MyDD :: No one is going to 'get over it'[UPDATE]

No one is going to 'get over it'[UPDATE]

by linc, Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:01:26 PM EST

Especially when the reaction to deep seeded statement of belief is meant to open rather than close wounds.

Chances are that Obama will win this primary- those are the odds. But no matter how much you want it to be the opposite, those are just odds. Hillary Clinton is still in this race and she is in it to win it, hell, its half the reasoning behind much of the support she has- at least its half the reason I support her.

Throughout this primary, there have been so many accusations against Hillary Clinton, so many that I have lost count and I stopped updating my list a while ago. Hillary Clinton has been called, among other things, a racist, unethical and petty (those are just the generalizations, if you are reading this, you know to what I refer). Now, if you were a Hillary supporter, how would you take this sort of criticism of your candidate? How would you react? What sort of strong opinions would you hold about the media or about the opposition?

Obama and the Obama campaign HAS had a free pass on many things, in the mind of the Clinton supporter (yep, most certainly in the mind of this Clinton supporter too). It seems the mission of many Obama supporters as of late is just to rub it in- denying the obvious, such as the insane amount of Hillary hate that has dominated this campaign, for instance.

At this point in time, as an Obama supporter, your goal should be to win over hearts and minds, not to rub in a very fresh and sore wound. If you are unable to bring yourself to do so, then your goal should be to be quite. If you truly believe that Obama has won this thing, then you have nothing to worry about and your silence will serve you far more than your voice at this point in time. If you must use your voice, go on the attack against McCain, this place and many blogs have been quite devoid of McCain and it's about time we get to it (this last bit is for everyone, myself included).

For me, as I have stated before, I will probably never forgive Obama for the race-baiting that his campaign engaged in- actually, I know that I will never personally forgive him for it. However, I have already politically forgiven him. I will most certainly vote for him in November if he is the nominee, I can think of no other alternative. I, like you, and 99.9% of all real Hillary supporters on this site, am a Democrat to the bone. You don't need to worry about convincing me to carry water for your guy if he wins the nomination, it was and should never have been about that.

So, when you are about ready to lambast the Hillary supporters around here with your knowledge and oh so gracious `winning' attitude, please refrain. In the end, no matter who wins the nomination, it will most certainly do more harm than good- if all it does is prolong the infighting.

Here is a list of things you will never change my mind on, so, your efforts are futile:

Obama engaged in race-baiting during this campaign. Hillary Clinton did not.
The media has been extremely biased in Obama's favor, it won't last if Obama gets the nomination (although I would love to be proven wrong on this one. No, NOT BY YOU, but by the media).
Obama tossed queers under a bus and never apologized for it.
Hillary Clinton is not racist, either is Obama for that matter.
I don't buy into the `change and hope' thing, never will. Never needed hope or a desire to change- I have both in spades. THIS IS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE A REASON I VOTE FOR OBAMA. So, please, stop telling me to `get hope.'
This race is not over until Hillary Clinton drops out. Neither candidate will meet the magic number with pledge delegates alone. Supers do not vote until the convention. End of story.
Hillary Clinton would be a far better general election candidate than Obama.
Hillary Clinton would be a far better POTUS than Obama.
If Obama is the nominee, I will vote for him- no matter how hard Obama supporters try to change my mind.

Now do I have any faith or remote belief that any Obama supporter will heed this advice? None whatsoever, but like my candidate, I am not afraid to try.

Update [2008-5-11 16:28:26 by linc]: Just sos yous knows, this diary is in no way, shape or form a redaction of my support for Hillary. I have and will be making calls into WV and KY and OR. She is in it to win it and so am I- thems the facts.

Give her some bread (made from dough) so she doesn't have to run home and bake it herself!

Call her friends, we know she has a lot of them and girls sure do love to talk....

Stand with her!

She IS going to be the next president of the United States!

Tags: Clinton, Obama (all tags)

Permalink :: 53 Comments :: Post a Comment

Please (2.00 / 3)

feel free to prove me wrong on that last point-

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:02:55 PM EST

Re: Please (2.00 / 3)

When it comes down to it, #9 on your list is the most important. I may not agree with you on everything, but when it comes to electing the Democratic nominee, we are in agreement. Those other things are secondary.

That makes us allies, for better or worse.

Check out McCain.

by you like it on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep (none / 0)

and thats the real point- I really don't see how any of us have forgotten it...

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:16:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (none / 0)

Actually I agree with you completely until number 9. No way can I do this, and it's not about 'hurt feelings' or not being a 'real' Democrat. It's about not being subject to what I consider the ultimate and lowest form of blackmail by folks who continuously say things like 'either you vote for our candidate, or you force continuation of the war, or bring back clotheshangers , blah blah blah'. Sorry, the attempts of folks to 'shame' me into voting for the candidate who should be the poster child for the most shamful Democratic candidate in recent history will not work.

These are truly the folks who will say anything to win.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:58:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please (2.00 / 3)

yeah, people bought it. in 1992. when Bill Clinton was running. as the man from Hope. I was 5 then, so I'm one of those "kidz" you're talking about (does the z make it more X-TREME?), which makes it kinda funny I know your history better than you do.

John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.

by terra on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:25:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please (2.00 / 1)

Unlike Obama, Bill Clinton was actually from a town called Hope.

did you miss that?

by colebiancardi on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry to have to school you (2.00 / 2)

but Bill ran as an EXPERIENCED outsider with hope as part of his theme. You were five, I forgive you lack of knowledge that Bill had been a very successful several term governor of an entire state.

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry to have to school you (2.00 / 3)

did you know that he was slammed for not being experienced enough by the Republicans, which is one of the things that brought on this statement?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMlrSG1xb 5k

John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.

by terra on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:33:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry to have to school you (none / 0)

of course he was slammed by republicans. What did you think, love kisses? Do you think Obama, with less experience (being a state senator is not the same as a governor) will be greeted with flowers & candy?

the difference is that BC locked the nomination by getting above & beyond the votes needed. He was not in a tight, divided primary (you can protest all you want, but it is tight & divided) amongst his OWN KIND.

by colebiancardi on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The difference is (none / 0)

that many Obama supporters have viewed this campaign as if they were running against a Republican opponent- yeah, I know! Its hilarious! I hope the have the stomach for it if Obama gets the nomination.

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:40:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A governor of a small state versus (none / 0)

a President who won an Iraq War, spent 8 years as VP and was CIA director.

Being governor was no big draw in my book even though I voted for him in 92 and 96.

If you're going to give Bill props for that, did you give Dubya credit for being governor of Texas?

I sure didn't. So let's be consistent.

I voted for Bill on the "change" and "hope" over 12 years of Reagan. There's no problem with voting for "change" and "hope" over the last 8 years of Bush (and to a certain extent, the sour taste of the last 2 years of Clinton).

by Regenman on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:59:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please (none / 0)

I agree that #9 is really all that matters. It's pretty pointless to relitigate the other explosive issues that have come up during this primary.

The bottom line, for me at least, is that either Senator Clinton or Senator Obama will be a huge improvement over the current president and the guy running for his third term. The only time I get frustrated around her is when folks portray McCain as the best remaining choice.

by HSTruman on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

many (none / 0)

have already gotten over it.

You should try speaking for yourself.

As for your list...

1-8 mean squat.

by ameridad on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:06:18 PM EST

In case you missed (2.00 / 1)

I was speaking for myself and how I feel- noted that several times in the diary and well... its a diary!

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In case you missed (none / 0)

Really, I would have thought you were talking for all Clinton supporters by the title of your diary. I guess if I were just talking about myself I would have said 'I' as oppose to 'no one'

by reggie23 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 05:24:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In case you missed (none / 0)

I read on another thread today that excessive use of I is an indication of fascism. He's probably trying to avoid that tag.

by Mobar on Sun May 11, 2008 at 05:31:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you always (none / 0)

judge a book by its cover?

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 05:39:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No one is going to 'get over it' (2.00 / 2)

I'm not going to call on any Clinton supporter to change how they feel about this race, Obama, or his supporters as long as they're voting for the candidate with a D next to their name in November.

And if Clinton steals this thing from Obama (or at least that's my interpretation) I'll still vote for her, regardless of my opinion of her.

Great to read a diary like this.

Voting for John McCain is not God bless America.

by SFValues on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:07:46 PM EST

Missed a month (2.00 / 3)

I'm going to assume you missed a month of the MSM trying to derail Obama's run using his pastor?

"The best way to show that a stick is crooked is not by arguing about it or spending time denouncing it, but to lay a straight stick alongside it" -DL Moody

by nextgen on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:09:05 PM EST

Too little too late (2.00 / 1)

Furthermore, for every media talking head taking the negative view, there were one or more rallying to his defense.

by lombard on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:13:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Missed a month (2.00 / 1)

compared to how months of the MSM insulting and derailing Hillary?

cry me a river

by colebiancardi on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nope (2.00 / 3)

also didn't miss the bit, happened a couple of times, where the media gave Obama a pass on it. I have no probably with Wright- to be completely honest. I wouldn't go to his church- I don't do hate in any form, but I agree with many of the sentiments he is going after. However, Democrats in the Democratic primary were and are not the folks that will be persuaded by Wright's... comments. We were never a population to worry about. Wright will come back, especially if Obama is the nominee and we will have to be prepared for it.
I find it fascinating how little faith Obama supporters have in their fellow Democrats- sometimes, I am even surprised that you all bother at all- its like we all haven't been voting and organizing and giving money to Dems for the last 8 years- just as much as you all have.

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ditto back (none / 0)

Same deal applies to the squalling from the other side. See the irony of all your posts?

by Regenman on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:00:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Take your time (2.00 / 2)

I am a strong Hillary supporter. I have decided to wait before jumping on any bandwagon. I plan to wait and watch the process unfold. There is no hurry to make a decision. At this stage that is the only leverage we have. I would not give the satisfaction to people that tormented me that they can take for granted my Vote. I would give the same advice to all Hillary supporters.

You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat

by indydem99 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:20:00 PM EST

Nah (2.00 / 3)

I am a democrat before I am a Hillary supporter. In fact, I was an Obama supporter before I was a Hillary supporter! Go figure- the race-baiting and the McClurkin thing threw me off.

Either way, I am not giving up on anyone. I intend to send the Hillary a few bucks when she kicks butt in West Virginia. Maybe I should make that more clear..

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nah (none / 0)

I have been a Democrat for a long time. I am not trying to influence you. Obama supportes in general seem to have a very low opinion about Hillary and her supporters.

You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat

by indydem99 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:31:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, I know (none / 0)

But we still need to win this thing in November... I have strong hopes that Hillary will get the nomination- she is going to get MI and FL seated and she is about to alter the narrative, if only slightly in WV and KY and maybe even OR. Its a long, long summer. I don't see her going any where until August- she might 'suspend' campaigning, but thats it.

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:35:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nah (2.00 / 2)

Not to butt in, but it's worth remembering that online supporters of either candidate are not really representative of that candidate's general support. Let alone the candidate themself.

This Obama supporter, at the very least, does not hate Senator Clinton at all. Most of the Obama supporters that I interact with on a daily basis feel the same way.

by HSTruman on Sun May 11, 2008 at 05:00:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No one is going to 'get over it' (2.00 / 1)

If you're voting for Obama if he's the nominee, I don't think anyone needs to convince you of anything. Best regards to you and your favored candidate, and thanks for unity. I disagree on most of your points and go expound at length, as I'm sure anyone with a strong candidate opinion could, but I've always thought beating McCain was more important.

by mattw on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:28:26 PM EST

Re: No one is going to 'get over it' (2.00 / 2)

I don't care how much people have to grit their teeth to vote for Obama, as long as they do it. I know I'd be weeping all the way to the polls if I had to vote for Clinton, but the life of my dear friend in Iraq is worth far more than my petty grievances. if something happened to him because people were so bitter they allowed McCain to become president, I'd never forgive those who allowed him in and thus the war to continue on interminably.

John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.

by terra on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:28:36 PM EST

Re: No one is going to 'get over it'[UPDATE] (none / 0)

Terra, well, you might want to let the unforgiving begin.

by Check077 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:39:11 PM EST

Re: No one is going to 'get over it'[UPDATE] (none / 0)

I have heard this many times but when has Obama ever called Hillary or her husband racists?

I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson

by obamaovermccain on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:46:48 PM EST

Re: No one is going to 'get over it'[UPDATE] (none / 0)

I once asked a Hillary supporter to enlighten me on numbers 1 and 2 above (among other things) because I don't watch a lot of tv and couldn't discern much from the comments on this site.

While I got TRed for those questions (the first and only time I've ever been TRed), no one felt the need to answer them for me.

I read the campaign's websites, did a little of my own research, attempted to see both candidates speak (after everyone else dropped out) when they came to my city (but only saw Obama because Hillary was a no-show twice) and formed my opinion.

I see a lot of anger around here, and I honestly don't know where it's coming from. I don't hate Hillary, I have no reason to. And I honestly see no reason for anyone to hate Obama, but thats probably because I don't watch enough tv.

If anyone wants to enlighten me on numbers 1 and 2, feel free. It's not going to make me hate anybody, but it would be nice to understand where all this hate (from both sides) is coming from.

John McCain smells like mothballs.

by asherrem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:48:23 PM EST

The first one is (none / 0)

a point of political logic. Who, in a Democratic primary would it better serve if Hillary Clinton was known to be 'race-baiting'? If you think Clinton, then you think two things: 1. There are a lot of racists in the Democratic party that are willing to vote in the primary and 2. They needed Hillary Clinton's campaign to tell them that Obama is black. Me, I think better of my Democratic fellows.

Here is ONE instance of JJ Jr. playing the race card

Now, Clinton was required to denounce every single supposed association that made a comment that could be even remotely tied back to race. What happened to JJ Jr? Ah, nothing.

To the second point, since you don't watch TV its hard for you to develop a judgment on it- I only really watch the news- I know, political junkie loser. Anyway, there are numerous studies showing that the media has been quite in Obama's favor over Clinton. Here is one Now, I think there was ONE study that went the other way, you could probably look for it on Dailykos... However, there have been several that have said the media has been particularly biased against Clinton.

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:03:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The first one is (none / 0)

Thank you!

I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions :)

(And I didn't even get a TR, holy moly)

John McCain smells like mothballs.

by asherrem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:24:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No matter what (none / 0)

Clinton deserves a big thanks for putting up with the insults, the name calling, the counting her out time and again.

And I think HRC supporters here also deserve a thanks also putting up with the onslaught of Obama supporter hillary hate. Where you can, uprate those supporters who still are being attacked for not only speaking their mind, but talking about issues that are still important no matter what candidate one supports.

by 4justice on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:58:07 PM EST

Threw Gays Under the Bus? (none / 0)

If this was true, I would be against Obama completely. That said, I know it isn't true and it is unfair of you (and others) to keep repeating that mantra.

on Doma:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2007/08/would-obama-pos.html

On the issues:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Barack _Obama.htm

Open letter to the GLBT Community:
http://www.gayrightswatch.com/2008/02/ba rack-obamas-letter-to-gay-lesbian.html

accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking

by Sychotic1 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 05:27:09 PM EST

Obama (none / 0)

let Donnie McClurkin go out, on stage, at a campaign event and lambast queers. Obama then let him continue on the tour and has not apologized for it. Thats enough for me.

I am queer. Its offensive. McClurkin should not have been on that tour to begin with and he should not have been allowed to continue. Obama should have apologized.

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 05:51:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was around for that (none / 0)

and I think it was a mistake on his part, but he has also been a big supporter and his policies are actually just a smidge better than Clinton's in regard to the GLBT community.

accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking

by Sychotic1 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:10:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just a smidge- maybe (none / 0)

I think she is just being a bit more politically honest. What I don't appreciate, is being used a political fodder- there was no need for it. Clinton has done no such thing- I appreciate it. Anyway, its just one of many factors for me moving away from Obama and towards Hillary. I know that this election is not about queer issues and that if it were, both candidates would be screwed- I can live with that as long as it means a Dem in January.

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:13:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, I tend to take them at their written (none / 0)

and spoken word. In this YouTube age, anything they say they are going to support is going to come back to haunt them if they don't follow through. What I mean is, if legislation comes to a Prez Obama desk that is in-line with his written/spoken promises, he is up for a little piece of hell if he were to veto it.

Remember, if he wins, Obama is going to run again in four years...he can't afford to alienate any of his constituencies or go back on any of his positions.

accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking

by Sychotic1 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:24:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama (none / 0)

not just that 1, there has been a pattern of at least 3 homophobic black preachers Obama's got in his campaign. it's absolutely disgusting! absolutely what I've come to expect from the wingers, but not from any DEM! disgusting.

by swissffun on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:24:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No one is going to 'get over it'[UPDATE] (1.00 / 2)

Im sick of white people accusing black people of race baiting. Obama patiently took it while Hillary the political succubus invoked Farakahn, had her Archie Bunker wing tell us its a lucky thing to be black, andhad her man whore husband belittle Barack, and just now telling me only whites are the kind of hard workers in her coaalition - waiting for clarification - silence defeaning. To all of you who wont vote for Barack. To heck with you may you get the world you deserve

by Adept2u on Sun May 11, 2008 at 05:31:56 PM EST

What an awful (none / 0)

thing to say. Sorry I made you mad. I am sick of being called a racist by association- go figure, we both can't stand be associated with what we believe in our hearts not to be true...

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 05:41:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who's to say you aren't a bigot? (none / 0)

Not a flame.

Just wondering how many black candidates you have voted for in your lifetime. How many African Americans represent you directly in Congress?

At the very least, I have 3 women representing me in Congress (Eshoo, Boxer and Feinstein).

Just an anecdote, my mother claims she isn't a racist or bigot because she has black "friends" at work. Well, these friends are never invited over to the house and my mom has explicitly said that she will not vote for a black man for POTUS. That sentiment is quite strong among 1st generation Asians that I've talked to. So what is this phenomenon? What do we call it when our parents say they'll disinherit us if we don't marry an Asian or a Caucasian?

I won't even delve into how first generation Asians perceive homosexuality...

by Regenman on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who's to say you aren't a bigot? (none / 0)

Let me extend it further. It's not even marrying Asians. We're only suppose to marry certain nationalities of Asians as well.

But all white folks are acceptable. Go figure.

by Regenman on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:11:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What is this, nonracist cred time? (none / 0)

I am sorry, but measuring the amount of people of color one has voted for is not a good measure of whether or not a person is a bigot.

by linc on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]