Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In

I give you two reasons why the Obama campaign probably does, and all Obama supporters should , want Hillary Clinton to continue to campaign for the Democratic nomination:

Suffolk U poll of 600 Likely West Virginia voters, May 10-11, MoE +/- 4%

Hillary Clinton 60
Barack Obama 24

Research 2000 poll of 500 Likely Kentucky voters, May 7-9, MoE +/- 4.5%

Hillary Clinton 58
Barack Obama 31

As The LA Times noted yesterday:

Times political writer Mark Z. Barabak had an interesting conversation with Tad Devine, a Democratic strategist not involved with a candidate this time. Counterintuitively, the way he sees the inevitable delegate math in favor of Barack Obama, the worst thing that could happen to the Illinois senator now is what so many party members are clamoring for: Hillary Rodham Clinton to drop out.

Why?

Because with her name still on the ballots, she'd be very likely to win in West Virginia anyway. And maybe Kentucky too, given the demographics in both places. And possibly Puerto Rico as well.

How would that look if at the end of the Democratic race the winning candidate with clearly the most delegates and popular votes went down to defeat against a candidate who isn't in the contest anymore?



Display:


Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Agreed - it's better for him for her to stay.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:06:33 PM EST

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 4)

Clarification: So long as Clinton and Obama refrain from willful polarization of the party.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:07:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

I agree with both.  

John Edwards expressed it well on Face the Nation:


by TomP on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:14:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 3)

Here's why Clinton should stay in:


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:31:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 4)

Compared to Obama


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:32:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

PREACH IT!

Another agonizing close loss?

I don't think so.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 5)

I refuse to join losing former presidential candidates -- Kerry, Kennedy, Richardson, Dodd and Carter -- in endorsing another loser.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Meh. These polls change.  Hillary isn't free of glaring negatives herself.


by mikeinsf on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:17:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

facts suck for Obama (2.00 / 1)

so avoid them?

The fact is that these EC maps have had Obama losing consistently for months and Hillary winning.  


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:27:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (1.00 / 1)

"I refuse to join losing former presidential candidates -- Kerry, Kennedy, Richardson, Dodd and Carter -- in endorsing another loser."

WTF!!??!?!

hey KNOWVox !!!????!?! NEWS FLASH  You backed HRC  Guess what she is another loser so there!!!!


John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"
by wellinformed on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:31:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 3)

Newsflash: Obama doesn't have the votes to put this away, either, and he's going to get his butt kicked tomorrow in KY and W VA.

I support the only candidate who can win in November --Hillary Clinton.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:34:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

How can Hillary Clinton win in November when she isn't even going to be on the ballot?

That's like saying that I'd be making $500K next year if I had only gotten that $500K per year job I applied for.

Hillary can't win in November.  She's not going to be on the ballot, so therefore she can't win.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda means zilch right now.  I think Howard Dean coulda won in November 2004.  I don't cry about it because he lost the primaries fair and square, as HRC is about to.

Regarding the original blog post... I agree completely with Todd - PROVIDED that things remain civil and the likely nominee (Obama) isn't trashed by his opponent in the final weeks here.


by Obamaphile on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:00:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 1)

How can Hillary Clinton win in November when she isn't even going to be on the ballot?

Where's a copy of the ballot with Obama's name on it?


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:12:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Denial, thy name is KnowVox.


by citizensane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

We are in incredibly new territory here with both our candidates, first AA, first woman.  Bush with lowest ratings in history.  An oldest candidate on the other side.  Tons of new Democratic registrations, and an economy that is getting set to rival the 30s in tank.    

I don't think anything is predictable at this point except that the strongest of the blue states will stay blue and the strongest red, red.  I think the rest of the map can evolve in ways that might surprise us.


by mady on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:24:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

Which is exactly the reason we can't settle for a candidate who refuses to support universal health care and leaves out 15 million, votes "present" on the reproductive rights of women, and will implode once his brief, unproductive political career comes under scrutiny.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Sigh.


by mady on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

That's exactly the response of the 15 million folks Obama neglects in his health care plan -- as well as the women whose reproductive rights he'd compromise in the name of political expediency.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

You DO realize that PP has no problem with his voting record, right?  Do yourself a favor and educate yourself so you stop spreading falsehoods about Obama compromising reproductive rights.


by ChrisKaty on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:00:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

You do realize that the Illinois National Organization for Women (NOW) said this about Obama:

During Senator Obama's 2004 senate campaign, the Illinois NOW PAC did not recommend the endorsement of Obama for U.S. Senate because he refused to stand up for a woman's right to choose and repeatedly voted `present' on important legislation.

As a State Senator, Barack Obama voted `present' on seven abortion bills, including a ban on 'partial birth abortion,' two parental notification laws and three 'born alive' bills.  In each case, the right vote was clear, but Senator Obama chose political cover over standing and fighting for his convictions.

"When we needed someone to take a stand, Senator Obama took a pass," said Grabenhofer. "He wasn't there for us then and we don't expect him to be now."

illinoisnow.org


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

And regarding PP:

ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: When Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., voted "present," rather than "yes" or "no" on a handful of controversial abortion votes in the Illinois state senate, he did so with the explicit support of the president and CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

"We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes," Pam Sutherland, the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, told ABC News. "We worked with him specifically on his strategy.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2007/07/obama-abortion-.html


by ChrisKaty on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:31:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama on Abortion (none / 0)

N.O.W. in Obama's home state said:

To be clear, voting "present" on those bills was a strategy that IL NOW did not support. At that time, we made it clear to the legislators that we disagreed with the strategy. We wanted legislators to take a stand against the harmful anti-choice bills being brought to the floor of the Illinois State Senate.

Voting "present" does not demonstrate leadership and does not send the clarion signal that one is unwavering in their support of a woman's right to choose. IL NOW knew that those bills were unacceptable to women..... Senator Obama... has not taken leadership on the issue at the same level that Hillary has.

[Obama supporters] assert that the strategy to vote "present" was devised to give political cover to legislators in conservative districts. State Senator Barack Obama did not represent a conservative district and he could have voted "no" with little negative consequence in his district.

www.illinoisnow.org


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:52:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

it's an important point, Americans want change and it would be the best time to go for the best changes we can get.  Barack once wanted single payer and in his heart he may still.  We won't get there until the insurance companies make normal profits, not obscene profits and that's from all of us being insurance, no one being denied, and the insurance all being comprehensive. Barack's plan is cheaper because there can be those high deductibles and co-payments that make insurance affordable only if you never use it.  it is the urgency of now.  Knowvox is right on this.


by anna shane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

That's one cherry-picked statistical analysis. There are dozens out there, each saying different things.


by KyleJRM on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nope (none / 0)

this is an average of all the polls. Just look at the counters on mydd.  Obama has been losing the EC vote for MONTHS.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:31:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

I don't get it. You think that's representative of what it'll be like 6 months from now or something?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:54:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

The idea that McCain is going to win Michigan is ridiculous.  Truly.  Not in a million years.


by Lawyerish on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:00:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

That's not what the evidence suggests:

Michigan: McCain Leads Obama, Tied with Clinton

Michigan has voted Democratic in the last four Presidential elections. The 5 before that they went Republican. Now they are considered a swing state. The results of the latest Rasmussen poll show McCain and Clinton tied at 44% and McCain leading Obama 45 to 44%.

In the McCain/Obama match up, 6% said they would vote for a different candidate and 5% are uncertain. In the McCain/Clinton match up 9% said they would vote for another candidate and 4% are uncertain. McCain does better in Michigan than the current President who gets a 54% disapproval rating and a 32% good or excellent one.

What about the all important cross over vote? In the McCain/Clinton match up, McCain would get 10% of the Democratic voters and Clinton would get 12 % of the Republican.. With the independent voters, McCain would get 58%, Clinton 30%. In the McCain/Obama match up, McCain would get 17% of the Democratic vote and Obama would get 11% of the Republican. With the independents, McCain would get 50% and Obama 37%. Clinton does much better against McCain with Republicans and Independents than Obama and that is what makes the difference in the match ups. They are pretty close with the Democratic voters, but Clinton comes out in the lead here too getting 74% to Obama's 70%.

http://www.politicallore.com/election-20 08/michigan-mccain-leads-obama-tied-with -clinton/285


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:15:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

if you think these polls will stick for six months?


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:20:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 3)

Once the Rehug swiftboat machine gives Obama the once over, it will be much worse.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:21:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

so you choose your candidate out of fear of the right wing?

Yikes.  That is how we ended up with Kerry in the first place...


by gil44 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:29:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

No, I don't fear the rightwing. I fear Obama's political inexperience and vulnerability in the GE.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:37:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

And yet, with all this experience and stuff that you claim Hillary has over Obama, she lost to him. Odd that.


by elvigy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:46:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

Um, he hasn't won, and she hasn't lost.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

So if that happens, you'll concede the point?

I doubt that - what argument are you actually making?


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Worse for McCain, you mean.  Their attack machine isn't going to work on him in the slightest.

I just can't understand why we have such wussies as yourself in the Dem party.  I mean, you sound afraid of the Republicans.  I'm not afraid of them and you shouldn't be either.


by Lawyerish on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:31:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 1)

I can't understand why many Obama supporters are such wusses that they expect everyone who disagrees with them to fall down and play dead. McCain won't cave and neither will Hillary. Get used to the Majors.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Check the scoreboard wuss.


Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."
by brimur on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:56:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 1)

I did, and the game ain't over.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:01:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

No, but she's down 28 points, Obama's got possession, and there's 6 seconds left on the clock.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Commentators said the same thing about Kansas, and they walked away with the NCAA Championship.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

I respect your support for your candidate, but to maintain credibility you should acknowledge the quite unique difficulty of her position. I'm not one of those Obama supporters who thinks she should withdraw. None of my damn business. But it doesn't mean she's any more likely to win.


Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."
by brimur on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:07:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

This doesn't even make sense.


by Lawyerish on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:17:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 1)

Lots of things don't make sense to lawyers.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Hahahahahaha. That's your best evidence? Do you know what statistical signficance is? You're talking about a 1 point difference in a poll with a margin of error of at least 4 times that. Man, do you need to learn something about polling.


Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."
by brimur on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:55:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

That's the most recent data. But feel free to show me where and how Obama kicks butt in Michigan.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:02:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

The same poll. McCain is leading by 1 point with all the shit flying in this primary? He's in trouble.


Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."
by brimur on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

Are you kidding? McCain hasn't even begun to attack Obama.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:19:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

And Obama hasn't begun to attack McCain, wuss.


Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."
by brimur on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:53:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Really? LOL


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Know Vox,

Get off your f-ing high horse and quite trying to dominate this thread. Here is the latest from pollster.com
Michigan
McCain +0.4% over Obama
McCain +1.5% over Clinton
http://www.pollster.com/

And by the way, Obama is leading McCain again in PA.

http://the-independent13.blogspot.com/


by tomanderson13 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol (none / 0)

that is one poll in one state.  Nice cherry picking.  Look a the EC results and face it, Obama can't win in november and no amount of dreaming about red states is going to change that.  And Obama hasn't even been attacked by the right wing smear machine yet.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Anybody analyzing general election polls for a candidate with an active primary underway has too much time on his or her hands.  The general election polls at this point are meaningless.  Make as many little maps as you like.  


by Headlight on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 3)

Amen to that!  Lighten up everyone.  Support your candidate to the end, but "thou shall not bad-mouth a fellow Dem!"  I like her staying in (I was a supporter, now ready to back Obama).  She helps the numbers coming to vote go way up.  Between both candidates, our registrations have exceeded expectations.  This is doom to the Repubs!  Take heart, Hillary supporters, she will prove to be the good Dem she is and she will be out campaigning for Obama and I believe with both Clintons helping, Obama will win states many of you claim he won't.  

Make no mistake, Hillary is a Dem first.  Of course she wants to win, but she doesn't want to hurt the party.  Can you die-hard supporters say the same?  Time to heal.  Get ready to support Obama and reclaim the W.H.!


by citizensane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:19:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

Take heart, Obama supporters! Hillary is going to win this! Obama will then prove to be the good Dem he is and both he and his wife will be out campaigning for Hillary!

But I'm not holding my breath.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 3)

Especially after watching Michelle's performance here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp_7nnIvW JM


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:37:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

You're funny. The person who's winning will be out there supporting the campaign that's proven itself to be inept and unable to manage it's own cash flow. :)


by Yalin on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, let's talk about campaign ineptness (2.00 / 3)

From Jake Tapper today:

Obama's Inability to Hire Good Help Rears Its Head ... Again

We started covering Sen. Barack Obama's inability to hire good staffers in June 2007, when he blamed staffers for some opposition research trying to link Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, to outsourcing in India; for injecting some venom in the David Geffen/Hillary Clinton fight; and for missing an event with firefighters in New Hampshire.

In December, we noted again that Obama was blaming the answers on a 1996 questionnaire on a staffer; and was blaming his touring with "cured" ex-gay gospel singer Donnie McClurkin (which antagonized gays and lesbians) on bad vetting by his staff.

Those five buck-passing incidents were apparently not enough.

Yesterday, in an interesting New York Times look at Obama's rise in Chicago politics, we learned that in 2004 some Jewish supporters became alarmed to learn that in a questionnaire Obama refrained from denouncing Yasir Arafat, or from expressing strong support for Israel's security fence....

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:18:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, let's talk about campaign ineptness (none / 0)

So one incident from 2004, one from 1996 (12 years ago!) and one from 2007? That's inept?

Hillary is $20,000,000 in the hole, has lost a majority of the delegates, superdelegates, states and popular vote. But Obama is inept?


by elvigy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, let's talk about campaign ineptness (none / 0)

Jack Trapper on that site has been so utterly worthless it is not funny.

He had no staff in 1996, what he had was provided by the group whos questionaire it was, before the questionaire was filled out.

some Jewish supporters...became alarmed...
If I got "some" Americans who thought Hillary Clinton was the Antichrist together, would that make it on his blog?

And wasn't Yasir Arafat's death bad for Israel? I mean HAMAS won the last elections.

And the security fence is not even universally accepted in Israel, I think some courts in that country ruled against sections of it, and I read somehwere it is going to end up keeping farmers from fields and livestock from water.

Do you just randomly post garbage from what ever yellow source you find?  Should I go back into news archives from the Clinton Presidency and post news articles from that time? Since Richard Mellon Schaife endorsed Hillary can I go back and get his old stuff about Hillary out?

I would troll rate you if this site didn't have trolls all over it's recommended list these days.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, let's talk about campaign ineptness (2.00 / 3)

Sounds like you've got a beef with Jake. Get used to it. If your guy's our nominee, things will get A LOT worse.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:10:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (1.00 / 1)

I am a Hillary supporter, but a DEM FIRST.  I am also a realist.  She is losing the nomination.  He is winning it.  You need to go through the stages of loss before you will find your DEM roots: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.  Me thinks you are still in denial.  Once you've covered the stages, you'll come around and I believe be ready to support Obama.  No?  Then I hope you like McSame.

By the way, you want to talk about spouse's communication errors? "that depends what the definition of "is" is"  "Jesse Jackson won SC too"  You shouldn't go there unless you want to GO there. Those are the little gaffs that make it easier for me to jump on Obama's band wagon.  I am so tired of the Repubs and the press bringing up all of Clintons' foibles. The few of Michele Obama's are refreshing.


by citizensane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

Methinks we haven't counted all the votes. And when we do, Hillary will win.

Consider this letter from members of Congress in Swing States:

Pennsylvania was not just a victory for Hillary Clinton. It was also a wake- up call for superdelegates, forcing us to ask ourselves two essential questions: 1) Which candidate can carry the magic 270 electoral votes to win in the fall? 2) Which candidate is most likely to help our fellow Democrats in down-ballot races? We believe the answer to both of these questions is Hillary Clinton.

On the first question, Hillary has shown she can win the all-important battleground states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida even while being outspent. This speaks to her ability to connect with voters we must deliver in the fall, including blue collar Democrats who can sway this election as they have in the past.

On the second question, Hillary has won rural and suburban districts which we as Democrats must carry to maintain our edge in Congress. Of the fifteen districts rated "toss up" by the Cook Political Report, Hillary has now won ten. Of the 20 districts we picked up in 2006 that had gone for President Bush just two years before, Hillary has now won 16. She is strong in the places we must win to hold and expand our majority.

This is a historically close race. The candidates are separated by a mere percentage point or two and the path to victory for each candidate is the same: win in the upcoming states and secure enough pledged and automatic delegates to get to the number required to win the nomination.

+++

We Democrats are justifiably proud of both of our candidates, and if Senator Obama is our Party's nominee, we will enthusiastically support him. But our responsibility is not to choose simply to support the eventual nominee; it is to help select the nominee who is best for our party and best for our country. Our choice is clear: Hillary Clinton is that candidate. We believe she should be your choice as well.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/relea se/view/?id=7597


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:08:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

I can't question the facts in that unbiased campaign press release. They are unimpeachable.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:15:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

It's a letter from Swing state members of Congress.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

3 of the 17 are from New York -- hardly a swing state.  It's been solid blue for decades.  And 3 more are from Texas. . . when's the last time Texas voted for a democrat?  Again, hardly a swing state.     And the rest are all Clinton superdelegates.  Yes, by god, these are people whose independence cannot be questioned!  


by Headlight on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

So, do you really believe what you type? Do you really read that and think "ah, unbiased swing staters without any agenda other than what's best for the party, and maybe no one will notice they are in the tank for Clinton" or do you simply think the first part and don't actually know the second, somehow? Or do you simply know the second part, don't care about the first, and just want to get the spin out as fast and loud as possible?

Just wondering the motivation, here.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:51:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

I don't agree with you.

But I admire your perseverance.

Polls today don't mean anything.

Hillary was ahead 30 points as early as January and we all

know how that has played out.


Obama/Clark will CRUSH John McCain
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:15:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 2)

Yeppers, Obama thought he had this wrapped up in New Hampshire. And we all know how that played out...


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Simply not true. From the very beginning he was planning and on the ground everywhere. Show one link where anyone, even Obama himself, said that this would be wrapped up in NH.


by elvigy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:52:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unbelievable! (2.00 / 2)

Were you alive during the primaries?

Virtually every pundit had Clinton with one foot in the grave. "No doubt," they said. "Hillary will lose New Hampshire by eight" they said. "How can she regroup, how will she survive, she is out of money, she will shakeup her team," they said.

At 7:00 AM yesterday morning the news was about the high turnout and how it helped Obama. At noon the news was about election sites running out of ballots and how Clinton's team was planning a shakeup. At 5:00 PM the news was about Clinton skipping Nevada and South Carolina. At 7:00 PM, as the results started coming in with Hillary up, it was just too early to call the race for Obama. At 8:00 PM it was the exit polls that indicated Obama still won. At 9:00 PM we heard that college towns were still out, and Obama would still win.

Funny thing, just after 10:00 PM it was Hillary Clinton, not Barack Obama, giving a victory speech.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:34:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unbelievable! (none / 0)

You said Obama thought he had this wrapped up in NH. You provided only a statement that pundits, a notoriously wrongheaded bunch, thought he'd win.

Try again to show where he or his campaign thought that they would wrap things up in NH.

You lose.


by elvigy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:42:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unbelievable! (none / 0)

Yeah ... Obama thought he'd wrap it up in NH ... that's why he was so prepared on Super Tuesday!!    ;-)


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

As I recall, it played out that he won many more states, votes and delegates than his opponent, surpassed her in superdelegates just in the last 24 hours, raised tons more money while she borrowed tens of millions, and put himself in position to lock down the nomination in 7 days.  


by Headlight on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:52:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

"I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah"

... and it's Hillary?


by mikeinsf on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:19:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama: No Messiah (2.00 / 4)

No, but supporters depicting Obama this way are downright scary:


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:28:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Creepy !?!?!?!?!?! (2.00 / 1)

I am not even going to ask why you have that picture saved  

WTF?!?!?!?!!


John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"
by wellinformed on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:39:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Creepy !?!?!?!?!?! (2.00 / 4)

I don't have it saved. It's up on the net for everyone to see. And there's even more out there that are much more disturbing.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:44:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: No Messiah (2.00 / 1)

That is weird.

Still, I'm sure he's not the first national figure to have a few fanatics among his supporters(please see: Hillaryis44).  Still most people behind him are sensible, whether you want to believe that or not.

And, speaking of fanatical, there's going to be a time when you're going to have to accept he's going to be the Democratic nominee this year and that, yes, he has a good shot.


by mikeinsf on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:49:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: No Messiah (2.00 / 2)

That is weird. Is that a unicorn in the background? This is just...weird.


by elvigy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:55:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not a Unicorn (2.00 / 1)

It's the Unity Pony, of course!


by OtherLisa on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:32:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: No Messiah (2.00 / 1)

HEY! I have that same picture!

It's in a corner and I light candles and sing hymns while

praying to the messiah!


Obama/Clark will CRUSH John McCain
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:15:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what is that in his hand? (none / 0)

is it money, a tazer?  


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:44:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

all work and no play make KnowVOX go........ (none / 0)

you really are losing it you really think Hillary really has a snowballs chance in Hell !?!?!!?!!!
Her Campaign is in DEBT

there is NO way for her to catch up !!!!

come back to reality


John McCain's pick-up line is, 'Did you know that 150 is the new 130?'"
by wellinformed on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Delusions (2.00 / 3)

You're really losing it if you think Obama's got a snowball's chance in hell of beating McCain.

Come back to reality, indeed.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Delusions (none / 0)

KnowVox,  time to come clean about your Dem leanings...  are you a true Dem and want to win the W.H., or are you just a one-candidate fanatic?  Look, I was a Hillary supporter, too, but I looked at the numbers.  Aside from the formal declaration, it's over.

The question is, do you want a Dem in the W. H. or do you want McSame?  Just answer the question.  This is not multiple choice.  If your answer is the first one, then stop bad-mouthing.  You don't have to proclaim your love for Obama, the Dem nominee-to-be, but stop with the negatives!  I have enough faith in Hillary to know that she will be right there campaigning for Obama and helping him.  You need to prepare yourself to jump on this band wagon or hold your negs.  


by citizensane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:26:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Loyalty Oaths (none / 0)

Interesting that when your views are challenged, you resort to demanding loyality oaths. No dice. The Freepers in my state demanded a loyality test, and it's just as outrageous for them as it is for us. (See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news /1874837/posts)

Hillary has EARNED my vote.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:46:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Loyalty Oaths (none / 0)

You dodged the question ... he/she didn't ask if Hillary earned your vote in the primary ... you were asked what you'd do in the general if Hillary is not the nominee.


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:12:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Loyalty Oaths (none / 0)

I didn't dodge it at all. I'll vote for the candidate who earns my vote. If you want to see a "dodge" in action, watch the clip of Michelle Obama on whether she's support Clinton in the GE! LOL


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:52:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Is that a recognized organization (since you capitalized it), or just a group of random Congresspeople?

Also, from what I can tell, at least 5 of the 12 members of Congress aren't from swing states at all (TX+NY, specifically).


by ChrisKaty on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

DENIAL!  You're still in stage 1.  It's hard to put your heart and soul into a campaign and come out losing (no, it's not a loss--YET).  I understand that. But it's time to accept reality and get on the winning team (the Dems)!  Just watch, Hillary who has lots more vested in this will end up being gracious and a great team player.  Why don't you start thinking in that direction.... unless you like McSame?


by citizensane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh no... (none / 0)

"You need to go through the stages of loss before you will find your DEM roots: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance."

Can we please stop with the ad hoc psychology and sociology lessons from the far-left?  

I realize Obama and his supporters have an "explanation" (to put it lightly) for anyone who won't vote for him, but this phenomenon is getting out of control.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh no... (none / 0)

I think that cuts both ways. There have been plenty of psychological analyses from both sides. My favorite being this.

And then, of course, there's that picture KnowVox just posted above.
It's just the beat of time, the beat that must go on
If you've been trying for years, we already heard your song
by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:11:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh no... (2.00 / 4)

I posted the picture in response to the person who asked me if Hillary was my messiah.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh no... (none / 0)

Vote the way you want, but understand, Obama vs. McSame will be the contest. Do you want another 4 years of crap added to the 8 we just had?  Then adjust your attitude and come to accept the facts.  Obama is winning the nomination.  Continue to bad-mouth him and you sink the Dems chances this election.  There is nothing more that McSame people want than to collect a bunch of quotes from liberal Dems bad-mouthing their own candidate.   How will you all feel if your words against Obama are quoted in an ad for McSame?  That is how every word should be measured before it's put onto a blog for all to see.  We need to think forward and WIN back the W.H., not denigrate ourselves.


by citizensane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh no... (none / 0)

You don't know what my attitude is on the election this fall so I have difficulty accepting your recommendation for an "adjustment."

It's possible my views are, God forbid, nuanced...


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

I don't understand the animosity to Michelle Obama.

The only comparison I can think of is the attacks on Hillary Clinton. Both are smart, savvy, successful women who overcame many obstacles in their lives to get to where they are. Both are indipendent of their husbands, and both were ridiculed for making public speaking gaffes when neither were real public figures prior to the campaign.

As such, when I see Hillary supporters going after Michelle Obama for being outspoken or saying things other than "gosh, I just wuv america and all the kittens in it", joining talk radio, and Malkin-esque bloggers, in ripping her a new one for it, I just scratch my head and cuss quietly to myself.

I mean, how similar was the "proud of America" line to the "baking cookies" line -- both how it played out and how it was used.

Get over it; she's a great person. She's married to the candidate you would rather not have won. You expect her not to defend her husband with the same passion Bill defends his wife? You expect her to shrink and be quiet like Laura Bush or do something really momentous, like hide her campaign-funding finances like Cindy?

I'm not going to say "leave Michelle alone" because I think she can speak well enough for herself, but I hope people realize how petty and ugly it appears.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

It's only sexist if you speak ill of Hillary.

They can bash Michelle all they want and it's ok.

That's why I read their comments for laughs more than
anything else.


Obama/Clark will CRUSH John McCain
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:17:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Love you screen name!  Calvin and Hobbes rocks!!


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:30:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Bill Watterson is a genius.


Obama/Clark will CRUSH John McCain
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:39:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 1)

I don't understand the animosity to Michelle Obama.

I don't have any "animosity" toward her. I simply supplied the link to a video where she was extremely reluctant to support Hillary Clinton if she were the nominee.

The facts are the facts. It's not an "attack" to tell the truth.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:59:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 1)

You have a point, she's a strong woman, but Hillary never attacks other women and Michelle has had a high level of vitriol for Hillary, she's quite disdainful.  There is a rule with feminists that we often don't like the woman who attacks the other woman. Of course attacking Michelle isn't any better and ought not to be done, except in the context of calling her out on her anti-Hillary rhetoric. Hillary doesn't make personal attacks, she goes after policies and after her famous and feared 'fact checks.'  he's gone after her on her character, and that's what' upset most women, those of us who are upset and don't think she's 'fair game.'  Michelle is even more sarcastic than Barack. She reminds me more of Teresa Kerry than of Hillary. Hillary hasn't time for gossip and personal attacks, she's a busy beaver.  


by anna shane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

You're not holding your breath about Obama campaigning on behalf of Hillary, or, you're not holding your breath about Hillary winning?

Not really clear.


Peace, S.
by Reluctantpopstar on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:27:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 1)

After viewing Michelle Obama's video, does it appear to you she'll be vigorously campaigning for Hillary if she's the nominee?


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:48:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

KnowVox,

Just go ahead and vote for McCain.

BTW, I'm glad to hear you already have a Messiah. So do the Greek Orthodox, Baptists, Lutherans, etc.

What you misunderstand is many Democrats have a different kind of messiah (small m). And he's a political one, not spiritual.

Stop your self-righteousness.


by tomanderson13 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (none / 0)

Bingo!


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

stickin' it to the presumptive nominee (none / 0)

Be careful.

A few of the really stubborn Clinton supporters here might actually call for her to drop out now if it actually hurts Obama.


by emptythreatsfarm on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: stickin' it to the presumptive nominee (2.00 / 1)

LOL. My cynical political mind was thinking the same few days back. I was wishing Hillary steps down and then we all watch Obama lose with a big margin in WV and Kentucky. No doubt one part of my mind will be happy with that.

But my loyal Dem mind is just wishing that it all ends on a nice note so that we can focus on Nov together. On the night of May 6th, I congratulated everyone I knew for a spirited campaign and said that our common goal is getting the White House back. (though Kennedy did piss me off this week. If he continues, I might just do something to piss him off)


by Sandeep on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: stickin' it to the presumptive nominee (none / 0)

For what its worth, I thought Kennedy's remarks were over the line as well.

It's been a strange primary season, hasn't it?


by emptythreatsfarm on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 3)

Well, Huckabee won a few states after McCain was the presumptive nominee...

No one even remembers it now...

It happens all the time... it's not a big deal, really....

She can stay in as long as she wants... She's at least not kneecapping Obama anymore, so it's fine... although the tone of her campaign is still too unseemly for my taste... it's not as bad as it was a few weeks ago...


by LordMike on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:13:42 PM EST

He was still in (none / 0)

McCain was assured of victory, but Huckabee was still campaigning.  In other words, the same situation we have now with Obama and Clinton.  So Huckabee winning those states then, would be a parallel to Clinton winning WV and KY now if she is still campaigning.  If she suspends her campaign before WV or KY and then wins them, it would be a different situation than those Huckabee wins.


by cos on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:25:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He was still in (none / 0)

WV is tomorrow so I doubt her suspending her campaign today would be meaningful.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:56:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Obama Wants Clinton To Stay In (2.00 / 3)

How will it look?

Who cares? The beauty of going into "General Election Time" is that the fickle nature of the 24-hour news cycle ceases to matter as much, until, say, September.

It'd be a day of bad press, but so what? Better to avoid it, but if Hillary wins the better half of West Virginia's 28 delegates, and tries painting this as some sort of game changer -- and the press goes along -- that's worse. And significantly more annoying.

But the time is really for getting down to brass tacks, going after McCain and building the infrastructure needed to drown the GOP in some kind of positive, pro-Democratic tidal wave.

And honestly, that's the reason I'd like to see Hillary stay in for a bit. Just so that all the states get the deep loving that comes from these late primaries -- and all the grassroots building that comes from it.

I'd hate to see that aid the delusion though. Politico has the Clinton campaign suggesting some 80-20 or 90-10 win in the offing -- something I think should be taken with a grain of salt. As most of things from the Clinton camp at this point.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on</