MyDD :: Rahm Emanuel: Kennedy, that's "Uncalled for and Wrong"

Rahm Emanuel: Kennedy, that's "Uncalled for and Wrong"

by andrewalker08, Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:05:28 PM EST

From the diaries, Jerome

What exactly is "uncalled for and wrong?"

Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy's comments regarding the possibility of a Obama/Clinton ticket in November.

Late last week, the senior United States Senator from Massachusetts broke the Democrat-amended Reagan Commandement, "Thou Shalt Not Speak Ill of Another Democrat", when he suggested that New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton did not possess the "real leadership" needed to be Vice President of the United States.

Ted Kennedy, the aging liberal lion of the Democratic Party, took a nasty bite out of Hillary Clinton Friday, saying she shouldn't be vice president because the job requires "real leadership."

Kennedy added that he hoped Obama would choose a running mate who is "in tune with his appeal for the nobler aspirations of the American people.

"And I think if we had real leadership - as we do with Barack Obama - in the number-two spot as well, it'd be enormously helpful," he added.

Source: 5/9/2008 New York Daily News article "As Obama gains superdelegates, Ted Kennedy says Hillary not fit for veep"

The Massachusetts Senator's words were a little bit too much for one of Obama's Illinois colleagues in Congress -- U.S. Representative Rahm Emanuel.

"I have a lot of respect for Ted Kennedy, but I don't know how the hell he comes off saying that," said Mr. Emanuel, who has ties to Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama and has not endorsed in the race. "The gratuitous attack on her is uncalled for and wrong. He is a better senator than that comment reveals." [Source: 5/11/2008 The Caucus/New York Times Political blog "Emanuel to Kennedy: That's Not Nice"]

Seeking to backtrack from his degrading statements against the former First Lady, Sen. Kennedy's office released the following statement:

"Senator Kennedy believes Senator Clinton is qualified to be vice president but doesn't think it's likely given the tenor of the campaign."

Tags: Hillary Clinton (all tags)

Permalink :: 232 Comments :: Post a Comment

Tips & Recs for Rahm Emanuel... (2.00 / 24)

...Standing up and doing what's right when a leader of the Democratic Party is attacked unnecessarily.

by andrewalker08 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:31:46 PM EST

Re: Tips & Recs for Rahm Emanuel... (1.66 / 3)

methinks good old Teddy is hoping he is asked :)

by zerosumgame on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:42:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips &amp; Recs for Rahm Emanuel... (1.50 / 2)

I think quite a few of the past losers are swarming around Obama thinking they will be VP, Kennedy, Kerry and Daschle - his political mentors. Apparently Kennedy thinks he's first in line.

by Justwords on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Point of fact... (2.00 / 2)

Obama is doing unbelievably well with the next generation of Democratic voters.

I don't believe that any of the Dems you mention have V-P aspirations.

I do believe they care about advancing our agenda.

fwiw.

Clinton Democrats care about the same things I do, most importantly beating John McCain.

by TrueBlueCT on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:25:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips &amp; Recs for Rahm Emanuel... (1.00 / 1)

Ted Kennedy is a long term alcoholic who should be voted out of office. He is the walking argument for term limits.

by 07rescue on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:34:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Concern Trolling (none / 0)

Do you live in Massachusetts? Are you registered to vote in the next Massachusetts Senatorial election? Do you have some kind of personal knowledge of your accusations?

No?

That's what I thought. Can we disagree with people without attacking them? Especially fellow Democrats, for Chrissakes!

by auronrenouille on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:45:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips & Recs for Rahm Emanuel... (1.13 / 15)

Chappaquiddick... now that`s a noble story. Go back to the Gin bottle Teddy.

Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime

by gunner on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips &amp; Recs for Rahm Emanuel... (none / 0)

I am not sure why you were troll rated for this. You raise a good point that it's hard to talk about nobility with such a checkered past.

by reggie44pride on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:27:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's the Chappaquiddick thing (none / 0)

and the gin bottle thing. They're both ad-homs agains a generally well-respected Democrat and are not relevant to what he said.

by corph on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:23:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure if he did the same (2.00 / 1)

everytime either Clinton opened their mouth about Senator Obama. Maybe he did and I never saw it reported. Gasp Kennedy said something negative about Clinton after months of Clinton implying if not outright saying the same type of thing about Obama. If he is the PC police I am suprised he was able to take time from holding his little red stop sign up to Clinton to hear what Kennedy said.

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu

by Tumult on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure if he did the same (1.50 / 2)

You got it. None of them could be King so they are settling for a last gasp chance to be King makers.

by Tolstoy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:54:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree. Teddy's attack was unnecessary. (1.50 / 6)

Accurate, but unnecessary.

We don't need Teddy Kennedy to tell us that Hillary is unqualified to be VP.

Hillary has done that herself, because she has proven herself unqualified to be POTUS.

Hillary is unsuited to be Obama's VP for the same reason that Hillary was unsuited to the Democratic nomination: it disarms the Democrats' strongest arguments against McCain, the "supports the Iraq Invasion and Occupation" argument, and the "bad judgement" argument that flows therefrom.

Obama can't put anyone on his ticket who supported the illegal and immoral invasion and occupation of Iraq, unless that person a) realized very early on that they had made a mistake, and 2) vocalized early and often the fact that they had made a mistake, 3) apologized for that mistake, and 4) worked their ass off to reverse that mistake.

Hillary has disqualified herself on all four counts.

In addition, Hillary's campaign, losing the nomination, when a year ago everyone -- including her -- considered that she had an insurmountable edge, to an upstart first term Senator that almost nobody gave any chance of succeeding a year ago, has demonstrated that she is incapable of running a large organization strategically and effectively. Again, that disqualifies her from being POTUS.

There are at this time no rational arguments that can be made to support Hillary over Obama (mostly, arguments of precedent) that do not equally argue that neither of them should be the nominee.

I can think of a few rational arguments for superdelegates to decide that neither Clinton nor Obama are as suitable for the job as some other Democrats might be, but it's going to take some serious turns of events to push them to do anything that drastic.

Ignorance is weakness. Get strong.

by tbetz on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:45:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So Teresa, point out the factual inaccuracies... (2.00 / 1)

... in the post you so boldly troll-rated.

Or are you embarassed that you can not do so?

Ignorance is weakness. Get strong.

by tbetz on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Teresa, point out the factual inaccuracies. (2.00 / 1)

I can't speak for Teresa, but I'll be happy to point out your condescension if you like. Take a look at your response to Josey.

Yes, I am a Clintonista for Obama.

by Denny Crane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:40:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You can't defend Teresa, either. (none / 0)

Josey was also unable to dispute the factual nature of my post; instead, she responded with tired smears.

My reply to those smears was generous, by comparison.

Ignorance is weakness. Get strong.

by tbetz on Mon May 12, 2008 at 07:20:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Poor Josey -- still sticking to long-discredited.. (1.50 / 2)

... distractions. Can't even come up with sources to cite that aren't in-the-tank Clinton blogs. You might as well cite HillaryIs44.

But you just keep pushing them.

Sometimes, even fading dreams can come true.

Ignorance is weakness. Get strong.

by tbetz on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:02:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips & Recs for Rahm Emanuel... (2.00 / 2)

Got to say, Hillary is not my favorite person right now, but that was wrong and completely uncalled for by Ted Kennedy. Shame on him.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips & Recs for Rahm Emanuel... (none / 0)

It's too bad Rahm didnt keep his mouth shut after the 2006 elections. But I agree with him. Ted Kennedy should have kept his mouth shut. I do not want to see Hillary as VP, but Kennedy should shown more tact. Kennedy needs to worry about the senate first.

by Pravin on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:36:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

attacked unnecessarily (1.00 / 1)

Do you mean when the "presumptive" leader of the party, Obama, is unecessarily attacked by an opponent with no mathematical chance of winning by saying, "hard working Americans, white Americans," won't vote for him?

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:43:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: attacked unnecessarily (none / 0)

Come on... Do you honestly think that was what she meant to say... Just like the bitter comments from Obama, she worded it poorly and the poor wording came back to bite her. She phrased it badly, but she isn't a racist or anything like that.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:24:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: attacked unnecessarily (none / 0)

Hillary's no dummy. She was blowing the dog whistle.

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:27:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: attacked unnecessarily (none / 0)

You are being intellectually dishonest in trying to further what you know is a lie from Obama's surrogates.

It is a FACT that exit polls show that working-class, hard-working white Americans are part of Hillary's coalition, her base. That is indisputable.

The LIE comes from trying to extend this to say THAT means that Blacks are NOT hard-working, which is not only stupid, but a lie.

by dembluestates on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: attacked unnecessarily (none / 0)

It was just another of the ongoing attempts by Hillary's campaign to drive a wedge between demographics in the Democratic party.

It stated last year when Bob Kerry claimed Obama attended a madrassa. Then it was floated that Obama had been a ghetto drug dealer. Then he was called the "black candidate." Then Bill Clinton compared his SC win to those of Jesse Jackson. Then Ed Rendell suggested that white people in PA wouldn't vote for Obama.

Now this. It wasn't a slip of the tongue nor a simple statement of fact. It was an attempt to appeal to the worst in some people as a last gasp effort to keep her campaign from finally going all the way under.

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:23:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not about the DNC.... try DLC (none / 0)

That's where Emanuel's (and Hillary's) true allegience lies. Oh, and here ya go, a little insight into nice Mr. Rahm:

On the night after the Clinton (1996) election, "Emanuel was so angry at the president's enemies that he stood up at a celebratory dinner with colleagues from the campaign, grabbed a steak knife and began rattling off a list of betrayers, shouting 'Dead! ... Dead! ... Dead!' and plunging the knife into the table after every name."

by ratmach on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:50:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You tell em! (2.00 / 5)

This is a nice statement by Rahm. I have alot of respect for him as someone who calls bullshit on both the Obama and Clinton campaigns, and I loved his blunt language.

Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008

by zcflint05 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:40:35 PM EST

This is politics. (none / 0)

Of course, Rahm is going to give a olive branch to the Clinton Camp by calling out Kennedy. He already called Obama the 'presumptive nominee'. He is close to both, so of course he will make this statement. But it will not go anywhere.

by tracey webb on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:33:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is politics. (2.00 / 1)

I think that's an excellent point. I was surprised to hear Rahm say that Obama was the likely nominee.

I also agree that Kennedy needn't have spoken ill of Clinton. But it cracks me up that her supporters here are jumping all over a statement that, in its context, is about 1/5 as toxic as her repeated declarations several months back that she and McCain were qualified to be Commander-in-Chief, but Obama wasn't.

If a front-pager at MyDD is going to call out Kennedy for breaking the 11th commandment, I'm interested to know if they did the same when Clinton spewed her C-in-C BS. Or was that "totally different," because it's right and good that opponents in a primary contest should "differentiate themselves" for the voters?

by deminva on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ted Kennedy has no moral authority to judge (2.00 / 8)

any woman under any circumstances.
He is one to talk about leadership after he caved to bush on healthcare and NCLB.

For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!

by TeresaInPa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:44:35 PM EST

Re: Ted Kennedy has no moral authority to judge (1.25 / 4)

I can think of a woman that he judged.

Fight for Democrats in Congress.

by owl06 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ted Kennedy has no moral authority to judge (none / 0)

Is this a Chappaquiddick reference? If so, those uprating it should think about how they'd feel if it was a Vince Foster reference. Both are reprehensible and should not be encouraged.

[ Donate to Barack Obama ]

by semiquaver on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:38:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ted Kennedy has no moral authority to judge (1.00 / 0)

Are you nuts??? Chappaquiddick is a FACT, not a rumor.

by JustJennifer on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:26:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ted Kennedy has no moral authority to judge (none / 0)

It's also true that Obama used drugs as a kid, but it's still character assassination to bring it up.

[ Donate to Barack Obama ]

by semiquaver on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:36:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ted Kennedy has no moral authority to judge (none / 0)

I don't like the reference (if that's what it was - I thought it had more to do with womanizing, which I also don't like), but how in the world is Chappaquidick anything like Vince Foster?

Yes, I am a Clintonista for Obama.

by Denny Crane on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:43:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ted Kennedy has no moral authority to judge (none / 0)

both distract from the issues with negative sensationalism. True, one is unfounded and the other is fact, but we're talking about his choice for VP, not an accident he caused 40 years ago. He has done many good things since then, and trying to discredit him with something that has nothing to do with the current topic is irresponsible.

[ Donate to Barack Obama ]

by semiquaver on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:01:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ted Kennedy has no moral authority to judge (none / 0)

dead is dead.

Fight for Democrats in Congress.

by owl06 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:19:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rahm Emanuel: Kennedy, that (none / 0)

apologize teddy!

I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson

by obamaovermccain on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:44:42 PM EST

here we go again with the half-azz apologies (2.00 / 4)

another voice from an Obama supporter (and I like & respect Kennedy - he is my senator) who makes a azz statement and then uses the meme of "Oh, I have a lot of respect for Sen. Clinton"

how many times has that come out of the Obama camp/surrogates/supporters?

by colebiancardi on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:51:43 PM EST

Re: here we go again with the half-azz apologies (none / 0)

More than I can count. Yesterday it was Steve Cohen and today Teddy. Nasty words, total disrespect, followed by wimpy apology.

by Tolstoy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:00:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: here we go again with the half-azz apologies (2.00 / 0)

You know, I'd have more respect for all of your hyperventilations if you were anywhere to be found when the Clinton campaign were quite directly saying that Obama "had not crossed the commander-in-chief threshold".

But instead of being censured, as Ted Kennedy is rightly being here, he was cheered on. So hurray for Rahm Emanuel. You guys? Eat your crow.

by Jordache on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:50:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A bridge.... (1.21 / 14)

Apparently Kennedy wants to build a bridge to the future. He knows a lot about bridges.

Fight for Democrats in Congress.

by owl06 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:57:49 PM EST

Re: A bridge.... (2.00 / 2)

Ted Kennedy knows a lot about health care. I just wish he had a chance to implement Democratic ideas and ideals. Hillary had her chance. Ted Kennedy is a giant redwood. Others are small saplings. It hurts to lose, but the good Democrats here should get over it and stop doing McCain's dirty work.

by howardpark on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:43:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, Rahm. (2.00 / 8)

As for Kennedy, the press statement is scarcely less insulting than the original statement. Damnation by faint praise indeed.

At least Samantha Power and Steve Cohen said they greatly respected Hillary Clinton after saying ill-advised things about her.

by OrangeFur on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:02:10 PM EST

Re: Thanks, Rahm. (2.00 / 4)

kennedy, um not going there - but rahm said exactly what BO should have said now and for the past months. sigh

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:09:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Rahm. (2.00 / 0)

Obama HAS said that, despite being told again and again that he's not qualified to be Commander-in-chief.

To smile and be magnanimous in the face of insults shows more character than a lot of people have.

by Jordache on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:53:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Rahm. (none / 0)

really he has called out the HRC character assassinations (especially from his surrogates and supporters)? please direct me to where i can go and see. thanks.

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:57:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Every time I see or (1.80 / 5)

hear Uncle Ted now all I can think of is the YouTube clip of Barack saying in '03 that he was getting old and that he needed to grow some spine and fight the Republicans. It is really sad to see him falling on his sword for Barack after Barack insulted him.

I hope Hillary never carpools with Uncle Ted, as Rev. Wright would say he was "riding dirty."

"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."

by LatinoVoter on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:17:23 PM EST

Re: Every time I see or (2.00 / 2)

Riding dirty..ooh I like that one.

Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime

by gunner on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:31:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fell on his sword? (none / 0)

Maybe he just took Obama's advice to heart.

by corph on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:26:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rahm Emanuel: Kennedy, that's " (1.60 / 5)

Given that Hillary said that Obama could not win the GE because he is black, how could she run as his VP? She also does not believe Obama is qualified to be CIC, only she and McCain. So given these two statements I don't think Hillary would run with someone she thinks would not win. the GE. And I doubt that Obama would want to run with someone who has such a poor opinion of him.

by Spanky on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:35:19 PM EST

Re: Rahm Emanuel: Kennedy, that's " (2.00 / 1)

Suits me all to hell

Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime

by gunner on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope she's not planning (1.90 / 10)

a VP slot. As much I love me some Hillary her as VP would be a disaster. We know how much Barack and his followers love to blame Hillary and Bill for everything and with her as VP they'd have all kinds of complaints.

Plus, the more qualified of the two candidates shouldn't have to settle for VP and train her boss. Her Base waited 8 years while she worked her ass off in the Senate to vote for her and I can wait another 4.

"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."

by LatinoVoter on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope she's not planning (2.00 / 1)

She'd never be the nominee in 2012.

My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!

by RLMcCauley on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:09:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure she will. (1.66 / 3)

With her base and all the people she has converted she can run the "I told you so" campaign.

"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."

by LatinoVoter on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:18:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure she will. (2.00 / 0)

Her base has been insufficient to win this year. Why would she do any better in 2012?

My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!

by RLMcCauley on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When Barack (1.80 / 5)

crashes and burns in the GE her base plus the converts who will see she was right all along will be more than enough.

Plus I have a feeling that for the next round they'll revamp the system so that caucuses don't have the importance they have now.

And after the party loses the GE I doubt they'll try to disenfranchise two states again just to give Barack an advantage.

McGovern+Mondale+Dukakis=Obama

"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."

by LatinoVoter on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:28:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When Barack (2.00 / 1)

McGovern + Mondale + Dukakis? You forgot to add "The Chevy Chase Show" + "Gigli" too.

I don't like Obama, so he's everything bad I ever heard of once. Plus he smells.

Regrow some thick skin people. How often has Hillary and Bill outwardly said that Obama isn't qualified to be President. You all say that every 10 minutes.

Boo F'ing Hoo Hillary has to deal with a similar statement. And Obama doesn't speak for Kennedy and Kennedy doesn't speak for Obama. Hillary, on the other hand, speaks for herself, and has had no problem raising questionable -- AT BEST -- comments questioning Obama's leadership, skills, intelligence, etc.

I wish Obama would tell her what she's become -- a sad shell of herself, drained of passion for anything but 'winning.' And then filled to the brim with 100% uncut Chutzpah. I wish a sandbag would fall on her comicly when she's about to go on stage, resulting in whatever amnesiatic stuper she's been in since Super Tuesday to wear off so she can say "where am I; I said THAT about Black voters; me???!!

I wish the Clinton stragglers understood that primary's end, and the time for Obama bashing is over. If she still has an argument for her own candidacy to make, she should make it.

I wish that she should have thicker skin in doing so -- as should everyone here. Because there's enough certitude in his nomination, that her attacks will start bruising more than just Obama, and more than just Obama will be defending him.

But what I wish for never happens.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When Barack (none / 0)

Yeah if he crashes and burns a significant portion of his base will blame her.

My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!

by RLMcCauley on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:52:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fads don't have a base. (1.00 / 1)

Once the novelty of the political equivalent of an iPod wears off his "base" will move on to whatever new shiny object catches their attention.

He's been running for office every four years of his political life because he doesn't have the mental capacity to stay with something. That's why he has no record of his own or causes he's championed you can point to. In four year he'll prolly be bored and be running for God or doing something else.

And whatever "base" he has left will be completely irrelevant as they'll be seen as the ones that snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."

by LatinoVoter on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:09:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure she will. (1.50 / 2)

what the hell are you talking about? her base is much broader and includes the swing voters we actually need to win a general. Obama has blacks, who are guaranteed for the Democrat anyway and not swing voters, and young people who also barely come out, and when they do, they go Dem anyway. Obama has the McGovern base.

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure she will. (1.71 / 7)

Right. Because us Blacks are fucking robots.

My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!

by RLMcCauley on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sad little troll raters. (none / 0)

My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!

by RLMcCauley on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:18:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sad little troll raters. (none / 0)

Get over it Esquire.

by reggie44pride on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:39:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure she will. (none / 0)

Wow. The Us vs. Them mentality of the remaining Clinton folks is stunning.

You really think Hillary openly dismissing the importance of blacks, the youth and those inspired by Obama's candidacy as less important because they're more reliable... will really help keep those people reliable? What a great public explanation of the calculus that has made "change" -- define it as you like -- needed. This triangulation crap has got to go.

A party can appeal to all, even if the candidate doens't appeal immediately to everyone. Bill Clinton didn't appeal to New York in the primary (see Primay Colors for a funny depiction) but oddly enough, 8 years later, Hillary becomes the state's JR senator precisely because of her strength in NYC.

Just goes to show...

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:23:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure she will. (2.00 / 1)

she is not "dissing" the importance of the blacks and youth, be she is not making them the ONLY voters whose voters matter for a nominee. They matter, but because they are likely to go Democrat, and we have gotten clobbered with working class whites and not done as well with Latinos as Bill Clinton did, we have LOST elections. THOSE are the voters we need to work harder to court, if we had not been doing well with them in the past. Obama and his crew are the ones dissing the importance of getting new voters, meaning voter demographic groups who haven't voted Democrat in recent elections back to the Democratic party. By losing the white vote by 17 points in 2004 and only winning Latinos 53-44 instead of Clinton's 74-22, John Kerry lost 2004. We don't need a repeat. We should hedge our bets. While young voters are important to have, considering they are important but come out less to vote, and have done so consistently over many years, and they didn't get McGovern close to the White House, we should shift emphasis to put it more on Latinos, who we need to win BIG with to win, and white voters, who we have gotten clobbered with in the last 40 years, and the only 2 Dems to win the White House since, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter both gotten within 5 points of beating the Republican in the white vote. Al Gore would have secured wins in 2000 if he had done better with whites, instead of losing by 13, enough likely to have possibly won NH, MO, or even TN and never mind Florida. We need to go after voters we haven't done as well with before, not preach to the converted. If Obama could get working white voters and Latinos, then he'd be perfect because he could continue getting blacks and young voters. But he's not doing those well, so he's a one trick pony. Hillary is more likely to do well with Obama's demographic groups in a general election than Obama with Hillary's. That is what I am saying. The problem is with this process, anything less than politically correct is called "racist."

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:37:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure she will. (none / 0)

If he was a one-trick pony, would he be winning the nomination?

If he were a one-trick pony, would he have won in many states without a significant African American presence?

If he were... GOD, I'm so tired of having to explain this. No one is calling her racist for discussing demographics... she's being called racist for calling black people lazy. Seeing as how many bigots already view blacks as shiftless, lazy and unreliable, isn't that the real meaning of her dog whistle about Hardworking Americans, White Americans? Isn't that at the core of this whole argument -- blacks aren't enough, we can't win with blacks alone, they'll vote for us anyway -- that blacks aren't as important? Seeing as presidents were elected without the benefit of blacks for years-- without concent, seeing as how if the black vote was split or less enthusiastic, Democrats would have few if any candidates elected, seeing as how blacks are historically the recipient of election mischeif -- don't you see the danger in her comments? Don't you see how those comments ALONE are enough to ensure she should be on no ticket EVER since she has ensured that blacks now understand that in the political calculus they once again matter less than whites. Whites who always get the attention in the elections. Whites who always get their preferred candidates and always get their issues up front and center.

And finally, that a black candidate has won with both whites and blacks, (and youth and elderly and many other delightfully non-white male demographics) the argument is "well, that's still not enough. It's not enough to give the white voters what they want over everything else EVERY YEAR, but let's use that as a reason to scuttle what analysists say they DONT WANT. Blacks won't care! They like being treated like crap.

Hillary poisioned her own well. If the democrats lose the black vote, it's over for us. Forever. It's that simple.

White blue collar voters are nice. But you can't pick and choose one group over the other. That's called a wedge. Hillary isn't just exploiting one, but exacerbating it, and deserves to lose forever for doing so.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:53:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's a one trick pony. (1.00 / 0)

All he's ever done his political life is run for office and get elected. That's why his record here in Illinois consists of bills that were jacked from other legislators and given to Barack to put his name on them.

"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."

by LatinoVoter on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's a one trick pony. (1.00 / 0)

you forgot the bills he voted "present" on.

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:39:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I stand corrected. (1.00 / 0)

He's got two tricks.

"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."

by LatinoVoter on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:40:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

when did she call blacks lazy? (none / 0)

and whats wrong with calling whites hard working? They are the forgotten demographic group in American and Democratic politics. Every and party always is courting minorities, the latino vote, the cuban vote, the asian vote, the black vote, but Democrats never court the white vote. I don't think here comments were well worded, but she did not say anything wrong or racist. They came off badly, but she is saying what really needs to be said. If kerry and Gore courted the white votes more, they'd have won. Kerry could have gotten 4 more percent of the white vote and won the 2004 popular vote, meaning 93% chance of winning that election.

And when you talk of Obama winning in states with few blacks, he wins in small caucus ultra red states where the extremely few Dems who exist there only voted for him a. because they were the only guys on the ground, and b. because their states have gone GOP for so long the figure why not try someone new. And those were all before Jeremiah Wright and Obama's "typical white person" speech. Watch Obama get clobbered in those states come November, when they count.

This is a political contest, not a feel good nice nice thing to make blacks, who make up only 12 percent of the US populace the all important center of the universe. Whites are the MAJORITY and yes their choices of candidates and issues are going to come first, because there are 7 times as many in this country overall than blacks. However, I do appreciate black voters and don't take them for granted. But we can't accomodate only them at the expense of everyone else. Obama has been floundering with whites in his own party, who are supposed to be more liberal than the overall electorate, in RECENT CONTESTS, and its where you end up, not where you start, as Wright and "typical white person" weren't around during Virginia and Iowa. If it had been, he'd have been a goner. he'd have never gotten close the nomination.

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:21:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when did she call blacks lazy? (none / 0)

"I do appreciate black voters and don't take them for granted. But we can't accomodate only them at the expense of everyone else"

Yeah, that's been happening a lot over the last 230 years. /snark

by shalca on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:20:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when did she call blacks lazy? (none / 0)

we can accomodate them WHEN we get to office. But we can't get to office if say "fuck you" to all the other demographic groups, whites, working class whites, Latinos, women, and only please the blacks and Mcgovernite college students who won't even come out this fall.

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:55:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when did she call blacks lazy? (none / 0)

I find it interesting that Obama doing well with blacks somehow constitutes an "F You" to all other groups.

Does the fact that Hillary gets 10% of the black vote constitute an F You to the black community?

And in case you're wondering, Hillary didn't say "white americans who happen to be hard working," she said Obama's support among "working americans, hard working americans white americans is weakening."

These aren't three seperate demographic groups. It was ugly and wrong. Jerome talks about "Clinton hate" (frankly, one sees what one wants, I get only the reverse here) but I think I see a little of what he's getting at.

I do hate Hillary Clinton 2008 -- not because of what she's said to Obama or her campaign per se -- but what her campaign has done to Hillary Clinton 1992-2007 -- when she was a lion among sheep. I don't know what happened, but seeing her demean not just herself, but everything she's worked for with this quality of comment, re-imagining of herself as Everything Obama Is Not, despite it being everything she is not...

It's been a demeaning process, and her lack of self-awareness in pursuit of the crown has just made it all the more demeaning. She's supposed to be the smartest one in the class -- and yet, she bungled and bungled and blamed and blamed.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:26:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when did she call blacks lazy? (none / 0)

there was a comma between "hard working americans" and "white americans" and it was clearly a list. You guys just played the race card on her and spun it because she dared to mention that white americans are a demographic and people too. Of course they are separate groups. The "hard working" ones meant ALL hard working Americans, black, white, latino, asian, etc. You just spun it and played the race card on her. She never called blacks lazy once. If they thought she did, then they got self esteem issues.

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:43:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when did she call blacks lazy? (none / 0)

riiiiiiiight.

by shalca on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:39:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when did she call blacks lazy? (none / 0)

Clearly a list. Because, you know, the exit polls differentiate between "working Americans", "hard working Americans" and "white Americans."

Oh, wait. No. The exit polls differentiate between race, education and earnings. She's citing a statistical analysis weighted in her favor showing support among less educated, lower-earning Whites.

A single demographic. It's her point. The so-called "Reagan Democrats." She didn't use that term, she used "working americans, hard working americans, white americans" to define these people. Now, sure, maybe she would have said "Working Americans, Hard Working Americans, Black Americans" in talking about Obama's support -- and just didn't have time. But instead she just said blacks...

...and spin away. The proof is in the dog whistle.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:48:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when did she call blacks lazy? (none / 0)

FYI -- accomidate them WHEN you get into office? I'm sure the black community, NEVER EVER having heard THAT one before, would gladly take that as a comfort.

I'm sure most blacks would then agree, please, go ahead and campaign for the blue collar whites. It's about time whites got some unabashed supporters on Capital Hill. Totally the forgotten demographic.

Won't someone PLEASE think about the Whites? PLEASE?

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:52:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She'd never be the nominee in 2012. (none / 0)

As I heard the inestimable Willie Brown say the other day, "We Democrats don't hang with losers like the Republicans do."

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:47:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope she's not planning (none / 0)

Amen! I'm with you on this...should she not get the CIC...we can wait! She can do more good in the Senate...

by Cruiser35 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope she's not planning (2.00 / 0)

Hillary Clinton will never be the nominee, now or in the future. She lost this year and in doing so alienated one of the most important constituencies the Democratic party has. She will not get African American voters back in 2012 if Obama goes on to lose, because she would have been complicit in softening him up and driving up his negatives for McCain. But I think the more likely scenario is that Obama wins in 2008, and by 2016 Clinton will have long passed the point of relevancy.

by Headlight on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope she's not planning (none / 0)

My hope for 2012, is with both O'bama and Hillary's aspirations hitting a wall, my man JRE will make another run. O'bama will have joined the democratic one and done, club, and can set around discussing what might have been, with McGovern, and the rest of one time democratic standard bearers, Hillary will realise she can never overcome the Clinton hating majority in her party, leaving the field to a real Populist.
JRE in 2012!

by muggle on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She did not alienate AA voters - (none / 0)

sure, she did not pull them from Obama but that is something else than alienating them. It was Obama who wanted to make this campaign about race and who has made it about race. As such he has driven a wedge into this party that I think was a huge mistake - casting his own premature ambition to run for the WH ahead of the good of the party.

by Molee on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She did not alienate AA voters - (none / 0)

So he should have waited his turn? Sorry, I thought we lived in a democracy.

by shalca on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:22:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She did not alienate AA voters - (none / 0)

so true, thank god someone said it. he made it about race by even running, because he has no issues, has no qualifications, no real causes, thus the only thing he really brings is the prospect of being "the first black president" so as to galvinize the black community, turn on PC white students, and thus be able to cast his opponent, Hillary, who has achieved things in her life and has qualifications and knows government as a racist.

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:59:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She did not alienate AA voters - (none / 0)

Is this satire? Are you being satiricle, funny, hilarious, belly-fulla-laughing? Because claiming Obama made it about race... because he's of a different race is just, officially, the most ridiculous thing I have ever read outside of a Chick tract.

Seriously -- if you think what you've said up there is true, I don't know the point of typing anything more. You've hit some kind of rarified air in this tragic of an argument. I think only a claim that Obama is a manchurian candidate brainwashed by al Qaeda would be more ridiculous -- but at least then you'd be laughed out of town on a hilarious hilarious rail.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:32:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She did not alienate AA voters - (none / 0)

Jesse Jackson's "hillary didn't cry for black people," Michelle's "blacks will come to their senses," spinning Bill's comments about Obama's "fairy tale" stance on the Iraq War, calling Hillary's comment about how LBJ get civil rights somehow insulting to MLK and thus being racist, yea his ilk made it about race. The Jesse Jackson comment was completely called for, and it was right. OF COURSE Obama is going to win SC, as the blacks make up most or a huge part of the Democrats and will vote for their own after seeing him in Iowa. It just came off poorly and the Obama campaign and the media spun it.

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:40:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She did not alienate AA voters - (none / 0)

Ilk?

Really? That the word you're going for here? Cuz with the fake michelle quote, and use of Jesse Jackson comment without context or mention of the fact that Jesse Jackson speaks only for Jesse Jackson... and then using the word "ilk..." well. It just says it all, don't it?

Let's just say your comments this evening came off poorly, and it doesn't take the media to spin it for that to be obvious.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:44:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Kennedy, that's Uncalled for and Wrong (2.00 / 2)

I have lost so much respect for "Teddy" Kennedy, it's not even funny. Actions and his WORDS speak volume.

by LindaSFNM on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:36:20 PM EST

Re: Kennedy, that's Uncalled for and Wrong (2.00 / 1)

actions, you mean such as killing a young woman by driving her off a bridge?

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's what you and Limbaugh say. (1.00 / 0)

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:48:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's what you and Limbaugh say. (1.00 / 0)

What's up with you kobi? Are you denying Ted Kennedy's past? Or does he get a free pass for being a rich kid from you too?

by JustJennifer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's what you and Limbaugh say. (2.00 / 0)

As I said to another Limbot upthread, when Democrats attack their own with GOP smears, they are truly bankrupt.

But with Hillary as a role model ("hard working Americans, white Americans") it lessens the blame somewhat.

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:42:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's what you and Limbaugh say. (1.00 / 0)

IT IS NOT A SMEAR. It is fact. What a copout. Ted Kennedy stands for what the Democrats are supposed to oppose - rich white guys who get away with "murder" because they can. Just like the Republicans. I can't believe any progressive with a conscious would defend someone with such an egregious history against women.

by JustJennifer on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:52:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's what you and Limbaugh say. (1.00 / 1)

i don't think Ted has anything in general against women. It could have been a male in the car with him that night. Its just fun to bring up Chappaquiddick when he does stupid shit like his '80 run and his Obama sellout/comments like this. I doubt he really meant to murder Mary Jo like he did.

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:01:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's what you and Limbaugh say. (1.00 / 0)

It's not just what happened to Mary Jo. And sure it could have been a man in the car but there was a girl in the car and she was there for a reason.. Also the thing with his nephew was pretty disgusting. The Kennedys in general don't have the greatest history when it comes to respecting women. And I am pretty sure Joan Kennedy could add some colorful commentary to that. I just don't like the guy - he represents everything that is wrong with the Democratic party to me. White, rich guy in charge and virtually "untouchable" no matter what. Like I said if Ted Kennedy was a poor black man he would still be in prison today. Injustice is wrong no matter what your last name is.

by JustJennifer on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:10:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's what you and Limbaugh say. (2.00 / 0)

What Cappaquiddick has to do with Kennedy's comment about Hillary for VP is what has me scatching my head. And it's even harder to understand why a few people are so outraged that he said she shouldn't get 2nd place when they keep insisting she'll win anyway.

Are they really hoping for #2 for her?

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:29:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's what you and Limbaugh say. (1.00 / 0)

because he's not only already a convicted killer who got a suspended 2 year sentence, but he is killing party unity by saying such a thing about half of the voter's candidate. Not that I think the ticket would be a good idea, as it may present too much change for people, and black and white woman on the same ticket. But he still insulted Hillary by saying she doesn't count as "leadership" on the bottom of the ticket.

"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States

by DiamondJay on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:37:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There's an echo in here (1.00 / 0)

but of whom?

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:12:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's an echo in here (none / 0)

Jaysus man I didn't even know Limbaugh had a hard on for Ted Kennedy. In fact you seem to know a lot more about Limbaugh than I do. I have never listened to his show. All I know is he is a big fat idiot who used his maid to fuel his addiction to pain killers - hey another rich white guy who got away with a crime because of their status. Yep, he is a total pig too.

You do realize it is possible to be incensed by injustice against women without listening to Limbaugh - who by the way is no champion for the women's causes?

by JustJennifer on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:15:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's an echo in here (none / 0)

I only know what I just googled. You seem to know him well enough to quote from memory.

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:20:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's an echo in here (none / 0)

Quote who? Did Limbaugh break open the Chappaquidick story? News to me. Everyone knows what happened to Mary Jo Kopechne. She will never breathe another breath, never get married, have children, have grandchildren.. her parents never got to see her again. Because of Ted Kennedy. I think Limbaugh was probably a teenager then. What does he have to do with what happened?

by JustJennifer on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:25:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's an echo in here (2.00 / 0)

Limbaugh uses Chappaquiddick as a diversionary attack whenever Kennedy can't be beaten on the facts -- just as you and some others are doing.

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:31:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's an echo in here (1.00 / 0)

I don't care about his comments regarding Clinton. I care that he got away with letting that young girl die. I guess a lot of people seem to have gotten past that and have some sort of respect for the guy but I never will.

by JustJennifer on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:33:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's an echo in here (none / 0)

Whatever.

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:38:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's an echo in here (none / 0)

Yes indeed. Whatever.

by JustJennifer on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:50:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's an echo in here (none / 0)

Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129

by Kobi on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:35:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]