Take a Chill Pill

Good Afternoon,

Thanks to YellowDem1129 for a diary about Clinton resentment - I appreciated a counter to my entry on Obama supporter resentment.

This diary is a discussion of November, so many months away, and the chances of a Democratic nominee. The place where I currently live is one of those lovely towns where everyone knew Bush would not be re-elected in 2004. From what I've been told, the day after the election saw quite a few dazed residents, wondering if they would have to make good on their joke about moving to Canada.

I don't think anyone has to worry about that this cycle. We have yet to enter the general election, and most of the populace isn't really paying attention. Paul Krugman wrote a column about this: (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/09/opinio n/09krugman.html)

Krugman is dead on here:

There's just one thing that should give Democrats pause -- but it's a big one: the fight for the nomination has divided the party along class and race lines in a way that I believe is unprecedented, at least in modern times.

The only people who can lose this election are US, if we don't show up and vote for healthcare, withdrawal from Iraq,a nd a responsible foreign policy. Think about 2004. John Kerry was successfully swift-boated and nailed - his campaign did not respond effectively, but it was still close.

Now compare 2004 to today, especially that little figure called a "Presidential Approval Rating." John McCain has lost his image as a maverick, and his policies had to be moved right for the nomination. He has not, and will not depart from Bush too far because McCain NEEDS that 28% to turn out and vote for him.

At the same time, he needs a lot more that 28% to win, and the country isn't ready for four more years of the past term's policies. This is the best chance Democrats have had for a landslide, and the nominee is going to get one, because voters are WORSE off than they were 4 years ago, and they know it. There is no way that the GOP can be more effective than in 2004, and there are many more factors working in Democratic favor.

This is our year, so take a chill pill and breathe easy on the outcome.

However, we still have to win that landslide. I have every faith that Democrats will win this election - but we need to win by a huge degree. Every vote that widens the gap will give the president a stronger case to push reforms through Congress.

We need to make this as big a blowout as possible as possible, but we don't need to drive ourselves crazy or frantic doing that. We still need to work as if the outcome was in doubt, but we don't need to have the same fear while doing that.

We're going to win.

Now let's go win big.



Display:


Re: Take a Chill Pill (2.00 / 1)

Well said.


by Blue Jean on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:49:46 PM EST

Re: Take a Chill Pill (2.00 / 2)


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:52:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

We're in a primary - Obama has had months of bad press, and McCain has had great press. This isn't relevant - go to http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ for a true polling analysis.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, McCain hasn't had much press at all (none / 0)

And some of us would suggest that Obama's press has been unduly reverential throughout most of this campaign.  Even after all the bad press started, he had no shortage of media people rushing to protect him.

But, you're still not absorbing the implications of the unprecedented divide discussed by Krugman and few Obama supporters on this site seem to be either able to, or willing to, imagine them.  These divides could very well be much stronger and long-lived than these candidates.  Many of us Clinton supporters keep trying to tell you that this isn't just about Clinton but most Obama supporters insist on seeing her as the primary obstacle to unification.


by lombard on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:46:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, McCain hasn't had much press at all (2.00 / 1)

Oh, I agree. That's my point - our hardest work will be to bring the polarized base back together. Assuming we do that, the election is in the bag.

However, you're right - that's a big assumption, and I hope the Obama campaign takes the ending of this primary more seriously than they took the beginning.

It isn't about Clinton - it's about the voters.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:17:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (2.00 / 1)

That is an interesting Chart - not sure where you got it from...Pablano has much better analysis out http://www.progressillinois.com/2008/05/ 11/features/obama-over-the-top


Matthew25Network.com
by cardboard 1 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

explain to me how McCain wins Michigan when neither Bush or DeVos could?


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

Because 40% of people in Michigan own guns. And O has the reputation as anti-gun.


by handsomegent on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:12:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

Sorry, but that's more than a little condescending. Michigan has been hit hard by the economic downturn - do you really think that voters will base their vote on guns?


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

And, my comment wasn't that nice either. I apologize.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:19:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

You can hope, I guess.

(Although "hope" is a gateway drug that leads to drinking the Kool-Aid, and then ultimately voting for Obama. A slippery slope indeed.)


by Rationalisto on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:40:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (1.00 / 1)

The party has "moveon.org"ed from "labor", the traditional purpose for which the party was in existence.  Obama may win the nomination, good luck with the GE without "labor".  Oh, you might want to pass that info onto Donna Brazile.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:58:15 PM EST

Re: Take a Chill Pill (2.00 / 1)

Obama has rejected labor? And is Donna Brazille in charge of his campaign? I trust his team - they had the right strategy to (probably) win in the primaries, and I'm sure they'll be effective in planning for the general.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (1.50 / 2)

I didn't say Obama rejected labor.  But I am saying labor has rejected Obama.  Try and win a GE without the Dem candidate carrying labor.  Of course, there is talk of the "new Dem party", which leaves half of the "old Dem party" out.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:05:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (2.00 / 1)

I don't think Obama is looking to do this. I think some supporters are rationalizing Clinton's strngth with those voters by saying "We don't need/want them."

Those are rationalizations, not the campaign strategy.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:09:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (1.00 / 1)

Once again, no one is saying Obama is doing this.  What is being said is labor has voted and expressed its desire NOT to support Obama.  Regarding "new party vs. old party", I refer you to Donna Brazile.  


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

What the hell does Donna Brazile has to do with this campaign?  You guys are fixated on a superdelegate that has no bearings whatsoever for Obama.  She is not part of his team... SHESH!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (1.00 / 1)

You seem to conveniently deny Brazile's role in the DNC.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:31:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

she doesn't have a bigger role than Dean


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:38:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (1.00 / 1)

But she's been quite vocal, and divisive.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:50:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

but who cares, so has many SD's!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:17:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

I don't think Labor has rejected Obama - he has gotten some big union endorsements, though you're correct in that they weren't hugely effective.

Something I have to admit I'm glad of - I don't like the idea of unions voting as a block.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:21:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

Labor has rejected Obama? Proof, please. When I google 'labor endorsements obama' I don't see any thing other than a very long list of press stories on unions endorsing Obama, and one about Clinton's former Secretary of Labor endorsing Obama. Where is the "rejection"?


Bush murders soldiers for profit. McCain wants to wet his beak.
by awobbly on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:39:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

Just because the unions endorse, doesn't mean the members vote in lockstep.


by Lacy Davenport on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

Still waiting for proof that labor is 'rejecting' obama. I won't hold my breath.


Bush murders soldiers for profit. McCain wants to wet his beak.
by awobbly on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:50:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (2.00 / 1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bar ack_Obama_presidential_campaign_endorsem ents#Labor_unions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hil lary_Rodham_Clinton_presidential_campaig n_endorsements#Labor_unions

Obama is competitive.  They have both attracted a lot of support from labor throughout the campaign.  HRC's attempt to position herself as the exclusive blue-collar candidate and place a wedge between Obama and the working class is fairly recent, and when she pulls out, she'll take the wedge with her.


by walterg on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:47:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

"HRC's attempt to position herself as the exclusive blue-collar candidate and place a wedge between Obama and the working class is fairly recent"

Yup. Before, she was running as the studious policy wonk with 35 years of experience. Anyone remember that? Now she's saying that she's not gonna "throw her lot in" with economists over the gas tax holiday, because expert opinion is just so elitist. Some policy wonk.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:55:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm Not Worried (none / 0)

There's really only a few handfuls of bloggers here at MyDD who right now feel so bitter and say they'll support McCaine. Those few are not going to make a difference in Senator Obama's defeat of McCaine in November.

I believe that once the Hillary dust has settled, the vast majority of the Democratic faithful and all of the new Democrats who have gotten involved will pull together for all the reasons we know that America can't have another 4 years of the Bush Administration.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:06:09 PM EST

Re: I'm Not Worried (1.00 / 1)

You need to get out more.  NObama is all over the cybernets.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (2.00 / 1)

And ze cybernets reflect mainstream reality?

If that was the case, the Republican nominee would be this "Paul" character.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:10:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (none / 0)

You need to get over it. Obama will be our next President.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:10:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (1.00 / 1)

And he will walk on water.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Denny, is this you? (none / 0)


http://777denny.wordpress.com/

-chris


Motley Moose, Troll Free Blogging
by chrisblask on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:19:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh, busted (none / 0)


by Slim Tyranny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:22:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, busted (none / 0)

I mean, if this is the same Denny -

http://777denny.wordpress.com/

and I get the impression that it is - then the definition of Troll has been written in stone...

-chris


Motley Moose, Troll Free Blogging
by chrisblask on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:25:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, busted (1.00 / 1)

You have no reason to make any assumptions of me except through my diaries and comments.  I will not justify your slander with further comments.  If you do not delete immediately, I will contact the administrators!  :)


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:28:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, busted (none / 0)

I just asked a question that is not out of line with your previous comments.

I assume by your responses that your answer is "no", though you won't say it.  OK, so it's not you.

But I am interested - are you going to vote for the Dem candidate, stay home or vote against?

Contact away.

-chris


Motley Moose, Troll Free Blogging
by chrisblask on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, busted (none / 0)

if it wasn't him he would have flatly said no.


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, busted (none / 0)

I'm not so sure, but it will be a sad sight if people vote because of personality instead of policies.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:23:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Denny, is this you? (1.00 / 1)

Wow.  I think you just called me a Republican.  At least you didn't call me a Kool-Aid drinker.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:24:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Denny, is this you? (none / 0)

Just asking a question.  Looks very similar, if it is not you then say so and I'll take your word for it.

You have already said you'd vote Republican if Obama was the nominee - and it looks like he will be, so now would be the time for you to switch sides - and this site has been created by a Clinton supporter, so it's a process of elimination...

-chris


Motley Moose, Troll Free Blogging
by chrisblask on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:27:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Denny, is this you? (1.00 / 1)

buh-bye.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (1.00 / 1)

"And he will walk on water..."

Creepy, ain't it?


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:22:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (2.00 / 2)

Yes, creepy that you'd go to the trouble of posting that.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:35:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (2.00 / 1)

Quite creepy. NOw why is it that a Clinton supporter is posting that?

Wouldn't you point be more accurate if Obama people did that?


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:24:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Creepy" is Back (none / 0)

That was one of the anti-Obama buzzwords from last month. I don't think it stuck, so they moved to "unelectable". That definitely had more traction.

I think Know didn't get the memo.


by Rationalisto on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (none / 0)

ya think?

According to the exit polls, half of Clinton's supporters in Indiana would not vote for Obama in a general election match up with John McCain. A third of Clinton voters said they would pick McCain over Obama, while 17 percent said they would not vote at all. Just 48 percent of Clinton supporters said they would back Obama in November.
Obama gets even less support from Clinton backers in North Carolina. There, only 45 percent of Clinton supporters said they would vote for Obama over McCain. Thirty-eight percent said they would vote for McCain while 12 percent said they would not vote.

Obama voters appear to be more willing to support Clinton in November. In Indiana, 59 percent of Obama backers said they'd vote for Clinton, and 70 percent of Obama backers in North Carolina said they'd support the New York Democrat.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200 8/05/06/exit-polls-half-of-clintons-supp orters-wont-back-obama/


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (2.00 / 1)

did they ask those Clinton voters if they even intended to vote for HER in the general election, either?


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (none / 0)

lol

as they say...denial aint just a river in egypt.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (none / 0)

so you DON'T have a response for that...I see.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:57:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (none / 0)

oh - so "did they ask those Clinton voters if they even intended to vote for HER in the general election, either?" was a serious question.  if you want to deny these numbers, go ahead.  

but these worrisome exit polls numbers have shown a steady increase since super tuesday and i promise you BO and the democratic leadership are concerned which is why amongst other reasons, that the super floodgate has not opened.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:04:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (none / 0)

It hasn't? He's been getting 5+ a day since last Tuesday...he got NINE in one day! Hillary's gotten what, 1 or 2 total the whole time?


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (none / 0)

Cut & paste all you want, CG.
I'm not as cynical about Democratic voters as you.

Of course, I'm not a Canadian either.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:56:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Not Worried (none / 0)

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  Did you see the exit polls in Indiana?


by handsomegent on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe. (none / 0)

It all depends on how the loser loses.  His/her supporters need to believe that the process was fair  and that he/she was given every opportunity to compete.  Don't underestimate the bitterness out there on both sides.  I am optimistic that we will all come together, but it is going to take a lot of work.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (2.00 / 2)

I wonder how many people sat out the 2000 election because they didn't like either candidate, although it was clear Bush was dangerously stupid.

I wonder how many of them regret it.

I wonder how many people would give anything to go back and save us from the mess we're in with the sanctity of the ballot they thumbed their nose at.

I hope no one here makes that same mistake.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:53:01 PM EST

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

Many of the Obama people I know voted for Nader and don't regret it to this day.


by handsomegent on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a Chill Pill (none / 0)

Yes, the GE numbers are terrifying right now.  

Still, I appreciate Falsehood's civility.


by Blue Jean on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:43:43 PM EST

I don't know why you bother hun (none / 0)

You wrote a reasonable diary and get nothing but doom, gloom, ire, and craptastic photos of a Jesus/Obama.  Being an agnostic, I find that sort of gross and frankly, rude and trollish.

So, I don't know why you bother because I strongly suspect that the people you are talking to are:

1. Already Obama supporters

  1. GOP trolls pretending to be Hillary Supporters
  2. Clinton Supporters that already know what needs to be don in the GE
  3. Dead enders that will cut off said nose to spite one's face all while screaming that it wasn't actually their nose.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:49:13 PM EST

Re: I don't know why you bother hun (none / 0)

:D

I think there are at lesat a few real supporters, like Alegre. As I recall, she has gotten quite a few votes in the primary season.

But trust me, I don't into the blogosphere without strong self-esteem. :D


by Falsehood on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:06:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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