MyDD :: democratic disconnect

democratic disconnect

by rocky, Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:51:46 PM EST

There appears to be a strange disconnect between the democratic voters and the leadership of the party. Clearly more REGISTERED democrats have voted for Hillary as their standard bearer while more and more of the leaders are opting for Obama.
More than ever the rank and file want to continue the process- the leadership wants to shut it down.
One day after Edward's core constituency rejects Obama he endorses Obama.
Voters of WV reject the guidance of their long time senator Rockefeller by trouncing his choice as did the voters of Massachusetts. David wilhelm strongly endorses Obama and his state of Ohio rejects his choice.
Rank and file overwhelmingly demands a unity ticket - the entire leadership is dead set against it!
How is the rank and file going to react to this ignoring of their will by the leadership? I guess if Obama wins it would be OK otherwise watch out!

Tags: super delegates, voters, leaders, primaries (all tags)

Permalink :: 46 Comments :: Post a Comment

Obama leads in pledged delegates (2.00 / 2)

Given that pledged delegates are allocated according to the "will of the people" through democratic elections according to proportional representation, and given that Obama leads the pledged delegate count, I don't see any disconnect when the Democratic leadership confirms the people's choice of Obama as the nominee.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:58:06 PM EST

Re: Obama leads in pledged delegates (2.00 / 1)

Let's talk Supers; they are NOT the will of the people. The supers are going to decide this election.

by soyousay on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama leads in pledged delegates (2.00 / 1)

READ THIS SLOWLY...

The SD's vote for whoever they please, they don't answer to you or anyone else.

SHEESH!!!!

I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson

by obamaovermccain on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:13:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re-examining the Supers (2.00 / 1)

Don't forget, that was the logic Clinton supporters were using when the Supers were not heading to camp Obama.

Now that they are (I think five or six today), guess it is time, once again, to redefine how she will win the nomination.

Capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my uncle Jack off a horse..." and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse..."

by igottheblues on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:26:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, but think this through (none / 0)

Yes, supers will decide this election. But as a thought exercise, imagine if there were NO supers, only pledged delegates. In that case, the will of the people would be captured by an Obama victory, as he has a basically insurmountable lead in pledged delegates and will get a majority of pledged delegates fairly soon.

Therefore, when the supers do decide this primary, and when they choose Obama, they will, in fact, be exercising the will of the people.

So it will all work out right in the end.

Going forward, I agree that something needs to be done about this system. But thankfully for this primary, it looks like the substantively correct outcome is going to happen.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:13:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama leads in pledged delegates (2.00 / 1)

And if they decide it in favor of the candidate leading in delegates then the will of the people has been served.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:00:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One word comes to mind (2.00 / 1)

...caucus.

Looking at primary results where a caucus was similarly held, I don't believe that the 'will of the people' was carried out proportionately.

by Coldblue on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:11:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Caucuses are democratic (none / 0)

Look, there are a thousand different ways to run an election, and a thousand variations of even a straightforward primary (closed/open, early voting, same day registration, etc.). Voters and candidates know the rules beforehand, and they can participate and campaign accordingly.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:17:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Caucuses might be (none / 0)

the lowest excuse for democracy, given the limited time access and the associated qualifiers.

Do you not agree that the WA and NE primary results were quite different from the 'official' caucus results?

by Coldblue on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:32:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nebraska (none / 0)

The Nebraska informal primary results were gotten a good amount after the caucus happened, and the results still managed to back up the winner of the caucus.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:40:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not proportional n/t (none / 0)

by Coldblue on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yea, and also (none / 0)

(1) wasn't held at the same point in time and (2) was an informal preference vote regardless.

And yet, still backed up the winner of the caucus.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Old people tend to vote overwhelmingly (none / 0)

disproportionately in non-high-profile primaries (which Nebraska's was, because it didn't count)

by bobdoleisevil on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:47:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One word comes to mind (none / 0)

Will of the people arguments fail when one candidate is asking that MI be seated giving zero votes and delegates to another candidate. However, caucuses do require more commitment than many voters are willing or able to provide.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (2.00 / 2)

The Democratic party repeats the same mistake over and over again. Once again, the Democratic party will ignore the Reagan Democrats.

by soyousay on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:00:42 PM EST

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

If Reagan Democrats for Republican at what point do we simply call them Republicans?

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:02:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (2.00 / 2)

How many times does Edwards need to be on the losing side.

Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime

by gunner on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:04:38 PM EST

Re: democratic disconnect (2.00 / 1)

Amen. I don't know how this announcement and it's timing has affected others, but I am absolutely steamed. Such total disrespect for the voters of WV, and all Hillary supporters, to not allow a simple 24 hours to enjoy a victory. I'm done.

by not buying it on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:23:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you can't take the heat (none / 0)

GTFO out of the kitchen. A wise man said that and a wise woman quoted it. Another wise man once said "if you can't take it, don't put on the uniform." Too bad Clinton supporters aren't as tough as the Clintons are.

by JJE on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:06:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

Why can't you respect the election process, clearly Obama is winning the most votes that is how democracy works. Obama has won the most states, delegates and popular vote. Why do you hate America?

Stop being sore losers and accept that your candidate is losing and move on with your life.

I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson

by obamaovermccain on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:11:31 PM EST

You're being sarcastic (2.00 / 1)

when you say "Why do you hate America?", right?

by Coldblue on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:14:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (2.00 / 2)

Bullshit. The system has been gamed and everyone knows it. For him to get the same number of delegates for red Idaho as she gets for blue NJ should make it obvious that the caucus process is not representative government. When all those red states go republican in the fall, everyone will be sooooooo surprised that those 20,000 people weren't enough to turn Idaho blue...shocked I say...simply shocked.

by not buying it on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:26:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

Oh my where was your concern when Bill won this same way? Where was Hillary's concern before the election even started? Now the fact that she couldn't win the way Bill did we are suppose to feel sorry for her? She has been in this game for 30 years and she doesn't have the capacity to game the system in her favor? You complain that Idaho went for Obama what do you propose that red states do not participate in democratic elections? We all know certain states won't go to democrats like certain states won't go to republicans. The point is everyone knew how the rules and game is played, but to cry foul when your candidate was out hustled.... quite pathetic.

If Bill could do it, why couldn't Hillary?

I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson

by obamaovermccain on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

Gamed? You mean the rules have been followed by both and the more experience politicians have been beaten. That's not gaming the system. That's winning.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

If Obama loses in a year that is so favorable to Democrats, one has to wonder what the fallout will be for much of the party's leadership. Let's hope we don't find out.

by therealdeal on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:13:15 PM EST

Don't worry (none / 0)

Obama will win in November. It's going to be a banner year for the Democratic Party.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

why do you want to stifle the voices of independents and republicans?

John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.

by terra on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:13:24 PM EST

Re: democratic disconnect (2.00 / 1)

The party should choose its standard bearer. the opposing team should not get to pick who to run against. that is not the point of the diary. I am surprised to see such a lop sided endorsements of Obama by the leadership when the rank and file is expressing a much closer view of the race. Why the enormous difference between the views of the two groups?

by rocky on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

the party does choose it's standard bearer in the system of open/closed caucuses and primaries the states decided on.

John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.

by terra on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The mere fact that the race is so close... (none / 0)

...should say something about the quality of BOTH democrats in this race. The idea that Clinton has the "will of the people" behind her when just as many people have chosen her opponant is laughable.

Obama is not ahead because he's a subvert. he's ahead because he's winning more elections. He's ahead because he has more delegates. But even HE doesn't have the "will of the people" because PRACTICALLY just as many people voted for Clinton.

It's like Bush when he won in '04 by a razor thin margin coming out in the press the next day saying the elction proved he had vast "political capital" it was ridiculous then and it's no less ridiculous now.

Clinton and Obama are equally qualified and equally electable because they BOTH have the will of the people.

Why is that so freaking hard to comprehend?

by DawnG on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:21:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (2.00 / 1)

interesting diary.
dont worry though, the voters always have the final say (albeit maybe not in this primary).

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." Plato

by canadian gal on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:24:44 PM EST

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

Yes we will. I predict a McCain presidency, and down-ticket democratic wins to truly turn over control of the house and senate. Obama will not win in November. I'm already as sick of his snear as Chimpy's...

by not buying it on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

Comedy. The GOP is calling.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:05:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

You forgot. The rank and file want their votes to count, the DNC doesn't.

by Scotch on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:37:28 PM EST

their votes are counted (none / 0)

unless you mean the fraudulent push to turn the FL/MI straw polls into elections.

by JJE on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

All the states that followed the rules aren't having a problem at all.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:05:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

Don't engage stuff like this, guys. Let them calm down and listen to McCain talk about Iraq and the Supreme Court and they'll make the right decision.

John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country

by minnesotaryan on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:11:24 PM EST

When you think about it, (none / 0)

this is actually a diary in favor of the Obama nomination, given Obama's lead in pledged delegates.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:12:01 PM EST

Re: When you think about it, (none / 0)

the diary is agnostic about who the nominee is. author is trying to find out why the leadership of the party and the rank and file are in such dissonance.

by rocky on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When you think about it, (none / 0)

My point was, there is not that much dissonance, given that the "rank and file" and the leadership apparently agree that Obama should be the nominee.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:25:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When you think about it, (2.00 / 1)

When you think about it ?!
When you think about it ?!

That's your excuse ? THINKING HURTS ....

by v2r1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:47:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

I have the paperwork ready to leave the party. It hurts - lifelong democrat - but I can no longer stand it.

I am leaving the party and will support McCain IF BHO is the nominee.

I can't stand our party.

by nikkid on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:15:28 PM EST

That's a mistake (none / 0)

I hope by the time November rolls around, you will have reconsidered.

by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 11:25:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Look, if you don't want to vote for Obama... (none / 0)

..then you certainly have that right. no one's forcing you.

But it's one thing to NOT vote for president, and another thing to go against what you CLAIM to be lifelong democratic principles and vote for Dubbya the sequal.

You're ashamed of being a democrat? Hell I'm ashamed you're a democrat if that's the flimsy argument you're going to make to betray the very ideals that the party if founded on.

Fine, go ahead! Board that sinking ship of a party the GOP has made of themselves. But know they're sinking for a REASON and don't come whining to us.

by DawnG on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:17:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

registered democrats... (none / 0)

...is what what is important now? Is that the metric we're measuring by now? As opposed to what? non-registered democrats?

It's rather presumptuous to say edwards supporters overwhelmingly support clinton. I know just as many edwards supporters who support Obama.

And I say this as an edwards supporter who never really supported anyone else.

by DawnG on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:13:22 AM EST

Re: democratic disconnect (none / 0)

before Iowa held their caucus more than 160 of the party leaders (superdelegates) had endorsed clinton..

are they anymore disconnected now than they were in december?

by soros on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:12:25 AM EST

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