Thank you NARAL

In the last few days I have been growing more concerned about the us vs them mentality that appeared to be developing in Hillary's camp, especially in terms of its potential impact on feminism. I wrote here and in my blog < http://msa4.wordpress.com/ > the following:

"It is time that feminists who have supported Clinton for the right reasons step up to the plate and criticize her for unacceptable remarks and practices. The women's movement has been deeply divided over the Clinton candidacy. Yet what started out as a legitimate disagreement about the merits of the candidates and their agendas has turned into a test of one's feminist credentials. But the test is perverse. It is not a test of feminist principles and values. It has become a test of loyalty to Clinton, in spite of the fact that she is undermining basic feminist values..... ........"

I can't tell you how pleased I am that NARAL has stepped up to the plate, even if its position doesn't entail any direct criticism of Hillary's remarks and practices.  



Display:


Re: Thank you NARAL (1.00 / 5)

That's NARAL PAC. NARAL itself has distanced itself from those remarks. Any feminisnt who supports Obama over Clinton should hang up her fightin' boots. She has done caved in to the enemy.  Obama has run an overtly sexist campaign, votes present on choice issues and then lies about his reasons, and wanted to vote for Roberts.

Clinton is the choice for a real feminist - she's got a long resume of progressive accomplishments on behalf of under privileged families and women. Obama cannot say that.


by Little Otter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:34:23 AM EST

Re: Thank you NARAL (1.00 / 1)

Got that wrong - it's some of the state NARALs that are distancing themselves from that endorsment. I've done a lot of volunteer work for NARAL since the mid-eighties. I called them up this evening and told them to take me off their list. It was anti-feminist choice, and they'll get another dime or minute from me.


by Little Otter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:37:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (2.00 / 3)

AUMF sure did an awful lot for women in Iraq, if by an awful lot you mean ruined their lives FOREVER.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:40:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (2.00 / 1)

LOL - You guys hid my response to AUMF post. Wow.

What I said that apparently offended the Obama supporters greatly is that had Bush abided by the terms of the AUMF, then the inspections would have been finished and we wouldn't have gone to war. The fact that he didn't abide by the terms is on Bush - not on Clinton. Clinton voted to give Hans Blix what he felt was necessary to finish the inspections - our only hope of stopping Bush from invading. Remember, we were losing the senate in three weeks - Bush was getting his authorization either with the UN demands or without it.

And that's what Obama supporters are afraid that others will read. How sad. How predictable.


by Little Otter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:20:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (2.00 / 2)

Wrong.  What you said that offended Obama supporters and should offend all Democrats is that he has run a misogynistic campaign and his supporters are misogynistic.  When you blatantly slander fellow Democrats, I would think you would expect to be HR'ed.


by The Distillery on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:49:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So now if we don't (2.00 / 4)

hate NARAL for supporting the presumptive nominee that has a 100 percent rating we have to give up our Feminist title?

What sort of purity test is this?  I will put my Feminist credentials up against any arsehat that wants to play a game of "top this".  I am the freakin' embodiment of feminist ideals but because I think NARAL did the right thing (just like I believe that Emily's List, who I financially support) did the right thing I don't qualify any more.

I have a big ole ragin' F-bomb for you.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:43:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So now if we don't (1.00 / 9)

If you support some joker with virtually no legislative experience, who engages in overt misogynist rhetoric against a woman with a long record of progressive accomplishment - then no, you aren't a feminist.

And your F-bomb isn't surprising or impressive. You're hanging out with people who think calling Clinton a Fucking whore is acceptable and who shut down Digby's comments by calling her a cunt. What should we expect from pigs but grunts?


by Little Otter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:45:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am not hanging out with anyone (2.00 / 4)

And if you think that most of that shit is Obama supporters you are smokin some tall weed.  Some of the evilest, most divisive shit coming from both sides are really GOoPers who think it is funny to stir the shit.

And you completely deserve that F-bomb...you are this far from being a troll.  I will not be engaging you again because I actually think you are an idiot who is easily taken in.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:50:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am not hanging out with anyone (1.00 / 8)

Dont' flatter yourself - most of it's coming from Obama supporters. Speaking of idiots easily taken in, I'm not supporting the person who hasnt' done anything in his life. I'm not supporting the guy who graduates from Harvard School and proceeds to have the legal career of someone who graduates from unaccredited night school. I'm not the one supporting the guy who couldn't get one bill passed in six years. I'm supporting the guy who only has a legislative record because he was handed the work of others.

Go ahead - tell me three accomplishments of Obama's between Obama leaving law school and Obama announcing his run for the US senate. Bet you can't do it.

Why would i care if you tell me to go fuck myself? I mean, that's what I expect from you guys. You say most of the vile stuff isn't coming from Obama supporters, but you were instantly vile. That's what Obama supporters do - the call Clinton supporters names. It's the emotional level the entire campaign functions at - that's why he's attracting so many children to his ranks.


by Little Otter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:59:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am not hanging out with anyone (2.00 / 2)

He beat Edwards
He beat Clinton
He pissed you off

Good enough for me.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:04:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Gift Ban Act, health insurance expansion, (2.00 / 1)

death penalty moratorium, videotaping confessions, stopping racial profiling. Oh, wait, that's five.


by bobdoleisevil on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:15:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gift Ban Act, health insurance expansion, (1.33 / 3)

He supplied one amendment to the gift ban act - that's it. Now how many of those bills didn't originate with another legislator and were handed to Obama by Emil Jones? And how many of them pass after he's decided to run for the US senate?

How is that a man can not have more than one or two accomplishments over that ten year period while being in the Illinois senate and working at a civil right's law firm? How does that happen?

When asked about his legislative record, Obama rattles off several bills he sponsored as an Illinois lawmaker.

He expanded children's health insurance; made the state Earned Income Tax Credit refundable for low-income families; required public bodies to tape closed-door meetings to make government more transparent; and required police to videotape interrogations of homicide suspects.

And the list goes on.

It's a lengthy record filled with core liberal issues. But what's interesting, and almost never discussed, is that he built his entire legislative record in Illinois in a single year.

Republicans controlled the Illinois General Assembly for six years of Obama's seven-year tenure. Each session, Obama backed legislation that went nowhere; bill after bill died in committee. During those six years, Obama, too, would have had difficulty naming any legislative achievements.

Then, in 2002, dissatisfaction with President Bush and Republicans on the national and local levels led to a Democratic sweep of nearly every lever of Illinois state government. For the first time in 26 years, Illinois Democrats controlled the governor's office as well as both legislative chambers.

The white, race-baiting, hard-right Republican Illinois Senate Majority Leader James "Pate" Philip was replaced by Emil Jones Jr., a gravel-voiced, dark-skinned African-American known for chain-smoking cigarettes on the Senate floor.

Jones had served in the Illinois Legislature for three decades. He represented a district on the Chicago South Side not far from Obama's. He became Obama's kingmaker.

Several months before Obama announced his U.S. Senate bid, Jones called his old friend Cliff Kelley, a former Chicago alderman who now hosts the city's most popular black call-in radio program.

I called Kelley last week and he recollected the private conversation as follows:

"He said, 'Cliff, I'm gonna make me a U.S. Senator.'"

"Oh, you are? Who might that be?"

"Barack Obama."

Jones appointed Obama sponsor of virtually every high-profile piece of legislation, angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills.

"I took all the beatings and insults and endured all the racist comments over the years from nasty Republican committee chairmen," State Senator Rickey Hendon, the original sponsor of landmark racial profiling and videotaped confession legislation yanked away by Jones and given to Obama, complained to me at the time. "Barack didn't have to endure any of it, yet, in the end, he got all the credit.

"I don't consider it bill jacking," Hendon told me. "But no one wants to carry the ball 99 yards all the way to the one-yard line, and then give it to the halfback who gets all the credit and the stats in the record book."

During his seventh and final year in the state Senate, Obama's stats soared. He sponsored a whopping 26 bills passed into law -- including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked as inexperienced.

How singularly unimpressive.


by Little Otter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:43:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gift Ban Act, health insurance expansion, (2.00 / 1)

A block quote without a link?  How singularly unimpressive.


by The Distillery on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:54:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gift Ban Act, health insurance expansion, (2.00 / 1)

I'm happy to provide the link.

http://www.houstonpress.com/2008-02-28/n ews/barack-obama-screamed-at-me/print


by Little Otter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:01:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gift Ban Act, health insurance expansion, (none / 0)

You need to cool off. Your posts indicate that you are far too intelligent to continually get entangled in these flame wars. If you can't respond in a kind manner to an obviously strong Democratic supporter in a positive way, even if you disagree, you need to discharge on people who are your enemies. Okay?
John McCain is a liar
by Jeter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:43:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you realize.... (2.00 / 4)

you continually insult millions of women who have voted for Obama with your ridiculous rantings?

And let's see proof of your "overt misogynist rhetoric" charge, that is nothing more than complete bs.  

More and more it is clear that a segment of Hillary supporters are just as much anti-Obama as they are posi-Hillary, if not MORE so given the fact that Hillary has said she will support Obama in the GE and asked her supporters to do the same.


by Seeking Cincinnatus on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:08:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Digby has comments on her blog (none / 0)

they aren't shut down now...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:36:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Digby has comments on her blog (2.00 / 1)

No one said they were shut down now. Go to her site and search the word "cunt". That's what Obama supporters have contributed to our national dialogue in the name of unity - calling the first viable female contender for the presidential nomination a "cunt" and a "fucking whore". Thanks, guys.


by Little Otter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:45:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Digby has comments on her blog (2.00 / 3)

Would you say its fair then to hold you and other Clinton supporters responsible for blog comments calling Obama any number of racial slurs? That kind of blame goes both ways.


by upstate girl on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:49:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Digby has comments on her blog (2.00 / 1)

No widely-read, non-partisan (as far as the primary goes) blog has had to shut down comments because of Clinton supporters. Not one. That is a fact. Taylor Marsh and Digby (Digby hasn't endorsed by my impression is that she voted for Obama) have both had to shut comments down though because of the hate comments from Obama supporters. Ben Smith either had to shut down commetns because of Obama supporters or threatened to one day - they were that out of line on his site as well. Then there is Paul Krugman and the attacks he has endured on his site.

Randi Rhodes is a nationally syndicated talk show host with a huge following in the progressive community. She isn't some anonymous poster some where. She was an established celebrity, performing at an event organized by Obama supporters, for Obama supporters and advertised on obama's site. It's as offensive as it gets and your candidate doesn't have the minimum level of 20th century couth to distance himself from it.


by Little Otter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:58:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Digby has comments on her blog (none / 0)

You still didn't answer my question.


by upstate girl on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:11:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Digby has comments on her blog (none / 0)

The constantly repeated lies are realy annoying.
After how many times does it land with you, that it was a fundraiser for a local radio station. This has been debunked so many times it's becoming silly.
The event was advertised on my.barackobama.com, but that does not make it an Obama event.
by hebi on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:59:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Digby has comments on her blog (none / 0)

Senator Obama is trying hard. He's not stupid. Fight the media, They start wars and pretend they had nothing to do with it. That thing you are talking about is a Roger Ailes pile of vomit, to be sure. You are right. Forgiving does not mean forgetting. Oppressed people have learned this through generations of abuse. Speak your mind. Discover who your true friends and supporters are and work with them to defeat McCain. There will always be very radical angry partisans on both sides of the political spectrun. As both Clinton and Obama have clearly indicated, the time to run moderate center is now, then we'll mess up years of republican abuse when we get in power. It's ben a long, brutal ugly eight years.
John McCain is a liar
by Jeter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:11:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

her site is (none / 0)

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

right because she allows comments, maybe she didn't for a while, but I've been reading her for about 2 weeks and she allows comments...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:45:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So now if we don't (none / 0)

Little Otter. You have been a pleasure to read and bond with for many months now. Please tine it down. I know you feel justified and right about what you are saying, and you have every right to say it, but your statements are too severe. We'll work it out. We really will. We're all bruised and beaten up but both of our candidates have forced issues into the public mindset and they will not be forgotten. We just ned to ensure that McCain does not win. Anti-Obama hatred is just as bad as anti-Hillary hatred. You've got a case. maybe we need to cool off before coming back to it. Hillary may or may not win, but right now I'm really impressed and proud of her. Iwant to feel the same way about all Democrats right now. I've suffered years of racial and other forms of oppression that Obama nor Clinton will solve during this primary, but McCain will truly make it worse than anything we have experienced so far. Peace, my friend, your are a righteous and smart person who should not be silenced - just more peaceful. you will have your say. Okay you wonderfully passionate Democrat?
John McCain is a liar
by Jeter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:03:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have to agree (1.00 / 2)

Hillary has been what we call a "liberal feminist" (as opposed to a radical feminist) from day one.  Barack Obama has undercut the lifetime body of this woman's work and caricatured her as a "racist" for the sake of siphoning votes in what has now become the most racially polarized Democratic electorate in history.  He's an opportunistic parasite, worse than most politicians because he actually has the audacity to pretend he's "above" politics as usual.  

Although I would like the war to end and detest the idea of punishing a generation with right wing federal judges, I will be closely following the predicted House and Senate composition to see if McCain's presidency may be a tolerable allowance.  If not, then I'll vote for Obama, but it probably won't matter because even the Democrats in my state (Pennsylvania) prefer McCain to Obama.  

Hillary > John > Barack

Welcome to PA.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:52:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (none / 0)

I'm not much of a "diary policeman" and disagree with some of what you say, but nothing you write is worthy of all these Troll and Hide ratings.  

You have a strong opinion, you state it without attacking people individually, and people who take issue with it should respond with dialogue and counter-arguments, not drive-by troll ratings.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:00:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (2.00 / 6)

Any feminist that supports Obama:

a) has the right not to be accused of being anti-feminist because they have made their own decision on who they support for the nomination, based on not only specifically "female" issues, but on all issues.

b) has the right to have his or her opinion respected due to the fact that women do not have to follow lockstep with any ideology - we do have the ability to think and reason for ourselves. Independent women make up their own minds, they do not have their minds made up for them by threats of being called a traitor.

c) has the right to realize winning one pyrrhic battle (a female nominee at the cost of overriding the legitimate winner of the nomination process) does not excuse losing the war (allowing another Republican presidency).


by upstate girl on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:24:59 AM EST

Re: Thank you NARAL (2.00 / 3)

I support Clinton but I agree with this statement.  While I think Clinton is more of a feminist than Obama, key to feminism is the principle that all women occupy their full autonomy of choice.  Women exercising that discretion, free from others impugning their femininity, is fully congruent with feminism.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:56:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (2.00 / 3)

(Imagine I mojo'd this comment.)

Insinuating that any woman cannot think for herself is the heart of sexism, and I'm astounded that some self-proclaimed feminists are so eager to use the same mindset used against us for so long against other women simply because they don't agree with them.


by upstate girl on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:02:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (2.00 / 3)

Feminists have every right to make the case for Hillary (and my strongly feminist views have influenced my decision to support her), but it's admittedly over the line to insinuate that all women should "shut up and get in line."  

For some reason it reminds me of a line from Eight Easy Steps by Alanis Morissette... "[I'll teach you] How to hate women when you're supposed to be a feminist."


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:10:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (none / 0)

You have been an incredible treat this entire primary season,.Keep it up. We need you, badly.
John McCain is a liar
by Jeter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:04:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (none / 0)

Thank you.  I'll be here!  As long as there are elections and what not.  This is my favorte blog now after 4 years at "that other place."  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:56:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Very well said (none / 0)


Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison
by mattjfogarty on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:45:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (none / 0)


Well, NARAL national has done some dumb stuff in recent years.  They backed Linc Chaffee and iirc Joe Lieberman.  There is a sense that the governing board isn't quite up to snuff.

I couldn't care who they endorse.  Basically, when they endorse they give the anti-choice side a clear signal who to vote against.  


by killjoy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:39:35 AM EST

What is it about bloggers (none / 0)

who post here to pimp their private blogs with half-assed diaries that are nothing but a link drop?

I think if anyone cared to read what you had to say you wouldn't have enough time spamming your blog on diaries around the net. You'd be busy engaging your readers on your blog.


by LatinoVoter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:08:09 AM EST

Generally (none / 0)

It's a bad idea for any issues based organization to make an endorsement at this time.  

Why?

Because people forget the good and remember the bad.  Those who support Obama will be pleased with the choice but years and even months from now, it will be forgotten.

By contrast, those who support Clinton will remember this group as a political opponent.  

This was the logic that J & E Edwards put forth regarding their decision not to make an endorsement, but rather to commit themselves fully to fighting poverty.  Rather than alienating half of their audience, they decided it would be best to sit out on the sidelines and not be partisan for the sake of unified support behind their causes.  

I respected that.  

It's hard to say why exactly John flip-flopped on that one today, but in the long term, his endorsement will be remembered more by Clinton supporters at the expense of his ability to personally appeal to them for his causes.  


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:05:24 AM EST

Re: Thank you NARAL (none / 0)

Agreed.  Wrote them a letter and made (another) donation to them tonight to thank them for doing the right thing and taking a principled stand.


Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison
by mattjfogarty on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:44:03 AM EST

Re: Thank you NARAL (none / 0)

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I disagree with it, but thanks. Can you see how stating you made a donation is a bit antagonistic though? Some of the most ardent and vocal Obama supporters have made really supportive statements of Hillary Clinton today. Join them? We all really need each other. Even the mathematical geniuses and the no frills or emotions dont compute kind of guys and gals might need to just let some unproductive anger go.
John McCain is a liar
by Jeter on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:54:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you NARAL (none / 0)

I am glad that we can disagree and still discuss the issues. I respect your opinion and do not mean to upset anyone.

As for being antagonistic, I certainly do not intend it to be.  To be honest, I think it does not make sense that any pro-Obama, or in this case pro-Naral, message is considered antagonistic to Hillary.  It really is not all about Hillary.

In fact, in a diary that is clearly in favor of the endorsement that Naral made, this is very specifically the most appropriate time and place to make a comment showing that I favor that decision and will put my money where my mouth is.

I actually think that your criticism of my support for Naral endorsing Obama in a diary that is specifically about folks celebrating that decision is the comment that is arguably most out of place.

I felt it was very important, especially in light of all the incredibly nasty comments and diaries here and the nasty comments on Naral's website, to show that there are many who supported their decision too.

What was antagonistic, I feel, was the overwhelming show of petulance by many on the MyDD users towards Naral making what they felt was the right decision at the right time.

And to be frank, most of the country has moved past the HRC candidacy.  It really is past time, many of us feel, for all Democrats to be working towards defeating McCain. I do understand that it will take time for many who supported HRC to get to that point, and that is fine.  I have been very disappointed by almost every election in my life and I know that feeling well. It is not a comfortable place to be.

But I don't think it is fair for people to ask the country to wait while HRC supporters mourn, any more than it would be fair for me to ask HRC supporters to just forget about their feelings and move on.


Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison
by mattjfogarty on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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