MyDD :: So much for no Coattails

So much for no Coattails

by southernman, Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:23:55 PM EST

Hillary Clinton's win in West VA is a good win for her. Though I wonder now if the Clinton supporters will stop the bullshit argument that Obama victories in red states don't matter, as Hillary supporters are certainly offended at the notion that West VA is meaningless. I'm glad they don't like it so much, so hopefully that garbage won't be spouted any more.

Now on to another Hillary argument made in recent days that has been clearly disproven. That is the argument that Obama would be a detriment to down ticket races, that Obama's ties to Jeremiah Wright will kill us in November and that Hillary is the stronger candidate for down ticket candidates.

I understand people making this argument after the IL victory. After all, it was in Obama's home state, where he is very popular. Even if he wasn't popular anywhere else in the country, he is there and that could've made a differnence, especially against a flawed nominee like Oberweis.

But now we transfer our attention to the Deep South. This area is not fertile territory for Democrats in any way. Yet now, in two obviously Republican districts, their tactics failed in every way. No argument worked...none. Tax and spend liberal? Didn't work. Kill your babies? Didn't work. And their attempts to link our candidates with that psycho reverend Jeremiah Wright failed miserably.

For Hillary Clinton, this completely shuts down the argument that Obama would hurt us in down ticket races. It's been tried 3 times now, and 3 times it's failed. 3 new Democrats!!

What does Hillary Clinton have now? What argument can she possibly make? Her anger at suggestions that her win last night meant nothing is completely hypocritical...as she and her surrogates have routinely dismissed Obama wins in the same fashion. She wins blue collar votes and white women? That's great, but just like the African American vote, it's not enough.

What argument does she make now that would convince the Supers to deny the nomination to the person who won the most votes, most states, most delegates and has raised the most money? Her West Virginia win was impressive, but why does that merit her nomination over Obama's? Why do her victories in red states (in a Democratic primary) mean more than Obama's victories in red states? After all, it was one of her campaign members who dismissed red state delegates as "second class." Why, all of a sudden is this important?

She was positively desperate to scare the Super's into nominating her, fearing that an Obama candidacy would not only doom us in November for the WH, but would cripple us in down ticket races. The races last night, the one in LA and in IL have proven quite the opposite.

Our success in these races only proves that Obama will be a great nominee for us in November. Kudos to Hillary for a solid WV win, but she has no argument for the supers to give her the nomination instead of Obama. Her latest one, that Obama would screw us downticket, has been solidly debunked.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Jeremiah Wright, Childers, MS-01, US House, 2008 (all tags)

Permalink :: 32 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: So much for no Coattails (2.00 / 1)

Don't count on the clinton supporters to support us till after the primaries, right now they are in a heated battle.

I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson

by obamaovermccain on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:39:43 PM EST

Re: So much for no Coattails (2.00 / 1)

I'm not counting on it at all. But the evidence is plain as day, even if they don't want to see it. It's over.

by southernman on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:40:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

bunker mentality (2.00 / 1)

... let 'em yell at me.

give 'em all hugs for the good fight when it's over.

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It doesn't have to be a red state (2.00 / 1)

It will be for Obama but...

Bill Clinton carried WV in 1992 and in 1996.

So your first sentence is not entirely accurate. Many of the red states which Obama won have never been and will never be in play.

Obama's the one who claimed that "there are no red states or blue states" and that he was going to redraw the electoral map. His dismissal of WV certainly doesn't jive with that lovely, idealistic notion? Oh well, I never believed it anyway.

I'm glad you feel so confident about your candidate. Run with it.

"Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been." Hillary Rodham Clinton - June 7, 2008

by twinmom on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:40:54 PM EST

Re: It doesn't have to be a red state (none / 0)

When did he dismiss WV?

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:42:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe he made a public statement I missed? (none / 0)

Did he say anything? Acknowledge her win in any way? I heard he sent a text message?

I'm not a crazy Clinton supporter... I see the writing on the wall. But I do think that the media and Obama campaign are making a MAJOR mis-step in trying to end this right now. The media is worse, but Obama is also sending some major signals that the rest of the states don't matter an that he is in GE-mode. Don't try to say he isn't, I get his emails as well as hers.

If Obama and the media should have learned one lesson by now it is that Hillary Clinton's supporters fight and push-back the hardest when she gets counted out and dismissed. We've seen in again and again... a big, resounding "Screw You!" to the pundits. That's what happened last night.

The best way for Obama to play this out is to let this process play itself out. Not allowing that to happen is what is going to split the party.

Frankly, I was shocked by last night's results. I never expected it to be that extreme. In my opinion, Obama has his head in the sand bigtime if he doesn't see the danger of ignoring the message those voters are sending loud-and-clear. Same with the DNC.

"Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been." Hillary Rodham Clinton - June 7, 2008

by twinmom on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he made a public statement I missed? (none / 0)

I don't know. Neither of us are privy to that information. However, I'm wondering where he dismissed WV in his 50 state strategy as you said he did. You don't appear to have evidence of that. Is that correct?

WV does not equal "The Voters". Right now more of "The Voters" have voted for him and it will stay that way.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We are privy to a candidate's public statements (2.00 / 1)

My point is that he didn't acknowledge her win in any public way. He ignored it.

It is obvious that the message his campaign is projecting and the tactic he is using is to ignore Clinton and focus on McCain. He's in GE mode.

If I lived in any of the remaining states, that would leave a bad taste in my mouth. If I lived in WV I'd be turned off by the fact that he didn't officially concede the race to Hillary and congratulate her in public. He did it for every single other race so the difference is striking... and I'd argue calculated.

I simply think it is the wrong calculation that he is making. I think it send exactly the wrong message at the moment.

"Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been." Hillary Rodham Clinton - June 7, 2008

by twinmom on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:18:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We are privy to a candidate's public statement (none / 0)

But that has nothing to do with the 50 state strategy.

As far as his pivot to the GE it also has nothing to do with the 50 state strategy.

I'm sorry that you'd be personally offended that he's running his GE campaign but the point is to beat McSame.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:21:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We are privy to a candidate's public statement (none / 0)

Umm.. yes, he did. Not only did he call her personally to congratulate her, he conceeded the race publicly in his speech the night before.

He has been very gracious throughout the process.. always acknowledging her victories...

He also shared some pleasantries with her at the capitol...

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:40:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is a wrong calculation (none / 0)

I still support the man, but it is wrong, and I know it when I see it.

Of course, I don't truly think he wants Clinton out until after Puerto Rico -- he wants her marginalized until then, which is fair. If he's going to win, let clinton keep issue oriented (yes, they've both thrown each other into the pigpen. we'll deal)

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As for Clinton (none / 0)

was has NEVER congratulated Obama on his wins in her concession speeches.

Every time there is one, I watch for it and I have NEVER seen it.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:13:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What are you talking about? (none / 0)

Indiana:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/05/06 clintons-primary-night-speech-in-indian a

"I want to commend Senator Obama and his supporters on their win in North Carolina. We are, in many ways, on the same journey. It's a journey begun long before we were born. It is a journey by men and women who have been on a mission to perfect our union, who marched and protested, who risked everything they had to build an America that embraces us all. And tonight, once again, I need your help to continue our journey."

Feb 5th:
"I also -- I also -- I also want to congratulate Senator Obama for his victories tonight, and I look forward to continuing our campaign and our debate about how to leave this country better off for the next generation, because that is the work of my life."

"Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been." Hillary Rodham Clinton - June 7, 2008

by twinmom on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

didn't hear it (none / 0)

after Wisconsin or Mississippi or Wyoming or Virginia and Maryland, so you'll excuse Obama if he doesn't say congrats just one time.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:27:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Al Gore (none / 0)

couldn't win West Virginia.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:10:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Al Gore (none / 0)

couldn't win the Presidency.

Not sure if your arguing for or against the importance of WV?

"Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been." Hillary Rodham Clinton - June 7, 2008

by twinmom on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:15:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Didn't Al Gore win the presidency? (none / 0)

600 more votes in Florida and he would've been President WITHOUT West Virginia.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:21:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So much for no Coattails (2.00 / 3)

And the harder the Republicans try to link these Democrats in special elections to Obama, the bigger the margins. I mean, 54-46 in MS-01????? Absolutely unbelievable.

This is perhaps the strongest argument for superdelegates -- whose principal goal is strengthening the Democratic Party top to bottom -- to back Obama as nominee.

by N in Seattle on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:41:48 PM EST

Re: So much for no Coattails (2.00 / 1)

It's also an argument that the primary battle hasn't significantly damaged the party and may actually be strengthening Dems' hand in purple and red parts (of the country).

by the mollusk on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:49:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If I recall the correct response is (none / 0)

if it wasn't for Obama, Childers would have won by 12 pts. He is clearly a drag on the ticket (see Cazayoux, LA).

by jimotto on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:44:03 PM EST

Re: If I recall the correct response is (2.00 / 1)

Ah I see! An 8 pt win in a 10pt GOP district is weak.

And the crazy arguments begin!!

by southernman on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:47:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If I recall the correct response is (none / 0)

Does kryptonite make superman stronger in your world?

Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome

by kasjogren on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:49:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So much for no Coattails (2.00 / 1)

the candidate in MS-01, Childers had to hold press conferences distancing himself from Obama. He denied that Obama had endorsed him or that his campaign was in contact with Obama. This is a 25% black district but Childers still had to distance himself from Obama to win.

by gomer on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:04:04 PM EST

Re: So much for no Coattails (none / 0)

Turns out he won. Which means Obama didn't hurt him. Which is what Clinton was claiming.

by southernman on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:05:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So much for no Coattails (none / 0)

So? The GOP tied him hard to Obama... it didn't work. In fact, it backfired.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:41:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I"ve never argued (none / 0)

That Obama would kill us downticket. I don't think anyone, except maybe Gravel/Kucinich would kill us downticket. That said, none of these races are a measure of Obama's alleged coatttails. They are, at best, a measure of how badly the GOP brand has been damaged, nothing more.

by Mayor McCheese on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:49:27 PM EST

B/c when they tagged the Democrats... (none / 0)

as clones of Barack Obama and Rev. Wright and still lost by more than in the primary it doesn't demosntrate Obama's coattails. I'm sorry that logic does not work.

John McCain wants you to be poor!

by nklein on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:59:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: B/c when they tagged the Democrats... (none / 0)

Coattails, if the exist all all, occur when the candidate at the top of the ticket helps candidates at the bottom. These special elections didn't occur in such as situation. Special electiosn tend to have lower turnout than a general election and the party that holds the seat tends to fair worse than the challenging party. To call this a test of Obama's alleged coattails is what is illogical.

by Mayor McCheese on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:23:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Except turnout (2.00 / 1)

was at general election levels;

106,000 voters.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:28:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except turnout (none / 0)

More than 140 thousand people voted in 06, an off year election, which tends to have lower turnour that in a presidential year. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/r esults/states/MS/

by Mayor McCheese on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:36:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So turnout was about 34,000 votes (2.00 / 1)

short of the 2006 turnout which was a record for midterms...wow, that even proves my point more.

Mississippi 1 had the highest turnout of the three special elections the Democrats picked up this year and was won by the widest margin

and was the most Republican.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:39:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I"ve never argued (none / 0)

Clinton herself has made that argument...that Obama with his ties to Wright and others, will hurt us in downticket races. The results so far negate that argument.

by southernman on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.