Obama/Sebelius Ticket

There has been a lot of speculation as to whether BO should pick HRC as VP to ensure party unity and to win in November.  
My take on this is that HRC on the ticket would drag it down because HRC would unite the Republican and turn them out in large numbers to vote McCain.  
Because of the tone and divisiveness of the campaign, BO need to pick a female VP to assuage the older female voters who would not be happy after the nomination contest is over.  
BO's best chance to reassure those voters and reclaim their loyalty quickly is Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas. She's smarter than Hillary, better experience than Strickland, and native of Ohio and the whole of Midwest.  A real champion of women rights, who was able to achieve fame on her own right.  Kathleen is an example of what a real fighter looks like.
 



Display:


Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 3)

Awful pick.


by reggie44pride on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:41:13 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

I like her but perhaps Obama will need a white southern male from a small town who is pro-guns such as Kaine, Webb, Strickland, etc.


by puma on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:41:31 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

I wish he would be able to snag Colin Powell. It might annoy some who still blame him for Iraq, but I think it would command respect.

On a more malevolent level, it would also be bait for racists to kill McCain's chances of a clean image.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 1)

Colin Powell would be an honorable choice for either McCain or Obama.


by DTaylor on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:47:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

How ironic. The same poeple bashing Hillary for voting for the war now want Colin Powell, the man who actually pushed it to not only Congress, but the United Nations and the world to be on the ticket. he's also the same man who wouldn't allow Bill Clinton to let gays into the military, leading to DADT. Hypocrisy has reached new heights.

Also, it would help McCain immensely. There is a very significant portion of people who already are going to have trouble voting for Obama, yes because of his race, that Powell and Obama will scare off whites and Latinos to give McCain a landslide. We can push change, and we will have a decent chance with Obama. But we cannot try to put too much change out to the American people.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:35:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

ironic, isn't it?  I tell ya, these Obama supporters seem to love republicans and their war vote

half a /snark because I am truly baffled by the vitriol with Hillary's vote but the luv-fest with Powell.


by colebiancardi on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:27:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

I don't really blame Hillary for her war vote. I'm not that person. Who could have possibly known not only that Iraq was already neutered, but that the Republicans would be so terrible at fighting a war?

I also think Colin Powell cannot be lumped in with the other warmongers. Lest we forget his resignation that came almost immediately after Bush won reelection and the numerous reports of him trying to stop the Cheney/Rumsfeld tank from plowing over everybody. Powell is a soldier, not a politician, and I mean that in the best sense of the word.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:40:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama/Edwards would be a dream team. (none / 0)


by dystopianfuturetoday on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Edwards would be a dream team. (none / 0)

The ONLY reason I think Edwards could be a problem is because he does not have the security cred that Obama needs. And it's a shame.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:50:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 3)

I think putting a woman on the ticket just because he wants to appease Hillary supporters would be insulting and condescending. He needs to put someone on board who represents her values, not her traits.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:42:04 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 1)

Worked for Mondale....

Oh

Maybe it didn't.


by DTaylor on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:47:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

You guys have absolutely no shame - do you?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

Do you?


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:48:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

I would love to see Sebelius on the ticket, but I think there's a lot of options for various reasons. VP is going to be seen as an opportunity to shore up support from weaker areas, and that might depend on which areas they think are going to be the biggest factor in the election. I could see a "safer" bet with Clark for military experience, but again, it all depends.

Where's the 4 star general, female, white, foreign policy guru Republican VP choice? (This was snark, btw)


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:42:37 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

I'm an Obama supporter, yet I'm always disheartened by comments such as this:

HRC on the ticket would drag it down because HRC would unite the Republican

See, the times have changed. This shit should no longer scare us. The way things stand right now, if there is anything that we do as Democrats that would "unite the Republican", I say bring it the f**k on!


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:46:21 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 1)

HRC as VP is Obama's only path forward.


by DTaylor on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't agree (none / 0)

Obama could choose someone from the Hillary camp but not necessarily Hillary such as Clark, Strickland, etc.


by puma on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nope it isn't (none / 0)

I wasn't trying to push for Senator Clinton as VP, I was just saying that I don't care what unites and divides the Repubs. She should not be excluded from consideration because she "unites" them, because I am confident that the Republicans are so out of touch with the people of this country, that whatever unites them in their evil ways, is something ultimately good for the country. Their unity comes from the desire to reverse progress.

Now, onto why she shouldn't be VP. For those who had what it takes to run for president, she is one of the most qualified, but when it comes to the number 2 spot, many are more qualified than she is for the position. It's that simple.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope it isn't (none / 0)

And this is something we totally agree on.  As i have said fuck what republicans will do.  Since when should we make decission for our party based on what the GOP thinks.  The bottom line is they will smear and attack what ever we do.  We should do what is in the best interests of democrats and if republicans dont like it tough shit.

david


by giusd on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll take it a step further (none / 0)

and say that we should do what's in the best interest of the American people, not just the Democrats. For the most part, the Republican collective has abandoned the American people while back and I truly believe a strong Democratic party is all that's left.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll take it a step further (none / 0)

WORD.


by giusd on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only path forward? (none / 0)

What the hell are you talking about and who do you think you are?  Hmm, I'm sure you're not bias at all.  Your analysis is coming from a totally objective standpoint.  Sure.  As much as you and your candidate have a right to stay in the race until Obama or HRC gets the needed delegates, stop going around and making these claims and threats for which you have no basis.  NO BASIS!  You only make yourself and your fellow HRC supporters look more ridiculous.  


by froggyman on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:00:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 5)

He would insult and misunderstand women to think  all women politicans are the same to us.  As you do with this diary.

That would be tantamount to Clinton getting the nomination and putting a token AA on the ticket, just to appease Obama supporters.  How would that feel to you?

I am f***g sick of this attitude that has reared up in the past few days that portrays Hillary Clinton as an outcast and implies that she is somehow criminal for her to stay in this race.  3500 delegates have been "acquired" and they are 100 and something apart.  She has won, and continues to win, major states important in the G.E.  She is a more senior Senator than Obama and has accomplished more as a Senator.

And on top of that, to state that she would not be an appropriate Vice President?

Can you say B.A.C.K.L.A.S.H?  Keep it up, Teddy and the rest of you.  You're going to see a HUGE exodus from this Party.  You have no clue.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:48:47 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

It's not about, and never has been about, her "staying in the race". It's the type of campaign she has run that's the problem. Do you think we'd be coming down so hard on Hillary had she just gone after Obama the way most any other Dem candidate would? NO. The problem is, Hillary and her campaign people have acted very much like Republicans! And THAT is what's bothering us. In fact, I can't understand why you guys --- Hillary's supporters --- haven't called her out on this issue. We know you dislike Repugs as much as the rest of us do, so seems like it would make you mad to see your own candidate sometimes acting the same way as Rove, etc.


by ratmach on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:01:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 1)

Oh, don't get me started.  It was your candidate who went negative first (remember the first debate, remember punjab?) and who has executed a constant character assasination strategy against his opponent, saying things like "she'll do anything to win," she's "part of the old Washiongton establishment" (as if he works someplace else and isn't an old-school chicago politican hanging out with the likes of tony rezko)

Most seriously, it was YOUR candidate who unleashed the race card.  Remember when his co-chair JJJ came out of the blue to accuse Hillary of not crying her tears for Katrina victims, right before the south carolina primary.  Your candidate who fanned the accusations of racism against President William Jefferson Clinton.

Remember?  Don't give me that spoon fed mush.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:06:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They both went negative (none / 0)

and to blame it all on Senator Obama is lunacy. The fact remains though that on the Republican attack meter, Senator Clinton scored very high. Using Bin Laden in her ad and all. One reason why in my book she cannot be VP.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:12:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They both went negative (none / 0)

TD - I hear that you're sincere. But in poll after poll, most voters say that it's Clinton that's run the more negative race.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:15:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They both went negative (none / 0)

That's because, for whatever reason, they have bought into it.  BO has effectively hammered that message into the collective psyhche, with a heaping dose of help from the MSM.

I think you guys know this.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:19:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They both went negative (none / 0)

But she and her people actually jumped onto the Rev. Wright bandwagon. It's been reported that Hillary and Bill were "furious and confused that the scandal hadn't more seriuosly damaged Obama." THAT is just horrible! That any self-respecting Democrat would WANT a man like Jeremiah Wright -- who despite sometimes going off the deep end, is obviously a GOOD man -- to be drug through the mud is flat out WRONG! Many of Wright's views come straight out of the progressive playbook... he's pretty much in line with people like Noam Chomsky, for god's sake! We should all -- ALL Democrats no matter which candidate they supported -- have stood up and defended Jeremiah Wright. But NO! We had to force Obama to basically disown a longtime close friend. That was messed up!


by ratmach on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:26:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They both went negative (none / 0)

It's been reported?  LOL.  By whom?  I heard that Hillary was determined not to exploit Wright.  she's no idiot, you know.

Rev. Wright is Obama's problem, not one Clinton created for him. Obama should have done something about it a long long time ago to head off the damage that was foreseeable.

I'm sure the Clinton campaign knew the extent of the Wright problem all along.  After all, his videos were on the church website.  If Clinton was so determined to use it, why sit on it?

Believe what you will.  I respect that you feel passionately about your candidate but do your Party (at least half of us have voted for the other candidate) a favor and don't push the talking points that Hillary Clinton is poisenous and washed up.  It will backfire.  Now I have to excuse myself and go get some other work done.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:38:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why do you suppose that is so? (none / 0)

Perhaps it is partly due to the fact that the MSM, which has been trashing Hillary for years, has been assiduously driving that meme down everyone's throat throughout this campaign. Apparently they've convinced even progressive Democrats who normally have no use for the MSM. Hillary can't say "Good morning" without some political pundit (or Obama surrogate) analyzing it for signs of negative campaigning or race baiting.

I've survived an awful lot of campaigns, and frankly this battle between Obama and Hillary has been quite tame compared to some in the past (take a look at the McCarthy/RFK campaign of 1968, which was particularly bitter). The nastiness has come more from the supporters of the candidates than from the candidates themselves-- though neither Hillary nor Barack will come out of this with clean hands.


by Swedie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They both went negative (none / 0)

You guys complain about ads that didn't even mention your candidate, like the one showing bin laden (who by the way, IS a threat to the USA) and the 3AM ad.  these ads highlighted her credentials and didn't even mention BO.  Not everything is always about him, for gosh sake.

I wrote a diary that I won't bother to link here about the slew of negative ads he unleashed in Indiana, 6 days after making this hi-and-mighty statement about staying positive and taking the high road.  He's convinced you and others that he's above the fray while she isnt.  It's just not true.  He should at least not pretend otherwise.

And yes, JJJ was his surrogate.  Anyone who thinks that it wasn't timed for the SC primary is naive in my book.  At the same time his campaign was preparing a memo for the press to make the case for racism against HRC and bill.

Please, you can prefer BO for whatever your reasons are, but let's not distort the facts about who's been more negative than the other.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:18:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They both went negative (none / 0)

I will never pretend to believe that the Obama campaign didn't go negative at many turns during this campaign. Who ran a more negative campaign? You cannot possibly quantify that for me and tell me that's how it is. Politicsmatter just pointed out that exit polls point out to the fact that most see Senator Clinton as being more negative. Is that factual? I guess it's just an opinion.

So, two things:
Do you think Senator Clinton did anything negative during this campain?
Secondly, and this is a bold statement, anyone who thinks that featuring Bin Laden in a primary ad is okay is "naive in my book"


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They both went negative (none / 0)

I don't understand why everything is twisted in these comments threads, such as..."so are you saying...she never did this or that?"  No, read what I wrote.

All politcians (at least those who win) go negative.  I've never heard Clinton deny that and I've never denied that. Obama on the other hand makes himself out to be holier and more ethical and pure and honest and positive than everyone else in the universe, especially all those "dirty washington types."  It's the hyposcrisy that bugs me, not the fact that any of them have "gone negative."

Who's been more negative?  I don't know.  But I know that he went negative first and they have both attacked each other.  He's held nothing back.

And if you don't think McCain will go negative against whoever our nominee is, wake up and smell the starbucks.  the GOP already has very damaging ads on their website.  I don't think whining about it is going to make a difference to the GOP.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:32:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They both went negative (none / 0)

Did you just ask me to smell the starbucks because I'm an Obama supporter? Because, you are right. I do love my starbucks.

In any case, I guess we can go back and forth about this issue. But I do would like to make one last point about Republican attacks. Be it against Obama, Clinton, or any other Democrat, I believe that the time has come to successfully combat the Republican attack line. If Barack is the nominee, they'll go after him. If Hillary is the nominee, they'll go after her. That is inevitable. What's changed this time, is that most people in this country are worst off than they were just a few short years ago. And if we continue to hammer away at the issues, that will trump the best attack the Republicans can put out there.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:46:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

Dear Texasdarlin,

Can you tell us who was responsible for spreading the smear email saying that BO was Muslim, schooled in Madrasass, etc?  Who was benefiting from that smear?  Not the Republican until now "as far as I know."

Even John McCain admits the fact of BO's faith, but HRC could only manage "as far as I know."


by igwealth5tm on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:52:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

BS.  You have purposely blanked out the several times she stated no to that question.  How many times did she really need to be asked about SOMEONE else's faith?


by colebiancardi on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

Oh please - you guys hate her because she's lasted longer than any of the other candidates.  Think back to December  boys - BO & Edwards were going at it hammer and tongs and you guys treated all Edwards' supporters like they were the scum of the earth.  You even said Edwards was running like a republican.

Give the Rethug. accusations a rest.  She's talking about the issues and raising letigimate concerns.  She only talked about Wright when asked in an interview and that was days after they started bugginer her for a response.

You want republican just wait until the 527s get their hands on your guys.  They'll rip him apart on the airwaves so quit your whining already.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

you guys hate her because she's lasted longer than any of the other candidates

What a backwards thing to say!

And your repeated "you guys" really isn't very respectful. As I mentioned earlier (in defense of your candidate), let the "Rethugs" bring whatever they may in the fall, it won't work, not this time.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:26:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

That needs to be our battle cry from now on -- not just Obama's, I mean all Dems. No, I'm not talking about "Yes we can."

I'm talking, "Not this time!" Every time the Repugs start their garbage, we need to repeat it -- Not this time!


by ratmach on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:33:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not This Time :) (none / 0)


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:47:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't even bother (none / 0)

to try to reason with this one.  It's not so much a pro-Hillary stance as an anti-Obama stance.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Check out my poll (none / 0)

I included this in a diary I did the other night over on DKos if anyone's interested. I expected Richardson to come out on top, but turns out it was Sebelius:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/9/2 4348/66129/221/512365


by ratmach on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:56:07 PM EST

My two cents (2.00 / 3)

You claim to want to "assuage" Hillary's supporters.

As a Hillary supporter, your diary sums up exactly how to NOT reunite with Hillary's supporters.

You like Sebelius, fine.

Can you make that case by building up HER positives instead of tearing Hillary Clinton down?

"She's smarter than Hillary"

"A real champion of women rights, who was able to achieve fame on her own right"

Statements like that are simply not helpful.

In my opinion, the whole notion of a female VP for Obama might backfire bigtime. You cannot erase months of sexism and misogyny against Hillary Clinton and her supporters (which went ignored, condoned and perpetuated by fellow Democrats) with a magic bullet.


"Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been." Hillary Rodham Clinton - June 7, 2008
by twinmom on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:56:18 PM EST

Re: My two cents (none / 0)

Well said twinmom.  Well said.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My two cents (none / 0)

"smarter" AHAHAHHAAH where did she, the daughter of a governor and niece of a representative go again? I don't think she went to Wellesley and Yale, like Hillary did. She is also no champion of women's rights. She has not gone to China, telling them "women's rights are human rights," nor has she made an historic run for President. She doesn't even support a woman's right to choose.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:50:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 2)

She's a DINO who wanted to uphold the states ban on gay marriage. As a gay man I have no use for her or other DINO's like her. She has no ideological compass and does what's politicly expedient. She'd be perfect for Obama.


by Iceblinkjm on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:56:59 PM EST

disagree with your premise about HRC (2.00 / 2)

and ask you to consider writing a "clean" diary without references to HRC.

That said, this ticket is too inexperienced.  Try again.


by 4justice on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:58:14 PM EST

Re: disagree with your premise about HRC (none / 0)

this ticket is too inexperienced

And geographically she adds nothing you need.

Moreover, I'll say it though no one else wants to for fear of being not-PC, but there's a huge wall to climb getting the first black person elected president.  I do not see Sebelius helping to break another glass ceiling on the same ticket.  I think for every additional female voter you picked up with her on the ticket (and I do not think people vote VP), you may lose 1 to 2 male votes due to misogyny.


by reggie44pride on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:03:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She brings notthing geographically? (none / 0)

She is the Popular two term governor of a Midwestern Red State, and the daughter of a former governor of Ohio.  She can put Kansas, and maybe some neighboring states into play, and has Ohio Roots.  And being a governor, brings executive experience.  I say she does bring a lot to the table.  More than Edwards did.


"You might well think that. I couldn't possibly comment"
by xenontab on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:11:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She brings notthing geographically? (none / 0)

a pro-life candidate?  my god.

what has the democratic party sunk to?  I know, republicans are pissed off at their party being hijacked so they trolled over to the democratic party to hijack ours.


by colebiancardi on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She brings notthing geographically? (none / 0)

She can put Kansas

You lost me right there.

If you think Kansas is in play, then McCain should start thinking about his strategy to win DC.

Obama/Jesus Christ might eek out a win in Kansas.

Sebelius is popular in Kansas, but that's mostly among Democrats and Independents.  She is 48/50 approve/disapprove among the Republican party there, which is the majority.

She adds nothing and is a huge slap in the face to Clinton supporters.


by reggie44pride on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:17:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

if anything Obama supporters say is ridiculous (none / 0)

its this idea of winning Kansas. I didn't even think of a better analogy as you, Republicans winning DC is a great one. This is by far the dumbest thing Obama supporters say. A liberal big city black guy is not winning, or getting within 20 points of Kansas. And as I've said in prior posts, God himself could never give such a candidate Kansas. Obama would have to sell his soul to Satan to even get him to think about delivering it for him. Sebelius would be an insult to Hillary supporters, as she is not only dull and boring, but completely unextroadinary. She's the daughter of privilege, a Gov of Ohio and a niece of a Rep, who went to mediocre colleges. Hillary was of a middle class family, went to Wellesley and Yale without even legacy, just smarts, and even made the Watergate impeachment hearings at a young age. She is a crusader for woman's rights, as she has gone to China and told them to their faces "women's rights are human rights" while Sebelius is against a woman choosing her life's destiny.

Moreover, I think this country is, at best, only ready for one, a woman OR a black, not both at the same time.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Sun May 11, 2008 at 02:39:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if anything Obama supporters say is ridiculous (none / 0)

"Moreover, I think this country is, at best, only ready for one, a woman OR a black, not both at the same time."

I think you underestimate the climate for change in the country.

Also, I said put Kansas in play.  And with a two-term popular governor anything is possible.  Especially since there is evidence that the Kansas GOP is starting to lose their grip (or minds) so that Kansas is becoming somewhat purplish


"You might well think that. I couldn't possibly comment"
by xenontab on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:41:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if anything Obama supporters say is ridiculous (none / 0)

please, I don't underestimate anything, 1976, Jimmy Carter, even a white male was preaching change, and barely won the damn thing by 2 points popular vote, in by Wisconsin and Ohio's 36000 votes. Without those states, he'd have never been President. Change and Watergate were the huge themes of that year. Nixon was as unpopular as Bush, and like Obama plans to do to McCain, Carter linked Ford to Nixon. America rejected John Kerry in 2004, even tho they clearly didn't like Bush and didn't think the country was on the right track. Tennessee rejected Harold Ford Jr. in 2006, the Democratic sweep, and I could go on and on. Look at Dinkins v. Giuliani in NEW YORK CITY in 1989, led in polls by 15 before the election, won by 2 on election day. I'm realistic. Saying Sebelius could put Kansas in play is like saying Giuliani on a GOP ticket could put New York in play. Its not happening. Giuliani was beloved thruout the state.

If you don't think a black is enough to make this election a very close one, in a country like ours, you got another thing coming. A woman will only compound that on the same ticket.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Sun May 11, 2008 at 12:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: disagree with your premise about HRC (none / 0)

Two-term Governor is too inexperienced?  What do you have in mind because even if HRC is planning on running in 2012, there's a plan for her to become NY Gov before re-contesting?  Therefore, two-term Governor with impeccable record is more than enough, it's simply awesome.


by igwealth5tm on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:00:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 2)

Terrible pick, if not insulting.  Sebelius is not more qualified than Clinton for the VP job.  Clinton supporters would take this as a slap in the face.


by khyber900 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:59:35 PM EST

Obama (2.00 / 1)

should do the right thing, the only thing that would in fact properly appease Hillary's voters -- who, of course, represent fully half of the party -- and offer her the VP slot.

Everything else will look to Hillary's voters as a clear sign that Obama is not properly deferent to them, that he won't even be respectful enough of  their opinions and aspirations that he will do what is always hard: forgive your opponents.

Does Obama and his camp really believe that one can achieve unity of any kind without being able to extend an olive branch to the other side? If Obama can't do that, how can he presume to preach to others about getting past their differences?

And there is no excuse that would suffice for choosing someone other than Hillary. While Obama and his camp can claim all they want that Hillary is too divisive, the plain fact is that that is not how her own voters must see it. If Obama can't allow the opposing side even enough legitimacy that their views on Hillary must be respected, even if he doesn't agree with them, then, again, how is the man in any position to preach to others about unity and transcendence?


by frankly0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:00:24 PM EST

I agree (none / 0)

but I don't think Obama will do this unless he is forced to do so.

that is the way to unite the party right now.  IF the DNC and party elders understand this, they will force a joint ticket.  Maybe this will happen at the convention.


by 4justice on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:05:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree (none / 0)

Really, it's politically a no-brainer that this Unity ticket is necessary.

You don't need unity so much when the battles have been mild and pleasant. You need it, and desperately, precisely when the battles have been hard and divisive.

This is Obama's opportunity to demonstrate that unity and transcendence are more than "just words" to him.

I have a feeling that if it comes about, it will be as you suggest, with Obama (and, apparently, Michelle) kicking and screaming.


by frankly0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:09:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree (none / 0)

Well we shall see.  As the convention gets closer and close the calls to put HRC on the ticket will get louder and louder.  And HRC hardcore supporters, including us, will push this idea to the democratic powers that be.

At some point BO will have to make a decision to put her on the ticket or not.  But HRC voters are upset she lost and the way they feel BO went after her.  If HRC supporters get their hopes up that she will be on the ticket and then he picks someone else these voters may walk. And while BO and his supporters may not agree the dem leadership may disagree.

david


by giusd on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so you think picking a woman (none / 0)

will help him, or somehow make him more acceptable to women in the party?  That is truly insulting and I hope it backfires big time for Obama.

Unbelievable!


by 4justice on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:00:45 PM EST

Re: so you think picking a woman (2.00 / 1)

You could be honest and admit that nothing would change your impression of him. It would be appreciated if you'd stop speaking for all women and implying that we're all this closed-minded.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:05:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: so you think picking a woman (none / 0)

No joke, upstate girl.  And this 28-year-old male would love to see Obama pick Sebelius.  Not only would it be great to have a female and an AA in the White House, but Sebelius is the perfect PERSON to complement Obama with his overall message of change.  

I find it very strange to see a woman, who wants to see women in positions of power, against Obama for choosing another woman besides Hillary... as if there's a lack of competent women for the job, which there are not.  Tisk, tisk.      


by froggyman on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:09:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They only pretend it's about (none / 0)

having a woman in the White House.  It's a small but vocal cult of personality that hangs out at Hillaryis44, TaylorMarsh and a few rightwing anti-Obama sites whose sole purpose is either to get Hillary on the ticket or prevent Obama from winning in November.  These are the same people driving the super delegates crazy, causing talking heads to roll their eyes, irritating the heck out of Howard Dean and Donna Brazille with their spam emails.

They think they are helping their cause by all this crazy anti-Obama stuff.  


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:26:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

He will choose Webb or Strickland. A AA and a women on the same ticket is just too 'historic' for many.


Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:13:29 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

I like both those picks.

And I oppose putting Clinton on the ticket.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

I oppose putting Clinton on the ticket

Why?

It's the best option given the way the primaries played out.  Are you old enough to remember how VPs used to be picked.

2008 is 1960 all over again.  

The energetic and inspirational JFK is now Obama.

The crusty and (probably) corrupt pol LBJ is now Clinton.

Obama/Clinton 08

Embrace it.

I dislike both of those two babies and I have.  Why not you?

Sebelius?  Give me a F'n break.


by reggie44pride on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

Novak agrees with me on Strickland:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article s/2008/05/michelle_vetoes_hillary.html

But, notice the title.   MO nixes Hillary as VP.

hahaha

If Obama is elected, it will take MO less time than it did HRC to earn the GOP's ire.


by reggie44pride on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:17:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

The GOP can't stand strong women, white or black.


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:46:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

The GOP can't stand strong women, white or black

That's a bit short-sighted.

Margaret Thatcher is about as popular among the GOP hardcores, like George Will, as Reagan was.


by reggie44pride on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:10:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

And many GOPers love Coulter too.


by patooker on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

And many GOPers love Coulter too

WTF was that?  Are you comparing Thatcher to Coulter?

Whether you disagree or agree with her, Thatcher was an amazing leader, a testament to the fact that women are NOT "weak" leaders.  I disagree with her politics, but I respect the hell out of what she represented.

Stop comparing offensive pundits to leaders.  It makes you look stupid.


by reggie44pride on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

My apologies, I think you are correct, not the best comparison to make.


by patooker on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:06:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Could be Webb. (none / 0)

But we are stripping the Senate of two Dems if we have that ticket.  Better to use a governor or a former general.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:28:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

go away to dkos (none / 0)

discuss this shit there. obama will not be even on Hillary's ticket.


Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties
by engels on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:04:04 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (1.00 / 2)

UGH another reason to go on vacation in November.


by J Rae on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:39:08 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

Why?  Fall colors in the south?


by reggie44pride on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 1)

Sebelius looked truly awful delivering the Democratic response to the State of the Union this year.  She has a lot going for her in other respects, but I don't think she would be a particularly effective campaigner or attack dog.

Many HRC supporters will also remember that she used that airtime to shamelessly shill for Obama.  She took an important opportunity to push back against the administration as a united front, and filled it with a bunch of Obama campaign talking points and catch phrases.  She then endorsed him two days later.


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:44:02 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

Sebelius looked truly awful delivering the Democratic response to the State of the Union this year

Yes.

I don't think she would be a particularly effective campaigner or attack dog

Yes.

she used that airtime to shamelessly shill for Obama

Now we get why Dkos wants her to be VP  :-)

She then endorsed him two days later

I was shocked.


by reggie44pride on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:19:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (none / 0)

I'll come out an admit to having voted for Obama last week before I write anything else here.

First, until one of the two remaining candidates says its over, I don't think we should be talking about VPs for our side. I've been guilty of it in the recent past, but am increasingly of the opinion we all will need a couple weeks in June to rest, relax, and not think about any of this. We can all do our research and formulate our private opinions, but things are a bit heated right now (see lots of comments above) to be really debating through this. How the campaign really ends will go a long way to deciding what is the right thing for the winner to do.

I do think that saying Sebelius is smarter than Hillary is a bit unfair. I don't know enough about Sebelius to comment on her smarts, but even if you think the Clintons are nothing else they are very smart people.


by patooker on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:17:23 PM EST

She is not smarter than Hillary. (none / 0)

that is absolutely ridiculous. Hillary was a child from an middle class family, who made it herself to Wellesley and Yale. Kathleen Sebelius is a daughter of a Governor and a brother of a Representative, and still went to mediocre schools. She is not smarter than Hillary. Hillary is well spoken, Sebelius sounds like a boring grandmother. Her response to the SOTU was god awful.

She is not better than Strickland, because Strickland can actually help deliver Ohio, which is a swing state. Kansas is no swing state. It has voted Democrat once in the last 70 of a century. it was also even one of LBJ's weakest states. Obama, a liberal black man from a big city will never win that state, even if red state hell freezes over along with Crawford, Texas. God himself could never Kansas a blue state. It is far too culturally conservative to go to the GOP by less than a 10 point margin, especially against Barack Obama. Not to mention, much of America is going to be slightly uneasy with Obama, the last thing we need to is to try to shove too much change down people's throats. They will only tolerate one, a woman OR a black, not "and." He needs a white male.      


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:47:04 PM EST

Re: Obama/Sebelius Ticket (2.00 / 1)

fastest way to send me to mccain....


by nikkid on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:17:49 PM EST


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