WV Primary thread

by Jerome Armstrong, Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:44:26 PM EST

The CNN exit polling for West Virginia, and the results are now coming in. Obama's ahead in Randolph county, with 3% reporting, so I might be wrong about his not winning a single county.

Update [2008-5-13 21:51:26 by Jerome Armstrong]: It's 64-29 with 35% reporting. Obama has declined to give a speech this evening following the WV results. Clinton is ahead in every single WV county reporting. Obama may not even break 30 percent, despite being practically anointed with the nomination?!?! Look, this is a partisan blog. Nearly everyone will come around to supporting the nominee here, but if Obama doesn't recognize the serious problem this presents in the world offline, and his supporters as well, I am speechless (which may not be a bad thing considering).

Update [2008-5-13 22:55:26 by Jerome Armstrong]: It's 66-27, with 65% reporting. Clinton has gained over 90,000 votes in the popular vote total thus far tonight. In Mason County, Clinton leads by a 72 - 19 margin.

Update [2008-5-13 23:44:26 by Todd Beeton]:Clinton is now up 41% over Obama and has exceeded a net of 120,000 votes. Pretty incredible margin.




Tags: 2008 election (all tags)

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It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

with Hillary winning 70% to Obama's 30% but in the end the Hillary would have only won 19 delegates to Obama's 9.


by puma on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:31:01 PM EST

Re: It's going to be a blow out (1.50 / 6)

Obama has declined to give a speech this evening following the WV results

This is pretty much in character. Just ask the members of Illinois NOW in his home state if he'd stand up and give a speech on the reproductive rights of women:

During Senator Obama's 2004 senate campaign, the Illinois NOW PAC did not recommend the endorsement of Obama for U.S. Senate because he refused to stand up for a woman's right to choose and repeatedly voted `present' on important legislation.

As a State Senator, Barack Obama voted `present' on seven abortion bills, including a ban on 'partial birth abortion,' two parental notification laws and three 'born alive' bills.  In each case, the right vote was clear, but Senator Obama chose political cover over standing and fighting for his convictions.

"When we needed someone to take a stand, Senator Obama took a pass," said Grabenhofer. "He wasn't there for us then and we don't expect him to be now."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:56:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 2)

Weird that he has 100% ratings then...


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:59:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

His lack of leadership is the issue.

To be clear, voting "present" on those bills was a strategy that IL NOW did not support. At that time, we made it clear to the legislators that we disagreed with the strategy. We wanted legislators to take a stand against the harmful anti-choice bills being brought to the floor of the Illinois State Senate.

Voting "present" does not demonstrate leadership and does not send the clarion signal that one is unwavering in their support of a woman's right to choose. IL NOW knew that those bills were unacceptable to women. Except for these present votes, Senator Obama's record on choice has been excellent, but he has not taken leadership on the issue at the same level that Hillary has.

Ms. Brett asserts that the strategy to vote "present" was devised to give political cover to legislators in conservative districts. State Senator Barack Obama did not represent a conservative district and he could have voted "no" with little negative consequence in his district.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:07:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 2)

Weird the Planned Parenthood IL was the lobbying group for NOW IL and worked with him on the strategy. Would have been a pretty obvious strategy if only the at-risk legislators voted present. And again, weird that he has 100% ratings.

Oh. I'm from IL so your BS won't work on me.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:10:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 4)

Your BS excuses for Obama don't work for women. The Illinois National Organization for Women has endorsed Sen. Clinton because she has the strongest record on women's reproductive health.

Senator Clinton has a long history of support for women's empowerment, and her public record is a testimony to her leadership on issues important to women in the U.S. and around the globe. She has eloquently articulated the need for full economic, political and social equality for women in every institution of society, taking action throughout her career -- as a lawyer, community leader, First Lady, Senator and candidate for the presidency -- to advance the civil and human rights of women and girls.

illinoisnow.org


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:20:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

Heresjohnny's BS excuses, or Planned Parenthood's BS excuses?

Believe it or not, KnowVox, the crowd here at MyDD is smart enough to realize that telling someone they're full of "BS excuses" isn't the same as actually refuting the points they presented. Call them namby pamby all you want, you haven't won the argument; talk about Clinton's strength on the issue all you want (which no one denies), that doesn't state a thing about Obama.

You're getting awfully close to troll land with these "debate" tactics...


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:24:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

If you've got a beef with Illinois NOW, state it. They've made a compelling argument about why Senator Obama is a coward when it comes to standing up for the reproductive rights of women. It's his home state, after all. Candidates who don't support that funadmental right come awfully close to not being progressive democrats with those tactics.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:32:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Nobody has a beef with Illinois NOW.

You have a beef with Barack Obama.  It's not on the issues, as this argument makes clear.  Who knows what it's on, but the point is he has a 100% rating from both them and Illinois Planned Parenthood.

The only person who doesn't support the fundamental rights of women are the people who flirt with McCain.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

Obama brought these credibility problems on himself.

Illinois NOW said it best:

"When we needed someone to take a stand, Senator Obama took a pass, He wasn't there for us then and we don't expect him to be now."

Illinoisnow.org


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:45:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Why do you hate Planned Parenthood so much?


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (1.25 / 12)

Why do you adore your candidate so much that you keep making excuses for him?

Do you honestly think it's an act of integrity to vote "present" on an issue? If so, then you have no more integrity than your candidate.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:57:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Here's a TR for the personal attack.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

This is not a personal attack. It's a question, and you've just answered it by your bogus TR.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:13:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

You're really not doing your candidate any favors.


by Jordache on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:28:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 2)

And your candidate's "present" votes aren't doing women any favors. He lacks leadership and integrity, as the Illinois NOW clearly points out. He can't be counted on.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:58:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

KnowVox: "And another thing, have you stopped beating your wife?!?"

Everyone else: "Odd that you haven't convinced the SD's with your Socratic wit."


by Brannon on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:25:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

You keep changning the subject. Did I say anything about IL NOW? No. I said something about Planned Parenthood. Now tell me, since when does citing PP mean opposition to NOW? You are the worst spinner I have ever seen.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:45:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Did I say anything about PP? This thread is about Obama's cowardly vote of "present" on numerous abortion measures. The National Organization for Women in his home state of Illinois refused to support his cowardice and called him on it. Obama was M.I.A. when it comes to the reproductive rights of women.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:36:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

Except ILPP did the lobbying for ILNOW and ILNOW didn't have a problem with it back then.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:47:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not true (none / 0)

To be clear, voting "present" on those bills was a strategy that IL NOW did not support. At that time, we made it clear to the legislators that we disagreed with the strategy. We wanted legislators to take a stand against the harmful anti-choice bills being brought to the floor of the Illinois State Senate.

Voting "present" does not demonstrate leadership and does not send the clarion signal that one is unwavering in their support of a woman's right to choose. IL NOW knew that those bills were unacceptable to women.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:30:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not true (none / 0)

Right right. Too bad that ILPP was the lobbying group not ILNOW so ILNOW is full of shite.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:19:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not true (none / 0)

I think it's clear who's FOS, and it ain't Illinois NOW.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:30:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

You're trying to use Obama's lack of a West Virginia primary speech to attack him on abortion? Boy, that's a stretch.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

He ducked the speech and he ducked the vote. I don't want a President who's not even "present."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:05:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

Is McCain giving a victory speach?  Are you going to vote for him if he gives a speach because he is present?  Is he mentioning that Obama beat him?  Is he going to stand up for women's rights?  Are you going to help McCain win?


by stationakl on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:08:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 2)

I wasn't aware that declining to give a speech to a crowd of supporters after a primary the candidate didn't compete in was considered a "duck," but ok, gripe away, I won't stop you. One question, though: given that Planned Parenthood devised the "present" strategy, does this mean you don't want anyone even remotely affiliated with the group in the White House?


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (1.00 / 3)

You are a perfect example of why many HRC supporters here are viewed with such contempt.  All bluster and no substance, so very typical.


by LtWorf on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:04:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

This comment hardly deserves mojo, but saying someone is all bluster and no substance is hardly worthy of a 0, either, so I'm balancing it out.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:47:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Why do you keep misrepresenting Obama's present votes? I've posted this at least a half-dozen times:

"We worked on the 'present' vote strategy with Obama," said Pam Sutherland, chief lobbyist for the Illinois branch of Planned Parenthood, an abortion rights group. "He was willing to vote 'no', and was always going to be a 'no' vote for us."

Sutherland said Planned Parenthood calculated that a 'present' vote by Obama would encourage other senators to cast a similar vote, rather than voting for the legislation. "They were worried about direct mail pieces against them. The more senators voted present, the harder it was to mount an issues campaign against the senator."
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2008/02/obamas_voting_record_on_abor ti.html


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Unfortunately, your information is incorrect:

To be clear, voting "present" on those bills was a strategy that IL NOW did not support. At that time, we made it clear to the legislators that we disagreed with the strategy. We wanted legislators to take a stand against the harmful anti-choice bills being brought to the floor of the Illinois State Senate.

Voting "present" does not demonstrate leadership and does not send the clarion signal that one is unwavering in their support of a woman's right to choose. IL NOW knew that those bills were unacceptable to women. Except for these present votes, Senator Obama's record on choice has been excellent, but he has not taken leadership on the issue at the same level that Hillary has.

Ms. Brett asserts that the strategy to vote "present" was devised to give political cover to legislators in conservative districts. State Senator Barack Obama did not represent a conservative district and he could have voted "no" with little negative consequence in his district.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:17:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Politicsmatters didn't say NOW supported the strategy. He (she?) said Planned Parenthood supported the strategy. That's incorrect how, exactly?


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Politicsmatters accused me of misrepresenting Obama's vote. It wasn't misrepresented at all, as the N.O.W. of Obama's home state verifies.

Voting "present" and not taking a stand on issues relating to the reprodctive health of women is an act of cowardice. They called him on this issue, and they were correct.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:27:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

The strategy was put together with Planned Parenthood is far more involved in legislative strategy than NOW.  NOW is more of a get your contributions and make endorsements kind of organization which always supports women candidates.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:31:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

Obama has had great difficulty explaining his 129 "present" votes in the Illinois legislature on issues such as promoting school discipline and prohibiting sex shops near places of worship. This is just another instance where he utterly failed to provide leadership.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Then your beef is with Illinois Planned Parenthood.  If you have a problem with them, state it.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:46:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Planned Parenthood doesn't vote. Obama did, and he voted wrong. Period.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:55:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Not according to Planned Parenthood.  He voted exactly the way they wanted him to.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:58:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Not according to Illinois National Organization for Women. He ducked the vote and blew it.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

He didn't "duck" the vote.  He voted it down.

Why do I even bother?  If he had voted the way NOW wanted, you'd be writing about how he'd turned his back on Planned Parenthood.


by Jordache on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:30:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

He ducked the vote by voting "present" and turned his back on the reproductive rights of women. He failed to obtain NOW's endorsement in his home state, and they had a very compelling reason why he failed to earn it.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:24:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Of course, there's the former president of Chicago NOW.... she switched her support from Clinton to Obama because of attacks like yours from the Clinton campaign.


It's just the beat of time, the beat that must go on
If you've been trying for years, we already heard your song
by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:01:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

Once again, debunked by Illinois NOW:

Brett was not Chicago NOW President during Obama's present votes

Statement of Bonnie Grabenhofer, IL NOW State President

Much has been printed in both the mainstream and alternative media and many have watched videos of Lorna Brett's comments on important votes that occurred while Barack Obama was serving in the Illinois State Senate (see article below). Ms. Brett continues to present herself as the President of Chicago NOW when IL State Senator Barack Obama was making decisions on votes that were critical for women and girls in Illinois. As the current Illinois NOW State President, it is essential that I clarify for the record that Ms. Brett's assertions are not correct. Lorna Brett was president of Chicago NOW from 1996-1998. She was not, as she represents, the president of Chicago NOW at the time IL NOW activists were meeting and talking with legislators about the abortion bills in the early 2000s. Ms. Brett is misleading people and using her very old affiliation with NOW to help distance Senator Obama from his vote of present on key bills and as a platform for her personal criticism of Senator Hillary Clinton.

Five of those votes occurred in the 92nd General Assembly session in 2001. Our records indicate that Ms. Brett has not been a member of NOW since 1999. Ms. Brett was not involved with either Chicago NOW or IL NOW when we were fighting to stop these bills. Ms. Brett is misleading people and using her very old affiliation with NOW to help distance Senator Obama from his vote of present on key bills and as a platform for her personal criticism of Senator Hillary Clinton.

To be clear, voting "present" on those bills was a strategy that IL NOW did not support. At that time, we made it clear to the legislators that we disagreed with the strategy. We wanted legislators to take a stand against the harmful anti-choice bills being brought to the floor of the Illinois State Senate. Voting "present" does not demonstrate leadership and does not send the clarion signal that one is unwavering in their support of a woman's right to choose. IL NOW knew that those bills were unacceptable to women. Except for these present votes, Senator Obama's record on choice has been excellent, but he has not taken leadership on the issue at the same level that Hillary has.

Ms. Brett asserts that the strategy to vote "present" was devised to give political cover to legislators in conservative districts. State Senator Barack Obama did not represent a conservative district and he could have voted "no" with little negative consequence in his district.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:22:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

This is so old...get the facts why don't you??  His present votes on these seven issues was a planned strategy he agreed on with planned parenthood - PP has said he was 100% in the no column but agreed to vote present as in the IL leg that is the same as a 'no' vote and is done to prevent such votes to be used against them in the future (in this case, planned parenthood).  He has a 100% rating as stated by another poster.  This whole thing has played 100X already!


by mariannie on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:02:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

Yes, please "get the facts."

During Senator Obama's 2004 senate campaign, the Illinois NOW PAC did not recommend the endorsement of Obama for U.S. Senate because he refused to stand up for a woman's right to choose and repeatedly voted `present' on important legislation.

As a State Senator, Barack Obama voted `present' on seven abortion bills, including a ban on 'partial birth abortion,' two parental notification laws and three 'born alive' bills.  In each case, the right vote was clear, but Senator Obama chose political cover over standing and fighting for his convictions.

"When we needed someone to take a stand, Senator Obama took a pass," said Grabenhofer. "He wasn't there for us then and we don't expect him to be now."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:24:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

review (none / 0)

Hillary tonight underperformed Obama's best TEN Victories

What does tonight's final tally look like?  After reviewing the 2nd Exit Update, Tonight is going to be

65% Clinton
32% Obama

Obama built his 179 Delegate lead on much larger victories than Hillary's 33% Victory Tonight in West Virginia, Home to 5 Electoral Votes... Let's Recap the Scoreboard.

Idaho  4 Electoral Votes
Obama 79%
Clinton 17%
 Obama +62%

Hawaii 4 Electoral Votes
Obama 76%
Clinton 24%
 Obama +52%

Alaska  3 Electoral Votes
Obama 75%
Clinton 25%
 Obama +50%

Washington 11 Electoral Votes
Obama 68%
Clinton 31%
Obama +37%

Georgia 15 Electoral Votes (Competitive with Bob Barr)
Obama 67%
Clinton 31%
 Obama +36%

Colorado 9 Electoral Votes
Obama 67%
Clinton 32%
 Obama +35%

Minnesota 10 Electoral Votes
Obama 66%
Clinton 32%
 Obama +34%


by dearreader on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:14:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 3)

This is the best she has done.

Here are the best he has done.

Idaho  4 Electoral Votes
Obama 79%
Clinton 17%
 Obama +62%

Hawaii 4 Electoral Votes
Obama 76%
Clinton 24%
 Obama +52%

Alaska  3 Electoral Votes
Obama 75%
Clinton 25%
 Obama +50%

Washington 11 Electoral Votes
Obama 68%
Clinton 31%
Obama +37%

Georgia 15 Electoral Votes (Competitive with Bob Barr)
Obama 67%
Clinton 31%
 Obama +36%

Colorado 9 Electoral Votes
Obama 67%
Clinton 32%
 Obama +35%

Minnesota 10 Electoral Votes
Obama 66%
Clinton 32%
 Obama +34%

So when she gets a 62% margin she is level. Til then she is underperforming.


by telfishbackagain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All but Georgia are anti-democratic caucuses (2.00 / 2)

Getting these numbers in sparsely attended caucuses is underwhelming.

She is winning the swing states and winning an amazing margin in a contested primary with high turnout.

This is after the media declared the contest over and yet people came out and voted for her.

Obama is a very weak candidate.

His lead is all based on caucus wins.


by BigB on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All but Georgia are anti-democratic caucuses (none / 0)

Georgia held a primary. Obama won by around the same margin as Clinton is winning WV. Impressive wins in both cases.


by letterc on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:14:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All but Georgia are anti-democratic caucuses (none / 0)

Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisana, S.C., N.C. - all because of AA vote, which is great, but can't carry those states in the general unless hell has frozen over.


by Tolstoy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:38:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All but Georgia are anti-democratic caucuses (2.00 / 1)

Without the AA vote the last Democrat in the Whitehouse would have been LBJ.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All but Georgia are anti-democratic caucuses (2.00 / 1)

Both what I said and what you said are true.


by Tolstoy on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:02:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All but Georgia are anti-democratic caucuses (none / 0)

I know.  I think to win in November we need both Clinton's coalition and Obama's.


by Jordache on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:33:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All but Georgia are anti-democratic caucuses (none / 0)

Tell that to Childers...


I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!
by hootie4170 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:24:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Why are we demanding that West Virginians vote for who will win rather than who they want to win? That is the complete antithesis of democracy, and is highly patronizing to the voters of West Virginia. Let the them support who they want, not who the rest of the country wants. That's why we don't have a national primary. The term "frontrunner" should have no bearing on any state's results, and as a former supporter of Biden and Dodd, shame on the voters who let it influence them.

Obama's vote is further depressed by the fact that he barely campaigned in the state. Had he gone all out the way Clinton did, the gap would certainly have narrowed.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (2.00 / 1)

He didn't campaign because he knew he'd be trounced. Which he was. Stop making excuses.

It's 64-29 with 35% reporting. Obama has declined to give a speech this evening following the WV results. Clinton is ahead in every single WV county reporting. Obama may not even break 30 percent, despite being practically anointed with the nomination?!?!

Obama needs to recognize he's in serious trouble come November if he's our nominee.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

RCP has Obama over McCain by 4.4, and Clinton over McCain by 4.5. The media will cover Obama more favorably than they will Clinton (which is admittedly unfair and decidedly not cool), so his numbers are more likely to move up than hers. If Obama's in serious trouble come November, she's right down there with him.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:15:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Link?


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Apologies. Here they are:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ 2008/president/us/general_election_mccai n_vs_clinton-224.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ 2008/president/us/general_election_mccai n_vs_obama-225.html


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:26:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Neither link substantiates your claim:

"The media will cover Obama more favorably than they will Clinton (which is admittedly unfair and decidedly not cool), so his numbers are more likely to move up than hers. If Obama's in serious trouble come November, she's right down there with him."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

No, the link substantiate the poll numbers. What you quote isn't a cite with a source, it's personal analysis. I'm surprised you disagree with it - are you the one Clinton supporter who actually thinks the media treated her better than Obama over the past six months?


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:47:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

No. I disagree with your fairytale "analysis" that Obama's numbers will magically go up.

The media will cover Obama more favorably than they will Clinton (which is admittedly unfair and decidedly not cool), so his numbers are more likely to move up than hers.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed May 14, 2008 at 10:52:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Did I say they "will" go up, or did I say they are "more likely" to go up? Those words are hardly the same thing - "will" implies at least a 51% chance, whereas "more likely" is a relative term: 20% is more likely than 10%.

So don't distort. Until you take issue with my actual suggestion, there's really nothing for me to say.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

RCP does support this - she's only polling .1  better than he in a General, so whatever trouble he's in, she's got too.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:48:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

YOU of all people ask for a link?  Please.


by LtWorf on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:05:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's going to be a blow out (none / 0)

Another way to look at it is that the media might turn against him, but they cannot turn against her. They HATE her already.

Her numbers are pretty much immune to media attacks, because the people who have stuck with her to this point have heard it all, up to and including accusations of multiple murders. But his are not.

I am not harboring any illusions about Clinton's nomination chances at this point - I would put them at maybe 1/10 at best. I just hope for the sake of our party that Obama got all the Wright stuff out into the open this spring. If there are a bunch more controversial tapes that have not seen the light yet, it could get ugly.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

delegates... lol (2.00 / 1)

spin spin spin


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:24:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: delegates... lol (none / 0)

Delegates... spin?  No, the delegate count is the cold, hard truth.

Spin would be to point out that Obama has won five states with greater margins than this.  But nobody's saying that.  I didn't just say that.  You didn't read it.


by Jordache on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:27:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (none / 0)

come on obama just hit 35 for me!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:31:54 PM EST

Oh he's way past 35 (none / 0)

votes that is.

Percent?  He'll be lucky if he hits 25.  

I'm wondering whether he'll end up with fewer votes than McCain...


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:40:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (2.00 / 1)

So guys, the end of Obama right? No way he can recover from this, is there????


by grass on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:32:28 PM EST

I'm ok with that. (none / 0)


by Molee on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:33:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm ok with that. (2.00 / 1)

I wonder if B.O. is going to drop out tomorrow?

He should. He can't close the deal.

/snark


I trust Barack Hussein Obama.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (none / 0)

Who's got the other 8% of the votes?  Is Edwards still on the ballot?


by LordMike on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:33:01 PM EST

any chance Edwards will beat Obama? (2.00 / 1)


by Molee on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:33:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nope (none / 0)

That would mean that hillary got >80% of the vote which isn't going to happen.


by puma on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (none / 0)

Yes, Edwards is on the ballot (he was not in PA), and was polling at 4% before the vote. Additionally, WV lists hometowns on their ballot, and that "Chapel Hill, North Carolina" sure doesn't hurt.

I'm trying to remember where I read that today - I thought it was First Read, but I can't find it there. Politico, maybe? Apologies for the lack of a link.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:10:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary says the race goes on... (2.00 / 2)

I like Jeralyn's take on this,

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/5/13/ 202125/679

rather than 9 out of ten unqualified pundits or Democratic Party men who lost the WH (Dodd, Kerry, Kennedy , McGovern) telling her otherwise.

Go Hillary to the White House!


by Molee on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:35:53 PM EST

Re: Hillary says the race goes on... (2.00 / 2)

You are absolutely right. I know 9 out of 10 scientists will say that global warming is real and that evolution is all but proven, but I prefer the one that has the courage to say those other ones are wrong.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary says the race goes on... (2.00 / 1)

Chris Matthews had a funny exchange with Terry MacAuliffe.  It was Terry MacAuliffe saying "why won't you guys let her run?" and Chris Matthews saying "You know very well, being in this business as long as you have, that there is nothing more in the world we want than a brokered convention!  We want her to run!  Who are you arguing with?  You're arguing with NO ONE!"


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:52:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary says the race goes on... (none / 0)

So it's true because Chris Matthews says so?

The news executives may want a brokered convention, but the reporters on the campaign trail?  The talking heads?  They're sick of Obama/Clinton.  They've been doing this story for almost a year.  Combine that with the hatred many of them hold for Clinton, and they want to wrap this up soon.


by therealdeal on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:12:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary says the race goes on... (none / 0)

PLEASE. They just want ratings, and a happy Democratic resolution is the last thing on their minds.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:11:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary says the race goes on... (none / 0)

Well I think Chris Matthews is a better authority on what political reporters want than Jeralyn Merritt is.

Jeralyn Merritt is a partisan, and right now the Clinton strategy is to run against the media. It's a time-honored strategy.  It works.


by Jordache on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:38:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary wins 13% among Independent Voters (2.00 / 2)

so much for BO's appeal....


by nikkid on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:36:23 PM EST

Re: Hillary wins 13% among Independent Voters (none / 0)

C'mon, he has appeal, obviously. He does have a problem with non-AA working class voters, and I think he realizes it. But it is hard for him to come out and say so during the primary. As a GE strategy, (assuming he wins the nomination) he would do well to confront this problem head-on.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:03:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary wins 13% among Independent Voters (none / 0)

I'd amend that to non-AA working class white voters, east of the mississippi.  At least if you're going by exit polls, and I assume you are.

Not all white people are the same.


by Jordache on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:39:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary wins 13% among Independent Voters (none / 0)

By "non-AA", I mean Asians and Latinos as well. Obama's coalition is narrow but deep. The depth is one reason (among several) that he won so many caucuses - caucuses measure activist enthusiasm better than they measure broad public support. The narrowness is why he has had trouble winning large states that are not home to a high % of AA voters.

I am not saying he cannot win those states, but they will be hard for him.

> Not all white people are the same

Yes, that is a truism, but irrelevant to the topic. I was talking about statistics and demographics, not absolutes.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (1.50 / 2)

Hillary would make a mighty fine governurr of West Virginy.  YeeeeeHawwww!


"I'm all for the delegate battle, and now that Obama's campaign is too, I'm all giddy. It's going to be the supers as kingmaker." J.Armstrong 01/19/08
by obscurant on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:37:08 PM EST

Re: CNN exit polling (2.00 / 1)

Herein lies the problem.  The mockery, the condescension.


by Susan in Oregon on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:57:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (2.00 / 1)

That's A problem.  Not THE problem.

If you look around this thread you'll find the usual suspects taking shots at Obama for no reason.  People who voted for him are going to get annoyed.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:53:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (2.00 / 1)

What you say is true, and I for one try not to take gratuitous shots at Obama. However, if you agree with the common wisdom among Obama backers that he has the nomination locked up, why not start trying to work on his potential GE weaknesses now?

I would submit that dismissing Democrats who voted for Hillary as a bunch of ignorant hicks is not the way to make friends.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (none / 0)

I agree.  That's why I said that saying so is a problem.


by Jordache on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:41:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (none / 0)

Yes, I was addressing that post to the general readership, not you personally. Apologies for not being clear.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Wed May 14, 2008 at 03:09:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (none / 0)

Yes, she would. But she'd make an even better President.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:59:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN exit polling (1.00 / 1)

and you would be a fabu elitist jackass, snif


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:35:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Congratulations Hillary Clinton! (2.00 / 2)

Hillary ran a fine race.

She is a formatable opponent.

The party will need her tireless support in the run up to November.

She has earned a powerful place in this party's future.

Now...  it's finally time to...

Rally around the 2008 Democratic Presidential Nominee.

Barack Obama!


by Silence Do Good on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:37:53 PM EST

Obamaspin (none / 0)

how cute


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:38:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obamaspin (none / 0)

Okay then, don't rally around the nominee.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obamaspin (none / 0)

Once we have a nominee we will all rally around her. In the meantime I don't think we need a guy who started posting two days ago to telling us what to do.

One of the nice things about MyDD, people here will  take a critical look at the nominee and how she carries out her general election campaign. Boosterism is not this blog's primary purpose.


by souvarine on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're kidding with this piece of S**T comment (1.50 / 2)

Look at the person who ran her campaign best?

Sycophants in key positions.

Inevitiability?

No plan beyond Super Tuesday?

$20 million in debt?

A list of small businesses a mile long left in a lurch waiting for payment?

What a joke this comment is.


by LtWorf on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obamaspin (2.00 / 1)

With as much respect as I would give anyone, I don't see how anyone can possibly take a "critical look" at this blog and say that boosterism is not its primary purpose.

God almighty, look at the rec list.  Any day, any hour, non-stop for the past five months.


by Jordache on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:44:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obamaspin (none / 0)

Oh dear, things have got really bad for Hillary when Teresa can only manage a "how cute".  What was it that finally did it for you, the turnout figures?


by interestedbystander on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:56:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I was on the DKOS, and people over there (2.00 / 3)

have gone totally nuts and crazy. I am an Obama supporter, but i have to say this clearly and loudly: Obama supporters on the DKOS who are accusing West Virginians of racism and call them names and spreading disparaging remarks (incestuous marital relations, bad hygiene and just plain hicks) and stereotypes about them are WRONG and i am ashamed that they even call themselves supporters of Obama.


by likelihood zero on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:40:00 PM EST

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)

Look up these diaries:

-Not worth reading WV EXIT POLL DATA
-West Virginia


by likelihood zero on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:01:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)

Just go the DKOs and look for those diaries


by likelihood zero on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:19:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)

Are you calling me a liar? what the hell do you want from me...i told you, you can go over there and look for them and i gave you the titles of those diaries...

Goodness gracious...are you working for DKOS? Do you feel that you need to defend them? Have some independent thoughts for god's sake.

And here is freaking link for you

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/13/ 19834/8609


by likelihood zero on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:32:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (2.00 / 3)

All the comments are calling that diarist a troll and tell him/her to delete the diary.  Sorry, but the DailyKos community rejected that ugly sentiment.


by CA Pol Junkie on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)

and half the comments say "delete please".

I read your comment and now all I can think of... "puhleeze..."


by Pragmatic Left on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)


You know what?  EVERY candidate's supporters have their lowest common denominators.  They're not indicative of a damned thing other than their own ignorance.

Someone from the campaign itself says something this ignorant, I'd say it's news.  Otherwise...


by rlamoureux on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:04:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)

Not all comments were supportive and i agree with that, but there were some that were pretty bad and the puzzling fact that there were 3 diaries written which were pretty disparaging. And i see that 2 of them were totally deleted.


by likelihood zero on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)

like I said before...at least the bad ones are deleted.  over at the other anti-Obama sites they are there in all their glory - proud of it!


by mariannie on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:21:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)

I think it's obvious what we "want from you." When you mention a story or make a point, link to it, as you finally, eventually got around to doing. It's not incumbent upon your audience to research your claims. Insinuation will get you nowhere. Links will give you credibility.  Calm down, that's nothing to get huffy about.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (1.50 / 2)

I gave him the titles of those diaries, he could have gone and looked them up. If i did not give him any reference, i would be mistaken.

Do i need to spoon feed him? I taught college for about 6 years before moving to the private sector and when  students ask me about some references, i just give them the title of the article or the journal and they usually research for it and find it. This guy is just too lazy to do a bit of research and he rubbed me the wrong way tonight. I apologize though, but i resent his insinuations.


by likelihood zero on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:40:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)

Oh, come on, blueinboston, this comment isn't TR-worthy, that's TR abuse.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:33:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was on the DKOS, and people over there (none / 0)

Nope, that link was not good enough - it was in blue pixels. I refuse to follow your link until you render it in orange pixels. With flowers and unicorns.   :-D


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is