Gallup confirms the Obama slide

The poll movement clearly going in Clinton's favor on both tracking polls. Nationally, Gallup today also shows the trend:

Also,

The latest general election results show Obama now trailing McCain by a statistically significant 47% to 43% margin among registered voters. Clinton and McCain are now tied in the general election at 46%.
What seems most noticeable about the polling is that Obama didn't start tanking until after he 'denounced' Wright. Why is that?



Display:


Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

He's losing AA voters in addition to white voters now?

Just a hunch, no numbers to back it up.


by dark1p on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:43:54 PM EST

Democrats TOGETHER we will be strong.. (none / 0)

Thank God! This is the best news I have heard all week.

This is a VERY, VERY important decision for America.


Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.
by architek on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

news? (none / 0)

he said there are no number


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:13:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton also just picked up 4 SDs! (none / 0)

to counter the 5-0 margin of earlier, we need more than to keep pace, but for now its good. After big wins we will start outpacing in terms of S.Ds!!!


DEMOCRATIC 08!
by rigsoHC on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:44:53 PM EST

Re: Clinton also just picked up 4 SDs! (none / 0)

The 5-0 number was bogus as 3 were add-ons from IL. Same with the 4 add-ons from NY.  All were expected.


by elrod on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:47:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton also just picked up 4 SDs! (none / 0)

Hey, Shuck and Jive Andrew Cuomo is on the list.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:16:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton also just picked up 4 SDs! (none / 0)

Great. Now those NY add-ons are out of the way -- her biggest prospective haul of add-ons.  Since Obama won more states, he'll gain more add-ons.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton also just picked up 4 SDs! (none / 0)

Add-on schedule and tracker:
http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/03/ add-on-superdelegate-selection-schedule. html
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:50:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so far his add ons were 2 to 1 (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 3)

this Obama "slide" hasn't even come close to replicating the Clinton "slide" of two weeks ago.

To noone's surprise,  you failed to capture it.


!
by alex100 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:44:58 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Welcome to MyDD.


by The Animal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:13:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

And does someone have a servicable definition of the verb "tank"?


by smoker1 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tanking: (none / 0)

That's when a warrior or other sword-and-board character uses high-threat skills to keep the attention of a boss monster while DPS classes attempt to kill it.

Personally, I'd consider Obama to be more of a support/healing/buff type, but I'm sure he could tank a little if he put his mind to it.

Okay, okay, I'm done!

The idea that Obama is tanking due to a slight polling decrease is just as silly as comparing the campaign to a World of Warcraft raid.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:48:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, neither side looks good in controversy. (none / 0)

Any controversy on either side of this has always put the other side in an awkward position.  Neither candidate has handled this consistently....some seen to be "taking advantage" of it; other times being seen as "taking the high road".

Steepness of decline and the steepness of recovery for both candidates has varied throughout the race and is different, you're right, but long term trends are also important.


by 4justice on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:26:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 2)

I think his denunciation reinforced Wright's comments, that Obama will follow the polls and as a politician say what he has to say. Compare his comments when Wright first appeared to his comments a few days ago.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:45:16 PM EST

Yes (2.00 / 2)

He only confirms that he is an old style politician after all.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes (none / 0)

you expect him to lay there and take the heat for something so abstract as Wright? as if Wright is running for president?

I for one thought he needed to fight for Wright in front of the media regardless of it being political suicide. But being a politician requires being a "trend" follower in some way, shape or form.

if by some miracle Hillary pulls out this primary, I'll be the first to fight back against obtuse media remarks regarding something so incredibly unimportant to the future of America. It's called being a grown-up and it's about time all of us, regardless of your support need to start being more aware of these media induced stories.


!
by alex100 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:55:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Se the next post down (none / 0)

It is not about Wright.  It is about the only thing Obama has run on, Judgment.  His judgment was good once for a speech we're not sure he made because the only video of it was a reenactment staged for his ads.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 05:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and longer term, I think (none / 0)

as the Wright comments "sunk in", the whole issue of judgment--upon which Obama has based his campaign--became an issue once again.  It is larger than Wright...this issue should have been addressed long before Wright even appeared on the stage as at least a possibility for campaign strategists.  He should never have allowed himself to be in this position now, and is as responsible for his campaign strategy as his top staff are.


by 4justice on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and longer term, I think (none / 0)

Sorry, but this applies to Clinton in spades.  If she hadn't voted for the Iraq war, she would be the nominee, end of story.  

When the campaign turned away from issues and into a circus, Clinton was the beneficiary.  If Clinton gets the nod, it's like 2004 all over again.  People get all worked up, and wake up on election day already with a sense of buyers remorse.

Democrats will regret nominating Clinton, because her position on the issue that has vexed Democrats for 5 years is at odds with her party.


http://www.yawnmccain.com
by enozinho on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

His judgment is not to be trusted at all (none / 0)

At least we know where she stands.  He straddles every issue.  and

His judgment was good once for a speech we're not sure he made because the only video of it was a reenactment staged for his TV ads.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 05:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 2)

The difference is that Wright made a public ass of himself and cannot claim that he was taken out of context. The video snippets were taken out of context and looked much less bad when seen in light of the whole sermon. Obama knew that Wright was being caricatured.

But the press conference was Wright saying screw you to the press and, by implication, screw you to Obama. It was a pure betrayal and Obama had to act. This was no longer about past comments ginned up to look bad but present comments offered by Wright to embarrass Obama.

Also, note that Obama seethed at the notion that his Philadelphia speech was just political posturing. Wright's cynicism was too much for Obama.


by elrod on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:49:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (1.00 / 1)

That "out of context" argument was pure BS from the beginning and Wright's press conference proved it.  I have seen the comments in their full context and it did not change the meaning.  Fox News posted the entire sermons online for crying out loud.

So give up the "out of context" defense. It is over.

If you want to know why Obama is sliding it is because Obama is telling the American people that he was not aware that Wright held these positions.  So either Obama is very stupid or he thinks the American people are.


by dMarx on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:00:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that is typical.. (none / 0)

Its a similar situation with his healthcare plan. Now that people are starting to realize how little Obama is actually going to change, and his arrogance at waiting till 2012 to even attempt to try it, I think many people are realizing Hillary is a much better candidate. We don't want another Bush, arrogance-wise.

Also, we need a candidate who is EXCEPTIONAL on healthcare to go up against McCain, with his terrible healthcare proposals. More than anything else, that issue has the potential to hit Americans where they can't afford it. For many of us, the difference between Hillary and Obama is the difference between having healthcare thats affordable and not. Or thousands of dollars a year.


Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.
by architek on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:03:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

Obama was, admittedly, put in a tough spot by his erstwhile friend, Wright. In terms of empathy, is it now possible to see how one longer in the fire of the national political scene (namely, Hillary) has had to face difficult public crises as well.  Sometimes when it happens to the "politician" we support, it feels differently...but, it is not.  This is not directed at you, Elrod--but to many Obama supporters who have claimed a specialness for their man and rather demonized (or approved of characaturing Hillary)before their own trials in the limelight: Empathy and respect are important.


by christinep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:20:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Because (2.00 / 2)

Whatever people like Joe Scarborough may say, Obama cannot put this behind him.

Why he stayed 20 years is the issue, not whether he throws Wright under a bus.  People are smarter than some politicians give them credit for.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:45:23 PM EST

Re: Because (none / 0)

And this is why polls of people state that Wright, by and large,  doesn't effect their opionion on the race.

You nailed it!


by Why Not on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:48:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because (2.00 / 1)

So the 10 pts slide was because of the gas tax?


by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:07:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

its a trend yet (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:16:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because (none / 0)

So here is the scenario that you are looking at.  Obama will, of course, win the most delegates through the normal primary/caucus process (presuming that DNC rules mean anything at all).  If the rules mean nothing and Michigan and Florida delegates are seated AND the superdelegates go with Clinton, she could get the nomination.

Then you have one pissed off group of Democratic voters and a great, inspirational leader.  Obama has raised about $250 million in the last year.  The DNC has raised about $50 million.  Obama has  a database of committed volunteers that completely blows out anything the DNC can muster.

So, wouldn't that be the perfect time to start a 3rd party?  Maybe Obama goes 3rd party, selects Hagel to attract more GOP votes and lets see what happens?

If the Obama campaign works so hard and follows all the rules to have the nomination taken through slight of hand with Michigan and Florida and through superdelegates, I would have nothing to do with the DNC anymore.


by smoker1 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How do you mean this? (none / 0)

It sounds like you are issuing a threat, and assuming that the only way HRC could win is through "stealing the election"?  If that is so, I am truly sorry you feel that anyone or any candidate is going to "pull the strings" with MI and FL.

BOTH candidates are going to have to agree with the solution, and/or present their case for seating/not seating them and how. The popular vote is clearer in Florida than MI.  There is still plenty of time and opportunity to figure this out.


by 4justice on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:45:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do you mean this? (none / 0)

First, I'm a lowly blogger incapable of issuing threats.  I'm just observing that one possible resolution to this conflict is a third party.

Second, I don't understand why there needs to be any action at all on the Florida and Michigan delegation.  It seems pretty clear: party rules state that if a state holds a primary prior to a certain date, the delegates from that primary won't be seated.  Florida and Michigan held primaries prior to that date -- and they did so with full knowledge and understanding of the rule.

I don't know what there is to figure out?  What is unclear about this situation?

There are 408 primary delegates left to select.  If Clinton wins 283 of those, then she earned the most delegates and she deserves the nomination.  If she does this and wins because she just out-campaigned Obama, I completely respect the process and (though sad) I will accept the results and work hard to get her elected.

If she does not get 283 of the remaining 408 delegates, and wins because of changing the rules for Michigan and Florida or because superdelegates don't like what the voters say...then all bets are off.

If Obama follows all the rules, wins the most delegates through the primary/caucus process and yet loses the nomination, then we have a bad process and its time for a new party.


by smoker1 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:14:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sunday fell off (none / 0)

The rolling average didn't necessary show daily drops after the denunciation. We'll have to see tomorrow if the denunciation helped him.


by elrod on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:46:00 PM EST

Re: Sunday fell off (2.00 / 1)

Yes they did.


by dMarx on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sunday fell off (none / 0)

These are three day polls...


by LordMike on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:25:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)


The better numbers from Obama have dropped out of the rolling sample. He could have the same exact numbers on Wednesday as he did on Monday, but Sunday is not in the picture.

Since we don't know what the one day results are, that is as plausible a scenario as a drop following the divorce.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:46:12 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

Myabe it is because McCain and Clinton have been getting a free ride while people (like those on this site and in the media) continue to smear Obama with baseless crap.

Oh and Jerome, when did you start taking National daily tracking polls as gospel?


by Why Not on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:46:43 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

What seems most noticeable about the polling is that Obama didn't start tanking until after he 'denounced' Wright. Why is that?

Obama responded to Wright the day after Wright's press appearance, so I'm not sure why you are tying the poll numbers to Obama's response and not the Wright appearance.  Any event takes a day or two to filter into the poll results.


Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:47:07 PM EST

it is an odd comment (none / 0)

I thought Jerome strongly advocated that Obama needed to denounce Wright, now he seems to imply that he thinks it was the wrong thing to do.  


John McCain is a Bush ally on Social Security.
by John DE on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:16:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

oh, and fix your EV calculator. Clinton loses MN in the latest poll. NC is tied on the Obama side.


!
by alex100 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:47:07 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 3)

Two things

1)  many people watched the press conference coverage and watched all of it and KNOW for themselves what Wright is about.

2)  Obama got angry at the being called a politician part and NOT the other parts.  In renouncing him he clearly shows that he is reacting to people watching Wright and not to what Wright said which most people can see is what he usually says.  People don't believe Wright changed his positions or voicing of his positions to hurt Obama.

This cuts to Obama's credibility and he has many other mini scandals where he is relying on his credibility to say no no Rezko didn't ask anything for his $600,000 to buy my garden etc.


by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:47:08 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Obama got angry at the being called a politician part and NOT the other parts.

That is not true.


Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:49:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 3)


The other parts he defended in his throw grand mamma from the train speech.
by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:09:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

In the "More Perfect Union" speech, Obama denounced Wrights statements and said Wright did not have the correct view of America, and he also tried to provide context for why Wright thought the way he did.

That's a far cry from defending the remarks.  



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:16:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Something like I can no more renounce rev Wright than I can my own racist grandma were his words.


by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 05:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

No, it wasn't something like that. As you know.

Snark only works when based in truth. He was talking about why he couldn't do the politically expediant thing of "throwing Wright under the bus" because denouncing the Man when all that was wrong were the Comments would be shallow and insincere. And part of the inhumanity that is how politics is played in America right now.

You may not like the guy, but give the speech credit, it was atypical and brave, a singular moment in a historic campaign. In a parallel universe if Hillary had to do the same, and did, it'd have been just as notable.

He mentioned his Grandmother to provide context to the complex web that is human relationships. Especially when, prior to this year it appears,  politicians didn't have to answer for what people say in church (as long as it was a church, but I digress...)

So, stop doing that.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:40:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

What particularly angered me was his suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing.


by Trickster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

And that shows he was angry about that and "NOT the other parts"?



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

This is so much bigger than Obama and no silver-tongued rhetoric can uncork the bottle. For the first time, Obama is beholden to circumstances behind his control.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:53:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

What the heck is that supposed to mean? Do you have any basis to back that up?


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

maybe people say his denunciation as (2.00 / 3)

political expediency? I sure did, I'm sure he was mad, but he was mad because it was hurting his poll numbers.  Maybe A.As are mad he denounced him, if they really saw it as an attack on their culture, they naturally wouldn't like Obama backing down on it.

Who knows... maybe his denunciation came too late and the image was already stuck in people's minds and maybe people are finally starting to pay attention to polls in OH.FL.PA


DEMOCRATIC 08!
by rigsoHC on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:47:38 PM EST

Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 4)

the uniter and inspirational figure of Jan/Feb is no more, he doesnt have that aura anymore, and without that, what does he have really? no accomplishments, the only thing he had was his rhetoric and if that becomes a tough sell, well.  I'm just hopin he contines tanking, and S.D see it, I don't want to lose this election.

P.S: I would vote for obama in a heartbeat were he the nominee.


DEMOCRATIC 08!
by rigsoHC on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:49:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

"I would vote for obama in a heartbeat were he the nominee."

That's good to hear.  I would do the same for Clinton.  I am concerned that many Clinton supporters don't feel the same was as you.


by ProgressiveDL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:53:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

Honestly, I still view Obama as a charlatan. "Hope" and "change" as a campaign platform sounds a little 8th grade hall monitorish to me. Always has. I'll have to think of Ruth Bader and then vote Obama in November. Because there's no way that lady can hold on another 8 years....


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:56:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

I'd like to hope a McCain presidency wouldn't last more than 4, but who knows?  With our luck he'd get a right-wing crazy VP who would officially have the best chance of inheriting a presidency since Truman.


by ProgressiveDL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:58:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

And as much as you are frustrated by his empty-sounding rhetoric, I am frustrated with her repeated exaggerations and truthiness.  Obama has had a few as well, but hers are much more common and much more serious to me.


by ProgressiveDL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:59:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

Every great maestro is entitled to "poetic license." That's all the Bosnia thing was, poetic license. I can understand when Clinton talks economy, national security, education, transportation, energy, etc. and Obama is just transitioning from his passive-aggressive hit job talk of "typical Washington politics" and only touches on these issues, that there is really a profound difference between the two Dem candidates.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:05:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

Well, policy wise there really isn't much difference at all, but OK.  

Either would likely be the best president we've had in a loooong time, which is primarily because of the stronger progressive infrastracture that exists today to hold either somewhat accountable.  So while I don't love Hillary, I fully expect that she'd be a better president than her Husband and will work to get her elected if she wins the nomination.    


by HSTruman on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:09:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

Obama's, a smart guy, he'd be a great president. I just don't feel him the same way I feel Clinton, you feel me?

I basically view Hillary as a smarter Bill but without all the scandals.

Yeah, with all the blogs and Internets and stuff, any Dem president would be held more accountable, good point.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:17:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

I love it.  She gets caught in a bald-faced lie and its just "poetic license?"  If that were Obama you would be writing a diary on it every week.  I agree with Clinton on the majority of issues, and I would have to vote for her over McCain, but "poetic license?"  Come on man.  6 in 10 Americans consider her to be "untruthful."  Call it what it is.  She lied.  She got caught.  And she doesn't have the guts to admit it.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 2)

Thankfully, we have the media (which is apparently giving Hillary a "free ride") and the rest of the bloggers to constantly bring this up.

As far as Obama lies, how about his claim that he gave a speech opposing the Iraq War during his Senate campaign?  How about his claim that Hillary's health care plan would force poor people who couldn't afford it to buy in?  How about his disingenuous claim that he doesn't take lobbyist money (he takes money bundled by lobbyists, he takes it from their families, just not from "registered lobbyists"; he also gives big favors based on lobbying, see, e.g., ethanol)?  


by RedSox04 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:27:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

Wow, good answer! Yeah, what this guy says.

By the bye, great handle. Game four of the 2004 series was the greatest game ever. If the Yankees had gotten that ground rule double instead of the ball bouncing off the back wall, they would've swept the Sox. But instead the Sox came back and won it all.

It's an apt analogy for Hillary methinks.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

If you are talking about Tony Clark in Game 5, it WAS a ground rule double and it screwed the Yankees in many ways.  I assume you are talking about the ball he hit that basically climbed its way into the stands.


by ProgressiveDL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:35:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

No, I'm talking about game four, which the Red Sox needed to win to stay in the series.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

Hillary's healthcare plan would (notice I said would, because there is no way in hell Congress will pass a healthcare bill with mandates) force you to buy in.  That's what a mandate is.  

Mandate = mandatory.  

Mandatory = everyone has to enroll.  

Everyone = everyone including poor people.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:34:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

Umm, you're not reading.  Obama made the false/misleading claim that it would force poor people who couldn't afford it to buy in, and that they would then suffer.  He did not mention that Hillary's plan includes a subsidy.

So either you got duped, or you're also not a fan of the Truth (much like Saint Obama).


by RedSox04 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (2.00 / 1)

You're not a fan of poetry, I take it?


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:28:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

I do enjoy poetry, especially Poe.  But I think you are bastardizing the term "poetic license" just a wee bit.  Poetic license is Hillary giving a bit of a polish to her role in the Ireland peace process.  Yes she probably did some great things, no not as much as she claimed, but on the whole she was involved.  

Completely fabricating an entire story about snipers, ceremonies being canceled, running with heads down to an armored convoy, and then repeating it seven times.  That is just plain lying.  Not poetry.  No license.  Lying.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:38:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

Oooh, lying! DOING JEREMIAH WRIGHT SPIRITUAL ADVISER VOO-DOO HAND SIGNAL THING FROM THE NATIONAL PRESS CLUB Oooh, lying about going to a dangerous war zone as first lady and helping to improve diplomatic relations. I'm ashamed and embarrassed.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

That's what makes you "low information" voter.  Go play with something shiny and let the adults talk about politics.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 05:32:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

I'd say this is most fitting for the campaign your favorite "poet" has been running...

"To vilify a great man is the readiest way in which a little [wo]man can [her]self attain greatness."


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

Try this:

"To vilify a great [wo]man is the readiest way in which a little man can himself attain greatness."

Or this: "Most often men who lack testicular fortitude will attempt to belittle a woman who has it" - RedstateLib


"RedStateLib-The condition of being a Liberal who finds themselves living in a state that never should have gone to Bush in 2000."
by RedstateLib on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

Bald faced lie? How about Obama claiming it isn't his handwriting on the survey where he supported a total ban on handguns.
Guess what, it is his handwriting, plain as day, and he knew it full well when he lied about it on national tv.

At least, Clinton really was in a war zone, Bo just lied with no justification at all.


by the Walrus on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:41:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

I'm not justifying that Obama was not telling the truth.  But, I find someone not remembering whether they personally wrote on an informational survey a bit less of a fib than completely fabricating a yarn about being shot at in a war zone.  But that's just me.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 05:35:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lies and Exaggerations (none / 0)

I don't see it quite as much as a flat-out lie where she tried to get away with something.  I think she probably convinced herself (or someone else convinced her) that it was more dangerous than it really was.  And she may have exaggerated on her own as well.

The pregnant-woman issue was one in which her campaign just didn't fact-check a story told to her.  

The "I always pressured Bill on issues he supported that I did not, but I also fought for the good things" is something completely unfalsifiable.  There is no way to know what Hillary did, or did not, whisper to Bill in the halls of the White House.  But in the context of these other missteps, I'm not inclined to put blind faith in her claims.

The "I saved Ireland" meme is a blatant exaggeration.  

It seems Hillary's claim that she was always against NAFTA is is an out and out lie.  That's the one that bothers me the most.

That being said, I think the "tea with ambassadors" depiction definitely understated her experience.  


by ProgressiveDL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

Wow.  Maybe I'm ignorant, but I didn't realize she was that old... Just think of the things they could do with one more conservative on the bench...  it's really scary.


by semiquaver on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:06:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

She's been sick. And Stevens is not getting any younger. The "twins," Breyer and Souter, who really look nothing alike but get confused for each other frequently in the MSM, probably are okay for another 8 years. But you never know.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:08:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

"I still view Obama as a charlatan. "Hope" and "change" as a campaign platform sounds a little 8th grade hall monitorish to me"

Yeah, it really is ridiculous... Like that "I still believe in a place called Hope," campaign slogan that... who was it?  Oh, yeah, Bill Clinton had in 1992...


by LordMike on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:33:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

I was actually in eighth grade at that time, and the slogan sounded ridiculous to me then, you're right. But Clinton brought more than just slogans to the WH, let's "hope" Obama does the same.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

As an Obama supporter, I can say that, yes, he doesn't have the same aura anymore...  I don't know.... there's only so much a man can take before he finally succumbs.... He's been attacked by Hillary, the media, the GOP, the Canadian government, and his former pastor and confidant...  No other candidate in history has had to endure the same kind of beating this man has...  He's still standing, but for how long?

If it is true... and if the slide is real.. I do hope he has the sense enough to make a deal with someone and bail...  I'll still be mad that fellow democrats ended up doing him in with the kitchen sink, but what are you going to do.  I think it would be a big loss for progressivism, as a whole...  I'm sure the DLC will enact their revenge against the netroots and we will be no more...  and any chance at progressive policies will go the way of the trash heap... the last revenge of the Reagan Democrats, I guess...


by LordMike on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:42:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

You Probama supporters have no idea how unbelievably pathetic this sounds to the rest of us:

"No other candidate in history has had to endure the same kind of beating this man has...  He's still standing, but for how long?"

Really?  Really?  Hillary's basically been tarred and feathered, as this cruel villainess who's willing to do anything to happen, who's racist, who is orchestrating some nefarious Evil Genius campaign, called a b*tch, MSM figures regularly make jokes about her getting killed, etc.

Kerry got hit with a made-up campaign claiming he made up his war record.  Al Gore was attacked by a media that claimed he hired a consultant to dress him in earth tones and that he had claimed to invent the Internet.

And you Probama guys are now whining because after nearly a year of fawning media adoration, they're turning just a little bit on your candidate?  I mean, wow.  Just wow.

At least the stuff they're hitting Obama on is grounded in some substantiated reality.  Whether or not you think the Wright story is unfair (I personally think it's ridiculous), as a matter of objective fact, Obama does have a close tie with Wright, and many people were offended by Wright's statements.  This is contradistinctive from Hillary (I LOVE the Obama folks here who make all sorts of claims about Hillary, as if they knew her from anywhere but the media's negative coverage of her, without any factual substantiation), Kerry, or Gore.

If Obama can't handle this EXTREMELY MILD coverage now, he'll get crucified in the general election.  The MEDIA IS NOT THE DEMOCRATS' FRIEND.  THEY WILL TURN ON US IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.  You Obama folks all thought that Hillary was somehow uniquely divisive.  Wrong.  The media is unique in its hatred of Dem politicians.  Now you're beginning to taste a little of that "not-so-fair" coverage, and Obama's wilting.  But to claim that Obama's this Jesus figure is retarded.

Also, Obama is not exactly unfriendly with the DLC types.  You might want to look at his voting record or his record period, before you make such silly claims.

As far as I can tell, the only major votes he differed from HRC on during their contemporaneous Senate term have been 1) ethanol; 2) tort reform; and 3) the Dem amendment to the 2005 Bankruptcy bill (where Obama initially lied and said the amendment would preempt state usury laws; after being confronted with the fact that he was lying by consumer groups, he has since tried to conflate the 2005 Bankruptcy bill with the 01 Bankruptcy bill).  On all 3 of those votes, Obama took the industry position.


by RedSox04 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:55:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

A little bit?  Extremely mild?  You are kidding, aren't you?  The media is baching him 24/7, so is Hillary, so is the GOP, so is McCain, so are foreign governments, so is my cat (OK, I don't have a cat, but if I did, it would be hissing, too...)

I've been involved with politics for a long, long time, and I've never, ever seen anything like it.   Period.  For example, I've never seen a foreign government directly interfere with a primary race.  Have you?

Democrats as a whole face formidable obstacles and have never had a friendly media, but I don't recall Hillary ever having to face a multi front attack.  Even Bill Clinton with Perot had the advantage that Ross attacked both Republicans and Democrats.  


by LordMike on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:32:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ill add to that and say that the Super Obama (none / 0)

Well, I've been in politics since 1968 (my first vote when I was a young precinct committeewoman in Blmgtn, Ind.)  As the other writer says, Obama has been treated exceptionally easily.  Only after the reality of PA and his own inflicted Wright wounds (and the peoples' evident reaction) have the press begun to push him a little.


by christinep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:26:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: maybe people say his denunciation as (none / 0)

If you read the Times this morning, the timeline is something like this:

(1) Monday a.m.:  Wright speaks to National Press Club;

(2) Monday noon: Obama holds subdued mid-day presser, stands by his previous Wright position;

(3) Monday evening: Obama gets a bunch of phone calls from concerned superdelegates;

(4) Tuesday: Obama renounces, denounces, rejects and whatever else is available to be done to Wright.


by Trickster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:39:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

Obama better have a blow out in North Carolina to save his campaign.  Otherwise, he will continue to collapse.  


by karajan72 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:48:22 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

Actually, with these numbers, the expectations are lower. He doesn't need a blow-out in NC.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Part of his logic in NC is that he carries it against McCain.

Without a blow out that appears false.


by DTaylor on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Winning primaries does not predict general election ability.  Period.

I don't know why we continue to speak as if they do.


John McCain believes "Women shouldn't have a choice."
by jturn17 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

It's not the primaries, it's the fact that exit polls continue to show that Obama is losing votes to McCain.

He's become toxic.


by RedSox04 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

Collapse all the way to the finish line, perhaps.

It's amazing to me, the ability of you Clinton supporters to ignore the very basic fact that she is considerably behind.  Your ENTIRE HOPE rests on bevies of S-D's changing their votes.  This is not going to happen.  For many who are elected officials, this would be suicidal for the Fall, and they know it would hurt the party badly as well.  It will not hurt the party for them to go with the pledged delegate leader.  This is not a complicated concept!

In fact, have any SD's changed from Obama to Clinton?  It isn't as if they haven't had plenty of time to do so.  


by Cycloptichorn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:51:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Don't talk suicide. When Clinton is president, perhaps you can get your meds through the universal health care.


Obama-Clinton: The New Glory of America
by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:57:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Considering the historic collapse of the Democratic majority in Congress under Billy Boy, I wouldn't bet on it.  I don't know if you've noticed, but the President can't just do things.  They have to get passed by the legislature first.  

Hillary can't just "fight" her way through a deadlock.  I know she's "tough" and "won't stop fighting for me" etc.  But that's not how things get done in Washington.  Fighting breeds partisanship.  Partisanship leads to deadlock.  And deadlock sure as hell is not getting a controversial healthcare plan passed that not even Democrats agree on!  She tried in the 90's and failed, because you CANT JUST FORCE YOUR AGENDA DOWN THE REPUBLICANS THROATS.

It doesn't matter who has the better plan on paper, because it is just that.  I would consider a plan that doesn't completely cover everyone, but makes it through Congress a much bigger success than a bloody fistfight over healthcare mandates that doesn't amount to anything real.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:22:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

In case you haven't noticed, the Rs like to play "negotiate by attrition".  If you start all the way in the Right-Center, as Obama proposes to do, you'll end up with nothing but corporate subsidies.  

Also, re the "math", this seems silly to me.  The louder that chorus is, the weaker Obama is.  If the math means it's put away, why are you guys whining so loudly?  Do you really think that if Obama loses NC, gets trounced in IN, WV, and KY, and loses every remaining state, that he'll be our nominee?  Would you even want him as our nominee at that point?


by RedSox04 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Democratic deathwatch (none / 0)

Slate (gung-ho for Obama) has a Hillary Deathwatch.

I may have to do an Obama deathwatch for the GE.
I can't understand the rush of the SDs.


by mikelow1885 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what's a blow out? (none / 0)

what percentage?

and if hillary fails to win Indiana, does that mean her campaign collapsed?


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:05:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what's a blow out? (none / 0)

What percentage? Double digit win for O needed in NC if he is to rebuild. She needs a win in Indiana to move forward and build momentum.


by christinep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what's a blow out? (none / 0)

No, with polls like this Obama's expectations have been considerably reset.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:32:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what's a blow out? (2.00 / 1)

Ah, ok.  So, double-digit means 9.2% That's doable.


by ProgressiveDL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 2)

Obama's polling is bad all around

There is a new indiana tracking poll , showing his numbers collapsing too.

http://www.theindychannel.com/politics/1 6106143/detail.html?rss=ind&psp=news

Clinton gets 4 super delegates

http://thepage.time.com/


When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line
by lori on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:48:59 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Wow, that Indiana poll is bad for Obama.


by LakersFan on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:52:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

This survey was done during the 4 days that the Rev Wright story was playing.  This poll was not doen before Obama's denouncing Rev Wright.  Also, today Obama got a super delegate that left Hillary to go to Obama.  Obama only needs 283 more delegates to win.


by Spanky on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:57:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

This is the first Gallup survey to be completely post-Wright's comments on Monday, where the controversy really hit.


by davisb on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:50:33 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

What seems most noticeable about the polling is that Obama didn't start tanking until after he 'denounced' Wright. Why is that?

Because he pissed of a big chunk of his base (i.e., those who agree with Rev. Wright)


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:50:38 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Since when does a "big chunk" of his base agree with Rev. Wright? Can you provide a scintilla of evidence to support that?


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What ? (none / 0)

Did you forget all the calls to view him in the proper context ?


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

Actually, the more positive numbers dropped from the tracking poll.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

One thing is certain, the media has jumped off of the Obama bandwagon and hitting him hard, rightly so! Obama's flip flop on Rev Wright is seen by many as nothing more than pandering to voters, and quite frankly disingenuous and dishonest. First it's "I can't disown Rev Wright anymore than I can disown my family." Then it's "I disown you for your ridiculous comments." Well which is it Obama? You can't have it both ways because your dropping in the polls and your campaign is now in trouble.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:51:09 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 4)

So, does this mean we no longer blame the media when Hillary fails to win the nod?


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:51:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

If there is one thing that Obama should be immune to in a debate vs. Clinton, it is the accusation of dishonesty.  I mean, you have to be kidding me.  This line of attack is coming from the inventors of "that depends on what the meaning of 'is' is?"  Or "heavy sniper fire?"  Or "George Bush let magnaquench leave for China?"


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:24:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

How about "I opposed the Iraq War during my Senate run"?  How about "Hillary Clinton sent a photo of me in Somali dress to Drudge" (after that had been discredited, but conveniently to pander to a majority black Dem primary in Alabama)?  How about "Hillary's health care plan will force poor people who can't afford it to buy in" (without mentioning the subsidy her and JRE's plans both had)?  What about "I don't take money from lobbyists?"

Oh wait, it's never a lie when Saint Obama says it.


by RedSox04 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

The usually mild Denver Post points out the same "desperation" act by Obama's denunciation in its main editorial today.


by christinep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

First he is criticized by sticking with him, now he is criticized for throwing him under the bus!

I never thought I'd see the day when a candidate's Christianity would be put on trial... but, here it is!  Republicans will stop at nothing, will they... and what does that say about Hillary, who's totally on board with that line of attack?


by LordMike on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:45:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (2.00 / 1)

Maybe because its a tracking poll, with which one can measure trends, but as such requires a few more days measurement than just one.

Interesting that the Obama "rebound" after PA, despite lasting for a week didn't pique Jerome's interest, but somehow two tracking polls with a single day's Clinton favor make two posts.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:51:22 PM EST

Re: Gallup confirms the Obama slide (none / 0)

What "rebound" after Pennyslvania? His support has slowly been eroding since Pennsylvania, but since the tracking polls cover 3 days, it takes a few days for the decline to be noticable. But if you look at Gallup, it's been all downhill for him since the 22nd.


by LakersFan on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:59:03 PM EST
[ Parent