Witness The Destruction of the Party

From the latest NBC/WSJ poll (1006 RVs, April 25-28, MOE +/- 3.1%):

Putting aside for a moment the question of who each party's nominee might be, what is your preference for the outcome of the presidential election -- that a Democrat be elected president or that a Republican be elected president?

4/25-283/7-10Nov. 07
Democrat (strongly)454441
Democrat (not strongly)668
Republican (strongly)252931
Republican (not strongly)888

Damn shame, ain't it?



Display:


Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (2.00 / 2)

Hear, hear!!

We will defeat McCain, anyone who is 'concerned' must be insecure in our strong candidates. Don't be blinded by the spin from either side.

WE WILL defeat McCain, no matter how hard some DEMS want to make us think we will lose.


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:12:42 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

I couldn't agree more!

The more time McCain has to screw up, the more ammo we will have to devestate him in the general.

I am supporting Hillary first, and Obama second...But the BOTH have my unwavering support as a Democrat!  I have to chose one over the other now, but I chose Democrat above all else in November!

And...As it appears...So will everyone else!  Remember, regime change starts at home.  The GOP is outta here!


Pride & Prejudice...The American Way!
by FISG on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:06:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

You're my kinda Democrat. Flip the names and you've said what I would say. I look forward to working the general with dems like you, whatever happens!


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:36:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nightline (none / 0)

elitism:

I am watching Clinton on Nightline interviewed by McFadden; HRC saidthat the NYT economist opposed to the gas 'holiday' was an elitist view; the thought that arose was - -

Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton elitism

that could be ONE of many good rebuttals;

she is putting the voters in a trance with the trigger word 'elistist/elitism' burrrrrrrrrr shades of Pavlovian classic conditions..... say it and 'they' will salivate;


by dearreader on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:17:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

We have to end the primaries NOW!!!!!
It is obviously ruining the Democrats' chances.
by johnnygunn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:12:53 PM EST

OK. Tell BO to step aside and we can! (none / 0)


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:00:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

really? (none / 0)

this is what you are going with?

Not hillary? Obama?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:47:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (2.00 / 1)

Wow, that's ironical...


by Dave B on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:13:29 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (2.00 / 1)

Rofl...So much for that argument


by Jaz on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:15:00 PM EST

Brilliant (2.00 / 4)

What an incisive way to make your point.


by bobbank on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:15:02 PM EST

McCain is Republican (2.00 / 2)

The only problem with this is that many voters believe McCain is not a real Republican. Obama and Clinton would destroy McCain the Republican. But they both struggle against McCain the media-created maverick.


by elrod on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:15:40 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (2.00 / 5)

it's all that evil hillary's fault. she's ruined the party for a generation, at least.


by campskunk on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:18:31 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

true, looks like


by wrb on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:53:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Why did she have to go and think her voters deserved a voice?  

Just because she wins the majority of Democratic party members doesn't mean she should win right?

Republicans don't like her.

Republicans like Obama well maybe per your chart they USED to like Obama.

Why do these Democrats have to try and spoil it and expect their voice to be heard??????


by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:29:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (2.00 / 2)

nicely put!


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:20:09 PM EST

I like how the Editors of the N.Y.Times put it (none / 0)


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like how the Editors of the N.Y.Times put it (none / 0)

stalker alert?!?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like how the Editors of the N.Y.Times put it (none / 0)

Don't flatter yourself.


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's only good if we are united (none / 0)

in November.  If we aren't, it won't matter.


by puma on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:20:50 PM EST

Re: It's only good if we are united (2.00 / 2)

So you will vote for Hillary?


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Hillary wins this thing with the most pledged (none / 0)

delegates or reaches 2024 before Obama, I will DEFINITELY support her.

If she doesn't, I won't.

I will support the Democrat who reaches 2024 first who ever that is.


by puma on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:07:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So you will vote for Hillary? (none / 0)

I've never been a "write in" kind of voter.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you for posting this (2.00 / 1)

That argument needed to be rebutted in just this way.


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:21:16 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (2.00 / 1)

Through all this worry worting, including my own, I have once in a while taken the time to notice that McCain with all of his free time and campaigning unattacked by the savage press, still can't seem to beat our troubled candidates by much, if at all.  That says something.  It is amazing.  A lot of really amazing stuff is going on these days.  I also was looking at the counties in PA and the percent of win for each candidate in their own party.  Nobody has said much about it in the media, but McCain only managed to scrape up around 60 to 70 percent of the vote in his own party in most counties, bested by our good friends Huckabee and Paul who were supposed to be dead in the water a while back. In PA, the landscape was inundated with Ron Paul signed from one end to the other.  Not a single sign for McCain could be seen.  


by Scotch on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:24:47 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (2.00 / 1)

that's basically due to my crazy friends. I think they went on road trips up and down route 15 and bought tons of signs. They also helped organize Ron Paul rallies in State College, PA. Pretty crazy how a few 20 year olds can put up a few signs and it makes people feel like a candidate must be viable. Haha.

On the other hand, he did get a lot of votes, but I'm from PA, and it's not amazing that Paul got votes. They were all apathetic people anyway, and probably won't be voting for anyone in November.

Check that, you won't believe me, but my die hard Paul friends said they would have voted for Edwards in the general, even though he's pretty much diametrically opposed to Paul on every single policy. This goes to show you how different Paul supporters are than regular voters.


by The Best Blogger on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:38:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Wow that is quite interesting! Did they say why they would vote for Edwards in the fall if he had made it after supporting Paul?


by rosevilledem on Fri May 02, 2008 at 01:47:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Yeah, pretty much unconditionally. I think they (Paul supporters) were drawn to rhetoric more than anything. Paul was talking about anarchy, Edwards oftentimes talked about a revolution that was about to happen (tidal wave of change). I think that's what they clung to more than anything.

Let's face it. Paul wasn't afraid to take on the Republican Party. And that made his supporters feel good, the same way that Dean wasn't afraid to take on the Democratic Party.


by The Best Blogger on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:22:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

i am (was) a paul supporter. my reason for supporting him was a speech i heard him give one day during my lunch break in september 2005. he explained in simple terms why iraq was a mistake and why we should pull out as soon as possible. his ideas on iraq matched my own. he also called out the bush administration for their criminal acts.

since then i have heard only one other speech (al gore) in which these same points were made. the democrats have caved entirely on the iraq war, providing bush with his many funding votes. this includes sen obama. sen clinton lost me as a supporter when she voted for war. she earned my hatred when she said it was because she didn't have access to the intelligence, although she was on the intelligence committee.

the iraq war is the greatest mistake in our country's history. we have allowed a group of people called neocons, all associated with pnac, to take over foreign policy and the pentagon, and to make war on the world. the majority of americans do not understand the seriousness of this situation.


by hueydixiepearl on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:29:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Well articulated. I apologize if my sarcasm sometimes gets in the way of my seriousness. I mean, every time I turned on the early Republican debates, I loved hearing Paul stick it to Guiliani.

This is healthy for democracy, without a doubt.


by The Best Blogger on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:06:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The war (none / 0)

If you truly mean what you say -- that ending the war in Iraq is your top priority -- then there's only one candidate you should be unapologetically supporting: Obama.

More voices like yours should be raised within the GOP if there's any chance of moving beyond the status quo.


by JD Lasica on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:47:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (2.00 / 2)

yeah, the 3000 blogging obama supporters swearing they'll never support hillary as the nominee really affected that outcome, didn't they? i keep telling them they're one thousandth of one percent of the US population, but they just don't believe me.


by campskunk on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:24:58 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

What about the 30% of hillary supporters who tell pollsters they will never vote for Obama?


by bawbie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (2.00 / 2)

Heh - 3000?  Seriously?  I thought it was a dozen or so guys astroturfing ;o)

Seriously - TODD thanks a million for injecting a bit of reality to this discussion.  Our party's in fine shape and we've bounced back from rougher primary seasons than this one.

MCCAIN'S TOAST come Nov.  Bank on it!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:42:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's the Best News of the Day (none / 0)

If Democrats play their cards right (i.e. seat one-half of the Florida and Michigan delegates) they will win quite big in November no matter who is nominated.


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:34:09 PM EST

A Damn Shame! (none / 0)

It's time for the Super Delegates to step up to the plate.


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:37:11 PM EST

Re: A Damn Shame! (2.00 / 2)

I could be wrong, but I think you missed the main point of the post. Which is, it's NOT time for the superdelegates to step up to the plate.


Nothing like a one liner from which someone can judge your entire character.
by motbob on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Damn Shame! (none / 0)

Of course Hillary wants to drag it out to a bloody floor fight at the convention. Who doesn't know that by now?

A damn shame, ain't it?


If Democrats don't stop the Clinton/Bush Dynasty now, who will and when?
by ClintonBushDynasty on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Damn Shame! (none / 0)

That we live in a democracy?

WTF are you thinking??

If Obama had won this would be over.

Obama hasn't won and appears to be losing support FAST.

Get to 2025 or whatever the adjusted number will be after they count Florida and Michigan and then you can say its over.

Till then you are just rooting against Democracy.


by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:33:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Obama had won this would be over. (none / 0)

Psssssst. It is.


If Democrats don't stop the Clinton/Bush Dynasty now, who will and when?
by ClintonBushDynasty on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:26:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama had won this would be over. (none / 0)

"Psssssst. It is."

But not in the direction you think it is.... =)


by DTaylor on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Damn Shame! (none / 0)

I'm excited for a bloodly floor fight!


by The Best Blogger on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:40:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm excited for a bloodly floor fight! (none / 0)

It would be an entertaining spectacle -- like watching two dogs disembowel each other.


If Democrats don't stop the Clinton/Bush Dynasty now, who will and when?
by ClintonBushDynasty on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:27:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

We can thank Jeremiah Wright for this. He destroyed Obama because he had to defend his "reputation." I think Hillary could still win but Obama may have been an easier candidate to run.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:43:55 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Look at the numbers again.  More recent numbers are on the left.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:03:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

did you even look at the numbers? (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:50:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Numbers (none / 0)

The numbers change every day. They don't mean a whole lot right now, with the political bloodhounds in the media in full hew and cry.

When Obama wins the Democratic nomination in August, he'll be statistically ahead of Clinton in the national polls again. Bank on it.


by JD Lasica on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Damn shame, ain't it? (none / 0)

Pray, tell us what you and MyDD have done to make it less so.


If Democrats don't stop the Clinton/Bush Dynasty now, who will and when?
by ClintonBushDynasty on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:49:04 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Go Hil, go


by wrb on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:49:26 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

So Hillary give the pubs the White House, like Bill gave them the congress.


by wrb on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:51:14 PM EST

Who are you? And what have you been (2.00 / 1)

drinking?


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who are you? And what have you been (none / 0)

no.

Should have been "gives"

I have a crippled hand, and am a terrible typist.

During the Clinton administration, Democrats lost the congress.

True or false?


by wrb on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:29:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

woe unto me (none / 0)

blame the clintons

Forget the rise of conservatism in the eighties.

forget the democratic corruption in congress.

just blame the clintons.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: woe unto me (none / 0)

You don't that with greater, less venial leaders we wouldn't have done better?


by wrb on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: woe unto me (none / 0)

well lets say we had nominated Paul Tsongas or Bob Kerrey. Bush I then would get to run against a corrupt Dem Congress, and they had many scandals in the 80's and early '90s, and both of those Senators were part of those Congresses. So Bush I runs a Truman style campaign and not only wins, but gets a landslide because he'd have made it a referendum on Congress itself, we'd have lost Congress too. Congress was voted out in 1994 because things weren't perceived to be changing quickly enough from the 12 years of GOP damage, so yes they voted the same party to Congress, they did so because they were of the party that wasn't incumbent in Congress.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:01:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Could happen again in 2008 with the (none / 0)

miserable Dem. Congress failing to do ANYTHING since 01/07.


by CoyoteCreek on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:14:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who are you? And what have you been (none / 0)

Think Abscam, the House banking scandal, the congressional post office scandal, think of a decades old Dem majority in congress that was just as corrupt as the Republicans today.
We lost Congress barely two years after Clinton was elected.
But, as always, it's Clinton's fault.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:49:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Wait a second - did you add up the numbers? The total Democratic support in Nov 07 is 50 and it is 51 now - how is that destruction? Seems fine - why make such inflammatory comments about numbers that aren't changing much. You are looking at the numbers backwards! If anything Republican support has declined. Strong support moves UP from 41 to 45.


by sunnyaz08 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:08:27 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

ummm, he's being sarcastic.


by slynch on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:15:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Oh, thanks - I guess I don't read sarcasm well.


by sunnyaz08 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

why make such inflammatory comments (none / 0)

A good question that will wait long for an answer.

Which will leave people to speculate on their own.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:18:21 PM EST

We're okay until she says things like this (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton in Jeffersonville, IN, just challenged members of Congress to weigh in on a gas tax:

"I believe it would be important to get every member of Congress on record," she said, per NBC/NJ's MIke Memoli. "Do they stand with the hard-pressed Americans who are trying to pay their gas bills at the gas station or do they once again stand with the oil companies? That's a vote I'm going to try to get, because I want to know where people stand, and I want them to tell us - are they with us or against us when it comes to taking on the oil companies?"

Source: http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/a rchives/2008/05/hrc_challenges.html
Credit: MBNYC


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:33:19 PM EST

Re: We're okay until she says things like this (none / 0)

You gotta love opportunistic politicking. Sometimes, you just have to laugh. It's a campaign, and she needs to play the populist card to get votes.


by The Best Blogger on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:42:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Wow I have been so conditioned by the Obama folk that I fell for it.

Guess GOP are worried about economy and switched to dem or something...

I read the graph as Dems losing support while we are actually gaining as per graph and link.

They just put the dates in the non traditional order.


by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:39:46 PM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Thank God I wasn't the only one who fell for that trick at first!


by sunnyaz08 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you were conditioned? (none / 0)

are you posting left and right about how Obama is unelectable.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:51:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you were conditioned? (none / 0)

I see you don't live up to your motto "be excellent to each other" - I was commenting on the fact that people claimed the party was being destroyed when in fact the party is becoming stronger - you certainly don't have any "kind thoughts" do you. You clearly haven't read all of my posts - and I am entitled to my opinions.


by sunnyaz08 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:24:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was replying (none / 0)

to DTaylor, not you.

Please look at the thread and DTaylors past comments.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:43:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was replying (none / 0)

Oh - my bad - peace :)

I thought the comment was connected my message


by sunnyaz08 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no worries, its all good (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri May 02, 2008 at 01:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no worries, its all good (none / 0)

Obama is unelectable.


by DTaylor on Fri May 02, 2008 at 01:58:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

blah, blah, blah (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:45:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

I can't wait until this turns into a two-way race and the Democratic nominee starts ticking up against McCain in the polls. This man's solution to the healthcare crisis is to end employer-based healthcare and instead push for a 2000 dollar or so tax credit that would cover about a fifth of the average annual per family healthcare expenditure. The best in Republican healthcare since the "personal healthcare savings account idea".

What a joke.

We are all about to see on the national level why McCain performed so poorly in his home state of Arizona in the Republican primary(he only got 47 percent of the vote). This is what happens when your name is on a bill that you say now you won't vote for, and your name is on another piece of legislation that you passed and are now violating. I can't wait to turn the light of truth against this guy.  


by wengler on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:30:38 AM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

I will ignore your post and repeat old arguments with little basis in fact, driven solely by talking points and my own biased opinion.

seriously though, good post, the Republicans are systematically screwed this year, they have a built in disadvantage due to a number of issues that won't be erased by McCain's current image as "Teh Maverick".


by Skaje on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:02:42 AM EST

Gee thanks Hillary nt (none / 0)


by ksquire on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:12:06 AM EST

Re: Witness The Destruction of the Party (none / 0)

Your headline had me concerned,considering the way the Hilary and Obama fans have been going at it, but then I saw the numbers.
Glad I'm an ex-Republican.
by spirowasright on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:05:36 PM EST

It gets better... (none / 0)

THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING REPUBLICAN BASE
Societal trends reshaping the American electorate

By Alan I. Abramowitz
Guest Columnist

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystal ball/article.php?id=AIA2008050101


by KTinOhio on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:22:58 PM EST


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