Great Moments In Republican War Messaging

You may have already seen the grossly misleading and embarrassingly political smear Bush used against Democrats (and WH aides say Obama) from Israel:

"Some seem to believe we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along," Bush said at Israel's 60th anniversary celebration in Jerusalem.

"We have heard this foolish delusion before," Bush said in remarks to Israel's parliament, the Knesset. "As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is -- the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."

As Singer pointed out, McSame ramped up the charge, perhaps after realizing he had been looped out of a debate between the President and a Democrat running for the job he wants:

"I think [it] is an unacceptable position, and shows that Senator Obama does not have the knowledge, the experience, the background to make the kind of judgments that are necessary to preserve this nation's security."

White flags, surrender, naive, etc..

But let's contrast the responses from two of the surrogates - one Republican and one Democrat.

On the right, a yahoo talk radio host on Hardball in an enormously awkward segment:

On MSNBC's Hardball tonight, right-wing radio host Kevin James attempted to defend President Bush's comments comparing Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) to Nazi appeasers because he favors talking with our enemies. James compared Obama to Neville Chamberlain, about whom James could only cry: "He's an appeaser!"

Matthews pressed James at least 19 times over five minutes to simply explain what Chamberlain had done in 1938 and 1939 to make him an "appeaser." James could only shout his talking point over and over, prompting Matthews to threaten to end the interview:

  MATTHEWS: You don't know what you're talking about, Kevin. You don't know what you're talking about. Tell me what Chamberlain did wrong.

  JAMES: Neville Chamberlain was an appeaser, Chris. Neville Chamberlain was an appeaser, all right? [...]

  MATTHEWS: I've been sitting here five minutes asking you to say what the president was referring to in 1938 at Munich.

  JAMES: I don't know.

  MATTHEWS: You don't know, thank you.

   

(If you have a couple minutes, click through and watch the whole video - it's the best TV I've seen in weeks)

And on the left, Joe Biden:

"This is bullshit."

Bingo.

Republicans think they can breathe new life into the strategy of veiled accusations of Dems-as-traitors. But it didn't work in the '06 midterms, and it won't in '08.

It all sounds so ridiculous now. Biden's answer says it all.
 

Update [2008-5-15 20:5:18 by Josh Orton]: YouTube version of the Hardball clip below the fold. The puny conservative host Kevin James is actually a relatively good walking, breathing representation of the charge itself: desperate, dishonest, and ridiculous.



Display:


Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (2.00 / 1)

Dude, I'm literally watching it right now. I'm sweating it's so uncomfortable to watch. But Matthews' response is brilliant: "He's as bad as the White House press secretary that doesn't even know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was. We're talking with people with blank slates in terms of history here." And they lowered the volume on his mic. This really was great TV.


by Todd Beeton on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:03:04 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

It's really really awesome.


by Josh Orton on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:06:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

I know that we all beat up on Tweety now and again (justifiably), but every once and a while he is great. And, tonight when he just called that guy (Kevin James?) "pathetic," I wanted to give him an award or something. Great television.


by DPW on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:09:48 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

I also remember when he caught an Obama supporter playing surrogate unable to name a SINGLE legislative accomplishment.


by Falsehood on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:16:16 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

yeah... I also remember that he did not ask the Clinton surrogate the same question...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:17:58 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Yeah, but that didn't fit the narrative. Odds are the average person couldn't do it for either.


by Falsehood on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:15:35 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Watching Mark green trying not to laugh to hard in the background was hilarious.  

Unbelievable...

I'm happy and proud Obama had a quick response, but was smart enough NOT to be drawn into a debate with Bush on this.  

And yes Biden hands down had thebest response!


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:04:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's the video (2.00 / 2)


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:03:09 PM EST

Re: Here's the video (2.00 / 1)

hahaha that is golden comedy!!!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:11:00 PM EST
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Re: Here's the video (2.00 / 1)

Wow... when you're in a hole, quit digging is right!


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the video (none / 0)

Thats incredible.  I have no idea who this radio host is, but I can just imagine him spending an hour on the air today ripping into Obama and making all these ridiculous comparisons to Hitler and WWII, all the while not knowing any of the history beyond Hitler=Bad.


by KevinT on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:32:25 PM EST
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Re: Here's the video (none / 0)

This is a man who was hired for his radio gig based entirely on his strong jaw.


Yes, I'm aware there's a possible misogynist reading of the myth. Sorry.
by Endymion on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:22:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the video (none / 0)

And his shouting ability... you have to be able to yell to be a conservative talk show host.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:06:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (2.00 / 2)

Since Bush is so eager to bring up people appeasing Hitler, why is this off limits?

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep /25/usa.secondworldwar


by animated on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:08:14 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Well, it is kind of like pointing out that the Senator that he quoted today was, in fact, a Republican.  A prominent one too....

I think that's called "an inconvenient truth..."


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:16:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (1.00 / 1)

The Dem's are scared out of their wits about this. American Jewish voters are already polling 45% for McCain when a Republican normally gets no more than 10%. Obama's clear statements that he will negotiate with our enemies 'without condition' is a legitimate issue.
Bush's speech was no different than others he has given on the subject. He could have referred to Jimmy Carter doing brunch with Hamas in the last month or it could have meant Nancy(Peace through Damascus) Pelosi or all of the Euro wimps who hate Israel.
The Dem's response is about Florida and Pennsylvania and maybe even New Jersey come fall. Obama's 'no conditions' policy has already cost him Florida in this years election. We need a wide open debate on this and the Dem's don't want it because they know they will lose.
by minnehot1 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:20:27 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

jewish voters do not normally go 90% for democrats, try again.


by Xris on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:21:45 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Maybe not, but in 2006 my tribe went 87-12 for Democrats.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:30:13 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Agreed...  in 2002, nearly half of NY Jewish voters sad they would support Bush...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:31:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You don't know much about American Jews (none / 0)

What BS. Jews aren't stupid. Every election cycle some windbag declares that Jews will finally vote Republican. And then we don't. We Jews know who hides behind the GOP curtain - the Christian Right. And while the Christian Right may think they can ingratiate us with their creepy Christian Zionism we know that they are the true enemy of American Jewry. They want to stuff their Christian Fundamentalism down the throats of Jews and force Jewish children to say the Lord's Prayer in schools. They believe that we Jews are second-class "guests" in this "Christian nation." John McCain can hide behind Joe Lieberman all he wants, but Jews know which party is sympathetic with American Jewish values and which one hates us.


by elrod on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:58:36 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

BS  minnehot1.

The Republicans are going to get so beat this November they won't know what the hell happened to them.


by RussTC3 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:14:34 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Bring it on. A full throated debate between Obama and McCain.  Obama FOR 'no conditions' negotiations with our enemies and McCain FOR 'peace through strength'.

Let the people decide at the ballot box.  Can you accept the verdict?


by minnehot1 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:46:25 AM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

The Dems are NOT scared out of their wits -- they see a golden opportunity and that's why they've been so vocal. Once again, the Dems are showing how Bush and McCain are on the same side of the argument, Obama gets to score points by taking on Mr. 28% directly, the Democrats close ranks around Obama, etc.

Eight years of Bush have made us think in the same counter-productive, black-and-white terms as he does: namely, Iran is evil and you can only fight and bomb them. This is one of Obama's main foreign policy differences and a great opportunity for him to point out the benefits of talking with "the enemy", just as so many presidents have successfully done throughout history.  


by sitesatlas on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:30:42 PM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

What's next... a Pro-McCain diary?  

Yeah your right... we shouldn't actually try and talk with the enemy.  Because 8 years of doing the OPPOSITE has worked SO WELL.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:08:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

A descendant corporation of Thyssen Steel has been given the contract to elevator the Freedom Towers.  No conspiracy, just happy coincidence.


Yes, I'm aware there's a possible misogynist reading of the myth. Sorry.
by Endymion on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Too bad they didn't use this in 2000 or 2004


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:07:04 AM EST
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Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Sooooooooooo uncomfortable.


by Falsehood on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:15:33 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

That was awesome.  It's hilarious to see Republicans get called out for not knowing jack about what they're spouting off on.  Appeasement is NOT talking to your enemies.  It's giving stuff away.


by Skaje on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:17:31 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

THAT WAS AWESOME!!!!  


by reggie23 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:17:54 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

My dad says Chamberlain was known as "snivelling" Chamberlain after all his peace talk and his statements "I have achieved peace in our lifetime" Germany invaded France.


by dogman on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:19:24 PM EST

PWNED (none / 0)

I saw that live. Funniest thing I have seen in a loooong time.

At one point, the other talking head told him:

"When you're in a hole you got to stop digging" or something

like that. It was hillarious.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:23:12 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Hi fucking larious.  Best part: when he gets so flustered he just starts repeating the talking points, like it's all that's written on his notecard or whatever:  ENERGIZED!  LEGITIMIZED!  ENER . . . LEGIT . . . IMIZED!

pure gold.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:27:22 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

You'd think that people in the party of moral values would see what is so wrong with what Bush said.

The James thing reminds me of the "Better Know a District" segment on Colbert when he asked that Repub to name the Ten Commandments, and the guy couldn't do it.

Lol.

Repubs are big talkers, don't know s**t, only greed and screwing people, literally and figuratively.


by Juno on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:34:53 PM EST

Tweety Bird (none / 0)

You reminded me why I love you tonight!


by Bargeron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:37:03 PM EST

credit where credit is due and the healing process (none / 0)

First of all it was an epic clip. Even Tweety occasionally has his day.

Second of all, note that what we're celebrating here is a defense of Barack Obama against an attack by the Republicans, and not a single comment seeking to make anti-Obama hay out of this.

We're going to heal here - like it of not - we're going to come together and we're going to continue to be helped in this process by the man who, more than anyone else, is responsible for bringing the democratic party back from pathetic irrelevance

... the man who has single-handed destroyed the neocon movement

... the man who has inspired people to understand and become involved in preserving the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

... a unique orator who has inspired and energized more democrats than anyone since JFK and MLK

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you, the President of the United States: George W. Bush


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:57:11 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

Totally hilarious.  Matthews framed it very well when he pointed out that there's a difference between talking with someone and giving them half of Czechoslovakia.

Two things struck me.  First, Mark Green is a total idiot, even if he wasn't the stupidest person in this clip.  Matthews is making the guy look like a complete fool, and Green is all like "ooh ooh, call on me! I know the answer!"  The man desperately needs a personality transplant.

The other thing was how the wingnut snuck in the smear about Robert Malley, Obama's advisor who supposedly was discovered to be clandestinely working with Hamas.  We all know the real story about Malley, right?  Personally, I think it was a big error in judgment for the Obama campaign to sever ties with him, because it's a clear case of the GOP overplaying its hand, and if you embolden the McCain campaign they'll just be back tomorrow with a demand that you fire someone else.  I do not know a single person, all the way out to the wingnuttiest end of the spectrum, who would not agree that the GOP is lying if I explained to them what McCain really does.  I would love to be fighting over that issue rather than let wingnut idiots like Kevin James get in their cheap shots.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:00:22 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

That interview was hilarious.  The guy would not shut up, he just kept saying the same damn thing in this high-pitch yap.  It was rather annoying and he wouldn't let the other guest talk without interruption.  He really is a proper representation of his party and today couldn't have been a better day for anyone not affliated with the Republican party.

Now if only they'd actually arrest Rove.


This administration is not sinking. This administration is soaring! If anything, they are rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg!
by venavena on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:56:21 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

You might just get your wish to see Rove arrested:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/15/ 202943/503/778/515868
by sitesatlas on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

I want a high-rez picture of Matthew's face as he shakes his head and looks at the desk while that fool keeps yapping on. Best WTF moment in a while.

McCain is toast in November.


by upstate girl on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:00:11 PM EST

This is it, this is the look (2.00 / 1)

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

(This is not meant to be image spam, its just a great picture)


by upstate girl on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:11:41 PM EST
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Re: This is it, this is the look (none / 0)

hahaha that is awesome!!!!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

You know, I remember back in '03 when I was complaining to all my friends that the Democrats were engaging in appeasement to totalitarian fascists.  Of course, I wasn't talking about rhetorical fascists, I was talking about the real ones who've taken over our country!


Yes, I'm aware there's a possible misogynist reading of the myth. Sorry.
by Endymion on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:32:34 PM EST

Thanks, I missed the beginning on air... (none / 0)

TV really is going to the edge, and beyond.

Pat Buchanan as a regular.  All of Fox news.  Guests like this wingnut shouting like a maniac.

CNN.  That's all I can say.

I won't be too kind to the folks I'm in favor of either, it's as stratified and bizarre as one can imagine.  It seems that we are coming to the end of valid television news coverage.

There is a long thought-exercise on where this is all leading over the next years that I want to dive into when this political stuff (oh, and the day job) give me room...

-chris


"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for. Sail out to sea and do new things." Admiral Grace Hopper, computer pioneer
by chrisblask on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:40:19 PM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

wow.. Kevin James is a tool.


by devoted1 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:45:36 AM EST

Re: Great Moments In Republican War Messaging (none / 0)

I hope SNL is doing a parody of the Matthews-James showdown, Darrell Hammond does a good Matthews impression and we can get Will Forte to play the puny Kevin James- who has the same name as the actor from KING OF QUEENS with George Constanza's Father.


by nkpolitics on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:51:35 AM EST


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