Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't all racists.

Note to folks who I invited back to chat this weekend. Will be back in either tonight or tomorrow night. Looking forward to "reading" you! 12 dogs.

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Now the diary entry for today.
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I know that this is a website for folks who are very much into politics. You may wonder, "What the heck?!?!" When you read this diary entry. The voters of this world come from all different views. Some come from politics from the "cafe society" of a university town. Some come from the kitchens of middle of nowhere in Alabama. There is a real opportunity to learn from both places. We all dine at the table of life. Some with haute cuisine some with paper bag lunches. We are all Americans.

Everyone welcome.

This diary is different. It comes from the perspective of what I know. Where I grew up. I keep talking about the South here. I do it because of my own personal experiences. I'll speak in my southern voice. The voice I have heard and the voice I know.

Not pretenting to be someone else. LOL. Kind of the opposite.

Welcome.

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Hey. I would like to thank everyone who has commented on my blog. Thank you for the discussion. Ya'll were having such a good one just thought it best to leave you to it. I learn more that way. When I listen and ask questions. Thank you again. 12 dogs.

Welcome back!

This next bit is a rough draft. I just tried to get it down on the blog before I left for the afternoon. Will be back in tonight. If you read this it's rough. Please give me a chance to clean and edit. Thanks, 12 dogs.

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Once again the issue of racism rears it's ugly head. Just because Sen. Clinton may win big in W.Virginia.

I'd just like to mention the fact that a racist that you're talking about probably isn't going to vote for a women either. I don't guess ya'll thought of that. They're gonna be as diehard a Republican as you are a Democrat. They aren't gonna be caught dead voting for anything Democrat. They don't have to game the primaries if the state is as racist as you say. Heck they know their relations and neighbors. They can stay home. If folks are this racist, they have the General Election covered.

Think about it.

But that said let's consider that there are white West Virginians who would like to vote for Sen. Obama as the president. The are interested in his views. Let's please consider them before ya'll run them off.

I have lived in the south my whole life and you know what? I've never heard anyone automatically say,"Oh those folks in Washington State they are a bunch of Red Neck Racists who couldn't possibly vote for an African American for president. Let's ignore them." Never in my long life have I ever heard that. But I have heard that I was a Red Neck Racist who couldn't possibly vote for a African American for president because I was from the Deep South.

Heard that on the internet many times.  

They don't know a thing about you except where you come from and bingo they seem think they know ALL about you.

Even if it is all wrong.

Folks there are racists in every state just like there are really lovely nice very fair folks in every state.

Take Mississippi.
After Katrina there were ALOT of angry folks of all politics. They didn't care for the way that the aftermath of that storm was handled. It was a mess after that storm and Mississippi and Alabama NOT JUST LOUISIANNA took a terrible hit. There are Republican voters who will be looking to the Democratic party because of that. If the Democrats start saying they are racists? Just because they're from South?  They'll stick with the devil they know. Especially in states like Alabama where the Governor is Republican and successful. Or if you are in the military and you're not sure what's kind of representation you're going to get from the other side. Again, you'll stick with what you know.

Judging someones voting preference just because of their geographical location is a form of bigotry. It really is. No way to grow the Democratic Party.

I didn't care for the way folks, who questioned the war in Iraq before the invasion, were treated. Didn't care to be called anti military for it. I just have friends and relations who will be put in harms way if a war isn't carefully considered. The first thing you come to terms with is that if you fight in war you might die. It's a good idea to minimize that risk as much as you can. That means you question BEFORE so you don't REGRET later. You have to do this.

Try asking those questions in a heavily Republican area. Try finding a protest march. A vigil. Go on. You're walking on eggshells. That's why, when I was accused of causing trouble because I said I would vote for McCain, I had to just laugh. I've lived in an place where to critise the war in Iraq would end up with me being accused of SEDITION. AIDING THE ENEMY. And that was just because I questioned wheither it was a practically waged war. It's an uncomfortable feeling to know that just honestly asking a question gets you called a traitor. Think about it. Where were the Democrats? The ones against the invasion.  I could have used a friendly face. One to say, "You aren't alone in your beliefs. You certainly AREN"T antiAmerican. Funny, the things I questioned before the invasion are the very things that later did happen. Made me so sad to see this thing. If I could see it coming how come the experts couldn't? So very sad to see and preventable.

That's why I like a strong multiparty system. A system where people of different views can group together and peacefully address their grievences. A safe harbor when you don't agree with the majority in your area. It actually breeds peace not desention.

Don't you feel better when you think that your views are heard and fairly concidered. I do. Heck, it's the First Ammendment we're talking about. Sheesh.

Please, I ask you as a Southerner. Do not call the people in West Virginia racists just cause they didn't vote for your guy. Maybe they just think Sen. Clinton could do a better job. And to the myDDer who quoted Tip O'Neal saying that folks like to be asked for their vote.

Yes-- they sure do.

I mean come on.

If someone asked for your vote and spit on your shoes at the same time?

Would you vote for them?

I like polite discourse in my diary but not at the expense of debate. I do because of my own experience. Just remember folks tend not to vote for folks who yell at them.

Welcome.



Display:


Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (2.00 / 1)

Look WV and KY are more race aware than California.

If Obama had 50% white support and 50% black support I would be with him on these states.

But Obama has 90% black support.

I am deaf to any cries of racism until Hillary is at 90% of the white vote.

MLK was for a color blind society and I support that.

But he meant color blind for WHITE PEOPLE AND BLACK PEOPLE...


by DTaylor on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:44:50 PM EST

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (none / 0)

You do realize that Bill Clinton was elected with roughly 80% of the black vote, and roughly 40% of the white vote, right?


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:47:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (2.00 / 1)

I am merely saying that cries of racism if Hillary gets 70% of the white vote somewhere are unheard by me.

I didn't call Obama's support racist

I will not call Hillary's counter support racist.

Now if the Obama thing happens every cycle....thats a different story.  Likewise my position would have been different if Obama was at 50% and Hillary carried 70% based on race identity.


by DTaylor on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:51:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (none / 0)

I really don't understand where you're coming from on this. 70% is ok, but 90% isn't? Because Obama is carrying the same percentage of black votes as every Democratic President carried in the general election, that's voting based on race in Obama's case but somehow not when they vote in the same numbers for the white candidate?


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:56:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary getting 70% of vote (none / 0)

doesn't equal racism unless the reason they're voting for her is because he's black, which has been true on occasion.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:01:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um (none / 0)

John Kerry was getting 80%-90% of the black vote in 2004.

RACISM!


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:49:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um (none / 0)

Democrats always get that % of the black vote and no one complained about it before.  But go ahead, tell the Democratic party's most loyal constituency that you'd rather they split their votes more.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um (none / 0)

Comparing AA support in the general to AA support in a Democratic PRIMARY is a joke, and you know it.


by therealdeal on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (none / 0)

She gets high 60s to low 70s of white women, and I bet if the numbers were broken down by age I bet she would get 80% or better beyond a certain age. It has absolutely nothing to do with race or racism or sexism, white women are invested in seeing the first female president just as african americans are invested in seeing the first black president.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (none / 0)

I think it's substantively different for black Americans to see the first realistic shot of a black person at the white house and to have substantial majorities want to support this than it is for white people to see the next in a long line of white people and vote on those lines.

That said, black people and white people (and pink and brown and green) all get one vote each, and use it individually. If 90% of white people chose to vote for Clinton, she'd win, and that would be their right in using their individual votes.

So far you haven't been successful in convincing them to do so in those numbers, and the time you have to do it is passing fast.


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (none / 0)

The stereotypical (ironic, isn't it) view of geographical racism is sadly outdated, giving the South a bad rap in recent decades where higher integration and larger black populations have helped to overcome past prejudices. The race chasm is an excellent example of this.

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story 84880


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:46:51 PM EST

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (2.00 / 1)

Okay, that explains why every third call I make to West Virginia ends with some variation on "I can't vote for him, he's black" or "I can't vote for a Muslim".

Spare me. We aren't going to win Appalachia anyway.


by amiches on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:52:57 PM EST

straw man! (none / 0)

Of course not all Clinton supporters are racists.  That would absurd and no one is arguing it.  Thus, by definition, it's a straw man argument.

However, just because not all Clinton supporters are racists doesn't mean that some people won't vote for Obama because they are racists.  And just as various ideologies are unevenly distributed across states, so is racism.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:57:26 PM EST

Re: straw man! (none / 0)

Sadly, there are a fair number of racists supporting both candidates.


by therealdeal on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I consider racists to be ignorant people. (none / 0)

No way everyone, or even a majority, of people in the American South are ignorant.

No reason to think Hillary (or Obama) will win votes for any different reason in the southeast than they have been winning votes all over the country.

That's my two cents for what it's worth.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:59:02 PM EST

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (none / 0)

one of the things people do not seem to understand is that people will not vote for you if they know you look down on them.  And you can't fake liking and understanding people.
Obama is way out of his element in the primary and will be in the GE because he is too recently out of the parochial neighborhood he first started politics in.
For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:08:02 PM EST

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (none / 0)

Your prediction record has not been too strong. Last week you predicted that Obama would lose NC and IN big.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:12:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again. No Virginia, they aren't al (none / 0)

That's entirely your personal impression and in no way constitutes the wider consensus on Obama. If you're not going to vote for him for that reason, then say so. But quit attributing your own personal hangups to the general population.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:13:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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