0)

But, when Democrats lose all these elections over the years, you don't have to look any further than in the mirror for an explanation.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Go ahead, make dismissive, derisive jokes (1.00 / 1)

They lose elections because Black folks think they're superior to White folks?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:17:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]