Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People

After a week of being inundated with Obama surrogates unhelpfully dismissing the notion that Barack Obama would deign to choose Hillary Clinton as his VP nominee, a majority of voters, including 3/4 of Clinton supporters, are signaling loud and clear that that's exactly what he should do.

In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll, 55% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents also would like Illinois Sen. Barack Obama to choose Clinton as his running mate, although there's notable resistance among his backers. [...]

Three of four Clinton supporters would like to see her on Obama's ticket. But 52% of Obama supporters would rather he "choose someone else."

In other words, the first unifying gesture for a man who's run on his ability to unify would be to choose the person who came in a close second for the ticket. It puzzles me to hear people automatically dismiss the idea of Clinton as VP. For one thing, as this poll proves, the pick it would assuage Clinton's extremely passionate army of supporters, who Obama is going to need in the general -- and I'm not just talking for votes. But in addition, a Clinton pick has the added benefit of shoring up Obama's demographic weaknesses (working class whites, latinos, women), his perceived deficiency in the resume department, which, quite frankly, I suspect would cause more people to defect to McCain than Obama's race would, and it would balance out his lofty post-partisan inspirer-in-chief persona with an in the trenches fighter, one who for once would beat the pants off the Republican VP nominee in a debate.

As for the cons, well, I do find the argument that it would be counter to Obama's message of a new kind of politics rather compelling, but the benefits that would accrue to the ticket overall would far outweigh any thematic incongruence. And as for the personality conflict argument or the "what would Obama do with Bill" argument, please, Obama says time and time again this campaign is not about him; surely his choice for VP should be about way more than who gets along with whom and Clinton on the ticket would be far more likely to enable the transformation Obama wants to achieve than hinder it.

I was glad to see Hardball's analysis of Obama's most likely VP picks omit Bill Richardson from contention. Not only is Richardson horribly gaffe-prone, but I just don't think a black/brown ticket is realistic.

As for another popular pick, Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, I have to say I'm puzzled. I suppose her being a Democrat in a red state brings that thematic congruence to the ticket, but little else. Certainly her dud of a State of the Union response alone should disqualify her as not ready for prime time, but ultimately I agree with Dem strategist Steve McMahon who said on Hardball yesterday that national security experience is going to be much too important to Obama's choice of VP for Sebelius to be seriously considered.

It's no accident that the consensus pick as the "best" choice for Obama on Hardball yesterday was a Republican, Chuck Hagel, for his national security experience (read: gravitas) and the message it would send vis a vis Obama's post-partisan message of inclusion. Which is to say that the Democrats on the list all have something that makes them problematic. Is Hillary Clinton's so-called divisiveness so problematic that it should keep her off the ticket? Seems to me that not only does Hillary Clinton balance out Obama's weaknesses -- the true utility of a VP choice -- but when it comes to the Democratic base, she's far more of a unifying pick than a divisive one.



Display:


Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 2)

I've been an Obama backer from the start and I've felt since NH that Obama and Clinton would be on the same ticket and that they were just fighting for the top.  After 3/5, I have believed that it became nearly a virtual certainty that Obama would have to pick Clinton.  My opinion hasn't changed, and I think that Clinton will make a fine VP.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:21:45 PM EST

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

Two halfs (of the Democratic party) make a whole?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

With Hillary's famed divisiveness, that's a whole 48% of the vote!


by Terrance Manley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:59:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

Not only is it attaching Hillary's divisiveness to his ticket, it directly diminishes his core message of hope through a new brand of politics.  That hope is leveraged on Obama's integrity.  

but the benefits that would accrue to the ticket overall would far outweigh any thematic incongruence.
 This, Todd, seems to be written by someone who has no appreciation for (perhaps no belief in?) Obama's integrity.


by bekhardt on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

I think that would be belief in.

Todd's decent, honest, and highly intelligent, at least as far as my reckoning goes.  But people who were never for Obama in the first place don't see how undermining this is, or how little sense it makes.

It cuts both ways - had Clinton won, I would not want Obama on that ticket.  (I would want Clinton to win and would work to make that happen, just to be clear).


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:25:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who would you have picked? (none / 0)

... I'm curious. Edwards would have been a better choice.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:28:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who would you have picked? (2.00 / 1)

Since I'm not in the campaign's head, so to speak, it's hard for me to say, but I always assumed Evan Bayh would be their choice.  I like him.

Or Clark.  Not Edwards - I'd want him in a position with REAL power, and the Clinton model of the vice-presidency is a weak one.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:33:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who would you have picked? (2.00 / 2)

Just curious.

Don't bite my head off I am just asking here.

But how do you think that Sen. Clinton's supporters are going to read this? If half the
Democratic party supports Sen. Clinton? Especially now if you feel that Sen. Obama has the nomination locked up but Sen. Clinton's supporters do not.

It's been a bitter primary. Lots of fussing on both sides here on MyDD. Yes there are bitter and vocal supporters on both sides. If Sen. Obama looked over Sen. Clinton for someone else I shouldn't wonder that her supporters would question their support for Sen. Obama. Why should they go somewhere where that they think their candidate and they themselves are so visibly not wanted.

You can't ignore Sen. Clinton's supporters. You need them to win in the General Election.

As for if they like one another or not. Someone in this thread has already mentioned the Reagan Bush primary division. Voodoo Economics. They also mentioned the Kennedy/Johnson ticket where there was no love between them just the cynical observation that they needed Johnson on the ticket to get elected.

With Sen Obama and Sen. Clinton on the same ticket don't you get both 1/2's of the Democratic party.

Don't two halves, of the Democratic Party, make one whole ticket? Wouldn't it be prudent for me to make the same arguement if it were Sen. Clinton's choice for vice president?

OH and hey. I almost forgot. One of the functions of the Vice President is to preside over the Senate and cast deciding votes. If Sen. Clinton is so good in the Senate, wouldn't she be great at this role in the Senate?

I'm asking not pontificating. :D


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:04:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who would you have picked? (none / 0)

note.

bored now is one of the folks reminding us about the Reagan/Bush ticket and their primary disagreements as well as the disagreements between Kennedy and Johnson.

Thank you bored now for the historical reference.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:17:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who would you have picked? (none / 0)

I've answered the difference between Kennedy/Johnson and Reagan/Bush with Obama/Clinton elsewhere.

But I put a more complete answer below.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:20:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who would you have picked? (none / 0)

Thanks. Not trying to pot stir and I would like to know.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:29:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who would you have picked? (2.00 / 1)

It's a totally legitimate question and I wouldn't dream of biting your head off.  Or your 12 dogs.

I understand that Clinton supporters are every bit as behind their candidate as I am behind mine, and that their reasons are just as valid as mine.  My opinion just goes to how I see the vice-presidency.  The goal is to attract attention to the top of the ticket, be coherent, and not to detract from the core themes of the President.  Hillary Clinton wouldn't do that.

She's too much her own candidate, with her own people, supporters, messages, themes, Washington power base, popular power base, etc.  The same would be true if it were the other way around. The VP has to be completely subordinate to the top of the ticket, otherwise the whole thing fails.  And whether or not she'd be willing to do that, the press would be covering the process of the whole thing - what's Bill's role?  Who's REALLY going to be in charge?  Do they even like each other? - you can imagine how it would be covered in the press, and I wonder if they'd ever be able to campaign on other terms.  

My observation of Obama is that he's particularly vulnerable to that sort of stuff - he's not as flexible a campaigner as she is.  He cannot hide his disdain for process or personal questions, and it comes off as aloofness.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:18:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who would you have picked? (none / 0)

Wouldn't Democrats go with the Democrat in the Race, they have the same policies  and it is not half the Democrats that are loyal on  a personal level to Clinton.  It is a very small percentage, whatever people would like to believe, just like it is a small percentage of Obama Democratic supporters loyal to him personally over policies or party.

But when you get to the General Election you are appealing to people that are independent and Republicans.  Does Obama make his case, when he flip-flops on every positive message he had during the primary process by picking Clinton?   When you have someone that is promoting compromise and inclusion can you embrace division, and aggression and still be true to your message?  Can you talk about reaching out to the world and change the way it views America when you embrace someone that has talked about Obliterating a country, and nuclear umbrellas?

This is not about policy diffrences they are the same on those issues, this is purely about message and image.  The President has the final say on policy, but when you bring in the antithesis of your message, can you survive the backlash.

This is not limited to the Democratic party, if just being "whole" was enough to win elections we would have alot more Democratic Presidents.  And Hillary is poison outside of the party.  And damages your image everywhere.  And Hillary is not the only way to bring in Hillary supporters, other options exist, ones that would do less overall damage.  

Do you really think it takes skill to say yes or no to break a tie?


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who would you have picked? (none / 0)

Even Dan Quayle managed to get that one right.  We have Justice Thomas to thank for his brilliant efforts.

We'll have a whole lot more if McCain wins.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:56:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I still find compelling... (none / 0)

...the idea of Obama selecting one of Clinton's strongest supporters, such as a Strickland, Bayh or Rendell.  Maybe that's being "too cute by half," but I think Clinton would be a more effective advocate as Senate Majority Leader than VP.  


First and Foremost: A Democrat in the White House
by mascho on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:21:55 PM EST

Re: I still find compelling... (none / 0)

for me it's Wesley Clark or bust!


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:26:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I still find compelling... (none / 0)

I don't think bust is qualified.


by deminva on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:30:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I still find compelling... (none / 0)

OMG Sexism! The glass ceiling reveals itself! They're trying to prevent a woman from ever getting a VP nod! Oh wait....


by nwodtuhs on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:49:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I still find compelling... (none / 0)

Actually, on second thought, my comment might be a bit offensive.

I do think Hillary overplayed the gender card to a ridiculous gratuitous extent, but of course I'm not denying the glass ceiling exists. I just don't think it's been Hillary's problem.


by nwodtuhs on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:51:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd love to see Clark on the ticket!! (none / 0)

... that said, i don't think it will happen. Frown.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:29:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I still find compelling... (none / 0)

Then again, one has to consider that the VP position has changed somewhat since 1992 and definitely since 2000.  Currently, it is almost like the position of prime minister.  Do you think Hillary would turn up her nose at that level of power and responsibility?  Of course, if she did get the VP slot, one would only hope she would conduct herself better, and that she would be held more accountable for her actions, then the current dictator who fills the office.


by wilder on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:37:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I still find compelling... (none / 0)

My dog would conduct himself better than the current VP/dictator.  Needless to say, and  any Dem would behave better.


Yes, I am a Clintonista for Obama.
by Denny Crane on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:33:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I still find compelling... (none / 0)

The VP slot is more like prime minister now only because the president is more like an hereditary monarch.  


by Headlight on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I still find compelling... (none / 0)

True.  Obama could certainly exercise decisions without clinging to his VP like a life raft.  But even Bill Clinton delegated a lot of authority to Al Gore, and I don't think Obama is quite as much of a policy wonk as Bill Clinton was, and so might be willing to leave that role to a wonkier VP.

My point is that the role has been expanded, and once that has happened, it will be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle.


by wilder on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:41:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I still find compelling... (none / 0)

The VP's role has been bigger in the last 16 years, but the constitutional role remains exactly the same, and all authority is only by delegation from the President.  If BO decided as a matter of political expediency to put Clinton on the ticket, there is no reason at all that once in office he would not have the option of leaving her and Bill in the VP's house at the observatory.  The big problem she will have in getting the VP slot is that she feels like she's owed the slot, rather than all the other people who could be considered who would feel honored and priviledged and owe Obama their undying loyalty.  Clinton isn't loyal to anyone but herself and Bill.  


by Headlight on Wed May 14, 2008 at 06:41:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I still find compelling... (2.00 / 2)

I agree. Picking a Clinton supporter would be a good way to bridge the gap. Someone at the convention that could say "I supporter Senator Clinton in the Primary, and Now I am honored to be the Vice Presidential candidate for our Nominee Senator Obama." Wesley Clark is my personal favorite pick.


by Christopher Lib on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:35:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

Is it me or did Clinton supporters suddenly fall in love with Obama?

"empty suit"
"speeches, no action"
"not a Muslim, as far as she knows"
"hasn't passed the commander-in-chief test"
"plagiarized speeches"

Would you do it? Hipocrites!


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:22:05 PM EST

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 2)

It's not the hypocrite part I'm worried about, but all those quotes by Clinton, and other, worse quotes that you haven't mentioned "He hasn't crossed the commander-in-chief threshold" make a unity ticket impossible.

It would be a laughingstock.  How can Hillary Clinton, who thinks all that Barack Obama is not qualified, still be his vice-president.  And how can Barack Obama, whose entire campaign message has been "we need to turn the page", take her?

That ticket makes no sense, and would create so much white noise that it would be impossible to campaign with any kind of clear message.  Not to mention the practical aspect - the press would NEVER stop asking Clinton about her late February quotes.  And she would never have a legitimate answer to them.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 2)

Two words: Voodoo economics.

Reagan still picked Bush Sr. as his VP.

Lyndon Johnson was no friend of Kennedy, and had loads more experience, but still accepted the VP slot.


by wilder on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

Point. Concur.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:45:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not just that they were opponents, but... (2.00 / 1)

that there is so much video of her saying negative things about Obama that it would be difficult for Obama to have her on the ticket.  There was not video of all the nasty things that Johnson said about Kennedy or vice versa.  There is video of Hillary calling Obama basically an empty suit.  There was very little video of Bush questioning Reagan's suitability to be president.  The most popular video is the "voodoo economics" thing.  That is nothing like Hillary questioning whether Obama can be Commander-in-Chief.  It's going to be very difficult to have all the juicy video for Republicans to use and have her on the ticket.  That's why I wonder if it would be a good idea for her to be on it.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:13:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not just that they were opponents, but... (none / 0)

And those EXACT words would be used AGAINST Obama if Clinton was on the ticket.  Sorry, no dice for Clinton.


by tracey webb on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:37:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm sorry, I don't understand... (none / 0)

what you are trying to say.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:25:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

I think "voodoo economics" and "my opponent hasn't crossed the commander-in-chief threshold" are in different universes.

No one ever said that two people with policy differences can't occupy the same ticket, but to question someone's entire candidacy, and then be their VP?

And there's the other issue too, which is that HRC doesn't belong on that ticket.  One of the explicit promises of Obama's campaign is to stick to the issues and be substantive etc. at all times.  You cannot say that and then offer up a ticket that promises a non-stop soap opera for the next 4 years, at least as far as the media is concerned.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:31:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

One was addressing a big substantive issue of 1980, the economy.  The other was addressing a big substantive issue of the present - leading troops, terrorism, foreign policy.  So while "voodoo economics" doesn't seem like such a big deal to us today, it might have made as big an impression on voters of 1980 as anything Clinton, or for that matter, Obama, has said.  

Plus, I doubt that's the only criticism Candidate HW Bush made of Reagan.


by wilder on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

VoooDooo economics is one statement about one aspect regarding policy differences. Clinton's comments questioned Obama's experience, background, and ethics (plagiairism). Very different.

Kennedy was shot dead in Texas, Johnson took control.


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:33:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

What does Kennedy being shot have to do with the fact that two men who didn't like each other very well chose to run on the same ticket?  Are you saying Hillary couldn't as effective as Johnson was should Obama faced that tragic end?


by wilder on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

two words - stupid idea


by danfromny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:51:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

see my comment below on the reagan... (none / 0)

bush ticket...


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: see my comment below on the reagan... (none / 0)

I've been spreading your message borednow.

Also that if Sen. Clinton has such excellent creditials for the senate, that would dove tail nicely with one of the functions of a Vice President and that is to preside over the Senate. Be eyes and ears in the senate for the President.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:14:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree (none / 0)

But I worry not only about the election but about what would happen afterwards, with Clinton essentially sabotaging Obama at every turn just to win the spotlight. That would just be a complete disaster. I do hope Obama does not find himself obliged to put up with her.


by Fairy Tale on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:44:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Now that's (none / 0)

Stop with the negative feelings about the Dem nominee for prez.  He's way better than McSame. He will beat him soundly unless nay-sayers like you can't get over Hillary losing the primary race (of her own doing), and stay home or stupidly cross over and vote for Gramps.  

Get over the primary results.  Obama has taken the lead, will get the nomination and it's on to Nov!

P.S. I early voted for Hillary in CA, but I had my cry, now I'm ready to support Obama.


by citizensane on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:32:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Change with Experience? (2.00 / 2)

Color me jaded, but this seems like a recipe for disaster.

I agree with Ezra Klein (for once):

Will they be able to keep their sprawling universe of well-connected confidantes from leaking tales of their displeasure to the press? Will they want to? What happens when the first Time magazine cover comes out with Obama staring down the Clintons, and the tagline is, 'Who's Really Running the Country?' It's such an obvious story that it can be predicted, with almost perfect certainty, right now.


by bookish on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Change with Experience? (none / 0)

That's a good point.

Whether it happens that way or not, the media is going to be constantly looking for an angle.  And what about The Big Dog? etc.

It's just no good.  The ticket makes no sense.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:49:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

I totally agree.  The ticket doesn't make any sense.  Not to mention she would help to energize the Republican base just as much as if she were at the top of the ticket.  She doesn't bring a whole lot I'm afraid.

Having said that, I suppose there's always a chance she will be the VP candidate and I'm ready to go to the mat for her and Obama this fall!


End Conservatism
by nintendofanboy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

Please don't mix in the Muslim thing with the others, it's not the same thing.

And it's "hypocrites."

I really think Clinton should be at the top of the ticket.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:36:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

The two of them on the same ticket would only be able to work if she was at the top.  She destroys his message as VP, but he doesn't impact any message she had.  If they are going to force the ticket together, they might as well put her on top.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NOT HAPPENING...n/t (none / 0)


by tracey webb on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:38:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

Why not include the Muslim comment with the others? And does it mean you agree with my other 5 points?

By the way, only 42% of Democrats agree with you. 50% agree the Obama should be at the top. Consistently.


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:42:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

I see you know how to spell "hypocrites" - experienced?

"Hillary: The Glory of America???" Holy sh_t. HRC is what you see as Glory?


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

If they ended up on the same ticket, would be the only thing that would cause me to NOT vote for Hillary. That, to me, would be a total sell-out, and I would bet most Obamaites feel the same way.


by muggle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"deign?" (none / 0)

I think you meant "decide."


by McNasty on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:22:17 PM EST

Re: "deign?" (none / 0)

Yeah, really. What kind of horseshit is that? "Deign".


by danfromny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:53:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 5)

Two reasons against it:

First, it allows the GOP to attack Clinton using all the ammo they have saved up just for this.  It isn't as if her and Bill's sordid past has just gone away.  It hasn't gone away.  We haven't talked about that stuff much, b/c Obama has courteously stayed away from it.  The Republicans will not.  I don't want to have to talk about Whitewater ever again, and I'm sure you don't either.  If she's on the ticket, we will be.

Second, perhaps he has a hard time believing she would be pleasant to work with.  

Third, I think that after Cheney it's important to put the VP back in their place; a Clinton VP would make that much more difficult, and would invite all sorts of comparisons to the current bunch.  NOT what we're looking for this Fall.

Why do people assume that she would be effective at VP?


by Lawyerish on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:24:07 PM EST

Because she did it before? (none / 0)

Much of her experience argument rests on her leadership role as First Lady, so certainly she knows the ins and outs of the VP office.

But I simply can't see her (with Bill in tow) not being a distracting, if not derailing, presence.  It just won't happen, but don't let me stop the pontificating.


by McNasty on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:26:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because she did it before? (none / 0)

Something would have to be done with Bill, overseas, long-term.  Anyone on any ticket with Hillary Clinton would have to have assurances that The Big Dog will not interfere with the Administration, and we all know he can't help himself with meddling.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 2)

Exactly. If Hillary was on the ticket, I'd give you about 3-1 odds that she'd even make it to November. Too many skeletons in her closet. They'd eventually force her to drop off.


by Terrance Manley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:26:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

And at that point he is weak and not a fighter for throwing her under the bus.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

This argument drives me nuts. Do you think the GOP is going to hold back because HRC is or is not on the ticket.  Please.  It is it not whitewated it will be something else.  Do you think the GOP cares about facts.

These are the same people going around saying BO is a muslin.  And second we as a party need to do what is in the best interest of the democratic party and fuck what republicans think. Should we made decission because Rush will be meant to us.

And lastly i would rather HRC be on the ticket and have the GOP smearing her than BO. On the bottom of the ticket atttacks on her will be seen as piling on and sexest and personally i would love them to go after HRC as VP it takes some of the effort off of BO.

david


by giusd on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Like it or not, Ford won us the last national (none / 0)

election.

It's better for us to have Republicans be racist (which there is a ton of history to point at), than be sexist (is there history on that?)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:34:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

People are calling Obama a fabric? (none / 0)

This really IS the silly season...lol.


John McCain, John McCain
by Elsinora on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:36:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: People are calling Obama a fabric? (none / 0)

If I ever had doubts you were part of the tribe, that joke would have immediately put them to rest.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HAHAHAHA (none / 0)

Yes...they will FORGET all about, oh I don't know...Wright/Rezko/Ayers/"bitter-gate"/ "first time proud"...etc...etc...and just go after her, right?

Please name me the LAST TIME a VP either won or lost an election...ANY ELECTION...


by Nighttrain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:10:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

"Why do people assume that she would be effective at VP?"

Because VP's preside and work with the Senate.

If the folks in the Senate respect her and say she'll be an excellent senator, I guess they'll still say the same when she works with them as vice president.

You know when you move over to the executive branch you do count on your vice president to be your eyes and ears in the senate.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why would you assume... (none / 0)

I guess the same reason why you would assume he would make a better president...


by Nighttrain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket (2.00 / 1)

If she can't be at the top of the ticket then i'd like to see her as VP.

I can see some big advantages and some big problems.

The advantages are it would unify the party and lessen the number of defections to McCain, bring national security credibility, attract more women and get the Clinton machine fully behind Obama.

The problems i see are that McCain will be able to drag up everything she's said about Obama not being ready and use it to make the ticket look divided, they don't like each other personally, she doesn't really bring any states with her (but could help a lot in PA, OH, MO etc).

But bring on the dream ticket i say. These 2 candidates have energized millions of voters from different demographics, if we can marry Obama's coalition with Clinton's then we have a great chance of a blow out in November.


by liberalj on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:24:30 PM EST

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket (2.00 / 2)

"The problems i see are that McCain will be able to drag up everything she's said about Obama not being ready and use it to make the ticket look divided"

Exactly. Do you really think Hillary could stomach taking back her many attacks on Obama?


by Terrance Manley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket (none / 0)

Agree 100%.  I want someone who thinks that an Obama/Clinton ticket is a good idea to respond to this.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:37:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket (2.00 / 1)

There's problems with every VP choice. She would need to clearly state that she believes Obama is ready, that she wouldnt have accepted his VP nomination if she didn't think he was ready. She had her doubts but he proved her wrong.


by liberalj on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket (none / 0)

I suppose that might work.  Good to see a Clinton supporter acknowledge the problem by the way - it's not that we're opposed to the idea because we're pissed off that she said it.


by Jordache on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket (none / 0)

She said "I bring a lifetime of experience, Senator McCain brings a lifetime of experience, and Barack Obama brings a speech he gave."

Ok - so that was harsh!  But this is politics.  If Obama is the nominee, and if he selects Clinton as VP, Clinton will be forced to essentially eat those words and campaign as hard as possible for the ticket.  And Clinton is the preferred candidate of roughly 49% of the party (possibly over 50% by June 3rd) - so that endorsement carries some weight.  Would she ever do it?  I don't know - but if she does I think that is a major victory for Obama and a sign that the party can be unified for November.

If Obama picks someone else as VP, I don't think the Clintons will help him as much as they could, and I think Obama / McCain will be a very close race - I wouldn't be too surprised to see Obama lose.  I would be very surprised if the Dream Ticket lost.


by mikes101 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:54:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket (none / 0)

Okay. Your wish is granted.

  1. We should ignore what does or doesn't fire up the Republican base. The base Obama has problems with is the Democratic base. A unified Democratic base = victory. A split Democratic base = defeat. Simple as that.
  2. Presidential nominees have a long history of picking running mates who said bad things about them and with whom they didn't really get along. George HW Bush called Ronald Reagan's economic plan "voodoo economics." That didn't stop Reagan from picking him for VP. An odder couple than JFK and LBJ would be hard to imagine, but it worked. Every time, the opposing party has tried to make something out of it for the general election, but it never stuck. It won't stick this time, either.
  3. We can all argue til the cows come home that Hillary and Barack are too different, but the fact of the matter is that, on policy, they are basically the same. The differences between them are largely ones of personality and style, and I happen to believe that they are complementary. Each one of them appeals in different ways to different people, and that's a good thing.
  4. Sorry to burst bubbles, but the folks who say that choosing Hillary takes away the anti-war and "good judgment" argument vis a vis McCain. They are wrong. Barack and Hillary both want to get out of Iraq and they don't differ dramatically on how they would do it. McCain wants to stay there for 100 years. People aren't so stupid that they can't see that. And the "good judgment" argument is over. It made a lot of people give Barack serious consideration in the beginning of the primary season, but what people are interested in now is, "what are you going to do about it now that we're there?"

I've probably missed a few points, but I think that gives you an idea of why I think an Obama/Clinton ticket would be a really good idea.

Peace.


Rules for Life: Do not annoy others; Do not be too easily annoyed.
by Not the only Dem in KS on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The difference between those two instances... (none / 0)

and now is the huge cache of video of Hillary attacking Obama.  There was no such video of the harsh things Johnson said about Kennedy or vice versa.  And the harshest thing Bush said against Reagan was "voodoo economics."  This time is different.  If Hillary is the nominee (perhaps even if she isn't), the amount of ads with her attacking Obama is going to be enormous.  I just don't think it will be helpful, if October is full of Hillary taking back all the negative things about Obama.  The focus in October should be the presidential nominee and it won't be if Hillary is the VP nominee.  Otherwise I think it's fine.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:22:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The difference between those two instances... (none / 0)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. However many ads or videos there are, I just don't think it will make any significant difference. People who are for Obama now will vote for him regardless; people who like Hillary and are okay with Obama will vote for the ticket regardless; people who like Hillary but are very unhappy with Obama are more likely to come around if she is on the ticket; people who hate them both will vote for McCain. Who is there who would be inclined to vote for Obama but would be dissuaded by these ads?


Rules for Life: Do not annoy others; Do not be too easily annoyed.
by Not the only Dem in KS on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:41:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All the peple who will make up their mind... (none / 0)

between when we have a nominee and November.  Having video of the VP candidate bashing the pres candidate is never good.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket (none / 0)

When was the last time a Presidential candidate won or lost an election because of the VP choice?

And since when are we so AFRAID of Republicans coming out because she's on the ticket?  


by Nighttrain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:23:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oy. (2.00 / 3)

Hillary Clinton is a Republican turnout machine.

Take any problems that McCain would have turning out a depressed base and flush them down the toilet.

I HOPE TO GOD that Hillary herself turns down the job in a way that keeps her supporters in the fold.


by Terrance Manley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:25:09 PM EST

Re: Oy. (2.00 / 1)

I completely agree.  I don't like the visceral conservative hatred of Clinton, but I recognize it.  If Obama hadn't been leading in pledged delegates since Iowa, we would've heard much more about this.  The silence has been an implicit concomitant to Limbaugh's Operation Chaos--trying to weaken Obama as much as possible to prolong the race.  Talking out loud about how they hate Clinton wouldn't have helped Republicans in this effort.

If, on the other hand, the VP nod goes to Wes Clark, Republicans can attempt to trash his military credentials at their peril.


by deminva on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:34:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oy. (none / 0)

Sadly, the one thing that will hurt Wes Clark is his jewish problem. Which is BS, but some people believe it...


by Terrance Manley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What Jewish problem? (none / 0)

Did he say something stupid or something?


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:25:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Jewish problem? (none / 0)

Yeah it was a silly gaffe - something about Jewish interests pushing the US into the Iraq war. On it's face it's sort of true, but it's not something you say.

But who knows?


by Terrance Manley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well I disagree with your assessment... (none / 0)

that it is true, but it would probably preclude him from being picked on the ticket.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well I disagree with your assessment... (none / 0)

Well it's true in the sense that there were large Jewish activist groups pushing for the Iraq war (just like there were other activist groups pushing for it from the left to the right). That's all I meant.

What's not true is that they had any undo influence greater than anyone else (which was implied in Clark's comment and Jim Moran's later). That's just sillyness, and it's a classic trait of anti-semitism (the assumption that Jews have tons of power and are pulling the strings).

Though - and this is a more subtle point - the intertwined nature of the Republican Party, the Religious Right and hawkish pro-Israel interests sometimes makes for strange bedfellows. The Republicans love to play the Israel card to bring Jewish voters over to their more hawkish position on other issues. If you (generally) have a more hawkish/defensive position towards Islamic fundamentalists (as many Jews no doubt do - and who can blame them?), then it's not a big surprise that you'd be more inclined to favor a war in Iraq.

At any rate - being that my dumbass supported the war back in 2003 (I trusted Hillary Clinton's judgement) - I can understand how people can get carried away with these things!


by Terrance Manley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:51:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think you are partially right and partially... (none / 0)

wrong.  There are some hawkish pro-Israel groups (like AIPAC) who have been pushing this war, but I think more and more these groups are becoming divergent from American Jewish mainstream.  And while there is still an instinct in American Jews to be more hawkish with regards to Islamic fundamentalism, I think you'll see that that opinion is becoming less welcome in the Jewish community.  Moreover, more Jews opposed the Iraq in 2003 than supported it.  It was just that several Jewish institutions, like AIPAC, supported the war.

I see why it would be confusing b/c you see Lieberman and these major institutions supporting these hawkish positions.  And they get all the media coverage.  But I think of all the Jews in the Senate and the House, the majority opposed the war.  I may be wrong on that though.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Agreed, n/t (none / 0)


Democrat for the democratic nominee
by KLRinLA on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:12:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oy. (none / 0)

hey Terrance Manley.

Save the draaaahmmaaa for your mama.

:D

Love ya,

12 digs


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:20:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

You can't "buy" off Clinton supporters that easily.  The idea!  Yuck!


by bach on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:25:21 PM EST

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

Good lord. If putting her on the ticket doesn't work, what would?


by Terrance Manley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

Look, we've lost, fair and square, and although I personally feel that Obama is a deeply flawed and ultimately unelectable candidate, I will get out there and hustle for him because the alternative is inconceivable.  If Hillary knows what's good for her, she will refuse the offer (you know that Obama will be taken into a room and forced to make the offer, right?), and give up the idea of being President.  At her age, it was now or never, and apparently it's gonna be never.  She has a long and historic career ahead of her in the Senate, indeed she will be the heiress to the progressive legacy of Ted Kennedy.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:40:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

Yeah, I think this is about right.  Clinton doesn't stand to gain all that much by being Obama's VP.  The optics of a unity ticket would be great, at least at first, but she could accomplish so much more in the Senate, particularly if the Dems have 55 seats as they as supposed to after this year.

Plus, my gut tells me that this race will be won or lost in Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada.  The folks out West are sort of the "other minority" that never seems to get a candidate for Prez.  McCain may fit well enough to incite turnout in those states.  A VP pick from the Interior West would help Obama, I think.


by the mollusk on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thats how I see it also (none / 0)

I can imagine Hillary as President (though I prefer Obama), but I think she would be more effective in the Senate or as a Governor than VP.

Also, when you consider that the VP slot is usually considered a queue for the presidency 8 years later, what does that say about Obama's rejection of the DLC and embracing of the 50 state strategy?  Do we resign ourselves to reverting back to DLCism in eight years?  I'm not saying that makes Clinton a bad pick, only that it is a consideration I've not heard any of the pundits talking about.

Just a thought.


by protothad on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think he'll be forced to make the offer (none / 0)

I think most of the old pols in power have covertly decided that they don't like hillary's backers.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think so (none / 0)

Based on what. LOL Have you polled the "old pols"?

The Gallop pol cited says 55% of Democrats AND Democratic leaning INDEPENDENTS. Please note the influence of Independents. They don't seem to mind Sen. Clinton or her "baggage" and they don't have any great overwhelming ties with the Democrats. They don't have to so that's why they call them "Independents". Outside of the influence of "Old Pols".

I keep hearing how Sen. Obama is courting Independents. But to tell truth, from what I've seen here, seems like Sen. Obama's supporters can take 'em or leave 'em. So who is running the show in Sen. Obama's camp? Which is it. Inclusive or not?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:14:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like to be inclusive... (none / 0)

but I wonder, honestly, where we get more votes. From red republicans, who like obama's practicality and 'don't flip over the boat' style, or from dem-leaning independents.

I don't think that any of the old pols will care as much about polls.

I think it's pretty obvious, from how scrupulously neutral the big cheeses are being, that they support Obama (dean especially, as we know he has a bit of a beef with the 50+1 strategy)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:35:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like to be inclusive... (none / 0)

"...I think it's pretty obvious, from how scrupulously neutral the big cheeses are being, that they support Obama (dean especially, as we know he has a bit of a beef with the 50+1 strategy)"- Rising Tide

Since when has Howard Dean had a problem with a "50 state strategy". During the midterm elections he was a supporter of a "50 state" strategy. He received critisim for giving money to candidates in states that other Democrats said were very Red State.

Please support your assertion that Dean would be against donating money to all states when he did so in the Mid Term election. With success I might add. There was surprise when the Democrats gained seats in the Senate then.

Not attacking you, just very surprised. Did I miss something?

Thanks.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

Again.

More Drraaaahmmmmaaa.

Save the drama.

Although all things concidered. I don't blame a Sen. Clinton's supporter for saying this. They have been asked to quit the primaries since they started.

So...


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:23:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 1)

VP isn't a dealbreaker for me, he chooses who he chooses.

If choosing Clinton will bring unity to the Democratic party, then fine.  But I doubt she wants it, and I doubt that it would make the more ardent Clinton supporters accept Obama as the nominee.

So, what about it, Clinton supporters?  If Obama is the nominee, do you want Clinton as his veep?  And will that cause you to support and vote for the ticket?


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:25:36 PM EST

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

Yes, I would want Clinton as VP.  And yes, that would cause me to support the ticket.

There are other scenarios that would also cause me to support Obama - and I certainly won't vote for McCain - but right now I'm planning on writing in Hillary and reserving judgment.


by mikes101 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:01:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

You go right ahead and write in Hillary.  That will help put the country back on course.


End Conservatism
by nintendofanboy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:40:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 2)

Fantastic! Of course most Clinton supporters would want Obama to choose Clinton because that's who they want on the ticket no matter what. The rest of the voters are unlikely to know the name of any other national dem in contention, let alone wieght their long-term strengths.

Obama does NOT have to choose Clinton. He has to choose the best Veep to compliment him, and win the general.

Choosing Clinton would be a move to win the Primary. But that's over.

Choosing Clinton would be nice for a while, but she carries so much baggage, both from her time with Bill in office and from the Primary ... why should he?

Every ad the GOP would have to run would be: "Obama's VP on Obama: He sucks!" and they could run whatever clips of Hillary scolding "shame on you" or "the heaves will open up" and Obama gets to spend the general dealing with that -- and whatever Bill ends up saying to some random small town that implies Obama is a child molester.

Obama needs to choose a veep that best compliments his vision. Because the election is only part of it -- you want a veep who will be a good veep too. Forget past animosity or what have you. If Hillary is that person, great. But I've seen nothing to suggest that.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:25:53 PM EST

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

Hear that sound Lettuce.

That is the sound of the doors being slammed.

By Sen. Clinton supporters.

Who've had it up to their eyeballs with being told that their opinions don't count.

Good bye Sen. Clinton supporters.

Oh and that other sound you here.

That is the sound of Sen. McCain supporters.

Shutting the doors on Sen. Obama's campaign in the general election. Not because of Sen. Clinton. Oh no.

But because of the Sen. Obama supporters who called folks idiots for even entertaining the notion of voting for Sen. McCain.

There are my darling only two choices in the General Election.

I ask ya' now.

If someone asked for your vote while spitting on your shoes? Would you vote for them?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:29:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (2.00 / 5)

Clinton has high negatives we really haven't seen pressed at yet. Give me ONE article about Barack attacking a scandal from the Clinton years. Do it. You can't find one, because he hasn't. the REPUBLICANS will, though, and Obama will have to deal with that. The first rule of picking a vice president is DON'T pick one with baggage.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:26:04 PM EST

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

The FIRST rule of picking a VO is to unite the party.

As to baggage?  It really doesn;t matter much, the GOP attack machine has baggage on everybody.

Watch what happens to Obama's favorables when they get thru with him, never mind his VP.

Ther eason whhy Obama didn't use the "baggage" is simply that no one cares about it any more.

It happened a long time ago, and it's run its course.  Everybody knows that Whitewater did not produce a sigle Clinton indictment or arrest, that  Bill and Hillary have never been indicted or arrested or convicted of anything, despite hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars spent.

Hell, when Bill left office, his approval was in the 60's!  So much for baggage.  I would worry more about Obama if his free pass in the Press wears out.  You Obama people thought it so unfair that they almost took him down because of his Pastor?  Just wait.

As to that ONE article?  The Obama campaign has consistently launched personal attacks on her based on every piece of scurrilous slime they could find.  She was called by Obama or his surrogates "cold" "calculating" "lacking scruples" "do anything to win" "emasculating" "shrill" "race-baiting" "hard" "driven by ambition" and on and on and on.

Obama will be privileged to have someone as well-rounded, powerful, and supremely helpful as a VP:  Remember if we don't take a supermajority in the Senate we are headed for a LOT of stalling, filibustering, and obstructionism, and Hillary could be the key to breaking the GOP in the Senate.

I hope he doesn't offer it to her:  I will be happy to see his Administration floundering around trying to put together coherent and effective policies for the American people.


by dembluestates on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:09:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

I know it is hard for people that have been ok with Clinton's inconsistent campaign messages to understand.  But Clinton cannot be VP and Obama be consistent with his campaign.  That is a bad thing when you are trying to win over independents  and left leadning Republicans.  Clinton is a 51% candidate at best, he should not want to attach himself to that, or any theme her campaign has had this election cycle.  Do we want to try to win the country with a VP that thinks only about 16 states count?


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Clinton Ticket = The Will Of The People (none / 0)

I don't think Obama has been consistent in his campaign.

He has rather changed messages several times, from "Hope" to "Change" to "Unity" back to "Change".

As to Left-leaning Republicans, Obama's branded as "the most Liberal" of all the Senators.

Hillary is a far more likel