Hillary's West Virginia Margin

How much is she going to win by? The Clinton campaign, is, as you might expect, trying to lower expectations.

Howard Wolfson is hilariously lowballing it:

"I think Democrats across the country tomorrow will be asking themselves why Senator Obama, with all of his money, with all of the great press, with voters being told that he is the inevitable nominee, why did Senator Obama lose West Virginia by 15 points or so?" Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said on NBC's "Today Show."

According to The New York Times, though, the Clinton campaign's official projections lie more in the 25% range:

The Clinton camp believes she could win by as much as 25 points, and Mrs. Clinton is counting on a big victory to impress undecided superdelegates, the party leaders who will most likely decide the nomination.

But I'd put my bet on Poblano.

We are projecting a margin of 39 points and approximately 105,000 popular votes for Hillary Clinton. The statewide and PLEO delegates will almost certainly be split 5-2 and 2-1 respectively. Obama will either salvage 7, 8 or 9 delegates from West Virginia depending whether WV-1 and WV-3 flip a fifth delegate to Clinton.

An interesting sidenote: Poblano predicts a decent showing by John Edwards in WV today.

Forgot to mention: I am reserving 4 percent of the popular vote for John Edwards, which was his standing in the most recent Suffolk
poll. We did not have to worry about Edwards in Pennsylvania, North Carolina or Indiana, as he was not on the ballot there. But he is in West Virginia, and in fact he is featured [first on the ballot.]

What's a little bit unusual about the West Virginia ballot is that it lists each candidate's hometown. Something tells me that the guy from Chapel Hill, North Carolina is going to pick off a few late-deciders from the candidates from Chicago and Chappaqua. Edwards got 4.5 percent of the vote in Tennessee -- he actually beat Obama in a handful of rural counties there -- and he can probably expect to do similarly here.

I recommend reading the whole thing. Poblano offers a thorough and refreshingly detached analysis.

Update [2008-5-13 17:58:40 by Todd Beeton]:Via Marc Ambinder, Team Obama wades into the pre-counter-spinning of Clinton's West Virginia margin of victory:

The Clinton campaign has already been touting their margins in these states – In fact, Bill Clinton said that Hillary can win West Virginia with 80 percent—and the West Virginia Senate Majority Leader said Clinton needs to win by “80-20 or 90-10.” And in keeping large margins in perspective, it is worth noting that, while Senator Clinton will win big in West Virginia, Barack Obama won neighboring Virginia by 29 points.



Display:


The Popular Vote doesn't matter (none / 0)

It is really about the delegate count.  If Hillary wins 100% of the vote, she will get 28 delegates.  She is still so far behind in the delegate count for this to matter.


by puma on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:19:47 PM EST

Popular Vote Can Matter (none / 0)

Great taste, less filling.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:24:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Popular Vote Can Matter (none / 0)

Can?  Sure.  Will?  Doesn't look likely.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

actually, if she gets 86% (none / 0)

she gets 28.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actually, if she gets 86% (none / 0)

Rise, baby!


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:28:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actually, if she gets 86% (none / 0)

Has to be over 86% in all three districts though.


by jimotto on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:47:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

She always does well in Appalachia.

Obama will pick up 8-10, bringing the amount he needs to lead in pledged delegates to 23-25.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:25:52 PM EST

ah HA (none / 0)

Now that's one way Hillary doesn't want this to be viewed.

Delegates needed: 2024.5
Obama has: 1874.5
Needed: 150
Unpledged Superdelegates: 241

This got said 4 months ago, and I wasn't sure how true it was, but I think we'll get to find out: No one wants to be the 2025th delegate, which if true is about to cause a mad rush to endorse. By the time May 20th rolls around, Obama may be crossing the 2025 mark, not just the 1626.5 mark.


by mattw on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah HA (none / 0)

I'd say everyone wants to be delegate number 2025 but doesn't want to be delegate number 2024 or 2026.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:54:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah HA (none / 0)

I think people are okay being 2023 or 2024, they just don't want to be 2026. Technically, they want to be delegate 2024.5. Obama HAS the half-delegate already though, so the last delegate will be the one covering the one that raises him from 2023.5 to 2024.5.


by mattw on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah HA (none / 0)

No, I don't think a SD wants to be the one that puts Obama over the edge.  Much better to get him close enough that the voters in OR/KY can do that.


by ChrisKaty on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

It's so weird having it be 2:30 (PDT) on an election day and I haven't even thought about trying to find exit polls.  Are they even online for this one?


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:26:17 PM EST

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

http://thepage.time.com/


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:34:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

Let me guess, Clinton up big?


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

I say Obama will get 35%, if he got 40 it would be awesome but that is pretty much unlikely.


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:27:39 PM EST

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

I think even 35% is pushing it.  Obama lost PA-10, which has similar demographics to WV, by 40%.


by Brad G on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:30:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

I'll say 24%.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:31:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

Gah, you gotta give yer girl a little more credit than that.  She is gonna stomp mah boy up and down the state tonight.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:41:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

Gee -- a 15% win in WV will net, like, six delegates tops for Hillary.  That's not exactly great when you're 165 delegates behind.


by Brad G on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:29:08 PM EST

I'll go with Poblano's 39 (none / 0)

It'll be a chile day in hell that Poblano gets beat by the pollsters.

(footnote for West Virginians - the "poblano" is a delectably tasty chile pepper introduced to sinful homosexual Californians by the evil brown Mexican marauders to distract us while they steal our language.)


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:29:22 PM EST

haut cuisine (none / 0)

I like to chase my evening poblano with a nice café machiato or a snifter of vintage port.


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: haut cuisine (2.00 / 1)

You elitist!

I bet you buy your Birkenstocks at zappos.com.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: haut cuisine (none / 0)

You elitist! I bet you buy your Birkenstocks at zappos.com.

I don't wear shoes. I only have to walk from the hot tub to the computer where I sit and think deep thoughts about the trials and tribulations of bitter West Virginians over a glass of Brunello di Montalcino.


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:40:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

An interesting sidenote: Poblano predicts a decent showing by John Edwards in WV today.

More proof that Edwards dropped out way too early.  


by Captain Bathrobe on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:32:33 PM EST

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

With respect to WV. NC and IN were the big guns. And they are over now.
OR is the biggest state till the end primary. Let's take note and take the fight on.
Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:35:17 PM EST

Unimportant (none / 0)

The primary today is as important as Guam's was...


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:37:14 PM EST

Re: Unimportant (none / 0)

Just checking, because maybe you know better than I do. But how many electoral college votes does Guam have again?


by carrieboberry on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unimportant (none / 0)

Just checking...is this the General Election or the Democratic Primary??  Correct me if I'm wrong, but one candidate has an insurmountable lead and can't lose based on tonights contest.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:44:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Someone call the Guambulance (none / 0)

Don't diss Guam.  Guam will mess you up.

:P

One day it will be the United States of Guamerica, just you wait.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Incorrect. (none / 0)

Obama will earn 4 times the delegates out of WV that he earned from Guam.


by jimotto on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:49:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill says 60% so that's what I'm going with (none / 0)

anything less is a win for Obama.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:37:18 PM EST

Re: Bill says 60% so that's what I'm going with (none / 0)

With something like 35 delegates at stake in WV, Clinton only needs to win about 150 of those to be back in the game.


by mattw on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:15:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill says 60% so that's what I'm going with (none / 0)

I declare you the winner of this thread.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:17:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill says 60% so that's what I'm going with (none / 0)

ha. funny stuff.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:52:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

When this is all over....

Poblano is going to be a legend.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:39:07 PM EST

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

What is the relevance of the size of her victory? I truly do not see why this is worthy of a front page post.


by wasder on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:39:58 PM EST

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

Oh, that Wolfson.  He should be opening at the Apollo after the nomination is over with.


by rfahey22 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:43:43 PM EST

glad to see poblano quoted on this site... (none / 0)

excellent analyst..n/t


by tracey webb on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:50:09 PM EST

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

A more interesting question is turnout, and the reason the Clinton campaign is driving so hard to turn this into a game changing contest. They need bodies at the polls, absent that the big margin is fairly yawnworthy.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:57:34 PM EST

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

CBS Exit Poll says 51% of WV voters believe Obama shares Rev. Wright's views.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/arch ives/2008/05/west_virginia_exit_polls.ph p

Thank God the rest of the country isn't nearly this stupid.  I know we're supposed to respect every state, but stupidity is what got us 8 years of Bush.  This isn't a different perspective, this is just people who are clearly dumb, or willfully ignorant.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:02:02 PM EST

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

Or, to put myself in their shoes, too busy working a bone-numbing, brutally hard and dangerous job mining coal to get on the Internet and carefully weigh all sides. Did the MSM give the pro-Obama side of the Wright controversy more airtime that I missed?

Reach out, don't put down. If they're ignorant and you're an asshole... well, they can always learn. (And I don't mean to say you ARE an asshole - I'm just saying that if Democrats put down a group, they have other options, namely repubs.)


by mattw on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:18:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

Last time I checked, WV has not cornered the market on hard work.  Try telling that to most of the country that lives paycheck to paycheck.   But based on the the results of this poll, they've clearly cornered the market on stupid, or to put it more politely, on being uninformed.

To quote that famous buffoon that WV help stick us with, "the soft bigotry of low expectations" isn't doing anyone, particularly WV it seems, any favors.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

In the ARG poll, 45% of Clinton Democrats will never vote for Obama.  I think these numbers are extraordinary.


by handsomegent on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:03:45 PM EST

Re: Hillary's West Virginia Margin (none / 0)

Who is ROBERT C. BYRD supporting or Endorsing?
Barack should select Robert C. Byrd as his Vice Presidential runningmate- This will be a perfect balanced ticket.
by nkpolitics on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:30:51 PM EST


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