The Nakba comes to NYC

Photobucket

This past weekend, the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation began a month-long advertising campaign in New York City to raise awareness about the 60th anniversary of the Nakba. Over the course of the next month, more than 1,000 of the above posters will be displayed on the streets of Manhattan, educating New Yorkers about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 and the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

The ads in New York have been strategically placed to coincide with the route of the June 1st "Salute to Israel Parade" so that everyone coming to celebrate Israel will be reminded (or educated) that Israel was established through an act of ethnic cleansing.

The poster featured in the New York ad campaign is a version of the winning poster design entry from the Expressions of Nakba multi-media arts competition sponsored by the Campaign earlier this year. The winning poster was created by Ildiko Toth, a Hungarian-born graphic designer who is married to a Palestinian man trapped in the Gaza Strip for more than one year.

The most important unreadable portions (due to size reduction) of this poster are:

Names of Palestinian villages destroyed in 1948

The listed names of all of these villages,

And at the bottom,

In 1948, Israel destroyed hundreds of Palestinian villages forcing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to flee. These Palestinians and their descendants remain refugees to this day because Israel has denied them their right of return. Palestinians recall this record of dispossession, forced exile, and ethnic cleansing as the Nakba, or "catastrophe" in Arabic.

Other cities in the US are also hosting Nakba demonstrations (see the above site for dates and locations). Copies of the above ad free for downloading are also available from the End the Occupation campaign site.

Slowly but surely the word is getting out.



Display:


Re: The Nakba comes to NYC (2.00 / 1)

Cynthia McKinney, the AIPACed congresswoman from Georgia, spoke at the UN about the Palestinian tragedy, the Nakba, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948.

The full title of this article,
the The Honorable Sis. Cynthia McKinney Speaks at NYC Nakba Rally, which occurred on May 16, 2008

Cynthia McKinney remarks were at the Al Nakba Rally sponsored by Not in My Name at the United Nations, New York on May 16, 2008

On my birthday last year, I declared my independence from a national leadership that, through its votes in support of the war machine, is now complicit in war crimes, torture, crimes against humanity, and crimes against the peace.

I declared my independence from every bomb dropped, every veteran maimed, and every child killed.

I noted that the Democratic leadership in Congress had failed to restore this country to Constitutional rule by repealing the Patriot Acts, the Secret Evidence Act, and the Military Commissions Act.

That it had aided and abetted illegal spying against the American people. And that it took impeachment off the table.

In addition, the Democratic Congressional leadership failed to promote the economic integrity of this country by not repealing the Bush tax cuts. They failed to institute a livable wage, Medicare-for-all health care, and gave even more money to the Pentagon as it misuses our hard-earned dollars.

We can add to that list, too, an abject failure to stand up for human rights and dignity.

If the Democratic and Republican leadership won't respect the right of return for Hurricanes Katrina and Rita survivors, how can we expect them to champion the right of return for Palestinians?

If this country's leadership tolerates the wanton murder of unarmed black and Latino men by law enforcement officials--extra-judicial killings--how can we expect them to stop or even speak out against targeted assassinations in the Middle East?

If the Democratic and Republican leadership accept ethnic cleansing in this country by way of gentrification and predatory lending, why should we expect them to put an end to it in Palestine?

If the leadership of this country impedes self-determination for native peoples in this country, why should we expect them to support indigenous rights for anyone abroad?

And sadly, the sensationalist corporate media would rather trick us into thinking that reporting on a pastor, a former Vice Presidential nominee, and a former cable TV magnate constitutes this country's much-needed discussion of its own apartheid past and present, so why should we expect an honest discussion of apartheid and Zionism?

I hope by now it is clear. Our values will never be reflected in public policy as long as our political parties and our country remain hijacked.

Hijacked by false patriots who usurp the applause of the people and all the while betray our values.

I've decided that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans will operate any longer as business as usual--not in my name.

That Democrats and Republicans will use my tax dollars and betray my values, not one day longer--not in my name.

That neither the Democrats nor the Republicans have earned my most precious political asset--my vote.

And that now is the time to do some things I've never done before in order to have some things I've never had before.

And so here today, I declare my independence from weapons transfers: including Apache Helicopters; F'16s; sidewinder, hellfire, and Stinger missiles.

I declare my independence from occupation, demolished homes, political prisoners, and babies dying at checkpoints.

I declare my independence from UN vetoes, expropriated land, stolen resources, and the installation of puppet regimes.

I declare my independence from all forms of dehumanization and am not afraid to speak truth to power.

And I am happy to join with peace-loving people around the world who know that there can be no peace without justice.

Let us never tire in our work for justice.

Thank you.



Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Mon May 19, 2008 at 06:14:48 PM EST

thanks (2.00 / 1)

love cynthia mckinney.

if the rest of our politicians were so courageous, bush wouldn't have been granted the presidency in 2000.


by citizendave on Mon May 19, 2008 at 06:46:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yuck! (none / 0)


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yuck! (none / 0)

are you stalking me?


by citizendave on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, I hadn't noticed until now (none / 0)

The repulsive odor must just grab me when I pass one of your posts and makes me feel that I have to stop and spray disinfectant.


by lombard on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:32:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, I hadn't noticed until now (none / 0)

i don't want to spoil this diary with personal insults...so shall we say: pistols at dawn.


by citizendave on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Nakba comes to NYC (2.00 / 1)

Wow, that's great news.  Hopefully soon, more and more people will hear the TRUTH.

Thanks


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon May 19, 2008 at 06:19:05 PM EST

Re: The Nakba comes to NYC (none / 0)

Shergald. I see your posts. Can you explain who you are and why you are so vested in this.


Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:19:20 PM EST

Re: The Nakba comes to NYC (2.00 / 2)

Because it matters.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Nakba comes to NYC (none / 0)

Just a liberal blogger interested in human rights issues.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one that I seem to know most about, but it is not the only domestic and foreign cause I am vested in. But it is the only human rights injustice that I know about that Americans are protected from knowing about through media censorship and propaganda. It is also one which American taxpayers are sponsoring, unbeknowst to most of us. Therefore it is deserving of more exposure. Hence, my investment.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:09:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Food For Thought: (none / 0)

   Palestinians' "Peoplehood" Based on a Big Lie

   By Eli E. Hertz

   The Palistinians claim that they are an ancient and indigenous people fails to stand up to historic scrutiny. Most Palestinian Arabs were newcomers to British Mandate Palestine. Until the 1967 Six-Day War made it expedient for Arabs to create a Palestinian peoplehood, local Arabs simply considered themselves part of the `great Arab nation' or `southern Syrians.'

   "Repeat a lie often enough and people will begin to believe it."Nazi propaganda master Joseph Goebbels

   "All [that Palestinians] can agree on as a community is what they want to destroy, not what they want to build."New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman

   There is no age-old Palestinian people. Most so-called Palestinians are relative newcomers to the Land of Israel

   Like a mantra, Arabs repeatedly claim that the Palestinians are a native people. The concept of a `Stateless Palestinian people' is not based on fact. It is a fabrication.

   Palestinian Arabs cast themselves as a native people in "Palestine" - like the Aborigines in Australia or Native Americans in America. They portray the Jews as European imperialists and colonizers. This is simply untrue.

   Until the Jews began returning to the Land of Israel in increasing numbers from the late 19th century to the turn of the 20th, the area called Palestine was a God-forsaken backwash that belonged to the Ottoman Empire, based in Turkey.

   The land's fragile ecology had been laid waste in the wake of the Arabs' 7th-century conquest. In 1799, the population was at it lowest and estimated to be no more than 250,000 to 300,000 inhabitants in all the land.

   At the turn of the 20th century, the Arab population west of the Jordan River (today, Israel and the West Bank) was about half a million inhabitants and east of the Jordan River perhaps 200,000.

   The collapse of the agricultural system with the influx of nomadic tribes after the Arab conquest that created malarial swamps and denuded the ancient terrace system eroding the soil, was coupled by a tyrannous regime, a crippling tax system and absentee landowners that further decimated the population. Much of the indigenous population had long since migrated or disappeared. Very few Jews or Arabs lived in the region before the arrival of the first Zionists in the 1880s and most of those that did lived in abject poverty.

   Most Arabs living west of the Jordan River in Israel, the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and Gaza are newcomers who came from surrounding Arab lands after the turn of the 20th century because they were attracted to the relative economic prosperity brought about by the Zionist Movement and the British in the 1920s and 1930s.

   This is substantiated by eyewitness reports of a deserted country - including 18th-century reports from the British archaeologist Thomas Shaw, French author and historian Count Constantine Volney (Travels through Syria and Egypt, 1798); the mid-19th-century writings of Alphonse de Lamartine (Recollections of the East, 1835); Mark Twain (Innocents Abroad, 1867); and reports from the British Consul in Jerusalem (1857) that were sent back to London.

   The Ottoman Turks' census (1882) recorded only 141,000 Muslims in the Land of Israel. The real number is probably closer to 350,000 to 425,000, since many hid to avoid taxes. The British census in 1922 reported 650,000 Muslims.

   Aerial photographs taken by German aviators during World War I show an underdeveloped country composed mainly of primitive hamlets. Ashdod, for instance, was a cluster of mud dwellings, Haifa a fishing village. In 1934 alone, 30,000 Syrian Arabs from the Hauran moved across the northern frontier into Mandate Palestine, attracted by work in and around the newly built British port and the construction of other infrastructure projects. They even dubbed Haifa Um el-Amal (`the city of work').

   The fallacy of Arab claims that most Palestinians were indigenous to Palestine - not newcomers - is also bolstered by a 1909 vintage photograph of Nablus, today an Arab city on the West BankMount Gerizim, the population in 1909 - Muslim Arabs and Jewish Samaritans - could not have been greater than 2,000 residents. with over 121,000 residents. Based on the number of buildings in the photo taken from the base of

   Family names of many Palestinians attest to their non-Palestinian origins. Just as Jews bear names like Berliner, Warsaw and Toledano, modern phone books in the Territories are filled with families named Elmisri (Egyptian), Chalabi (Syrian), Mugrabi (North Africa). Even George Habash - the arch-terrorist and head of Black September - bears a name with origins in Abyssinia or Ethiopia, Habash in both Arabic and Hebrew.

   Palestinian nationality is an entity defined by its opposition to Zionism, and not its national aspirations.

   What unites Palestinians has been their opposition to Jewish nationalism and the desire to stamp it out, not aspirations for their own state. Local patriotic feelings are generated only when a non-Islamic entity takes charge - such as Israel did after the 1967 Six-Day War. It dissipates under Arab rule, no matter how distant or despotic.

   A Palestinian identity did not exist until an opposing force created it - primarily anti-Zionism. Opposition to a non-Muslim nationalism on what local Arabs, and the entire Arab world, view as their own turf, was the only expression of `Palestinian peoplehood.'

   The Grand Mufti Hajj Amin al-Husseini, a charismatic religious leader and radical anti-Zionist was the moving force behind opposition to Jewish immigration in the 1920s and 1930s. The two-pronged approach of the "Diplomacy of Rejection" (of Zionism) and the violence the Mufti incited occurred at the same time Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq became countries in the post-Ottoman reshuffling of territories established by the British and the French under the League of Nation's mandate system.

   The tiny educated class among the Arabs of Palestine was more politically aware than the rest of Arab society, with the inklings of a separate national identity. However, for decades, the primary frame of reference for most local Arabs was the clan or tribe, religion and sect, and village of origin. If Arabs in Palestine defined themselves politically, it was as "southern Syrians." Under Ottoman rule, Syria referred to a region much larger than the Syrian Arab Republic of today, with borders established by France and England in 1920.

   In his book Greater Syria: The History of an Ambition, Daniel Pipes explains:

   "Syria was a region that stretched from the borders of Anatolia to those of Egypt, from the edge of Iraq to the Mediterranean Sea. In terms of today's states, the Syria of old comprised Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan, plus the Gaza Strip and Alexandria."

   Syrian maps in the 21st century still co-opt most of Greater Syria, including Israel.

   The Grand Mufti Al-Husseini's aspirations slowly shifted from pan-Arabism - the dream of uniting all Arabs into one polity, whereby Arabs in Palestine would unite with their brethren in Syria - to winning a separate Palestinian entity, with himself at the helm. Al-Husseini was the moving force behind the 1929 riots against the Jews and the 1936-1939 Arab Revolt against two non-Muslim entities in Palestine - the British and the Jews. He gathered a large following by playing on fears that the Jews had come to dispossess, or at least dominate the Arabs.

   Much like Yasser Arafat, the Grand Mufti's ingrained all-or-nothing extremism, fanaticism and even an inability to cooperate with his own compatriots made him totally ineffective. He led the Palestinian Arabs nowhere.

   The `Palestinian' cause became a key rallying point for Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, according to Oxford historian Avi Shlaim. The countries the British and French created in 1918-1922 were based largely on meridians on the map, as is evident in the borders that delineate the Arab states today. Because these states lack ethnic logic or a sense of community, their opposition to the national aspirations of the Jews has come to fuel that fires Arab nationalism as the `glue' of national identity. (see details on the ramifications of British and French policy, which plague the Middle East to this day in the chapter "The European Union.")

   From the 1920s, rejection of Jewish nationalism, attempts to prevent the establishment of a Jewish homeland by violence, and rejection of any form of Jewish political power, including any plans to share stewardship with Arabs, crystallized into the expression of Palestinianism. No other positive definition of an Arab-Palestinian people has surfaced. This point is admirably illustrated in the following historic incident:

   "In 1926, Lord Plumer was appointed as the second High Commissioner of Palestine. The Arabs within the Mandate were infuriated when Plumer stood up for the Zionists' national anthem Hatikva during ceremonies held in his honor when Plumer first visited Tel Aviv. When a delegation of Palestinian Arabs protested Plumer's `Zionist bias,' the High Commissioner asked the Arabs if he remained seated when their national anthem was played, `wouldn't you regard my behavior as most unmannerly?' Met by silence, Plumer asked: `By the way, have you got a national anthem?' When the delegation replied with chagrin that they did not, he snapped back, "I think you had better get one as soon as possible."

   But it took the Palestinians more than 60 years to heed Plumer's advice, adopting Anthem of the Intifada two decades after Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 - at the beginning of the 1987 Intifada.

   Under the Mandate, local Arabs also refused to establish an `Arab Agency' to develop the Arab sector, parallel to the Jewish Agency that directed development of the Jewish sector (see the Chapter "Rejectionism").

   In fact, the so-called patriotism of indigenous Muslims has flourished only when non-Muslim entities (the Crusaders, the British, the Jews) have taken charge of the Holy Land. When political control returns to Muslim hands, the ardent patriotism of the Arabs of Palestine magically wanes, no matter how distant or how despotic the government. One Turkish pasha who ruled Acco (Acre) between 1775 and 1804 was labeled Al Jazzar, The Butcher, by locals.

   Why hasn't Arab representative government ever been established in Palestine, either in 1948 or during the next 19 years of Arab rule? Because other Arabs co-opted the Palestinian cause as a rallying point that would advance the concept that the territory was up for grabs. "The Arab invasion of Palestine was not a means for achieving an independent Palestine, but rather the result of a lack of consensus on the part of the Arab states regarding such independence," summed up one historian. Adherents to a separate Palestinian identity were a mute minority on the West Bank and Gaza during the 19 years of Jordanian and Egyptian rule - until Israel took control from the Jordanians and the Egyptians in 1967. Suddenly a separate Palestinian peoplehood appeared and claimed it deserved nationhood - and 21 other Arab states went along with it.

   Palestinianism in and of itself lacks any substance of its own. Arab society on the West Bank and Gaza suffers from deep social cleavages created by a host of rivalries based on divergent geographic, historical, geographical, sociological and familial allegiances. What glues Palestinians together is a carefully nurtured hatred of Israel and the rejection of Jewish nationhood.

Also, found through the blogosphere:

The authoritative source on the origin of "nakba" is none other than George Antonius, supposedly the first "official historian of Palestinian nationalism." Like so many "Palestinians," he actually wasn't - Palestinian, that is. He was a Christian Lebanese-Egyptian who lived for a while in Jerusalem, where he composed his official advocacy/history of Arab nationalism. The Arab Awakening, a highly biased book, was published in 1938 and for years afterward was the official text used at British universities.

...

On page 312 of The Arab Awakening, Antonius writes, "The year 1920 has an evil name in Arab annals: it is referred to as the Year of the Catastrophe (Am al-Nakba). It saw the first armed risings that occurred in protest against the post-War settlement imposed by the Allies on the Arab countries. In that year, serious outbreaks took place in Syria, Palestine, and Iraq."

Yes, the answer to our little quiz is 1920, not 1948. That's 1920 - when there was no Zionist state, no Jewish sovereignty, no "settlements" in "occupied territories," no Israel Defense Forces, no Israeli missiles and choppers targeting terror leaders, and no Jewish control over Jerusalem (which had a Jewish demographic majority going back at least to 1850).

The original "nakba" had nothing to do with Jews, and nothing to do with demands by Palestinian Arabs for self-determination, independence and statehood. To the contrary, it had everything to do with the fact that the Palestinian Arabs saw themselves as Syrians. They rioted at this nakba - at this catastrophe- because they found deeply offensive the very idea that they should be independent from Syria and Syrians.

You're right, shergald...the truth WILL be heard.  Unfortunately, though, the truth doesn't say what you think it does.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:26:21 PM EST

Re: Food For Thought: (none / 0)

" Most so-called Palestinians are relative newcomers to the Land of Israel"

are not most israelis newcomers to the land of israel?


by citizendave on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:30:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Most are indeed. (none / 0)

But unlike the Palestinians, they have never pretended differently.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:34:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To clarify: (none / 0)

I am a staunch supporter of a two-state solution and the dismantling of illegal settlements.  But negotiations cannot and will not succeed so long as the world continues to buy the laughably biased, pro-"Palestinian" propaganda that shergald is selling, any more than they would if the world was buying the hardliner Likudnik propaganda.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:37:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most are indeed. (none / 0)

have the palastinians not lived there for enough generations so as to have family properties with mature olive groves and productive land???

have they been there for 50 years? 100 years? 200 years?
how long does one have to live somewhere until it becomes their home?


by citizendave on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most are indeed. (none / 0)

No the zionists just claim that God gave it to them.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:45:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Most Israelis are atheists. (none / 0)

Only about 10% are theists or religious--most of them extremist Haredis.  But nice try.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:11:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most Israelis are atheists. (none / 0)

If not God, then what by what right do zionists claim Palestine for themselves?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

By the same right as India and Pakistan. (none / 0)

If you don't know what right that is, look it up.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:37:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most Israelis are atheists. (none / 0)

Would you really like an answer?  It is easy.  As of 1948, the Jews BOUGHT the land in Palestine, primarily from absentee landlords.  That is the part that is always missing from Shergald's post, that the land to which people claim a "right of return" was not actually theirs.  They were lessees, and Jews bought the land.  In fact, they paid quite dearly for it, well above market.  This is not Israeli propaganda, but the finding of the British protectorate at a time it was working to REDUCE Jewish immigration.  It was also the finding of King Abdullah of Jordan, King Hussein's father.


by dhonig on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:41:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dhonig comes up again with boloney., (none / 0)

In 1948, Jews in Palestine owned only 7% of the land, in spite of efforts to legitimately stake the ground. The remainder was owned by Palestinians, a small portion of which belonged to Druze and Christians.

If what dhonig says is true, why would the new landlords of the land, bulldoze over 470 Palestinian villages into the earth, and/or build Jewish only communities on other villages like the one several hundred Palestinians marched to last weekend? If all of the land was owned by the Jewish immigrants then why did the Haganah have to ethnically cleanse by force 750,000 Palestinians between April 15 and June 15, 1948 from their homes and land.

Was the Nakba just a landlord eviction? Come on dhonig. This is your worst post ever.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:49:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dhonig comes up again with boloney., (none / 0)

First, it is spelled either "Baloney" or "Balogna."

Next, you are, as usual, lying.  The UN Partition was made based upon ownership.  Jews owned, legally owned, approximately half of what was given to Israel in the partition (yes, I left that out, wondering if you would reply with an accurate correction, eviscerating your own argument, or with yet another lie.  You went with the lie).  

As for the remainder of your silly bootstrap argument, 'but what I claim happened in the Nakba proves what happened in the Nakba,' well, I have already given it more attention than it deserves.


by dhonig on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:55:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dhonig comes up again with boloney., (none / 0)

Your math is just a little off. The UN Partition offered 55% of the land to the Zionists, 45% to the Palestinians.

Somehow, 7% just doesn't add up to half, except in your propaganda world. The UN Partition did not give lands owned by Palestinians, over three quarters of the Jewish Partition, to the Zionists. They took it by force during the ethnic cleansing that transpired before and after Independence, and six months later, the UN passed Resolution 194, which supported the right of the ethnically cleansed Palestinians to return to their homes, lands, and villages and towns in what became Israel.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:48:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Food For Thought: (none / 0)

Your food for thought is nothing more than a repetition of propaganda intended to disenfranchise the Palestinian people of their homes and lands.

Did you forget to repeat Golda Mier's claim that there were only 50 thousand Palestinians in Palestine in 1948, that a Palestinian people did not exist, or the well known claim of the early Zionists that Palestine was a land without people waiting for a people without a land?

The difficulty with all these claims is that they lack substantiation, and given that anyone could quote Daniel Pipes already places into question the authority of simply stated, but unconfirmed facts, some of which are actually opposed to reality. The Ottoman census figures are underestimates, but if you will look at them again you will find that the ratio of Arabs to Jews populating the region was more than 20:1, possibly as high as 40:1 if the census were true estimates.

However, that the Nakba was a real event spanning over two months in 1948 has been confirmed by Pappas and Morris in their histories of the era. Look them up.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:59:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Food For Thought: (none / 0)

Shergald are you Palestinian?


Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Food For Thought: (none / 0)

No.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:50:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Antonius is a Zionist propagandist? (none / 0)

Gee, I wonder why so many Palestinians quote him then?

Fact: The Palestinians did not start demanding statehood until 1967...even after 1948, they were content to live under Egyptian and Jordanian rule of Gaza and the West Bank, just as they had always lived under somebody else's rule--Roman, Ottoman, Syrian, British, or what have you.  Palestinianism isn't nationalism, it's anti-Zionism, and that is indeed a fact.

That said, they should have their own state, free from Israeli settlements.  But that state is never going to happen so long as the supposed mediators of the negotiations believe the propaganda of either side...or as long as the Palestinians continue to advocate the total destruction of Israel rather than simply having a state of their own.  Until those changes are made, peace is not possible.  But by all means, shergald, continue to be part of the problem.  But you should take a good hard look at yourself first--it is not just the Likudniks who are drawing out the "Nakba", it is also rabid Palestinianists like yourself.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:22:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Antonius is a Zionist propagandist? (none / 0)

You wrote this, which tells everyone that you are not particularly knowledgeable about the issues:

Fact: The Palestinians did not start demanding statehood until 1967...even after 1948, they were content to live under Egyptian and Jordanian rule of Gaza and the West Bank, just as they had always lived under somebody else's rule--Roman, Ottoman, Syrian, British, or what have you.  Palestinianism isn't nationalism, it's anti-Zionism, and that is indeed a fact.

That's not a fact. The Palestinians, after the ethnic cleansing, just wanted to return to their homes and lands. UN Resolution 194, passed only six months after Israel's independence, declared their right of return. Most Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza lived from that time in UN Refugee camps, in tents. They were not content. Ever try a winter night in a tent?

You're being silly now.

The Palestinians did live under military occupations under the Ottomans and then the British for over four centuries, but they had their own local governments, towns and cities, agriculture, businesses, school systems, etc., whatever it took to make up a adaptable socioeconomic system.

Zionism excludes Palestinians as seen by the Jim Crow laws that pervade Israeli society today. In that sense, yes I suspect that Palestinians, even those who are Israeli citizens, are antiZionist.

Are you for Jim Crow? Or are you antiKKK?


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:03:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, it is a fact. (none / 0)

As multiple non-Jewish historians with no dog in this fight have attested to.  You're being silly if you claim otherwise.

Another fact: the "Palestinians" lived peacefully under other governments because they didn't to wipe them off the map.  The State of Palestine was founded in 1948 alongside Israel, but the "Palestinians" weren't content to have their own state...they wanted it all.  If they hadn't attacked Israel, they would have a state today.  Even after 1948, when Gaza was under Egyptian rule and the West Bank under Jordanian, the Palestinians weren't asking for a state, they were asking for better housing from the Egyptian and Jordanian governments.  Having a state wasn't their objective, until they realized that nationalist movements elsewhere got lots of sympathy and support from the West (coupled, to be fair, with the realization that the Arab governments had no interest or will to improve their conditions, since they made such good PR tools).  The Palestinians then rebranded themselves as nationalists, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Are you for Jim Crow? Or are you antiKKK?

If being antiKKK means calling for the death of all KKK members as the Palestinian extremists call for the death of all Israelis, then neither.  But nice job of combining false analogy with false dichotomy...turning two fallacies into a single fallacy is a most economical use of stupid.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:17:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, it is a fact. (none / 0)

This is all silly Elsinora. You really ought to read some history books.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Been there, read that. (none / 0)

Repeating "silly" over and over again or repeatedly saying "it's in the history books" is not a refutation.  It's an evasion--and an admission that you have nothing of substance to argue.

Farewell, my propagandist friend.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:40:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Been there, read that. (none / 0)

You become silly when you write nonsense like this:

Another fact: the "Palestinians" lived peacefully under other governments because they didn't to wipe them off the map.  The State of Palestine was founded in 1948 alongside Israel, but the "Palestinians" weren't content to have their own state...they wanted it all.  If they hadn't attacked Israel, they would have a state today.  Even after 1948, when Gaza was under Egyptian rule and the West Bank under Jordanian, the Palestinians weren't asking for a state

The Palestinians were offered a state in their own country of a thousand years. There was never any state of Palestine founded alongside Israel. What  you are referring to is the UN Partition of 1947, which the Palestinians refused to accept. Why? Obvious to most. There were between 400 and 500,000 Palestinians living in the Jewish Partition. Did you really believe that these Palestinians, living in their own homes, on their own lands, in their own villages and towns, were going to just get up and move into tented refugee camps in the Palestinian sector? How naive.

And wehat history book attests to the notion that the Palestinians attack Israel after Independence? This is really silly. Israel was attacked by surrounding Arab states, after more than 250,000 Palestinian refugees, the first of the ethnically cleansed from the month prior Independence, swarmed over the border into their countries (Eqyptian ambassador, interviewed around 2002). Israel was attacked by Arab armies coming to their rescue, especially as the ethnically cleansing continued through the next months until a total of 750,000 had been kicked out, as many as 10,000 of them killed on the way.

Next time you quote history, please add the links. And Hertz is no historian; just a propagandist intent on justifying the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:59:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Elsinora, stop believing everything you read.... (none / 0)

even if you want to believe it. Try historians next time.

Eli Hertz, a recognized pioneer in the personal computer industry, was the Founder, CEO and President of Hertz Technology Group, a public company dedicated to providing a range of technology-based solutions for efficient workspace environments. Hertz has authored and published many industry-related articles and books. Most notably, his bestseller, Now That I Have OS/2 2.0 On My Computer, What Do I Do Next? (Co-authored 1994, Van Reinhold), discussed IBM's then newly created operating system (70,000 copies sold).

Another article by Eli Hertz:

"Mandate for Palestine" The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights November 6, 2007
Eli E. Hertz

The "Mandate for Palestine" granted Jews the irrevocable right to settle anywhere in Palestine, the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, a right unaltered in international law and valid to this day. Jewish settlements in Judea, Samaria (i.e., the West Bank), Gaza and the whole of Jerusalem are legal.  More...    

Hertz article on the Palestinians was of course immediately published by David Horowitz on his site, Front Page Magazine. Horowitz as everyone knows is an extreme right wing Zionist who is particularly Islamophobic and antiPalestinian. He is possibly on a par with Daniel Pipes, another Likudnik of the worst kind.

I really suggest that you become more familiar with Israeli propaganda, especially as it is dispersed around the US by people like Hertz, Horowitz, and Pipes, and let me not forget, Alan Dershowitz, whose own book is rife with similar lies and propaganda. Norman Finkelstein outed him for plagiarizing a chapter from another book which provided a totally fabricated history of the "nonexistent" Palestinians.

Get better educated.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Been there, done that. (none / 0)

While I don't agree with much of what Hertz writes, this article was spot on historically.  Sorry, shergald, but the historians aren't on your side here.  And your "guilt by association" argument is laughable--so, if Horowitz posts a scholarly, non-biased article on his site because it supports his views, would that article be discounted by you as "Likudnik"?

Shergald, get back to me when your definition of "unbiased" means "unbiased," rather than "agrees with my preconceived notions, even if those notions are in despite of evidence."

(Incidentally, my dear little propagandist, Hertz's article is fairly short and thus can be posted on MyDD.  I think attempting to post a historian's book here might be a little problematic, however.  Since Hertz is accurate and concise, I went with his article in the interests of feasibility of posting and reading.  Simple as that.)


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pro Israel Propaganda Problem (2.00 / 1)

Like all human rights movments there are the resistors. There are those who insist these affected people are not real. They are not really people or people worthy of our caring. There are people who insist time and time again that they have a right to abuse these people. They have a right to oppress them, kill them, take there land, treat them as one would refuse, do any damn thing they want cause these people are not worth saving. I refuse to accept that. I will not accept any justification for dehumanizing people. We are all people and we are lucky to be born where we are with the privledges we have. But we know very well if we were born in a refugee camp, what happened 60 years ago does not matter as much as whats going on right now. Right now people are suffering and it can be helped. This suffering is not neccesary and it can be resolved. The people responsible for that suffering are financed by our goverment which has thus far given tacit endosment of this treatment by not denouncing it. It is our duty as good HUMAN BEINGS to do something.


by edtastic on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:36:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Nakba comes to NYC (2.00 / 1)

It's a tragedy to be Palestinian. If it was me, i would be tearing my heads apart every day. Trying to make sense of this loss.
It's a terrible terrible existence. They need their own country.
Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:10:36 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.