Why can't progressives talk about race?

Progressives have long been at the forefront of movements on behalf of racial equality.  Yet there are some who say that this is a topic off-limits to discourse among Democrats.

How can that possibly be?

Lyndon Johnson told the truth after the passage of the Civil Rights Act.  Johnson said that the south would be lost to the Democrats and, indeed, Nixon's southern strategy of 1968 played on racial resentments.  So did Reagan's campaigns, with former Democrats becoming Republicans and Republican voters.  

Even before that, Truman paid a price for desegregating the armed forces and for his support of anti-lynching bill with the 1948 defection of Strom Thurmond, who ran as a Dixecrat and won four deep south states.

Progressives have said We Shall Overcome.  We fought for equal rights based on race, on gender, on sexual preference.

So why can't we talk about the reality of race today?  Why can't we admit that there are lots of voters who aren't supporting the front-runner because they don't want to vote for a black man?

I mean, these voters admit it.

One in four Clinton voters in WV said that race mattered for their votes.  They were willing to say this to perfect strangers in exit polls.  Why can't we talk about it?

Admitting it does not mean that all Clinton voters are racist. No, of course it does not.  The majority of Clinton supporters are not driven by racial motives.  And most certainly, the Clintons don't have a racist bone in their bodies.

But why can't we be honest?  Look at what voters were willing to say -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051203014. html?hpid=topnews

One Pittsburgh union organizer told her he would not vote for Obama because he is black, and a white voter, she said, offered this frank reason for not backing Obama: "White people look out for white people, and black people look out for black people."

In a letter to the editor published in a local paper, Tunkhannock Borough Mayor Norm Ball explained his support of Hillary Clinton this way: "Barack Hussein Obama and all of his talk will do nothing for our country. There is so much that people don't know about his upbringing in the Muslim world. His stepfather was a radical Muslim and the ranting of his minister against the white America, you can't convince me that some of that didn't rub off on him.

Karen Seifert, a volunteer from New York, was outside of the largest polling location in Lackawanna County, Pa., on primary day when she was pressed by a Clinton volunteer to explain her backing of Obama. "I trust him," Seifert replied. According to Seifert, the woman pointed to Obama's face on Seifert's T-shirt and said: "He's a half-breed and he's a Muslim. How can you trust that?"

We have to talk about this without fear and with the clear statement that, again, of course the overwhelming majority of Clinton supporters are not racist. And certainly neither are the Clintons.

But if we're not willing to be honest and open about this topic, we can never face it.  

And this year, assuming that a black man is our nominee -- and I know some of you don't think this will happen -- we will need to craft a strategy that will be able to deal with this. Maybe it will be finding a way to get those voters comfortable with Obama. Maybe it will be boosting turnout among other voters. But if he is the nominee, we have to do something.



Display:


Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

good diary, but i suspect that you are going to get flamed because when people on the other side bring up racial voting patterns on the other side they get called racists.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:33:42 PM EST

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (2.00 / 2)

Thanks, canadian girl.  This is my call for some calm, reasoned discourse.  Let's hope it's possible.  And if not now, perhaps in a month or so.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:35:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (2.00 / 2)

The difference in that conversation is that African-Americans will wholeheartedly support a white candidate. In fact, Clinton was polling well ahead with the African-American vote for some time. It's not like Obama lost the support of these other voters. They'd never vote for him in the first place. Even though they're Democrats.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

Well, there are plenty of white voters and white working class voters who have voted for Obama.  Look at the very white states he won as well as some other states.  But I think we need a strategy that takes race in account, without necessarily talking about race.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:48:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

Oh certainly. He has an Appalachian problem not a white working class voter problem. When that's understood I think the path is more easily determined. Turnout in PA & OH will be key. Boots on the ground to counteract the Appalachian areas will be necessary and active  as well as aggressive voter registration drives in his strong areas.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:54:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

The first step is getting past this notion that it's some kind of regional issue.  I don't know whether you mean the word "Appalachian" as code for something else, but either way, it's factually inaccurate.

Here's Barack Obama, speaking to CNN's Roland Martin: "We have won the white, blue collar vote in a whole bunch of states ... and if we had a demographic problem in Pennsylvania, it was that it's an older state than a lot of states, and it is true that Sen. Clinton has some strong support among voters over 60."

Not in a "whole bunch of states."

Atlantic Media's Ron Brownstein notes to me in an e-mail that, according to the exit polls, Obama has won the white non college voting bloc (e.g., white blue collar voters) in Wisconsin -- 52% -- and lost them everywhere else, even in Illinois, where they narrowly preferred Clinton (50% to 46%).

Writes Ron: "The only other state where he's reached even 40% of the vote among white non college voters is Virginia, according to the exit polls. In Ohio, he won only 27% of non college white voters; in PA, as of this morning, the number was just 30% (although the exit could be revised slightly)."


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:10:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

Not every state was exit-polled, first of all.

And in any case, yes, this is a challenge. So what is to be done if he is the nominee?  If.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:23:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

The first step has to be separating out racism from the other problems at issue.  If someone refuses to vote for a black candidate on principle, we should probably just forget about them.  But Obama has a different problem in failing to connect with this subset of voters, and it's a classic Democratic problem that white candidates have too.  In terms of connecting with the white working class, there have been a lot more John Kerrys than Bill Clintons in the recent history of this party.  But we're never going to address Obama's "John Kerry problem" if we persist in arguing that it necessarily has something to do with the candidate's race.

I call out the excuse-making not because I want to score points on an Internet message board, but because I believe the first step in addressing the problem has to be recognizing that it exists.  And the more posts I see which resort to false arguments like "it's just an Appalachian problem," or which engage in outright denial, the more I despair that we'll ever come to terms with the problem.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:52:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

Appalachian is a region. He does poorly in the region and does fine outside that region.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:20:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

He has won white voters without college degrees in ONE STATE.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:18:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's the elephant in the room... (2.00 / 1)

...but if we can't deal with it directly, we'll deal with it indirectly by marching forth with Obama as our nominee. A lot of people will have to come to terms with their prejudices between now and November. We can't control the conclusions they reach, but we can keep pushing our nominee toward the White House.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:39:29 PM EST

Re: It's the elephant in the room... (2.00 / 1)

There was a very interesting piece drawing from social science research on race and politics I read today:
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?i d=76d4881e-d014-4dd6-b732-8adef23f68f4

And the same author worked from similar research to argue that Obama can get white women to vote for him, that it's white men that are most moved by racial appeals http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?i d=8871d274-8b04-4d9d-9da4-6e20cc1768d1


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:45:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sociologically (none / 0)

We always have to deal with tribalism and fear of the "other" no matter who or what that other represents.  

I know it sounds silly, but I think that the show "24" did a great favor to the country when they credibly and seriously depicted a black man as the president.  There have been other depictions of a female president, but I don't think they have occurred in a dramatic setting that transmits quite the same gravity as 24 (which is unfortunate, because I believe that would have helped Hillary even more.

I say it sounds silly, but I don't think that it really is silly.  Culture comes at us full bore through our television sets and consciously or unconsciously we become more open to the realities they depict.  Once we become emotionally involved, even on a vicarious level with the gay couple, the  Iraqi castaway, the black president, the mixed race couple, we gain a measure of empathy that might not have previously existed.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:53:13 PM EST

Re: Sociologically (none / 0)

...and here I thought it was the Chris Rock movie that we were to thank.

(though I agree wholeheartedly)


by matchles on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:16:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (1.00 / 1)

I think all the people who gleefully pilloried Geraldine Ferraro pretty much sacrificed their right to say "hey, let's have a reasonable discussion about race."

As for the 3 or 4 Obama supporters who didn't participate in that particular hatefest, if someone will introduce me to them, I'm sure we could have a very productive conversation.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:01:30 PM EST

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

Lots of things got said by both sides.

I guess you're not ready to talk. Well, as I said, this may need to wait a month or so.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

Yeah, the guy who wrote a diary called "Barack Obama and the White Vote" four months ago isn't ready to talk about race just yet.  In the interests of reasoned discussion, I'll spare you a list of places where you can stick that condescending comment.

As I see it, a "dialogue about race" tends to boil down to reciting the liberal orthodoxy about race, and nothing more.  In the context of this primary, it means that every time Hillary has a big win, it's just coincidentally time to talk about the insidious effects of race.  There's racism everywhere, but the states that had the good judgment to vote for Barack Obama somehow got absolved.  Racism is apparently only a significant problem in those icky Appalachian states.

The problem with this excuse-making process is that it conflates racism, which we probably cannot do anything about, with Obama's failure to connect with voters who are less-educated or less-well off, which ought to be fixable, at least in theory.  But first we have to recognize what the problem is.  To me, the iconic image of the last month is Obama bellowing, "I'm not out of touch! I know exactly what's going on!" as if saying it is enough to persuade voters that it's true.  I think he's a gifted politician and he could do it if he tried.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think I was still supporting (none / 0)

Edwards then...or sulking over his losing.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:08:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

Like you, Steve M, I'm still feeling hit for being white.  Never thought I'd say that; it wasn't right and it wasn't politically correct.  For me, now, I need to work past the spectacle of Jesse Jackson Jr.'s "tears-Katrina" remark the day after NH.  I considered that baiting at the time, and I still do. It offended me that honest, decent Democrats like the Clintons could have been smeared by a number of major players in the AA community as racists during that February time. It made me wonder a lot about what I always thought in terms of white/black relationships at any level. There is a lot more to it.  I'm not a neophyte--especially in politics.  But, it is the baiting dimension--which, from my perspective, I believe was perfected by Axelrod et al--that pushed me to a level of resentment that surprised myself. At some point, perhaps in a few years, this will open up in a very beneficial way.  Right now, I don't know.


by christinep on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

Well, I hear your emotion and respect that. But I'm a white woman and I don't hear a racial message there in those remarks.  I just don't.  Furthermore, Obama never said Clinton was a racist. It never never was said by him or by anyone in his campaign.  

In any case, again, I respect your feelings and think that this needs to be aired and that we need to figure out how to work together.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:25:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

There's a certain subset of white voters who are very, very sensitized to bogus accusations of racism and other types of racial politics.  Having grown up in a racially polarized community myself, I'm probably part of that subset.  In reality, playing the race card is probably no worse than any other type of political ploy, yet it's undeniable that that sort of thing really bugs me while other stuff I just sorta shrug off.

I think part of the frustration is that the media has completely closed its eyes to the fact that these tactics are going on, which means it's not part of the "official" narrative of this campaign.  For those who see it with their own two eyes, it's somewhat difficult to understand why no one is willing to acknowledge it, and I really do understand your frustration.  Frankly, you couldn't be much more obvious than to say "Hillary didn't cry over Katrina" before the South Carolina primary - but if a tree falls in the forest and no media are around to report on it, does it make a sound?  Good question.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:45:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Race matters to this Hillary voter (none / 0)

I once heard a young boy say he couldn't be president because that's what white people do.

I began this primary season thinking it was really important we elect a person of color so that young children can look up and dream that they, too can be president.

Obama was my candidate. But then.

But then I learned he pressed the wrong button 6 times in the Illinois legislature. I learned at the Harvard Law Review he took few stands, and tried to be all things to all sides. He was the first Harvard Law Review Editor to not publish a single paper, so the next year the Review established a rule requiring each Editor do so. I learned he hadn't done his homework on a lot of issues, in fact on most of them. I listened to why he didn't want health insurance mandates in his health care plan and his answer was they are a good idea, but it was too hard to get them passed in congress. (No, we can't?) I learned the Nuclear Industry lobbyists were able to visit his office and water down his bill to the point that Obama a DEMOCRAT said oversight reporting should be VOLUNTARY. I heard him say Social Security is "in crisis" which set off alarm bells.

And I read about people who'd worked with or known Hillary for years and years and vouched for her character. I learned people who knew both Clintons actually liked her better in person. I saw she was so so solid in every debate performance, in every townhall she answered questions off-the-cuff and she was simply dazzling. I leanred New Yorkers who were initially skeptical were now simply crazy about her, she had delivered for them so well.

And I saw her in that little white dress and mary jane shoes in that 1950 photo and realized that girls, too do not think they can be president because "that's what boys do." In fact nobody even asks little girls if they want to be president someday. And a woman like Hillary would not come along again in my lifetime.


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:42:23 PM EST

I agree that both women and (none / 0)

African Americans have been denied the pinnacle of power, but where I do not agree is your last sentence.  Hillary has blazed a path that I expect women to follow in the coming election cycles.  We will not be denied the presidency forever or even for too long...as half of the population, we will persevere and will eventually win.

I thought we had an amazingly strong slate of candidates this year.  I could have happily voted for any of them (except maybe Gravel after seeing some of his creeptastic videos).


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:47:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A woman sure. But Hillary is special. (none / 0)

She will be one of the best presidents since FDR.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:00:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

I think racism built this country...its only fitting that racism destroy it..ie nominating McCain who will only hammer the last nail in our national coffin..


"Let them eat cake"
by NCDEM29 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:40:25 PM EST

Re: Why can't progressives talk about race? (none / 0)

Yes, as Americans we should all hang our heads in shame over the quotes and rampant willful ignorance.

We are the laughing stock of the world community when it comes to our voters.

Lowest turnouts, lowest information, working class and poor voting AGAINST their own self interests, etc.

I mean for God's sake we voted in Bush!   It's one thing to have a war mongering tyrant as your president, a whole other thing when he is so ridiculously stupid.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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