John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (UPDATED)

It looks like John McCain is trying to rustle up those good ole national security fears to divert from his worrysome lack of knowledge about the economy.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/19/m ccain.free.trade/index.html

(CNN) -- Sen. John McCain Monday faulted Sen. Barack Obama for downplaying the threat from Iran and again called the Democratic front-runner's judgment "reckless," the latest jabs in a foreign policy fight that could continue to the general election.

"Such a statement betrays the depth of Senator Obama's inexperience and reckless judgment," McCain said. "Those are very serious deficiencies for an American president to possess."

more after the flap...

But of course, we remember rhetoric very similar back in 2004:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/1 7/main/index.html

Across the continent, Vice President Dick Cheney savaged Kerry's record on national security issues, saying the four-term senator from Massachusetts has provided "ample doubt" about his readiness to lead the nation.

"Whatever nuances he might fault us for neglecting, it is not an impressive record for someone who aspires to become commander in chief in this time of testing for our country," Cheney said.

So are we back to the good ole politics of fear-mongering? While Senator McCain is certainly correct, it seems like he's trying to amp up the threat Iran poses; one that was created partly because of the GOP and McCain's best friend, George W. Bush:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0825/daily Update.html

The United States, with Coalition support, has eliminated two of Iran's regional rival governments -- the Taliban in Afghanistan in November 2001 and Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq in April 2003 -- but has failed to replace either with coherent and stable political structures. The outbreak of conflict on two fronts in June -July 2006 between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza, and Israel and Hizbullah in Lebanon has added to the regional dimensions of this instability.

Consequently, Iran has moved to fill the regional void with an apparent ease that has disturbed both regional players and the United States and its European allies. Iran is one of the most significant and powerful states in the region and its influence spreads well beyond its critical location at the nexus of the Middle East, Turkey, the Caucasus, Central Asia and South Asia.

This influence has a variety of forms but all can be turned against the US presence in Iraq with relative ease, and almost certainly would heighten US casualties to the point where a continued presence might not be tenable. Sources in Iraq are already warning that the major cities (including Basra and Baghdad) have witnessed a rise in the activities of Iranian paramilitary units and the recent bout of violence and instability in Basra is now considered to be a small display of what would happen if Iran itself was targeted.

How can someone like John McCain, who is now fully behind the Bush doctorine in the middle east, make such brash statements while fully aware of the fact that one of the main reasons that Iran is so powerful now is because of the power vaccum we've created in Iraq, and the one that we will continue to create if we're in Iraq for the next "100 years"?

Can it get much worse in the Middle East for us right now? Senator Obama is certainly correct when he says things like this:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washingt on/2008/05/barack-obama-vs.html

Obama, speaking later in Billings, Mont., clearly had gotten word of McCain's sharp remarks. Early in his speech, he sought to undercut the "Realpolitick" stance McCain is trying to corner for himself by calling it "naive and wishful thinking" to insist a country "meet all your conditions" before sitting down with its leaders.

Noting the ongoing negotiations that occurred throughout the Cold War -- under both Democratic and Republican administrations -- Obama asked why the U.S. should not "have the same courage and confidence" to talk to its enemies.

It's time to stop the fear mongering and understand what's at risk in Iran, and the beast that we have created in the middle east. John McCain is wrong on Iraq, and wrong on our actions in connection with Iran, because he has pledged to continue the misguided and unfortunate policies of George W. Bush. For John McCain, someone who likes to preach to American Patriotism as the "American President Americans have been waiting for", he sure seems to think Americans are terrified with a different approach to problems in the Middle East. Listen, John: We're sick of the Republican way. Stop trying to scare us into staying with it, because it's not going to work anymore.

UPDATE:Map, downthread, has given me this link to a presser from Barack, where he smokes John McGeezer on foreign policy:

http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-obama-presser-2/

This is my favorite part:

BO: Well I don’t take what Bush says personally, but I was offended by what is a continuation of a strategy from this White House now mimicked by Senator McCain that replaces strategy and analysis and smart policy with bombast exaggerations and fear mongering. That’s what we heard yesterday. The notion that you would go before the Israeli Knesset on the 60th Anniversary of Israel’s independence and use a term like appeasement and suggest somehow that Democrats, people like myself who believe that we should have tough diplomacy to accompany our military power in dealing with problems in the region, is wrong. And for Senator McCain then to compound it by somehow suggesting that I couldn’t protect the safety of the United States when it is George Bush’s policies, supported by John McCain, that have empowered Iran.


Display:


Tips (2.00 / 11)

Because John McCain needs to understand one thing: the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:32:29 PM EST

Re: Tips (2.00 / 3)

Yes, zcflint...Thank you for being redirecting our anger toward our real enemy, you're the best!!  I'd rec you but you know...


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:37:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips (none / 0)

I'm rec'ing and mojo'ing for ya!


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips (2.00 / 1)

Thanks fogiv


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips (2.00 / 1)

I'll rec and mojo you for this... well done...

You want REAL fear-mongering... let me give it a shot...

President John McCain.

There you go... that should scare the socks off you...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:39:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (2.00 / 1)

Nicely written and well-sourced, especially in comparison to at least one diary on the wreck list.

Rec'd for taking the fight to the enemy. Unfortunately, you said nice things about Barack Obama which means that this will never see the light of day.


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:47:19 PM EST

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (1.50 / 2)

Mccain's position on Iraq and Iran is the responsible one in my opinion.

I don't believe a president speaking 1 on 1 without any preconditions to that holocaust denier is reasonable and Obama himself seems to be backing away from it on a daily basis .

I don't know if there is any serious foreign policy expert on the ideological spectrum would tell you its a great idea . You can talk vigourously to your enemies but before you put the prestige of the president on the line you better make sure you have used lower government officials to gain some of things you want.

In terms of Iraq , Mccain is one of the few folks with credibility on it , he was right on the need for more troops , the surge .

These were principled positions he took that would have just about ended his presidential prospect unlike Clinton and Obama who have voted against supplemental and funding bills for the troops.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:47:21 PM EST

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (none / 0)

If they're important enough to punish then they're important enough to talk to.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:49:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BTW (2.00 / 1)

The only principled position on Iraq was not going there in the first place.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

So you would have preferred if Saddam Hussein was still in there ?

Thats the essence of what you are saying.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (2.00 / 1)

To the mess that we have now? Trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives wasted for a lie - our security more shaky than it was before - diverting attention away from the people that really attacked us to settle a revenge score for Dubya's father?

Yes.


by upstate girl on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:57:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (2.00 / 1)

Are you really attempting to justify the Iraq war? Is this a joke?


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:59:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (2.00 / 1)

Lori is pro-Iraq war, which is why she supports McCain over Obama.  Or said words to that affect in the past.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:06:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

I don't know what you mean by justify .

However I certainly don't fault those who cast a vote for the war in terms of what was going on back then.

And I think its great Sadamm Hussein  is out of power , its easy to be quarterbacking the whole thing now , but as of the situation when the vote was taking place , I personally don't fault those who voted for it.

In terms of going forward now , Mccain's position is right one and if a lot of folks can look past the rhetoric , our candidates are not far off from where Mccain is but due to the pressures from the primary voters , they say very ridicoulous stuff like I would withdraw troops with disregard to conditions and the military.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:09:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (2.00 / 1)

Dude, Hillary said that she would withdraw troops irregardless as well, in the PA debate in April.

We shouldn't be there now, and we shouldn't have been there then. It was on faulty evidence, he lied to get us there, and if you want to start going after oppressive tyrants, then there's plenty of other places to start than Iraq. Of course, now we've created a terrorist hot spot which is, in many ways, worse off than it was under Saddam Hussien. How can anyone support this war, with not just thousands of Americans dead, but tens of thousands of Iraqis dead as well?


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

This has nothing to do with Hillary or Obama.

Both their positions are not appealing to me , infact a lot of folks who speak for the national democrats leave me in shock when they talk about National security , specifically with regards to Afganistan and Iraq.

They say stuff like lets leave Iraq and go and fight the terrorist where they really are in Afganistan/Pakistan , now I am not disagreeing about the fact that we should focus on that country but who the hell are we fighting in Iraq , it is sometimes incredible to believe , AQI were damn near hoisting caliphate flags all over Anbar and the west in 2005 , yet we are supposed to just pull out without regards to the great strides the military has made under Gen. Peatreaus . I would expect the president to get us out of Iraq with our national security assets in place and help the Iraqi's along now.

A lot of folks are still living in the bubble of 04/06 , things have improved there and I don't believe in a reckless withdrawal.

I don't care if it is Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.

By the way I am sure you can read what my name says and you can surely tell that is not a dude , so if thats your attempt to be rude , it only reflects on you.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (2.00 / 1)

No, my use of "dude" was not an attempt to be rude, it's just my normal address for anyone. If you were offended, I'm sorry.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this, I don't think we need to be there, the people don't want us to be there, and minus some miniscule gains, it's time to get the American troops back home. I'm sick of seeing deaths every day over there.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

There is Al Quaeda sympathisers in Britain. So what if theere are small pockets in Iraq? Are we going to invade every damn country where there is an Al Q sympathiser?

All those policies of Hillary you support? Guess what. With the high cost of the Iraq war, there wont be enough money to go around if this war keeps going on. Hell, we spent way too much money already.

The strife going on in Iraq is only a tiny part of the troubling global collective of islamic groups that are intent on spreading radical islam in other countries. Iran does not send "missionaries" to set up madrassas in other countries like some of those saudis and others did. We should be concentrating on those. Not on some violent tribal based strife in Iraq. There is strife all over AQfrica. Why not save every one of those countries?

When you keep spoiuting all this bullshit about "oh what would happen if we leave now" , why don't you roleplay and tell us what would happen in both cases in your mind? Leaving soon versus leaving whrn the job is done. How much would you think would be spent on such a war to get the job done?

And most important of all, why would you trust a man who belongs to a group that has been the same shit for years that the new strategy is working? All a surge does is reduce violence temporarily.  No shit. That is like saying adding 50 extra cops to a crime ridden neighborhood reduced crime. But if it were that simple, why not assign the 50 cops to this neighbhorhood until the auhtorities win the war against crime in that neighborhood> I will tell you why. it costs a lot of money. And there is no guarantee crime wont return in the neighborhood after the surge of cops leave.


by Pravin on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:32:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

You seem to be getting your talking points from AIPAC and the neocons. You are nothing but a Lieberman democrat who knows shit about the middle east when you make such a big deal about Al Quaeda raising Caliphate flags in Anbar and all over the west. First of all, do you know for sure that all of these guys are Al Quada?  What percentage of the overall strife is Alquaeda? Can you say with any authority that it is more than 10%? Seriously. And it is accepted that any presence Al Quaeda had in iraq has only gone up after the war started.  Just listen to Michael Ware on CNN , the rare journalist who will tear apart most of your arguments already raised by the FOX NEWS crowd.


by Pravin on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:36:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (2.00 / 3)

Sadaam Hussein was not a threat.  He couldn't tie his shoelaces in the morning without help, for crying out loud.  He was a threat to his own people... and we didn't care about that until we needed a convenient excuse to hate him.

Kim Jong-Il is still in power in North Korea.  He has starved millions.

We PUT Augusto Pinochet in power and he slaughtered hundreds of thousands of his own people!


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (2.00 / 1)


    Yes, I would prefer that to our current situation there. Thousands more Americans would still be alive. We'd have tons more money than we do, b/c we wouldn't have spent the billions in Iraq.

  We likely would've caught Bin Laden. Our gas would be cheaper.  

  To throw all that away simply to remove a man who did not remotely threaten the USA in any way was a bad move. Arguably the worst decision in the history of US Foreign Policy.


by southernman on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

The money spent on iraq to hypothetically save "American lives' could have been spent right now to save many poor americans  lives from substandard healthcare.


by Pravin on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (2.00 / 1)

I'm sure that most Iraqis would prefer that Saddam was in there as well at this point.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:02:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

To what happened? Definitely.

Hussein would have eventually been overthrown by his own people - and when that happened it'd have necessarily happened by an alliance that composed all ethnic/religious groups, and thus at least had some chance of unity afterwards.

Instead Iraq got an outside intervention which lead to civil war which led to even more tyranny and murder than the Iraqis had seen, and disillusioned a whole generation of Middle-easterners to the idea of democracy.

Saddam was a monster, but the war that was launched was an even greater monster.


by Aris Katsaris on Mon May 19, 2008 at 06:33:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

Good point. You know, I have no problem if US wanted to overthrow Saddam using moral reasons. But then, when you use security based reasons, you can't do that by increasing the bullsye on your head by singlehandedly invading Iraq(Does UK really count as a diverse coalition member?).

Bush should have spent more time convincing other countries. If he was more patient, I bet France and other countries would have been bigger targets of the fanatics and may have been more inclined to join in. You never know. Europe was in the midst of their own islamic problem at the time too. Now all we did is put them lower on the totem pole of the terrorists favorite targets and that will put less of an urgency in their minds making it harder to persuade them to cooperate with us.


by Pravin on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:40:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (none / 0)

even though they really don't want to cast a vote against .

You would think they would have enough courage to do what is right instead of cower to pressure


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:51:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (2.00 / 1)

I disagree completely...  McCain is taking the same track as Bush and co.  Bomb first and ask questions later... there is a time for diplomacy.  The neocons who have raged havoc on our foreign policy do not know shit about diplomacy.

A war against Iran is not only unwise, it is unwinnable.  Iraq couldn't beat them and WE WERE ARMING THEM... and they were right next door.

Is the Presient of Iran a radical...?  Absolutely.  But no more radical than some of the nutjobs running America's foreign policy at present.  Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is catering to the more radical of his supporters when he waxes violent against Israel... it is not something they would act on.  they already know what retribution would be in store.  George Bush caters to the more radical of his supporters frequently, especially when he saber rattles against Iran.

Iran has some powerful allies in the world... unilateral aggression by the U.S. will not be viewed kindly.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:57:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (none / 0)

I'm uprating you cause I don't think you deserved an HR for your comment.

That said, I disagree on your Iraq position and I know you aren't accurately describing Obama's position on negotiations with Iran.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:04:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (2.00 / 1)

Fair enough, but I stand by my TR. Calling John McCain the voice of reason on Iraq/Iran is a quintessential GOP talking point.


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:11:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (2.00 / 1)

John F.Kennedy and Ronald Reagan think otherwise.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (none / 0)

I'll agree to disagree....that's all


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've heard this before. (2.00 / 1)

I don't believe a president speaking 1 on 1 without any preconditions to that holocaust denier is reasonable and Obama himself seems to be backing away from it on a daily basis .

So... you don't want to talk to anyone who doesn't think or believe like you do?

Well, that explains HillaryIs44 and TailorMarsh, I suppose.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (none / 0)

McCain was right on more troops assuming one feels for the need to go into Iraq in the first place. Even if you went with McCain's plan, the opportunity cost at occupying Iraq was too high instead of outrageously ridiculous as it stands now.

You do not scare fanatics with death threats. Those fantatics welcome conflict because they get high on the prospect of more conflict like a drug addict.

Dont spread such liebermanish shit on mYDD. we have taken every single argument on Iraq and Lieberman style defense policy and exposed it for the shit it truly is many times before on MYDD.

if there is a major breakin with a killing in your neighborhood, how far will you go to defend your neighborhood? It is the equivlaent of giving up your kids educational savings, your vacations, screening to get into your house, spend the entire time discussing with your neighbors how to go invade some neighborhood from which the robbers came from, put multiple checkpoints on hyour street, get fingerprints from your friends to come in.  One can go on and on on becoming "safer". At some point, if you have to pay all of this with your own pocket, you will say enough is enough, let us be realistic.


by Pravin on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McCain and the politics of fear-mongering (none / 0)

Why the hell has the US talked to dictators in South America and Africa in the past? You do realize we have talked to reprehensible people from other countries in the name of doing  business or maintaining peace. Even Lil Kim from N Korea. What about China which gives arms to heinous outfits in Africa to drum up trade?


by Pravin on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:23:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

John McStupid is a moron and he thinks (2.00 / 1)

the voters are morons too. Adults are well aware that the Soviet Union was far more dangerous than Iran who spends next to nothing on their military relative to ours or the former Soviet Union.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:49:12 PM EST

Re: John McStupid is a moron and he thinks (none / 0)

Some voters are indeed morons. Trust me. There wil be plenty of people, even some who think the iraq war is stupid who will think this statement is nothing but a slight exagerration at worst.


by Pravin on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:14:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John McStupid is a moron and he thinks (none / 0)

Probably a few (plenty would be depressing) and I'm sure the media won't do much to present the facts so they'll likely go on believing that. My hope is that it is only a very few.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:24:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama Press Conference (2.00 / 2)

Can you add this link to the Obama press conference, where he obliterates Bush/McCain on their horrible foreign policy?

http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-ob ama-presser-2/

I think there's video around too.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Mon May 19, 2008 at 05:19:39 PM EST

JOHN MCCAIN GUMP (none / 0)

IT IS SIMPLY AMAZING THAT THIS KIND OF NONSENSE FROM MCCAIN IS GIVEN EVEN SEMI CREDIBILITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

Anyone who says this kind of shit is crazier than Rev Wright even on his craziest day. yet Wright is the loose cannon while McCain is respectable.

Why are the democrats not destroying McCain on this making him look as dumb as he deserves to be known? Anyone who makes this kind of gaffe has to be looked upon as a total joke if the DEmocratic Party would have done its job of convincing without doubt that all kinds of conventional thinking on the middle east is just stupid. But the Democratic Party has been so wussy at times even after they gained a majority in the senate and houe that this kind of statements is seen as merely as the defactor view instead of idiotic.

It's true the majority of americans oppose the iraq war , but there are still quite a few who don't quite think everything about the knowledgebase is faulty. We only succeeded to convince the public that the iraq war was conducted ina astupid manner. But we have not convinced enough of them that the line of thinking that took us  into a stupid war is stupid at its very core.


by Pravin on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:13:35 PM EST


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