why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example)

My first resentment is that I need to state that I'm a politically active African American, who in the past has supported all of the struggles you would expect: criminal justice reform, affirmative action, afrocentricism, etc.

Yet, my main resentment is toward Barrack Obama and the media for his allowing them to "create" him.  If people would take a sober look:

Obama has done 1 thing of note in relation to Presidential politics: he won a U.S. Senate seat.  The history of that race is so unbelievable in the context of both his primary and general election opponents that those few who don't believe in God, really have a hard time with that one.

So we have a black guy, who gave a speech in 2004 that everyone (including me) loved, and now he's a presidential contender?

Look at Carol Mosley Braun in Illinois for example:

November 3, 1992--Carol Moseley-Braun of Illinois became the first Black woman to win a U.S. Senate seat on this day. Moseley-Braun, with support from a broad-based political coalition, handily defeated Republican Richard Willliamson. She held the post until 1998. A Chicago native, Moseley-Braun earned a law degree from the University of Chicago in 1972 and served as an assistant U.S. attorney in the mid-1970s. Moseley-Braun won a seat in the Illinois House of Representatives in 1978, serving until 1988 when she was elected Cook County Recorder of Deeds, a post she held until her election to the U.S. Senate. She later served as U.S. ambassador to New Zealand and currently is a Democratic candidate for the U.S. presidency.

Imagine if she had given a great speech at the time, and the msm annoited her a contender?  

But wait, she did what every other politcian besides Obama has to, which was go to work.

In the process, she met scandal, and poor results, and when she stood before the people to be re-affirmed, SHE LOST.

-----
Look at George Allen, in Virginia, according to Virginia Republican standards, he did a great job in the Senate. Add to that, he was a former governor of the State.  He was poised to become the frontrunner of the Reagan Wing of the Republican Party.

Yet while in the re-election battle he loses a race, very few people even had on the radar when it began.

Now he is finished in national politics.

-----
I could give an endless list of people who were "Presidential" until they lost:

Tom Daschle
Harold Ford
Kathleen Kennedy Townsend

just to name a few.

The point is the media became so invested in obama that they didn't demand that he actually be qualified to run.  That would risk that he would do something unpopular, or lose an election along the way.

Obama has not done anything to deserve this platform.  Given a speech in 2004 at a convention is not sufficient.

Add to that, that he laughed, "he'd be crazy" to come to Washington and start running President, yet everyone else didn't laugh him off is a sad sign of our politics today.

The answer of course is all in race.  An ivy-league educated A.A. who speaks the language of liberal democrats.  Being that they control the media, add that to an unshakable black community support, and its' unstoppable in the Dem. Primary.

People can search all they want for reasons why HRC is behind, right now.  The answer is all about race and elitism.  It is also about why a frontrunner with a dominant financial advantage, and unanimous support in the media is scheduled to lose bigtime in West Virginia, and it is being totally discounted.

Obama should have either done something to deserve all of this, or rejected it in words and deeds.  But to stoke these fires as a demagogue is bad for America.

along the way, i've given example of "real change" that would justify this hoopla.

BUT NOT 1 SUPPORTER CAN COMMENT BELOW, ANYTHING, that Obama proposes to change that is worthy of this hype.  I've suggested radical education reform, a Dennis Kucinch type refuse to fund the war in Iraq, an effort to fight the cultural decay in Hollywood, war against the violence in the black community, etc.

but from obama, it's the same old, same old, with a deceptive package.

I can get that from HRC.  That's why I still support her.  Her dishonesty is actually honest because I know she's pandering and lieing on many things.  But at the end of the day, I believe she loves this country, is a smart/tough leader, and is the best person to lead this country.

(Update): btw I would have written similar things about HRC in 2004 if she had ran the same kind of race Obama has run. She would have had to offer something so unbelievable for me to skip over the fact that she hadn't done her job and gotten re-elected. So if she ran this 2008 race in 2004, I guess I'd be called a sexist.



Display:


It's Barack, not Barrack (1.61 / 18)

And he is the nominee, get over it.


by Fairy Tale on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:32:39 PM EST

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 15)

not until they vote in denver.

until then, I fight on, with truth.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:34:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (1.22 / 9)

Yet you admire your candidates dishonesty.  Each to their own I guess.


by interestedbystander on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:47:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (1.78 / 14)

if you think an honest person can get elected president, you are deluded.

the best you get is a fundamentally good person who in the end will do what's right.

How else do you think you can go to a racist black church and talk about racial healing?

Or have supporters who are pro-hamas, and others who are pro-Israel?

Obama is just as dishonest as Clinton, I resent that he acts as though he's not.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:54:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (1.75 / 4)

I'm really sorry that Obama hasn't lied enough for your satisfaction.  Why don't you e.mail the campaign and ask if they can work on putting that right.


by interestedbystander on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:58:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (1.33 / 3)

Isn't this the new BO campaign logo?


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 1)

Did you read the diary?

"Her dishonesty is actually honest because I know she's pandering and lieing on many things."

That's the only good word about Hillary Clinton he bothers to include.  Hillary is good because she panders and everybody knows it.  As for Obama, he can't think of any reason to support him.


by Jordache on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 3)

Did YOU read the diary?

Obama is just as dishonest as Clinton, I resent that he acts as though he's not.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:49:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whooooosh! (2.00 / 1)

over your head.


by Jordache on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:11:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (none / 0)

that was a comment not in the diary


by eraske on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:07:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 1)

he also included these good words for hrc: "... at the end of the day, I believe she loves this country, is a smart/tough leader, and is the best person to lead this country."


by california voter on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:24:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (none / 0)

How are those good words.
He only beleives she loves her country?

And what does that imply about Barack.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:59:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 1)

I'm United Methodist too and this is an ugly, ugly post.


by bethmydd on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:38:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 3)

Sometimes the truth is ugly.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 3)

No, the truth is beautiful. Ugly politics is just to some people's taste


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:01:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 2)

Yes it is.  Those are a lot of words to say you don't think Obama has enough experience?  Them's sour grapes, I think Joe Biden, Chris Dodd or Bill Richardson would tell you.  But I don't suppose we're done with calling the voters stupid.

I like Obama's chances of getting things done a little better than I like Hillary's.  I like that more people are involved in the system.  I like that he didn't support a war he didn't believe in.  I like that he's a fighter.  

I also already have a messiah (at least I did at the beginning of this race).  I'm voting for a leader who can restore my faith in government and the political system's ability to involve people and get a bit closer to accomplishing the promises made in this campaign.


by niksder on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 1)

With you all the way. I suspect your reply was not to me but the post above mine


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:38:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And sometimes the diary is just stupid. (2.00 / 4)

I've seen 12 y.o.'s with better logic skills. And this embarrassment made the wreck list. Why do I even feign surprise anymore?


by bookish on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:35:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And sometimes the diary is just stupid. (2.00 / 2)

The only reason this diary made the rec list is because he/she is a black person that is against Obama.


by eraske on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OMG (1.50 / 2)

zerosum,

Thank you for serving as MyDD's proxy schoolmarm. I know it's a thankless job, but we need someone with ostentatious self-worth and an assumed moral center to keep us in line. I really appreciate all the troll rates I get from you.

Keep up the good work, and know that there are those of us pulling for you in your endeavor.

All best.


by bookish on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 2)

Seriously... if you come up with a comparison of Obama to George W Bush I don't know where to begin with you....


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:08:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 4)

the funniest thing is.

all of you people who say Obama has done nothing have no understanding whatsoever what it really takes to run a national campaign. look at Howard Dean. He was the media anointed candidate in 2004, he raised $40 million dollars before Iowa (a record at that point), and he came in third, and never recovered.

almost entirely because John Kerry had a better ground game in Iowa. he had the Democratic "machine" behind him, even if he didn't have the media, and even though Dean had "the perfect storm" of 5,000 volunteers, they didn't know how to get the most out of them.

I've seen inside the Obama campaign, and their organization is brilliant. Hillary had that Democratic machine on her side and she was the media-anointed candidate before the Iowa vote, and Obama's organization beat her. Still, if she had put together a smarter strategy, that machine could have pulled things out for her in the following weeks, but she bet on Super Tuesday and ignored a dozen states, while Obama put people on the ground everywhere.

Seriously, if you can look at how this campaign has unfolded, and still think that Obama has not demonstrated any amount of skill, you need a quiet weekend in the country. You can say that Hillary is the greatest candidate ever, but then turn around and say Obama has done nothing to beat her. You blame it all on "the media", but in case you hadn't noticed, the media loves John McCain more than anyone, so if Hillary couldn't come up with a strategy to beat Obama "in the media", she'd be in an even worse position against McCain.

This election was Hillary's to lose, and she hired the wrong people to run her campaign. You should all be mad at Mark Penn, not Barack Obama.


by 2501 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:48:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (1.00 / 5)

No what you fight on is all you have left, Bitterness.


by venician on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:26:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 3)

You forgot that Barack Obama served in the State Senate here in IL, representing the poorest of the poor in my hometown of Chicago.

I find your diary offensive. Hillary happily takes money from lobbyists (but not enough to pay her $20 million in debts), while Obama does not. Hillary ran a crappy "50% + 1 vote" campaign, versus Obama's successful "50 state strategy".

Hillary hired unionbuster Mark Penn for a kings ransom, but Penn didn't have a clue about the Democratic nomination process. He didn't know that the delegates are apportioned by congressional district (he thought it was "winner take all") and didn't understand how the caucus' work. Hillary is not ready on day one, and is clearly not ready to be president. Obama ran a great campaign, against the biggest name in the Dem party.

Show some respect for my Senator!

by power of truth on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:54:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (none / 0)


John McCain is a coward. He has no honor.
by vadasz on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:08:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Barak is going to win (none / 0)

and Clinton is going to lose for a simple reason: he was the only major candidate to oppose the Iraq War.

I worked in Iowa where the War cut as an issue ( I was for Edwards). Had Clinton voted against the AUMF (as the majority of Democrats in the Senate did) she would have won Iowa, and with it the nomination.  Had Edwards voted against the AUMF, he would have won Iowa and with it the nomination.  And you can say the same thing about Dodd and Biden as well.

They didn't, and that made the Obama response on experience (if experience was so important, why did you support the Iraqw War) effective.

Clinton people I don't think want to admit that her weakness (which was obvious to anyone who understood primary history) was based on REAL concerns.  And so they resort to insulting the Democratic Electorate and re-circulating right wing talking points that have made this site at times look like Redstate.  


by fladem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:45:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 1)

Your attitude does your candidate no favors.


by aggieric on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:51:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (2.00 / 5)

That goes double for the diarist.

Not a good word about her, except that she's dishonest.

What a bizarre diary.


by Jordache on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:23:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's drive-by JJ (1.75 / 4)

Good to see you screaming through the diary, throwing firebombs.


by bookish on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And her trusty sidekick, zerosum (1.50 / 2)

How's it goin', you crazy kids?


by bookish on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:10:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And her trusty sidekick, zerosum (none / 0)

Good evening bookish.

Just thought I'd say hello. Tell you a lovely story that family members over heard on Mother's Day at the local video store. About how women can't be president because of hormones. Seems it was the opinion of the over heard that women might start a war if they were PMSing. I wish that I could say they were joking. But nope. That's what they heard.
I'm one of what they call here "uppity females". I have hoisted a 75lb feed bag and worn heels to church. Did both because someone needed to and well I was the one delegated to do so. No saint. But well, I'm getting an uneasy feeling that Sen. Clinton's biggest hurdle is that she is female. An uppity female. Seems a shame. A waste.

I hope that it really is differences in policy.

I don't mind a fair fight but oh bookish. It don't feel that way.

Now hop on in here and tell me you're female and disagree and why. I could use the encouragement. Seriously.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:39:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And her trusty sidekick, zerosum (2.00 / 1)

I'm sure there are men down at the hardware store in my hometown that feel the same way. That's why I got the fuck out of there. Most of them vote Republican.

This isn't about race and it's not about gender. It's about people choosing the individual each one of us feels is the best person for the job and for the country. I take it you and I disagree on that person. But don't think my decision is about your candidate's gender in the same way I don't think your decision is about my candidate's race.

Quite honestly, your response has nothing to do with my former comment, or any of my former comments for that matter. I don't think it's about my problem, whatever it is you imagine that to be. So maybe you need to ask yourself why you felt the need for that little soliloquy.


by bookish on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:13:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And her trusty sidekick, zerosum (2.00 / 1)

Hello Bookish,

Not everyone has the luxury of leaving when they don't like the politics. Some of us don't leave we stick it out.

In your comment you said--

"...This isn't about race and it's not about gender. It's about people choosing the individual each one of us feels is the best person for the job and for the country. I take it you and I disagree on that person. But don't think my decision is about your candidate's gender in the same way I don't think your decision is about my candidate's race..."

Good for you.

Not everyone feels like that. Including those folks in your hardware store or the ones in my video store. Therefore, I come to the internet for support. What do I find on the internet? Well not support. Just alot of fussin'.

Look bookish. You don't know me. You don't know who I will and won't vote for. I'm still working that out. So unless you are somehow psychic, you have no clue. I am in a kind of vetting process for each candidate. Ironic. I was just commenting else where on the internet that for me, this election was hopefully going to be one of the easier ones because all three of the finalists have a voting record in the same governing body, on the same issues, in the same time period. I don't have to project what say a governor would do. I just put my issues on a spread sheet and look who matches. I don't have to engage in spin for one candidate or the other.
I'm a voter. I don't spin. But I certainly do vote.

As I look out in the world I see folks for whom gender and yes race are  big issues. And they vote. It's disheartening. I would hope that if gender or race are not an issue  in your world you could give encouragement to us folks out here where it is.

Definately not a way to win one over to Sen. Obama's team. I wonder if this is the reason why Sen. Clinton supporters are not very happy at the prospect of supporting  a Sen. Obama candidacy?
Perhaps they sense that they really won't be welcome to Team Obama. Perhaps they feel it's in their best interest to keep fighting.

Just a thought.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:26:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And her trusty sidekick, zerosum (none / 0)

Bookish, I'm not in anyway picking on you. The subject just came up and was mentioned here.

For anyone reading.

Folks do come to the internet for information concerning the candidates. They use this information to decide who to vote for. Not to promote them. Not to be their cheerleaders. But simply information gathering. They also may come, like me, from heavily Republican areas looking for support. You know. Mercy knows what they must think. I know what I'm beginning to think. A lot of fussin and fighting but no comraderie.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:51:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And her trusty sidekick, zerosum (none / 0)

You seem to be accusing me of speculative leaps, and yet your response is rife with them, as well.

I think you gave me plenty of room to suggest that you were leaning to Senator Clinton. Your gender-centric response to my original post (which had nothing to do with the subject) spoke to your personal experience with sexism and its relation to the candidacy of one of the Democrats in the race. I didn't make a full leap, but rather told you that I took (based on your post) that you supported Senator Clinton; and despite your words that you are somehow undecided, I still sense that you are listing hard toward one of the remaining Dems.

I never claimed to know you, only to have distilled some assumptions from your words. I hope you'd return the favor for me.

As for the positivism you think I should provide to those who've spent their days spreading dissent and smears for the probable nominee, I'm tired of being held hostage to the hurt they feel. The constant threats of jettisoning the party in an act of sheer spite gives me no pause or desire to comfort them. I've made not claim to be a good person about this, though I'm doing my best to remain civil in most cases.

I'm not here to welcome anyone to "Team Obama." I'm not employed by the campaign and not beholden to it more than insomuch as it serves a means to achieving what I think is best for the country at this particular point in time. I am not its standard bearer or compass. I am simply someone who has settled on a candidate that suits my concerns.

I wish you good luck in finding a meaning in one of the two candidates we have to choose from. I have found mine and am satisfied.


by bookish on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And her trusty sidekick, zerosum (none / 0)

'er okay.

Have a nice life to you too.

Sheesh.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:57:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's Barack, not Barrack (none / 0)

so he says, but it will take more than him crowing himself, and a few of his entitled supporters jumping the gun and trying to stop democracy from doing it's imperfect thing. so, there!!


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:39:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (1.20 / 15)

The liberal media are children of the 60s

They believe and rightly so that ANY black president would break the log jam on racism.

Obama being black is the only reason I would even be tempted to vote for him against McCain.

McCain has a much larger legacy of being a friend to the democratic party than Obama and he is GOP for crying out loud.


by DTaylor on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:33:45 PM EST

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 9)

"McCain has a much larger legacy of being a friend to the democratic party than Obama and he is GOP for crying out loud."

Your truly believe you anger has clouded your judgement.

Please go look up Senator McCain's voting record.

He scores a lifetime 95% pro-life.

He scores >80% life time from the Conservative Union, take out CFR, and he is WELL over 90%?

He has voted for EVERY rightwing Judge nominee to the district as well as the USSC?

He is FOR DOMA, Don't ask, Don't Tell, he is FOR a constituional ammendment banning Gay Marriage.

He is against affirmative action, he voted AGAINST the Martin Luther King Holiday.

He was AGAINST the ERA?

He is against equal pay initiatives for women?

He maybe FRIENDLY with some Democrats, but, he is miles away from Democrats on our issues.


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If obama survives the scandal (2.00 / 1)

I'll vote for him.

Unless,

the scandal didn't matter and Hillary won fair and square,

then I'll vote for her.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then you should change your name... (2.00 / 1)

b/c you are most definitely not a "yellow dog democrat."


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the yellow is about journalism, apparently... (2.00 / 3)

which makes the name fit all over again.


by heaveno on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:22:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If obama survives the scandal (2.00 / 1)

which scandal?  and since when did surviving falsely-created scandals become a good barometer on who to vote for?  this is ridiculous.


by heaveno on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:23:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If obama survives the scandal (2.00 / 1)

you talk about the media creation that is Obama and then you claim that you are not voting for him because of a media created scandal. Contradiction much?


by eraske on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Me too (2.00 / 3)

for me, its his best quality and the symbolism will do a lot... we just can't afford it right now...
by linc on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:42:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Me too (2.00 / 1)

I'd love to see someone tell me what Hillary Clinton has to offer above and beyond what Obama has?  I'm in New York and no one knows WHAT she does.  No bills.  No sponsorships.  She's been wrong on all the major issues of the day.

But the diarist is cool with all that because a) she survived one reelection bid, and b) she's dishonest.

If I'm missing something then by all means, clue me in.


by Jordache on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:41:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She has done far more than Obama (2.00 / 2)

She has taken it for this party in a major way- since 1992. She has played villain for the GOP and she has rebounded time and time again. This alone is worthy of great respect for any self-described Democrat. She has worked her ass off on everything she does in the Senate- she KNOWS the issue, not just the talking points. She HAS seen the world and represented this country, quite gracefully, on the international. She has made a significant impact on the lives of not just Americans, but people all around the world. No matter how much you folks like to disparage her role as first lady- I will quote the only one that doesn't have a dog in this fight re: N. Ireland: Mo Mowlam

"Hillary is one of the essential reasons we've had 18 months of relative peace. Without her we would have no economic boom."

Mo died in 2005- that quote is even older. You can look up Mo Mowlam if you care to know who actually brought peace to Northern Ireland.
by linc on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:06:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She has done far more than Obama (none / 0)

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/l ocal-national/article3555980.ece

A little more to the story than just Mo's quotation, linc.  I'll get more in a second.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:21:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She has done far more than Obama (none / 0)

Well, it appears there are varying interpretations on Hillary's role in the process, however, it boils down to something like this:

She accompanied Bill over there, but didn't attend the conferences and meetings between the principals. She organized meetings between the women on both sides.  She had Bill's ear.

Ah, I'm sure that experience helped her in a very real sense of being close to the action and knowing the players, but I'm not sure I buy that she did anything that you could call "being instrumental" to the peace process.

I guess I would need to see something other than vague pronouncements of "she helped a lot by being there" to lend credibility to your claim.  I'm not sure how important any of this is, but I think that it's a little dishonest to claim she had as much to do with the peace as either Mo or Hillary claimed.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:32:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She has done far more than Obama (none / 0)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2008/01/clinton_and_northern_ireland .html

Pretty objective look at the situation, which confirms what I remembered, in large part.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:37:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I will take (none / 0)

Mo Mowlam's word over yours or David Trimble's any day, anytime. End of story. If Mo said Hillary did good, then Hillary did good. The world has never seen a more honest and caring politician than Mo Mowlam.
by linc on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:29:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And what you remember (2.00 / 1)

is skewed by what is most certainly an ingrained sexism- something that almost every American has, even women, that very much undervalues the work of women- from step one. Its psychological and it manifest through things like pay, promotion, expectations.
by linc on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:41:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes you are missing much (none / 0)

Go to her website (haha)


by emmasaint on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 4)

McCain also explicitly supports social security privatization, and is against any type of federal answer to health insurance.  And wants to keep us in Iraq for 100 years and saber rattle against Iran.

But yep, other than all those issues he's a much better friend to the Democratic party than a guy whose platform mirrors Senator Clinton's on 99% of all issues.  


by HSTruman on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (1.85 / 7)

The same people telling me McCain wants a 100 year war are telling me that Hillary is a racist and Obama's pastor is an American patriot.

Lying reduces credibility.


by DTaylor on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 2)

Then you are in real trouble.  I suggest you use your common sense and research to help you in this difficult situation.  Or am I lying?


by interestedbystander on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:50:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 2)

Obama said people cling to religion and oppose immigration because they are bitter small town folk.

McCain said it would be fine to be in Iraq in the same way that we have been in Japan for over 50 years.

You choose the most negative spin on your quote then perhaps I will choose the most negative spin on mine...

And yes I think by picking a dishonest reading of his quote you are lying.  Just as I would be if I said Obama bashed religion with his quote.


by DTaylor on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:00:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 2)

Is there an "honest" reading of his quote (to your ears) that doesn't make him sound like a complete idiot speaking in favor of a sustained troop presence? Putting it another way: does he have a way of getting to a Japan-style situation that doesn't involve many more years of active combat beforehand? Is there a way for him to station troops in Iraq without them getting attacked, and, if so, why haven't we heard it? At best, you're excusing lunacy.
by Jay R on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 1)

"At best, you're excusing lunacy."

I wasn't the one calling Rev Wright a patriot and saying that people should be ashamed for calling him out on saying "God Damn America".

By choosing a position where I either agree with you that McCain a man I have admired for at least 10 years is a lunatic or disagree with you its rather easy to disagree with you.

Again LYING REDUCES CREDIBILITY


by DTaylor on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:47:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 1)

Who's said any of that? And I note you've yet to offer a reasonable interpretation of McCain's remarks which would make them seem less idiotic, but your bluster is certainly a refreshing change...<sigh>
by Jay R on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (none / 0)

Assuming you could get a Japanese-style occupation, have you considered the cost os maintaining that, and have you considered how a permanent American presence would play on the 'Street' in the Middle East?  Have you considered that our presence is the primary reason Osama bin Laden cites in his anger towards us?

These might be the kind of questions one might ask on an ostensibly Democratic site when analyzing the pro-war policies of a Republican candidate. Instead,  you are jumping in bed with McCain, simply so you can go after the Democratic frontrunner.  Look at yourself.

(and WTF does wright have to do with Iraq?)


by mikeinsf on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:49:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (none / 0)

It had to do with excusing lunacy.


by DTaylor on Mon May 12, 2008 at 06:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wright IS a Patriot (2.00 / 1)

Have you bothered to listen to his sermons, or only the snippets played over and over on cable news?  Have you read about his history at all?  He served admirably in the Marines.  He has often spoken with great love and patriotism about America and his fellow Americans (of all colors).  Yes, he has also been critical of America, sometimes in very harsh language... that can also be a form of patriotism, fighting to change what you see is wrong about your country.  Yes, he has some really nutty ideas about AIDS and government conspiracies... but that does not make him less patriotic, just a bit of a nut.  A person can have wrong ideas and still love their country.

Or is criticism of the government off bounds.  Are we unpatriotic when we criticize the Bush administration for lying us into a war, for torture, for judicial abuses, etc?

Should we really damn Wright for daring to utter "God damn America"?  I lived for several years over a Pentecostal church.  I've heard plenty of potentially shocking things yelled from the pulpit, no doubt in an attempt to wake up the congregation and get their attention... but taken in the context of an entire sermon or the entire ministry of the church, they are really no big deal.

I'm not saying I agree with Wright on everything, and he is a bit weird, certainly.  But I think an honest examination of his background and his sermons shows him to be a man of deep faith and patriotism, no matter how wacky a few of his ideas are or how carried away his preaching becomes.

Peace


by protothad on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:10:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 4)

I'm not telling you anything.  Those are in fact McCain's positions.  Do even a cursory level of research and you'd already know that.  Then, maybe you wouldn't ridiculously claim that McCain is a better friend to the Democratic party than a man who agrees with Senator Clinton on 99% of all issues.

Significantly, you have utterly failed to address that last point.  Oh, and I've never called either of the Clintons racists and I'm not aware of anyone who agrees with Wright's most offensive statements.  So that's a pretty silly argument too.  


by HSTruman on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I must be suspicious... (2.00 / 1)

of anyone on this forum ties to claim that McCain is actually better for the Democrats than Obama.  Good grief, even in those few areas where McCain used to be moderate, he has turned 180 and become a complete neocon hugger.  Or are we to assume he is now lying to his base just to get elected... yeah, that makes me feel even better about him.

I really think a few of the so called Hillary supporters that have popped up around here are actually redstate and freeper moles bent on creating Democratic division.  I have no other explanation for their McCain loving ways; it is a rejection of everything HRC stands for.


by protothad on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:38:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 2)

The same people telling me McCain wants a 100 year war are telling me that Hillary is a racist...

Hillary is telling people she's a racist?  Since when?  Yeah I know I'm being snarky but it amazes me to no end how people overlook what the candidate of their choice has been saying.  But as they say...consistency is the hobgoblin...

Hillary Clinton used an important foreign policy speech in Washington to attack Barack Obama, her rival for the Democratic nomination, and John McCain, the Republican nominee-elect, who is visiting Baghdad before the fifth anniversary of the invasion.

She said that Mr McCain wanted to extend President Bush's "failed policy" and keep American troops fighting "another country's civil war -- a war we cannot win" -- for 100 years.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo rld/us_and_americas/us_elections/article 3571855.ece


by StrangeAnomaly on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:35:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (none / 0)

Hillary supporters never bother to hear what Hillary is saying, because Hillary supporters know that she's always lying, they just decided not to care about it.


by Aris Katsaris on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:48:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yeah, don't believe them - vote mccain. (2.00 / 1)

every good democrat is going to! lol*

*(heavy sarcasm for those who don't get it)


by heaveno on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:25:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's chief advisors support SS privatization (2.00 / 2)

too.

Obama does not support Universal Health Care.

And Obama won't give us a plan/timetable for getting out of Iraq (he's actually flip-flopped on his initial promise...now he will figure it out later.)


by CoyoteCreek on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Really? (2.00 / 2)

One of his economic advisers has shown some support for SS privatization.  Obama has explicitly opposed it.  On multiple occassions, and in his books.  I fail to see what your point is.

Similarly, his health care plan ensures universal access to insurance.  That's a difference with Senator Clinton, and -- by the most conservative of estimates -- would still cover more than 30 million more people than McCain's "plan."  You still wanna argue that's an issue that militates in favor of McCain being better than Obama?  Which, if you'll recall, was the point I was responding too?

As far as Iraq goes, you're again wrong.  He still supports a gradual withdrawal, with timelines, as he has for quite awhile.  Your "proof" to the contrary is a statement by an adviser that all his plans are subject to events on the ground.  A statement, I would add, that is the equivalent of saying the sky is blue it's so obvious.  And, I would add again, a position that is the exact same as Senator Clinton's.

Anything else?


by HSTruman on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:14:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How many people are still uninsured (2.00 / 3)

under BO's HEALTH CARE plan?

And you think that Bo won't be influenced by his advisers with regard to SS....not to mention his kumbaya love fest with the Repugs - instead of TAKING A STAND AND PUSHING PROGRESSIVE POLICIES?


by CoyoteCreek on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How many people are still uninsured (2.00 / 3)

Obama is explicitly on record regarding SS.  There is no evidence that he agrees with that adviser.  

As to Health Care, conservative estimates say there are approximately 45 million people without health insurance.  Senator Clinton's campaign argues that only 30 million would voluntarily choose to get health care under Obama's campaign.  That leaves 15 million folks who would affirmatively refuse care, under her estimates.  She argues that her mandates would effectively force a portion of that 15 million to get insurance.  There are no hard numbers on what portion.  Both of their plans would leave some people uninsured.  

Both would insure -- at a minimum -- 30 million more folks than McCain, who you are apparently defending.


by HSTruman on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How many people are still uninsured (none / 0)

Exactly.  Honestly, both plans fall short of what actually works: single payer.  


by mikeinsf on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:53:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How many people are still uninsured (2.00 / 3)

This is my second favorite reason people give for not voting for Obama, and enabling a McCain presidency.  That he's too soft on Republicans.

Therefore you'd rather a Republican win.

Anyway, when is Hillary Clinton, of "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" going to AT LONG LAST take responsibility for her own campaign?


by Jordache on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:32:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How many people are still uninsured (2.00 / 1)

well how many people are still uninsured 16 years after Bill and Hillary went into office promising us health care reform?

How about all the gays who are happily serving openly in the military? (oh wait, they didn't keep that promise either).

Why do you believe that Hillary would keep every promise she has made this time?


by 2501 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You don't want to go there! (none / 0)

Because BO's close and chief health care advisor takes credit for personally killing the Clinton health care initiative  of the '90's.

Not a good thing to reference for BO.


by CoyoteCreek on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:33:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think it is a nonissue either way (none / 0)

If GWB couldn't achieve privatization with majorities in both houses and his party behind it, I can't imagine that Obama could (even if he wanted to) with his party solidly opposed and minority Republicans probably being less than enthusiastic about taking political risks to help Obama.

Obama also doesn't strike me as a big risk taker or one who is going to take affirmative efforts to oppose the wishes of the majority of his party.


by lombard on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:45:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think it is a nonissue either way (2.00 / 1)

Lombard said:
"...Obama also doesn't strike me as a big risk taker or one who is going to take affirmative efforts to oppose the wishes of the majority of his party...."

12 dogs response:

You know Lombard that's the reason why I have been asking about Sen. Obama's leadership activities during his "day job" as US Senator.

Mostly what he's been doing, from what I can see, is running for president. Nothing wrong with that. However I feel that, considering his activities as US Senator on the issues of the day, it would be a much stronger campaign to actually do his job as Senator than  running around making speeches. In a strange way he has more power in the Senate to cause change than he does as president.

Presidents have to be good communicators but they also have to work the Legislative branch from afar.

As for Sen. Braun, I have been surprised that the folks who would lecture me about who or what a feminist is wouldn't know who she was.

Funny.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Really? (none / 0)

If Obama is so progressive, why is Sam Nunn supporting him?  He is the one who forced Clinton into the DADT compromise. On that basis alone, I have my doubts about Obama.


by handsomegent on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Really? (none / 0)

Obama is too conservative because a conservative Democrat that "convinced" Bill Clinton to adopt bad policy supports him now?

Wow, that's some tortured logic.


by HSTruman on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:11:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The lying needs to stop (2.00 / 2)


by Slim Tyranny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The lying needs to stop (none / 0)

Are you calling me a liar, without any explanation?  If so, that's pretty cool of you.  Good job.  If I'm misunderstanding you, then my apologies.


by HSTruman on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I called DTaylor a liar (none / 0)

This is patently false: "cCain has a much larger legacy of being a friend to the democratic party than Obama."


by Slim Tyranny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:17:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I called DTaylor a liar (none / 0)

My apologies.


by HSTruman on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no worries (none / 0)


by Slim Tyranny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:07:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ain't no such thing as liberal media (2.00 / 1)

... while disney owns the whole thing.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:37:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 6)

Those nearly 10 years he spent in the Illinois senate are nothing huh?

Also guess what, he has worked harder in politics and been around longer than Lincoln was before he ran.


by Cheebs on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:33:48 PM EST

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 5)

Please:

list in those 10 years, what would be worthy of his press attention? 90% black support?  "shivers up people's leg"?  I'll wait for this great acheivement:


by yellowdem1129 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:39:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 6)

Fixed the Illinois death penalty.
Comprehensive campaign finance and ethics reform.
Expanded earned income tax credit.
Etc.
by Adam B on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:42:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (1.75 / 4)

is that a joke?

I understand Illinois to be a part of the U.S., which means they have a republican form of government.

So that means anything he gets credit for, a republican governor signed?

So Ryan is a great governor, for signing obama leglislation?

Come on, you, nor me ever heard of obama before the run-up to the speech in 2004.  Except, "there's a black guy running for the senate in illinois".

I'm not saying he did a bad job in illinois, but to say he "fixed the death penalty" is a ridiculous statement.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:45:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um, no. (2.00 / 8)

I first knew Barack Obama in 1996, when he was my professor in law school.  

And his legislative leadership on the death penalty and interrogation issues was heroic.  You should read about it.


by Adam B on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 6)

What I want to know is what did he author and go to the mat for year after year? Where are his failures that he reintroduced year after year until they passed? Is there a single bill that you can point to that he wrote and sponsored that he offered in the year previous to when it finally passed?

We know that Emil Jones assigned authorship of bills so that he could "get" himself a US senator. So which bills were organically obama's = meaning, they came originally from his desk, and he carried them year after year? Are they any?


by Little Otter on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:50:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (none / 0)

Has he stood on the floor of the US Senate and argued passionately for an issue that he believed in even when more experienced senators very much disagreeded with him? Did his speech turn the vote around in the senate? Ironic. This question is not just to Sen. Obama's activities in the US Senate but also to a comparison of Sen. Braun's time in the US Senate.

The year was 1993.

I think that Sen. Braun was a rookie senator at the time she gave her speech on the floor of the US Senate.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:18:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 1)

Passed legislation that required police to videotape interrogations, cutting back on abuse.


If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.
by Darknesse on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 8)

He managed to take a bill that nearly NOBODY wanted to pass, and get it through nearly unanimously.

Thanks to Obama, in the state of Illinois, if the prosecutor tries to seek the death penalty in a capital case, if you want to use a confession it has to be on video tape.  This is done to prevent coerced confessions.

Please remember that voting for this sort of thing is usually seen as political suicide because you look "weak on crime."  But Obama championed it, reasoned with both Democrats and Republicans, and he got it done.

You wanted an example.  You got one.  I'm sure you'll ignore this post entirely, or if you do comment, you'll do so in a snide way that totally misses my point.

I apologize for trying to intrude upon your fantasy with reality.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:44:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 4)

how could NO ONE wanted it to pass, when they had a moritorium at the time, because they had to let like 13 innocent people off of death row?

That was one of the easiest bills to pass, because the governor was embroiled in scandal, and the democrats had a whip hand.

again, i'm not saying he didn't do his job in illinois, but being 1 of hundreds of (i think) part-time legislators is a joke.


by yellowdem1129 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:47:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 5)

Then I will say it.

Obama didn't get that bill passed.

Obama got CREDIT for getting that bill passed.

Big difference.

Google it do your homework.


by DTaylor on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:49:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why I resent Obama(Mosley Braun for example) (2.00 / 1)

You are so full of hate.  I don't understand it.

And you're wrong about the bill, of course.


by Jordache on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:33:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

if you are right and i'm wrong (2.00 / 4)

why haven't you heard,

"he fixed the death penalty system", etc.

it's because it is as much a joke as

lobbyist reform

--
his only possible qualification would be in offering new ideas that others won't, but he hasn't done that.

Dennis kucinich was the only one this cycle to offer a new idea;
stop voting for funds for Iraq, no need to hold a vote-no need to overcome a rep. filibuster or bush veto


by yellowdem1129 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:50:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if you are right and i'm wrong (2.00 / 3)

Or, because ensuring just treatment for people accused of murder is bad politics, but nevertheless the right thing to do.


by Adam B on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Alright yellow (2.00 / 1)

Yeah I'm black and I'm almost 95% sure as to why you are called "yellow dem."  Just admit that you don't like Obama. Fine. However, to discredit what he has done over the last ten years is just wrong. Please name 10 pieces of legislation that Hillary has co-authored and passed since she is a two term senator.

I'll wait patiently.


by sweet potato pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, well, (none / 0)

Keep waiting.
You'll be here a while...
This is one post the Clinton supporters will conveniently ignore.
ооо
by Mumphrey on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:34:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alright yellow (none / 0)

Hey ya Sweetpotato pie.

Actually that's the job of both sides really to distinguish themselves from the other candidate. And to, yes, critise the otherside. It's how you decide on which candidate you're going to vote for.

As for yellow dog's nick.

I could be wrong on this. People choose their nick names for all kinds of reasons. The term "Yellow Dog" Democrat comes from folks saying they'd vote for a yellow dog before they'd vote any other party's candidate. A very loyal Democrat supporter.  I think is't a old term. I know I've heard it used for along time.

I heard Garison Keillor use it on "Prairie Home Companion" when he's talked about loyal Democrats.

Means that they usually support the Democratic nominee who ever it is. I'm not sure why your being black has anything even remotely to do with being a "yellow dog" Democrat. Maybe there is another term "yellow dog" that I'm not familiar with. If so, would you please indicate here. I wouldn't want to unknowingly use a term which would offend.

Just thought I'd say sumthin'.

This would be a good point to list the legislation that Sen. Clinton was co authored and passed during time as Sen.Clinton. Compare it to Sen. Obama's. Note on Sen. Braun. It's my understanding that she single handedly turned around a US Senate vote in 1993. Getting on Sen. Howell Heflin to change his vote. Big deal considering what the vote was about and the state that Sen. Heflin represented.

Do you mind if I wait here with you?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 05:49:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alright yellow (2.00 / 1)

No, I'm thinking that it means something else and I think Yellowdem knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I'm going to keep my cool and not tell her what I really think of her and her crab like behavior regarding Barack.


by sweet potato pie on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:54:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alright yellow (2.00 / 1)

Okay. The internet is a big world and mercy knows how language has morphed.

You might be doing us all a favor by telling here the alternate meaning. I've only heard of the "yellow dog" and "blue dog" democrat terms. If there is a different meaning, I'd for one like t