From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic discussion on Barack Obama's Vice President

So Todd today has given us a poll showing that the Obama/Clinton ticket is a somewhat overwhelming favorite among registered Democrats. The VP spin is going around and around and around now, as Barack has more or less clinched the nomination.

So where do we go from here? I think the Veep discussion is still partisan, and I can admit that I am somewhat involved in that partisanship, as I am a militant Clintonista, and will be, even if I admit that Barack has won and she has lost the battle for the nomination.

Time to go UNDER THE FLAP...

These type of feelings, I think, are pretty easy to understand with such a heated nomination battle going on. So, the question is, who is most likely to provide healing, help BO reach out, and give Democrats not just the best chance to win in November and give us effective and strong leadership in not just the White House, but the Senate and House as well?

While I love Hillary to death, I want to be completely honest here: I don't think she would be offered, or accept the Veepship, or even might be the best overall choice. One thing that I think that the Democratic Party lacks on whole in the Senate is a fighter. I think that Hillary fits that bill 110%. Perhaps she could even get a cabinet position, but I think that a future as Senate Majority Leader as a incredibly strong voice for Democrats on a nationwide level would be ideal for her; and I think that's why she won't take the Vice Presidency. She also wouldn't be a bad Govenor of NY. We don't know how things with Paterson are going to go, but if they go downhill, it's a battle worth fighting and that experince could oil her up for a 2012 (if Barack loses) or a 2016 run.

What I DO think needs to happen is follows: if my hunch is correct on Hillary's intentions (no guarantees there), then a public showing of unity would come in the form of this: Barack publicly offers the VP position to Hillary, she publicly turns down the VP position. It's a win-win for both teams. Obama heals alot of wounds with the offer, and still gets a VP pick because of her decline. While there's no guarantee that it goes down that way, it's the best way to get out of a sticky situation.

But who should Barack select as his nominee, then?
I think one of the main things that it should be is either neutral to Hillary supporters or reaching out to Hillary supporters. It also shouldn't be someone conservative, Nunn, Hagel, sorry, there are plenty of REAL Dems that can do the job. To be honest, the idea of a "crossover ticket" kind of makes me vomit. While Hagel is a nice Republican, his social stances in general don't make me feel good. Nunn is a pretty big time DINO, at least from my limited knowledge of him.

So, what choices can Barack make that are solid? I think Wes Clark fits the bill immensely well. He's got national security cred, he's liberal, and he has the "tough image". He also has major Clinton cred in my book, at least. He had some problems campaigning in 2004 but I think that those have been fixed for the most part.

Strickland and Rendell are good too, both would play a huge part in bringing in their respective states, although I think Rendell could do that off the ticket. Strickland has an A rating with the NRA and could appeal to conservative leaning independents. Both are strong Hillary supporters but strong Democrats as well. Either of those three would show a strong "unity" message.

In terms of "neutrality", I think John Edwards could be the way to go. I think he compliments Barack incredibly well. Still the media narrative of "400 dollar haircut" bullshit and his already ran with Kerry background could be bad as well. That being said, I think he compliments Barack alot better and could run with him more effectively. As for the 400 dollar haircut, I'd get a 400 dollar haircut if I could afford it too, and considering his impressive record on poverty issues, I could care less about any haircuts. He's neutral to Clinton supporters for the most part I think, and to be honest, his endorsement today didn't bug me a bit. I like the guy, honest. His charm kind of offsets any endorsement negatives for me.

Kathleen Sebelius would be up there on the "neutrality" scale as well. She's a realitvely fresh face, although I think based off of her SOTU response, her charisma may need work. She's backed Barack 100%, so would compliment him well. I think only obvious backfire here is that she might been seen as Barack's "replacement" for Hillary, but if the public offer and denial happen like I suggested above, then that problem is taken care of. And besides, for some reason, I love women in power.

As for a complete "no-go", for me, it's Bill Richardson. It just looks bad. He's a terrible campaigner, he turns me off as a gay male because of his comments in 2006 to Imus and his comment about being gay as a "choice". In 2008, he just wasn't effective at communicating any type of message. I don't relate it to the "Judas" thing, but what bothered me more about the endorsement was him disclosing what Hillary said to him when she called him to inform her of said endorsement; have a little class, Bill. It's just a big turnoff to all Clinton supporters. I would back the ticket but I don't know how much it would help in other places. Maybe in the west, but I think he could be just as effective for Barack on the ground in NM, and Obama has regional strength there anyway.

Biden got thrown in here as well. I love the idea, actually. He's real fierce (i love it), and doesn't mince his words, which I think is one point that Obama can be somewhat criticized on. I like the idea of an "attack dog" veep as well.

But I want to hear your thoughts. Let's get it out there. Anyone you think I left out? Any unfair assessments?


Poll
Who is your Veep pick?
John Edwards
Wes Clark
Kathleen Sebelius
Ted Strickland
Ed Rendell
Jim Webb
Hillary Clinton
Bill Richardson
Joe Biden
Other

Votes: 36
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Tips... (2.00 / 17)

For a somewhat neutral article? I tried my best.

(PS-my vote was for Wes)


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:23:32 AM EST

Re: Tips... (2.00 / 1)

me too


Unable to recommend or rate
NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:55:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips... (2.00 / 1)

hey I would Mojo you but you know ....

but I commend you on your neutral diary

and I think that is the best way to support Hillary is to follow her lead  never give up on her and support the nominee to the fullest  


John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"
by wellinformed on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:48:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic di (2.00 / 1)

Whoever Obama picks will be allright with me. They got here by being shrewd and playing the system well. Their calculus will apply to this important selection.

Personally. I would like that person to be Hagel. Obama is a uniter. That is his core message. Obama is positioning himself as the post-partisan candidate, someone who can work with conservatives as well as liberals, Republicans as well as Democrats to unify the country for loftier goals.

I suggest the two-term Republican senator from Nebraska, Chuck Hagel. Like Webb, Hagel is a Vietnam veteran -- an infantry squad leader with two Purple Hearts -- who has been vocal in his criticism of the Iraq war and his disillusionment with the Bush administration. Hagel has long been admired by both sides for his integrity and independent thinking. A strong supporter of McCain's 2000 bid for the GOP nomination, he broke ranks with McCain over Iraq.

He shows Obama can think outside the box and reinforces his uniter credentials.

Obama/Hagel 2008.


Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:32:19 AM EST

Re: From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic di (2.00 / 5)

This isn't meant to be inflammatory, but since the Obama argument for voting against McCain if you're a pissed Hillary supporter has to do alot with Roe V. Wade being overturned (one that I agree with 100%), I can't in my right mind support this voting record:

   *  Voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions. (Oct 2007)
    * Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
    * Voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
    * Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
    * Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
    * Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
    * Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
    * Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
    * Voted YES on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
    * Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
    * Rated 100% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-life stance (190 members). (Dec 2006)

Yea, I know Barack's doing the appointing. But this guy makes me puke on social issues: more highlights:

   *  Voted YES on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
    * Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
    * Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
    * Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)
    * Voted NO on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)
    * Voted YES on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business. (Oct 1997)
    * Supports anti-flag desecration amendment. (Mar 2001)
    * Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
    * Rated 0% by the HRC, indicating an anti-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
    * Rated 11% by the NAACP, indicating an anti-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)

(I'm gay, so the HRC rating makes me feel even worse)

He's also a 100% from the Christian coalition. Look, he's nice as a Republican, but we bitch about DINOs alot, and I'm so sick of "unity" with Republicans. There are PLENTY of people who are much more liberal and could still bring us votes.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:41:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic di (2.00 / 1)

I do think Hagel should be in the Cabinet: Sec of Defense or Veteran Affairs.


by The Distillery on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:43:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic di (2.00 / 4)

Ugh, Hagel is wrong on every issue besides Iraq.  Sorry, we can do better.


by Skaje on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:56:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic di (2.00 / 5)

I voted Strickland.  Putting Ohio in the bag would pretty much lock the electoral vote down for Obama.  Strickland also compliments the ticket in important ways, appealing to socially conservative labor-oriented Democrats who have strayed from the party in the past.  He is 66 years old, so we wouldn't be running him for president 8 years now from, but that's not a dealbreaker.  In fact, due to the age difference between Obama and McCain, we risk seeing a lot of older voters shifting to McCain; Strickland could help with that.  He would also solidify Obama's standing in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa.

Yeah, he's socially moderate (rated A by NRA, some iffy votes regarding choice in the past), but as Vice President, that wouldn't be his concern, and as previously mentioned, he's not going to be running for president in eight years (74 years old).  As long as he's there keeping our message strong on the economic and foreign policy issues, his personal beliefs regarding abortion and gun control shouldn't become a problem.

Also, the fact that he endorsed Clinton is irrelevant.  We're all Democrats at the end of the day, as long as he didn't say anything truly awful about Obama during the campaign it shouldn't even matter.  In fact, picking a high-profile Clinton supporter to be his VP would help assure Clinton voters that Obama respects them and their concerns.

All in all, a pretty solid package I think.  Tim Kaine is my second-place choice, I would prefer that Jim Webb remain in the Senate.  Not too sure about the potential benefits of a Sebelius or Richardson VP.


by Skaje on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:19:57 AM EST

Re: From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic di (2.00 / 3)

I don't agree with your comment (see mine below), but just so you know, I'm going to start mojoing all your comments in hopes that you get your TU status back.  That's ridiculous.


by The Distillery on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:45:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic di (none / 0)

LOL that's very kind of you, but it won't fix the problem.  Technically I still have TU status, I can see hidden comments.  However I, like many others, have had my ability to rate comments (in any way, 0, 1, or 2) and recommend diaries taken away for being naughty.  This is an admin action that will hopefully be removed once the primary wars are over.


by Skaje on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic di (2.00 / 1)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with selecting a VP that the NRA highly respects. Obama pissed off rural voters? Get the gun folks on his side. Not only that, McCain has pissed those guys off in the past, they're not THAT crazy about him (even though his pro-gun record is superb).


"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Jack Handey
by vcalzone on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:56:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From a pro-Clinton perspective: A realistic di (2.00 / 2)

I mean, damn, Obama was a constitutional law professor, and said he interprets the second amendment to mean an individual right to bear arms, not a militia. Spread the word!


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:51:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I voted Richardson (none / 0)

But my favourite choice is Michael Bloomberg. He would take the independent vote by storm, and he would be a great complement to Obama because of his lack of executive experience.


by Fairy Tale on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:29:05 AM EST

Re: I voted Richardson (none / 0)

Bloomberg would be cool IMO

is it possible he can draw in some repubs who really don't like McCain ?


John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"
by wellinformed on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:50:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I voted Richardson (none / 0)

I want a Democrat.  Bloomberg's appeal to independents isn't enough for me to be willing to give the VP slot to an independent who used to be a Republican who used to be a Democrat.

Too risky.  I think we have plenty of excellent choices within our own party.  Wasn't that our problem this year, a wealth of good choices?


Atdleft's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:03:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How about Webb? (2.00 / 3)

I don't think there is a "easy" choice for VP.

Webb intrigues me because he would further Obama's populist post-partisan message (Webb was in the Reagan administration) while also subtlely filling in some of Obama's perceived weakness. Webb's military background and his appeal to the Scots-Irish electorate (notably found in Appalachia) could help, as long the team keeps the focus on their similarities.

You don't want a VP pick to highlight perceived weakness. Ideally, they should complement each other while championing the same message.


by Paranoid Humanoid on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:35:41 AM EST

I love Sebelius to death. (2.00 / 5)

I loved her SOTU response.  I guess I was the only one. :(  That was the first time I saw her, and she certainly made an impression on me.  If you look her up on You Tube, you can see her in other venues.  She's very tough, sassy, down-to-earth, down-home, on-message, and knowledgeable.

I have serious problems with Webb as a woman for his articles about women in the military.  He is the ONLY VP choice Obama could make that would give me pause in voting for him.

I don't like Strickland because I can't forgive him for nodding his head emphatically behind HRC with her "Shame on you, Barack Obama!" outburst.  (Yes, I'm clearly partisan.)  I have similar feelings about Rendell, although he has made much more conciliatory statements during and after the campaign in his state.

I don't have my own personal issues with Richardson, other than he's a horrible campaigner.  But you also need someone who can win the Presidency when he runs, and I just don't see him doing this.  His own campaign went nowhere despite vast name recognition and a stellar resume.

Wes Clark always kind of strikes me as a pushover, which is ironic considering his experience.  I'm sure he's one tough cookie in the situation room, but I've never seen this part of him at all in public.  He does have an even temperament, which is a plus.

I am just not a fan of Edwards.  I never was.  I didn't like him in 2004, and I don't like him now.  He has always struck me as opportunistic, and this year was no exception.

And HRC.  I would have been fine with HRC as VP until mid February.  That was when the campaign started turning ugly, and regardless of who you think started it, lines were drawn at that time that became impossible to bridge, hence my disdain for Strickland.

You forgot Tim Kaine, Governor of Virginia.  He is a solid campaigner, popular, well-versed on the issues, and he appeals to the groups that Obama does poorly with.  He's probably the best for Obama, but my heart belongs to Sebelius.


by The Distillery on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:39:06 AM EST

Re: I love Sebelius to death. (2.00 / 2)

Good points.
A lot of people diss Sebelius for her "Join us, President Bush" SOTU address, but ignore the work she's done for Kansas (right now, she's fighting tooth and nail against the KS repubs to keep 2 new coal fired power plants from being built in KS) and for Democrats.
BUT she just started her second term and I think we'd like to keep her in Kansas a little longer.
Jim Webb is too conservative for me, I like Wes Clark, love Joe Biden and Dodd. I think we can all agree that our VP needs to be strong in foreign policy and/or military experience.
But my first choice is Hillary.
by skohayes on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:13:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice Diary (2.00 / 5)

Thanks for shooting for the middle, its diaries like these (and hopefully some outreach from the 'other' side) that will go a long way to bringing us all back together.

Its weird, I always said if Clinton was the nominee I would still have loved to see Obama as VP.  I think that scenario would be awesome.  But as my prefered POTUS candidate is Obama I didnt want to entertain that thought until absolutely necessary.

That said, I agree that I dont see Hillary as VP.  Obviously not out of competence, I just dont see the fit.  And honestly, my main reason is Bill.  I believe it would be too 'weird' having Bill, an ex president, seen as in any way 'subjugated' to Obama (even if it only in appearance).  Plus, I think Hillary would be a better fit for the senate leader (I think Reid sucks).  Plus nothing wrong with having a good level of competition between the senate leader and the president.  Weve seen all too well what a compliant senate and house can lead to (because we dems aint perfect and can go overboard if we arent careful).

As for the other candidates - couldnt agree more on Richardson.  Just doesnt seem right.  And a republican, maybe in a cabinet position but not as VP.

The rest, Im sure theyre OK, but I believe Obama is going to pull someone completely out of left field.  Someone not on most peoples short lists.  I could even see him pulling someone not in politics.  I see some of the pratical reasons these other names are thrown out, but none are hitting home with me.  Then again, no one really is right now.

The only semi-cool one I liked (as an ex-Missouri boy) was Gephardt.  But thats more nostalgia than practical.  Either way, it will be interesting to see.


by pattonbt on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:50:02 AM EST

Joe Biden (2.00 / 5)

He needs two big things.  First, he needs an attack dog.  Obama just isn't good on the attack.  He just flopped around on stage at the SC debate when he and Hillary went at each other.  I think that Joe Biden is great on the attack:  Rudy thinks there are three things in a sentence:  a noun, a verb, and 9/11.  Second, he needs some national security creds.  He won't get that from a governor.

I don't think that reaching out to a Clinton supporter like Clark will appease the Clinton people.  He needs Hillary to persuade them to vote for him.  Picking Wes Clark or Ed Rendell won't do it, IMHO.


Atdleft's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:21:02 AM EST

Re: Joe Biden (2.00 / 3)

You know, I didn't even think of Biden. But yes, I like that idea as well, and I will edit the diary to reflect that. Biden would be a real solid pick.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:26:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Very nice diary... (2.00 / 1)

3 others to consider:

1. Bayh, but we still won't win Indiana.

2. Vilsak, Iowa is a battleground.

3. Dodd, could help with congressional relations, which, s Jimmy Carter demonstrated, are important.


by IowaMike on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:38:49 AM EST

Re: Very nice diary... (2.00 / 1)

As a Hoosier, I'd love to see Bayh on the ticket.  He has plenty of executive experience from his time as Governor, however, he doesn't have the foreign experience/national security credentials of a Wes Clark.


by zep93 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:44:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Very nice diary... (2.00 / 1)

We'd lose a senate seat with Dodd though.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:50:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama (1.00 / 1)

Obama would make a great VP for Hillary. BTW, no strong supporter of HRC would even be having this discussion so you can come out of the closet as an Obama supporter now.


by grlpatriot on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:10:57 AM EST

Re: Obama (2.00 / 2)

Democrats are the reality based people.  We know how to look at an issue from more than one angle...your fixation is at odds with traditional Democratic ideals.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:34:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama (2.00 / 2)

If you are talking about the diarist

I can testify is a die hard clinton supporter
trust me  


John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"
by wellinformed on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:53:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I adore Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 3)

But I don't have a problem with this diary.  There has been a big change in the tone of her campaign since IN & NC.  We need to follow her lead and be more conciliatory.  Obama has been more positive and many of his supporters here have been the same.  We are all looking forward and trying to come together.  

I, for one, am so sick of arguing so intensely with the Obama people here.  We're all Democrats.  We agree on so much.  I'm just tired of it.  I think that discussions like this are healthy, bringing us together.


Atdleft's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:58:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards (2.00 / 2)

In response to a direct question a while back, John Edwards has already said that he would not be interested in the VP slot.

I'm sure that if Obama asked him, he'd consider it, and maybe he'd even let himself get talked into it; but I don't think he should. For one, it's too much of a re-run of 2004; but, more importantly, it would involve the months-long grind of campaigning at a time when he probably wants to spend more time with Elizabeth. After all, their remaining time together is not infinite.

I believe him when he says he is not interested (he didn't use any of the typical politician weasel-words in his statement), and I don't think it's fair to him and Elizabeth to ask.

Now, later on, after the election: AG? Secretary of Labor? Much better, I think.


by Ray Radlein on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:36:47 AM EST

Gore (none / 0)

He's 2 for 2 as a VP candidate

Otherwise, Richardson. He's sure to turn the Hispanic vote around.

All this assuming Hillary doesn't want the job. I assume as a loyal Dem she would accept the position if offered.

As Senate Majority 'Leader' . . . well, to get much done from that position you need to be in tune with the Senate, and she is too liberal. Sad to say.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:38:06 AM EST

Back in January - before Iowa (none / 0)

I thought we would end up with a Clinton/Obama ticket. I was (and am) an Obama supporter - just didn't forsee what a brilliant campaign he would wage, and how Hillary could blow it so badly. I was fine with Clinton/Obama if he didn't win the nomination. Am I fine with Obama/Clinton? Sure! I just don't think she'll accept the VP slot. So who will be the best VP? I agree that a prominent HRC supporter would help heal the party. A Governor of a critical state (OH/PA) won by Clinton is my guess.


Often wrong; seldom in doubt.
by Goober Pea on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:46:12 PM EST

Very nice diary (none / 0)

To be honest I think Hillary would make a tremendous Senate Majority Leader, Reid doesn't seem to have a backbone a lot of the time, and I don't think there are many people who will argue that Hillary will capitulate to the republicans like Reid has (though to be fair with Obama and Hillary out campaigning, and Johnson being sick it was like the dems were a minority).  This role I think would suit her more than veep in my opinion.

I trust Obama to pick who he thinks will help him will the election and who he would work well with.  I agree with you that Richardson would be disappointing.  I would think that Rendell would be a bit disappointing too, he suffers from the same foot-in-mouth disease as Richardson (he made a kool-aid comment about youth).  

I think Gov. Kaine would be a very good pick.  He is popular in Virginia, he is a catholic (helping Obama with a group he faired poorly in), and from what Ive heard has a decent reputation among latinos.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:47:55 PM EST


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