MyDD :: All Roads Lead to Denver with Poll

All Roads Lead to Denver with Poll

by LadyEagle, Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:47:24 AM EST

Sen. Obama's acceptance of Jack Johnson's support and even calling it helpful has made the case for Sen. Clinton to take her case to the Democratic Convention in Denver. Earlier in the process, the Obama campaign was squealing so loudly about Ickes trying to get pledged delegate to switch that one would think it was the end of the world. His win at all cost mentality has now begun to haunt him.

He has gone back to wearing a poll tested flag pin, with not one, but two flags. He went back on his IL vote for the gas tax so he could call Hillary a panderer. He stated that all states matter, but he is not planning an election night speech tonight to that the people in West Virginia who voted for him. While I do understand the strategy, it smacks of politics as usual. Where is the new politics he promised?

Sen. Clinton is not as far behind as Kennedy was when he went to the convention. She and Sen. Obama are extremely close. They both need superdelegates to arrive at the magic number. Plus ther is nothing in the rules from taking the fight all the way to the convention. Obama opened the door to a challenge which I hope she accepts.

Let them leave it all on the floor in Denver.

Poll

Votes: 35
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Tags: HRC, BHO, DNC, Pledged Delegates, 2008, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama (all tags)

Permalink :: 26 Comments :: Post a Comment

How'd that work out for us when Kennedy (none / 0)

did it?

I'm ignoring all the other whack shite you wrote. Just answer that one question.

My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!

by RLMcCauley on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:51:16 AM EST

Re: How'd that work out for us when Kennedy (2.00 / 1)

I don't think you can blame Carter's loss in 80 on Kennedy.

by AnnC on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:05:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How'd that work out for us when Kennedy (none / 0)

No, that's true. Carter likely would have lost anyway. But the Democrats have never won a convention-battle election.

But what about 1960, you say? Well, take a look at the history books. If Mayor Daley hadn't gotten a little creative with the counting, President Nixon would've started eight years earlier.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:16:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This comment about 1960 (none / 0)

always make me mad.

You understand that Kennedy won still have won had he lost Illinois, don't you.

by fladem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:46:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This comment about 1960 (none / 0)

In the same manner Bush did, yeah. But it was an awfully close thing, don't forget that. Indeed, until 2000, it was the closest thing ever.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No!! (none / 0)

Your wrong.

1960 was no where NEAR the closest in terms of the electoral college. And unlike 2000, flipping one state would not have mattered.

You are comparing an apple with an orange.

by fladem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No!! (none / 0)

It would have brought us an election where, once again, the popular vote winner didn't win the electoral college. It could've pushed Illinois over, which would have evened the race out, but still it'd have gone to JFK.

My point is that convention fights are bad things. '60 was still won by the skin of our teeth.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (none / 0)

but there were three states close to flipping that could've thrown the election to Nixon.

Illinois was decided by .18% of the vote, or about 9,000 votes out of 4.7 million cast.

Missouri by .52% of the vote, or about 10,000 votes out of 1.9 million cast.

New Jersey was decided by .8% or 22,000 votes out of 2.75 million cast.

All in Kennedy's favor, flip those three states, about 41,000 votes, and Nixon had the election.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:39:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All Roads Lead to Denver with Poll (none / 0)

Your poll is missing the "No, as her campaign said, there will be a nominee by June 15th" option.

John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."

by Fuzzy Dunlop on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:51:49 AM EST

This sentence says a lot (2.00 / 1)

I will skip your negative smearing of Obama and focus on this statement: "Plus ther is nothing in the rules from taking the fight all the way to the convention."

Well, no kidding. Stating that it's okay by the rules isn't much of anything. No one has made the procedural argument that Clinton is prohibited from taking this to the convention.

But guess what? Even when something is okay by the rules, it can STILL BE THE WRONG CHOICE.

In this case, there are substantive reasons for NOT taking this primary fight to the convention. Those reasons are obvious and numerous.

I think some Clinton supporters think that the discussion ends at "the rules say it's okay!" The discussion only starts there. What we need to do as a party is determine IF THE FIGHT IS WORTH IT, from a substantive, strategic perspective.

by Slim Tyranny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:54:19 AM EST

Re: This sentence says a lot (none / 0)

Please point me to a non-factual statement concerning Sen. Obama in the post. It is extremely sad when any comment that's not positive for a candidate is considered a smear.

"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."

by LadyEagle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:52:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All Roads Lead to Denver with Poll (none / 0)

Wow- some truly deep insights you make there. But didn't you forget that Maryland isn't one of the United States that Matter.

I dunno, but were I one of the delegates/superdelegates from Iowa, Minnesota, Washington, Virginia, Maryland, Nebraska, Kansas, Idaho, Utah, North Dakota, Colorado, South Carolina, etc, I might take some offense that I "don't matter" to Hillary Clinton. Perhaps this is the beginning of a movement on this issue.

Ever heard of karma?

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:57:20 AM EST

Just today, James Carville said... (none / 0)

...Obama's very likely to be our nominee, though he thinks Clinton should stay in until the last contest in June.

When her high-ranking supporters are closing the curtains, it's a sign this probably isn't going to go on for much longer.

should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?

by Firewall on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:02:42 AM EST

Obama's hypocrisy (none / 0)

continues...

by grlpatriot on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:20:06 AM EST

BS (none / 0)

Obama did not call this guy and convince him to switch.

-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:54:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Right, sure he didn't (none / 0)

by grlpatriot on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:00:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ah yes the wild baseless alegations (none / 0)

need not be backed up with proof.

Lets just pack an all go home because just saying stuff is same as facts and proof.

-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:29:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All Roads Lead to Denver with Poll (none / 0)

Seems there is one set of rules for Clinton and one for Obama. It is ok for a pledged delegate to switch to him, but not to her. It is also ok for him to win by having the help of super-delegated, but not for her to "steal" the election with SD thereby overturning the will of the people.

I am so thankful that he has enough votes to win the election without some Hillary supporters.

"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."

by LadyEagle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:38:26 AM EST

this is crap and you know it (none / 0)

Obama did not call this guy up and try to convince him to switch. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.

I am sure if anything Obama does not want pledged delegates switching because that just sets a baaadd precedence.

And the argument of stealing refers to SDs overturning pledged voters lead. That is not the case in Obama's situation. If there were no SDs Obama is still winning.

-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:49:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All Roads Lead to Denver with Poll (none / 0)

Who said that it's ok for the pledged delegate to switch? I haven't seen one credible person advocate that position.

On the other hand, I've seen numerous diaries and posts from Clinton supporters making the supposedly deep insight that "they don't vote until August, so anything's possible."

by rfahey22 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All Roads Lead to Denver with Poll (none / 0)

Please highlight the portion of the post that said he called the guy. He had no problem saying that this was helpfl to his campaign. If it is a new kind of politics, and his campaign was against pledged delegates switching a few weeks ago what makes it ok now?

"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."

by LadyEagle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:54:24 AM EST

Re: All Roads Lead to Denver with Poll (none / 0)

We are missing the "Big Picture" here. HRC can take it all the way to the Convention Floor if she wants, because rules state that she can, and she will lose. The bigger problem with this is that The Republicans would love it even more than HRC for her to take it all the way to The Convention Floor. McCain's already got a 3 month head of steam in campaigning, our candidate will be backlogged 6 months at that point. Not enough time to expose McCain for what he really is. The Republicans are loving every minute of this. The longer it goes on the more insulated their candidate becomes.

John McCain: Everyones nowhere man

by johnny sexton on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:08:51 PM EST

disgusting and counterproductive (none / 0)

go to the ReThug sites to post this anti-democratic bullshit.

the time to rise has been engaged.

by catchaz on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:59:58 PM EST

Re: disgusting and counterproductive (none / 0)

Seems like as long as someone doesn't share your view they are Republican. Great day for the Democratic Party when dissent is no longer allowed.

"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."

by LadyEagle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This isn't dissent (none / 0)

this is hell bent on losing the race for the Democrats. "If Hillary can't win, then Obama must lose"

that puts you in the league with the Republicans.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't dissent (none / 0)

As I said before, it is great that he has enough folks to win without the rest of us.

"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."

by LadyEagle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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