Obama's Troubled Waters

Things just aren't going too well for Sen. Obama lately and the poll numbers are showing the trend, as are the favorability numbers. Electability is the only game in this town. Everything else pales in comparison. Hillary is coming on strong as the best candidate for the fall election against Sen. McCain.

It isn't just one thing with Obama, it's a bunch of things. Right now, though, the media just happens to be concentrating on one thing--Rev. Wright. Once they get tired of that one, there are a bunch of other issues to focus on. That's why he can't be our nominee. Someone like Rove would have so many goodies to choose from.

imageshack

Graphic by Pat Racimora, as posted on No Quarter.

I mean, they can take their pick. The Wright issue is a permanent problem because Obama sat in that racist church for 20 years and knew Rev. Wright for 23 years. Trinity UCC practices James H. Cone's Black Liberation Theology and it doesn't get much more racist than that. Look him up on Amazon and get a load of his books. This isn't something that just happened yesterday. Obama considered that church and Rev. Wright for three years prior to joining. Barack took Wrights sermons to Harvard with him in 1988 and listened to them the years he was there. He didn't have to sit in that church to listen to the sermons.

Sen. Obama gave that church $26,000 last year. The TUCC's Trumpet magazine gave Louis Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award last year. He and Jeremiah Wright are old friends, having traveled together to Libya in 1984 to visit Qaddafi.

Sen. Obama can't put Rev. Wright behind him with a simple speech that tries to politically distance himself from the church he's still a member of. It isn't just about the inflammatory things the Rev. has said in his sermons and his public appearances. No, no, no! There's more to it than that. Obama disinvited Wright from his presidential announcement on February 10, 2007. It was reported in the NYT that Obama didn't want his church to receive negative attention. Though Rev. Wright didn't deliver the invocation as he had expected to do, he and Sen. Obama prayed together just before the announcement that Obama was running for president.

While you've all probably heard all of this many times before, should Sen. Obama become our nominee, there will be no end of it as the GOP, the RNC, the 527s, and Sen. McCain would drive home the point that Sen. Obama is way too far out of the mainstream to be considered as a president.

But wait! Just look into Obama's Candy Store window and you'll see a wide variety of treats for Republicans to drool over. So many issues, so many unanswered questions. There's Tony Rezko and all the slimy Chicago politics. There's Nadhmi Auchi, the Iraqi-British billionaire who gave Syrian-born Rezko millions of dollars. There's also the Iraqi power plant deal that fell through involving Obama, Rezko, Auchi, and Aiham Alsammarae, Iraq's former electricity minister. Too bad the Iraq war proved to be an inconvenience. There's also self-described communist and domestic terrorist William Ayers who helped Obama launch his Chicago political career. BTW, what did Obama do for 8 years in the Illinois Senate, exactly? Where are the records?

Oh, but wait, there's more! Every hear about Obama's Global Tax proposal? Might as well hear about it from a GOP source now, rather than later.

Yep, sure looks like Obama is swimming in troubled waters and he'll be treading that water for the rest of his political career.

paganpower

This is my first diary and I'd like to end it with Flineo's latest awesome video:




The point is, we need to know who the best candidate is for the fall. It would be a shame to nominate the first black candidate in US history, only to have him lose. It'd be much better to nominate the first woman in history if she's the best one to beat John McCain. The upcoming contests will add further proof that Hillary is the one.



Display:


Tip Jar for my first diary (1.96 / 28)

Hope you like it. :)


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:21:50 AM EST

love it! (2.00 / 9)

great diary.
by linc on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:25:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: love it! (2.00 / 7)

Thanks, Linc! Wow, my very first comment and it's a nice one! Sure appreciate it.


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:34:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: love it! (2.00 / 7)

Ditto that.  Great job - Recommended.

Welcome to the good fight Nobama.  I hope we see more diaries from you in the coming days =)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 01, 2008 at 07:43:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Healthcare is far more important. (2.00 / 4)

Right now, I think Obama's Laissez-faire economics on healthcare is a luxury that people can't afford. Especially middle class people who can be devastated by the uncovered costs inherent to Obama's 'choice' based cheap plans. Have you noticed how McCain (who is clearly intending to
gut the group-negotiated healthcare
Americans receive now.. ) has stared picking up on Obama's 'choice' meme?

Choice (nudge nudge wink wink)  = America becoming a third world country...


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:16:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Healthcare is far more important. (none / 0)

Do tell, how do you expect Hillary to pass her healthcare plan that includes mandates through Congress?  You and I both know the GOP will fight tooth and nail to prevent it from being implemented.  It doesn't matter how much "better" her plan is, when it stands a snowball's chance in hell.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:59:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Healthcare is far more important. (none / 0)

I agree... anything tying private insurance with mandates will lack Congressional approval...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: love it! (1.50 / 2)

yeah me too I hope to see more diaries from you to especially when HRC drops out

ps By the way if I were you I would not look at the news right now another super delegate loyal to the clintons  switched to Obama today

yep good diary i will recommend


PUMA: Particularly Undeveloped Mental Ability
by wellinformed on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:15:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: love it! (none / 0)

Up-rated for being a good sport. Appreciate the recommendation. :)


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

are you a Democrat, or a Republican (none / 0)

I can't tell.

Honestly, let me presume you're dealing in good faith. What are you trying to do? Tear down our presumptive nominee in the hopes that Hillary wins at the late August convention?

Brilliant.


Clinton Democrats care about the same things I do, most importantly beating John McCain.
by TrueBlueCT on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: are you a Democrat, or a Republican (none / 0)

Obama is not the presumptive nominee.


by slynch on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:08:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He represents about the best the right could hope (none / 0)

for, after Bush...


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: love it! (2.00 / 2)

Ditto that.  Great job - Recommended.

Welcome to the good fight Nobama.  I hope we see more diaries from you in the coming days =)

Thanks, Alegre. I owe it all to you! You're my inspiration. If it wasn't for you, your writer's strike of the orange one, and your Yahoo! group, I never would have mustered up the courage. Thanks to the wonderful group of people on that message board! Thanks to linfar for the encouragement.


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:54:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Great Diary! But the shark is this : (2.00 / 4)

When Hillary's campaign invited her 'Hill Stars', ardent volunteer supporters to Iowa, they sent out paperwork for those individuals to add up hotel stays and any other expenses as campaign donations, as they legally should be. One of the edges Obama's campaign has maintained in fund raising is not putting the same restraints on non-cash donations to the Obama campaign. Why should they? It was building a movement. Sorry to say, even movements are subject to laws.

Supporters of the Obama campaign in Chicago have also continued to hold lavish parties where Chicagoans of note have been giving money to the campaign far beyond the legal limit through untracked party attendance, each party held by a different stakeholder in the Mayor Daley cabal.

From this great but below-the-radar diary.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/29/2150 59/409


by ellend818 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:15:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you for the link! (2.00 / 1)

An excellent diary that I had missed. Great info, informative, complex. Harper used to publish stuff like this. I wish they would again. Definitely worth of professional publication.


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:53:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great Diary! But the shark is this : (none / 0)

Thanks, Ellen, and thanks for that link! Very interesting and highly recommended!


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:02:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Link between Harvard and Nazi Party marching songs (none / 0)

Lots of interesting stuff here (link below) about the rise and interaction of the technocrats in Germany and the US, Hitler's Taylorism/Fordism, etc.  We need to be careful that the modern inheritors of this clique do not gain control of the USA!

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/ wall_street/chapter_08.htm


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:11:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: love it! (none / 0)

I cannot believe you would paint a broad stroke against every congregant of the Trinity United Church of Christ as being part of racist church. How small your mind must be. Jeremiah Wright may have some pretty wacky views, but I went and watched as many sermons as I could find online, and most of them, were, well, boring. He got loud, he shouted for Jesus, blah blah blah.  But racist, sorry, didn't see that.

You support Hillary, fine, but to disparage an entire group of people because of one man makes me sick. It's like saying we're all idiots and morons because George Bush got elected twice.

Personally, I don't care who wins the primaries, I'm voting for either Democrat. Neither is my favorite, but I'm sick and tired of people trying to destroy a church who has done a lot of good in their community because they think the retired pastor is an idiot and somehow it lifts their candidate up. It doesn't, it makes people who spout this garbage sound petty and stupid.


by Kyrial on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:56:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tip Jar for my first diary (2.00 / 2)

Nice job.

$26,000!

I didn't know that!

OMG...Obama will never live that down if he get the nomination.  Please let this now fatally flawed candidate see the light.  

Can you say "dream ticket?"?

Obama for VP?  Then everyone wins, right?


Pride & Prejudice...The American Way!
by FISG on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:05:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

OMG Obama donated money (none / 0)

to a church!  I bet a lot of it went to feeding poor people.  That makes him unelectable right there.

Of course, he was probably just giving Wright a bonus for every anti-American screed because he knew it would help his political career mapped out since Kindergarten.


by corph on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:06:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tip Jar for my first diary (2.00 / 6)

Super first diary nobama.

Now don't be a stranger.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:31:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tip Jar for my first diary (2.00 / 2)

Thanks, NH!


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:57:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's Racist CHURCH (1.75 / 4)

   I am really SICK AND TIRED of WHITE PEOPLE like YOU Calling Black people RACIST. Exactly what has Black racism done to affect your life. Are Black people denying you jobs, denying you oppurtunity. If you enter a black neighborhood and i doubt you ever have in your LIFE, do people treat you badly, do you hear racial slurs. What exactly is Racist about Obama's church, i would like to know.

   Is Martin Luther King a RACIST... Is any black person who says anything about white America Racist... You realize calling black people racist is not a strategy to get black people to vote for Hillary but you can care less about that. You dont like black people cause they are not happy with America, well i guess you and your white friends can run elect Hillary by yourself. Blacks are tired of being called racist every 5 minutes because you refuse to acknoledge that BAD THINGS HAPPENED IN AMERICA.

    White supremacy created Wright and now your mad he exists, you say he is a racists! The man has fought racism his WHOLE LIFE. The church was started because of RACISM, because Whites did not accept them. You forget history so quickly, maybe blacks need to find another party where they can be accepted and respectd.


by edtastic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:41:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Racist CHURCH (2.00 / 3)

Uh, excuse me but TUCC is based on James H. Cone's Black Liberation Theology. Have you looked into that? I haven't seen any attitudes more racist than that. If you'd like to discuss it, I suggest you start your own diary.


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:01:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Racist CHURCH (none / 0)

Up-rated edtastic's comment because it isn't right to troll-rate just because you disagree.


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Racist CHURCH (none / 0)

Edtastic, I'm sorry to say, these people don't care at all about you.  They have their little pea brains set on the idea that Black theology is racist.  I dunno, I see it as uplifting the black population, because, lord knows, a lot of white Americans don't bother to do it.


by Kyrial on Thu May 01, 2008 at 05:08:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tip Jar for my first diary (none / 0)

I don't like it,  This is another smear campaign approach that if it were against Clinton people here would be up in arms.

This is TR worthy material.

STOP POSTING THIS CRAP.

Good day sir,

I said good day sir!


by Why Not on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I do like it Nobama, (2.00 / 2)

even more than I like your screen name. This diary is so nicely put together, it's hard to believe it's your first.


by georgiapeach on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:04:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I do like it Nobama, (2.00 / 1)

Thanks, georgiapeach! I learned from Alegre, TexasDarlin, linfar, NewHampster, and other great diarists. Prior to a couple weeks ago, I didn't have a clue how to embed a graphic or YouTube video. I knew nothing at all about HTML and still don't, really. I just looked at the code from other diaries to see how they were done.

It took me about 2 months to work up the courage to post this first diary.


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:17:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I used to understand HTML (none / 0)

and all that other stuff before my brain quit working. I wouldn't even begin to attempt it now.


by georgiapeach on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 5)

every time i see your name it makes me laugh out loud.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:24:46 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 4)

An interesting question:

This week we learned the limit of a dream in American politics. At Barack Obama's darkest hour, not one prominent ally came forward to support him. Everyone abandoned Everyman.

No prominent black clergyman came forth to make even the simple point that Jeremiah Wright's notion of the "black church" is but one point on a spectrum of faith. Rev. Wright, now written off as a virtual nut case, got more support from black clergymen than did Obama.

Barack Obama was bleeding by Monday and needed cover. Where, when he could have used them, were Obama's oh-so-famous endorsers: Jesse Jackson, Ted Kennedy, Oprah, John Kerry, Chris Dodd, Patrick Leahy, Tom Daschle, Amy Klobuchar, Claire McCaskill, Jay Rockefeller, John Lewis, Toni Morrison, Roger Wilkins, Eric Holder, Robert Reich, Ted Sorenson, Alice Walker, David Wilhelm, Cornel West, Clifford Alexander, Donald McHenry, Patricia Wald, Newton Minow?

Where were all the big-city mayors who went over to the Obama camp: Chicago's Richard Daley, Cleveland's Frank Reynolds, Atlanta's Shirley Franklin, Washington's Adrian Fenty, Newark's Cory Booker, Baltimore's Sheila Dixon?

Does anyone know if any prominent Obama surrogate has spoken out on his behalf this week ?


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:27:32 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 4)

yeah - i saw john kerry on msnbc saying this wright issue is a media manufacturing controversy and was lecturing them that they should stop covering it.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:29:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

when did you see that ? (none / 0)


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:34:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when did you see that ? (none / 0)

i saw it tonight on verdict with dan abrams - but i think it was from earlier in the day.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:36:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Joe Scarborough (2.00 / 1)

self proclaimed Hillary lover said that Obama has now put Wright behind him.  Obama says so them it must be.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:33:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Scarborough (2.00 / 3)

Yes Obama has put it behind. That does not mean the public has.


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry to Bust your bubble (none / 0)

People don't care about the Rev. Wright issue as much as you would like to think, it will pass, I think Michelle addressed this on NBC this morning.  Do we really want to get into a Preacher war here, then people better concentrate on Ron Parsley, Hagee, and Fallwell.  Hillary's preacher defended Rev. Wright:
http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=3982

John Kerry came out and I am sure there will be more to follow. Look at this:
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx? id=1669b75b-d1d1-4ed6-9052-70e2d82cae06

Here is another one for you:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/4/30/th e_politics_of_the_rev_wright

Obama is tied in Superdelegates now, its was reported yesterday by McCaskill that it looks good for the Obama Camp.

Rezko, Flagpins, and Bill Ayers aren't important and Bill pardoned two of the Bill Ayers followers, Ayers was never convicted.

Chicago's Richard Daley, Cleveland's Frank Reynolds, Atlanta's Shirley Franklin, Washington's Adrian Fenty, Newark's Cory Booker, Baltimore's Sheila Dixon?

None of these people matter right now, these States have already voted, they will come out in the General Election for Obama.

Lets do some Math: Obama's ahead in the Popular Vote - Pledged Delegates - won more States - tied in Super Delegates - raised more money.

Maybe these headlines will make to America

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7 376741.stm


by pjamerica on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:03:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, good job (2.00 / 2)

throwing sand all over when you cant answer the question


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:56:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What question? (none / 0)

Whether Obama backers came out and defended him?  Obviously yes, follow the links.

Does Obama secretly believe Wright's screeds?  Only if you're a bitter Clinton supporter.


by corph on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:09:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry to Bust your bubble (2.00 / 1)

I guess elites like you have never heard of "Bubba" vote. He ain't getting it in NC.


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:49:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Its just the beginning (2.00 / 9)

thank god for the long primary and thank you Hillary for sticking it out! We need a candidate who can take it- sorry Obama, that's just not you this year.
by linc on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:29:12 AM EST

Re: Its just the beginning (2.00 / 1)

"that's just not you this year..."  

What difference does timing make...?  Or is this another, "wait your turn" thing...?

If these "issues" make Obama "fatally flawed" and compromised, any other year would not make a difference....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:04:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can't believe I have to actually spell this out (2.00 / 2)

for you, but okay. Timing would have made a difference because Obama would have a national record to run on, some experience, some familiarity to voters. It's not about his turn, it's about his resume. People with paper thin ones should really think twice about running for president, especially when they have an albatross the size of Wright around their necks.


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:03:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 1)

I'm can't wait to see what the No Quarters and Taylor Marsh sites are going to do once Obama is our nominee.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:31:08 AM EST

Probably set up base (2.00 / 2)

on earth's third moon- oh wait, that's in Obamaland... oops.
by linc on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:35:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Probably set up base (none / 0)

very cute. I still believe that there is hope for you though :)


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:39:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 2)

I believe they were doing great work long before Obama ever became a nominee but thanks for wondering.

Some other wonderful sites:

http://www.talkleft.com/
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discu ssion/
http://anglachelg.blogspot.com/
http://nomoreapples.blogspot.com/
http://donnadarko.wordpress.com/
http://correntewire.com/
http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/
http://noratings.blogspot.com/
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/
http://makethemaccountable.com/
http://hillarysvoice.reclusiveleftist.co m/
http://www.memeorandum.com/
and many more.


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:44:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (none / 0)

Yes, it's always great when your visitor count drops by more than half.

You know what though, someone should register hillarywassupposedtobe44.org


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 1)

Recommending diary now. Thanks.
Barack Obama is my President
by Jeter on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:52:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 1)

Hell, I'll recommend the diary


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:57:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (none / 0)

I just did

I will make it a clinton support group site where her supporters and go and cope with the loss together

hillarywassupposedtobe44.org

register today  


PUMA: Particularly Undeveloped Mental Ability
by wellinformed on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:50:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for that. I only have time to really even look at one or two places, but I'll keep those sites in mind if I want to branch out.
Barack Obama is my President
by Jeter on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:50:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 2)

I was just questioning the tenor of this post. It seems a little less than magnanimous towards another Democrat. I'm pretty confident that Clinton will be the nominee. The list of reasons provided can be disputed forever, but the point that they need to be debated says enough already to me as far as Obama is concerned, There is probably 0% chance that Clinton would lose to McCain.

But then you come along and drag two websites (I assume they are websites) into the discussion to...I don't know... while making the statement that Obama will be our nominee. I don't zero out or troll rate posts as I believe we do at some point need to come together, and I don't believe in censorship. But you seem to be complaining about what might be said at other sites than myDD. Why don't you go to those other sites yourself? I just don't see what your post adds to this diary.


Barack Obama is my President
by Jeter on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:47:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 2)

The diarist did use a graphic from No Quarter. Mr. Larry Johnson of No Quarter has no shame. The guy is a hack. Go over to the site and see for yourself. The user comments are just great.

As for Ms. Marsh, well she isn't so bad herself. She actually posted the photo of Obama holding the phone upside down knowing fully well that it was photoshopped. But of course, she kept it up there, because it was news.

Listen, even if I buy into everything the anti-Obama camp spills here and elsewhere, he's still better than McCain. A thousand times better. So, why is it that true Democrats and progressive dedicate 95% of their resources to bringing down a good democrat? You have to wonder. I question their motivation. I question their method. And as this site becomes more of an attack platform on Obama, I think it's highly appropriate to point out dumb sites (and their disingenuous handlers) whenever content from said sites is used


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:29:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, here's why I'm not sanguine about him (2.00 / 2)

His nomination will return us back to the unfavorable reputation we had prior to Clinton taking office.  I've lived through too many landslides in my life.  At least in the last two elections, the game was in doubt until the end.


by lombard on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:30:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Most of us didn't start out like that (2.00 / 1)

I myself was both pro-Hillary and Pro-Obama for quite a while. It was his campaign's race-baiting and accusations, followed by the vitriol of his supporters against Clinton, and their disgusting attempts to malign former President Clinton and his wife, a former Fist Lady and sitting US Senator. At that point, I had to say what's good for the gander is good for the goose. And also I have no tolerance for assholes.


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:19:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chances (none / 0)

I give Senator Clinton a 1% chance of securing the Democratic nomination.  Short of some new scandal that sinks Obama quickly, it won't happen.

I base this opinion on the comments and hints coming from national Democrats, almost none of whom have spoken out in favor of undeclared superdelegates supporting the candidate who loses the pledged delegate race.  Howard Dean spoke the truth when he said that SDs are not required to support the winner of the primaries, but there was no suggestion in his comments that SDs ought to support the second-place finisher.  Same with Donna Brazile.

It seems clear to me that many SDs who intend to support Obama are holding back because they don't want to offend Clinton's supporters by fostering a perception that they are somehow short-circuiting the process.  But they recognize that Clinton cannot hope to close the pledged delegate gap significantly with the remaining primaries.  She won PA by 9 points and barely closed the gap by that number of delegates.  

Senator Clinton has been forced to make an argument based upon popular votes, which itself relies upon including MI, where Obama wasn't on the ballot and about which she is on the record as saying that the results wouldn't count.  It's clear from the relative silence out there that few Democratic leaders find this argument compelling.  

I think both our candidates could beat McCain.  As I say, I believe the odds are 99-1 that Clinton won't get the opportunity to show whether or not she can.


by deminva on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:56:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 1)

Probably work to save Obama's ass and salvage the election in November and then begin working towards 2012.  Along with all the other non-campaign oriented work they do too.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:00:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

in 2016? (2.00 / 2)

after 8 years of President Hillary they might not even have a site.

BTW, i don't think Obama will really have a chance in 2016.  Too much stuff about Rezko etc...


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:40:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 5)

I think Obama used Rev Wright for his political gains. Something doesnt add up here for me. 20 years of relationship, spiritual mentor, great friend, mentioned in book as someone to revere, mentioned as someone whose importance is the same as his grandmother and black community and then suddenly showing an outrage when he says you are a politician?

Not a good sign of things to come from Obama.


by Sandeep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:35:31 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 4)

Why don't you guys give it a rest?  The absolute ignorance of the Obama-haters on this subject is incredible.  Could you for one minute just look at this relationship (any relationship for that matter) and see that it is a little more complex than just white or black.  You are making everything fit into a non-existant box to define a person and people are just not like that.
Hillary sat with Bill (and you DO pick your husband, just like your pastor) for over 30 years, while he played around - tsk tsk...as she will tell you, it was never so simple as 'stay' or 'leave.'
Rev Wright is not Obama - he will never live with him in the white house, make day-to-day decisions or  conduct business with him.  He was his pastor and now Obama is pissed off that his loyalty and respect was so disregarded by a person he thought highly of -
You know over at the 'other' blogs tonight...names I won't mention, I saw some very positive comments from Obama supporters over the O'Reilly interview with Hillary - surprising, huh??
That one minute of benefit for Obama just couldn't happen with you guys could it?
by mariannie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:00:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill's not shouting (2.00 / 5)

God Damn America or peddling the preposterous idea that the US government created AIDS to kill blacks.  Do you not get the difference here?


Unity Ticket: The best damn way to kick John McCain's Ass in November!
by aurelius on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:48:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How sweet of them to spare a few kind words (1.80 / 5)

After they spent months trashing Senator Clinton and the only Democratic president since FDR to be reelected.

I don't like Obama but I dislike his supporters far more.  I dislike them because they are selling us down the river in order to fuel their own narcissism and Utopian zeal.  Even if he gets crushed in November they'll still refuse to admit that they were wrong.  They'll blame the country - all the rubes and ignorant masses.  


by lombard on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:38:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How sweet of them to spare a few kind words (2.00 / 2)

And my candidate is called the arrogant one... sheesh.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:46:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How sweet of them to spare a few kind words (2.00 / 3)

Exactly. And they seem rather naive too. Obama is no liberal or progressive, he even has said so in interviews, and already has started throwing them under the bus (Fox interview). He wants to privatize Social Security for goodness sake- the idiotic thing that Bush kept trying to push that lost the 2006 congressional elections for the Republicans. (More than even the war) Privatizing Social Security is a far right wing Republican moronic idea. Obama also thinks that far right winger Roberts is just the absolute best justice on the Supreme Court and said that's the kind of justice he'd appoint- the type that doesn't believe in Civil liberties. He was really wanting to vote "yes" on Roberts until other Democrats told him that would be political suicide. He also voted for Cheney's sleazy energy bill, he thinks abstinence education is the best form of sex education...

Where they got the idea Obama was in any shape a liberal or progressive I don't know. I read his actual stated opinions and checked his voting history and knew he was no liberal or progressive. Hillary is a progressive, her words and actions show this. I love how they bleat about the Iraq war vote without bothering to actually read what she voted for and what she said. They bleat about NAFTA and ignore that she was arguing strongly against it when Bill proposed it (as anyone who was there for the conversations states, including Gergan and Steffanoppalous- neither who are friendly to her. Those two wanted NAFTA and urged Bill to support it. Hillary argued against it.) She's always seen it as problematic. And the last thing (that has any weight at all- the stupid stuff about Bill's infidelity has absolutely zero to do about Hillary.)  they always bleat about is Walmart. Never bothering to look into the fact that she went in to change things for the better for the workers- and she succeeded- things did improve significantly while she was on the board for the workers, she did keep trying to get them to go union all the time she was there, the one thing she wasn't able to get them to budge on. They ignore that Michelle Obama worked at similar corporate positions and did nothing for the workers, in fact conditions worsened and there were big job losses while she was there. They ignore how Obama supported Rezko when he cut off  power to low income residents in winter in his substandard housing, etc...  


by K1966 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:38:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How sweet of them to spare a few kind words (2.00 / 1)

I know that some of Obama's positions and votes make him look somewhat right of center but that's all part of his ploy. He really is a leftist but he's pulling the wolf in sheep's clothing routine. He's the one who is doing anything, saying anything to get into power. If he succeeds, the true nature of his leftist self would then present itself.

Don't forget that Obama is the student of Saul Alinsky.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsk y

Quoted there is this excerpt from Alinsky's Rules for Radicals:

"There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevsky said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the 40 per cent of American families - more than seventy million people - whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year [in 1971]. They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default.."

To learn more about this, please read:

BARACK OBAMA'S UNLIKELY POLITICAL EDUCATION.

http://www.pickensdemocrats.org/info/The Agitator_070319.htm

Please don't be fooled by Obama. He'll bamboozle you, hoodwink you if you don't watch out.


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:54:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How sweet of them to spare a few kind words (none / 0)

Well said.

However, I think that if Obama gets crushed in the GE, they will blame Hillary much more than the ignorant masses.


by talktomei on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

beieve it or not (2.00 / 3)

while the Clinton's marriage is none of your business, people do actually think it is a good thing to keep a marriage together.  

On the other hand, there are many many churches out there and Obama could have gone to a different one anytime.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:49:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: beieve it or not (1.00 / 1)

well if the marriage of BILLARY is off the none of our business neither is who used to be Obama's pastor

stop with the hypocrisy  


PUMA: Particularly Undeveloped Mental Ability
by wellinformed on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:55:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Apparently hundreds of thousands (none / 0)

of voters disagree with you.  Maybe you need a reality check.  Whether President and Senator Clinton hold their marriage together is their own business.  But those who give counsel to candidates give important information to voters especially if the candidate has been so secretive and duplicitous about his time in the Illinois Senate and about his relationship with Wright, Ayers, Davis, Rezko, Auchi, etc., etc., etc.  The only way we can have a clue about who this guy is is to look at his close relationships and those relationships are ALL damning about his character.


by macmcd on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:08:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (none / 0)

Obama didn't "suddenly" do anything, as a matter of fact had he immediately done something about Wright before he even began his campaign that would fit the critical posture you are now saying he engaged in anyway. This is really unbelievable. Democrats and liberals are throwing a candidate overboard because of his affiliation to a church. What utter bullshit.

What this crowd doesn't understand, or more likely just wishes away, is that the 2008 general election will be defined first and foremost by turnout. Massive turnout. With the increases we have seen in people aligning with the Democratics, with the monumental shift we have seen in the outpouring of young voters, this election is going to be won by a Democrat with the most votes that any Presidential candidate has ever gotten. All this polling BS is just that, BS. The Democratic tide is going to wash over the Capitol, and all the hand-wringing and bithcing that goes on at this site is not going to stop it. When you couple the exploding rolls of the Dem party with a Republican candidate, who though he polls well now will have a very difficult time matching the turnout with a constituency that distrusts him, this has the potential to be aa blow out election. Deal with it.


by AHunch on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 3)

Love the diary, love the username.  

I am new here too!

You write well.  

"I didn't inhale." (wink, wink)

"I wasn't in church that day."  (wink, wink)


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:50:54 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 1)

I wasn't gonna... but you made me...

Things just aren't going too well for Sen. Obama lately and the poll numbers are showing the trend, as are the favorability numbers.
What poll numbers? Looking at RCP National average, Obama is still up. After all that's been happening, if this is what "things aren't going too well" looks like, then by all means, let em look not too good.

Electability is the only game in this town.
Which town? And when was this decided? I didn't get the memo.

Everything else pales in comparison.
No, seriously, what are you talking about?

Hillary is coming on strong as the best candidate for the fall election against Sen. McCain.
And Tiger woods is the best player, but they don't just hand him the damn trophey before they play 18 holes, four times. Guess what happens when he doesn't make the cut! Ouch.

It isn't just one thing with Obama, it's a bunch of things.
Excellent analysis there.

Right now, though, the media just happens to be concentrating on one thing--Rev. Wright.
And he's still up!

Once they get tired of that one, there are a bunch of other issues to focus on. That's why he can't be our nominee.
Wait, wait, wait. "Get tired"? Is that how news organizations decide on what not to cover? And, tell me, for all things holy, who decided that this is why he can't be our nominee? See, I was under the impression that it had a whole lot to do with having the most delegates. Having a "bunch of other issues to focus on", not so much.

Someone like Rove would have so many goodies to choose from.
 Personal favorite. Bravo! You mean, he'll have an attack ad featuring bin laden? You mean, hit Obama on have ties to Rezko, or Ayers? May be even criticize Obama on Wright and say that we can't pick our family, but we sure as hell can pick our pastor? May be even go as far as saying Obama is an empty suit with nothing more than a speech, no experience, this guy! May be call him elitist.

Rove doesn't have to do any of that. It's been done. And he still leads.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:16:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (none / 0)

Is this a response for me or for the diarist?  Since you quoted the diarist, I'll assume the latter.


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:28:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (none / 0)

That was a response to your "you write well" comment


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:18:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 3)

Nobama, you really nailed it.  Great diary, headed to the Recommended list and deservedly so.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 01, 2008 at 01:56:31 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 1)

That video is incredible.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:01:30 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 2)

Wow, that youtube video is WEAK.  

This entire diary is WEAK, actually. If you think for a second Hillary Clinton does not have an entire warehouse full of shit to bring to light should she be the nominee  you have another thing coming.

Are we seriously this stupid?

I'll ask again.

Are we REALLY this stupid?

What's funny is that all of those things pictured in the cartoon are PETTY compared to what can be brought up about Clinton!

Are we REALLY this stupid? Yes or no?

I want her to win, but the flashback to the late 90's pluswhateverelsehaveyou that is apparently ban-worthy to even mention on this site will be brought to the foreground if she's the one representing us this Fall!  Do not think for a second that it won't.  There is a reason more than half the country, off the bat, just based on her history, already DOES NOT TRUST her!

So QUIT trying to divide us!  Focus some lizard brain on MCCAIN for once.


by AlexScott on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:04:46 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 5)

There's nothing new to know about Hillary except the details of any new policy proposals. She was a wonderful first lady and has been an excellent senator for NY. If the GOP wants to rehash all the crap they spent millions investigating for nothing, they'll look desperate and silly. Even so, Hillary knows how to beat them at that game.

Hillary is by far the stronger candidate against McCain. With Obama, there's something new to learn every day. Not good.


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:30:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (none / 0)

Nobama, you have such great poise. :)

Even so, Hillary knows how to beat them at that game.

I totally agree.  Hillary is a fierce, brilliant, savvy politician, and she will take them OUT if she is our nominee.  


by talktomei on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:00:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:NC May be Best & Only Chance for Clinton (2.00 / 3)

Great Diary !

I am starting to believe that Clinton has a shot at upsetting Obama in NC.

If that somehow happens, we are talking about a 8.0 EarthQuake.

Doubts among democrats are rising rapidly everyday.

A double loss in IN & NC, would almost surely cause a May sweep of WV, KY, OR & PR.

We are talking about an almost total collapse of a campaign.

I'm sure both Clinton & Obama understand how so Critical NC is looking.

This may be Clinton's best & last hope of creating a massive sweep & ultimate collapse of the Obama campaign.

For Obama, NC is fast becoming his most important battle of the 2008 primary.


by labanman on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:06:42 AM EST

Clinton will be DOA in the GE: (1.00 / 6)

Exhibit A & B:

Exhibit C: money, sex, pardons and misc. scandals (scores of them).

There's a reason why the Republicans are playing tag team with Clinton to beat up on Obama (both in smearing him and in driving Republicans to vote for Clinton): they want to run against her in the general.

That tag teaming is also a major reason why she improved her performance in TX, OH and PA.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:15:41 AM EST

Re: Clinton will be DOA in the GE: (2.00 / 4)

Yep that is why Obama gets 70% of the Republicans who turn Democrats before voting day and gets beaten by Hillary amongst the blue collar/rural poor white Democrats.

They are so bad, pesky Republicans:-)

And we have a NeuvoLiberal who is distributing videos to tarnish the only popular Democratic president we had in last 20-30 years. He is so good to drivel the same trash which Republicans love to live on.

So who is a bad Republican - NeuvoLiberal or those rural white Democrats?


by Sandeep on Thu May 01, 2008 at 02:40:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Answer: NuevoLiberal (none / 0)


by lombard on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:40:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You can't celebrate the trashing of Obama (1.00 / 1)

and choose to pretend that Clintons don't have baggage.

It turns out that the Clintons have enormous baggage (a good portion of it has never been properly vetted since the they got him on the Lewinsky affair) and unlike Obama's, their baggage is real and not guilt by association crap that the Republican thugs and Clinton supporters (supposedly Democrats or Dem supporters) are throwing at Obama to try and destroy him.

~~~~~

"Yep that is why Obama gets 70% of the Republicans who turn Democrats before voting day and gets beaten by Hillary amongst the blue collar/rural poor white Democrats."

Limbaugh asked his listeners to go vote for HRC in TX and OH (and maybe PA, but I'm not sure). Analysis of TX and OH exit polls has indicated that the Limbaugh effect was indeed present in strong measure; IIRC, over 100K Republicans voted for HRC in the TX primary, larger than the margin of her victory if I recall correctly.

Obama has attracted a HUGE number of independents to the polling booths state after state, in much larger numbers than Republicans. Trends of Indies and Republicans have changed somewhat since TX and OH mainly because of the non-stop smearing of Obama by the rightwing messing with the primary.

Obama did well in rural areas before TX and OH.

"And we have a NeuvoLiberal who is distributing videos to tarnish the only popular Democratic president we had in last 20-30 years. He is so good to drivel the same trash which Republicans love to live on."

Isn't this diary (and so many others here) peddle and in fact celebrate the anti-Oabma trash that the Republicans are "loving to live on"?

In turns out the WJC video above shows Bill Clinton in his very own words, lying in broad day light to the American public. With his reckless indiscretion, Bill Clinton already cost the Democratic party one presidential election (2000). It really isn't in party's interest to go through the same nonsense for another 9 years.

The videos of the two Clintons lying through their teeth placed side by side will almost certainly be a Republican 527 ad in the general election if HRC somehow pulls out a win in the nomination race. That risk Democratic party voters should realize and not take.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:49:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

old news NL (2.00 / 3)

70 million spent and Clinton left office on a high.
Get over it, Obama is weak he's a sure loser in November and trashing the Clintons makes you look like you missed the 90s in America.

Obama has a whole lot of new fun bagage for republicans to search.  He will not be our nominee.  ou can bank on it.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:59:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: old news NL (1.00 / 1)

(readers, please ignore typos below)

The clips above are what the Republicans will use to cast both of them as pathogenic liars. That was the intent behind posting them here.

Next, not all of Bill Clinton's sex scandals were actually vetted in the 90s (as you will recall, some of them were dropped in 99 since they had already accomplished what they wanted and people were fatigued towards both Republicans and Clinton: beat Clinton up enough to make the road hard enough for Gore but didn't knock Clinton out of office). And, are you sure Bill Clinton didn't have any affairs after he left office? Given that he's been caught messing around in the oval office (despite knowing fully well that the rightwing was looking under every stone to bury the Clintons and Gore) why should Demo voters trust that he hasn't done the same since leaving office? Why should such a risk be taken?

Then there are money/influence/pardon/fundraising scandals. You're well aware of Clinton's pardon scandals (IIRC, you had pointed it out a few times at DK). There are many questionable money scandals involves Clinton's fundraising and library activities. The Khazak Uranium deal. There is the active Peter Paul court case where WJC will probably be testifying. Here is a list of some of Clinton's money scandals.

Notice something? All of these scandals involve Clintons' own actions and not stupid guily by association attacks on Obama.

It pains me to see some several good folks from DK of yesteryears take such pleasure in peddling the attacks on Obama that are pure BS and not unlike the crap Gore was forced to suffer.

Critique him on what matters and the real flaws/mistakes of Obama (eg, he did vote for the 2005 energy bill and that was a bad vote) but bashing him with the flaws of others is just beyond pale.

It's that sort of negativity that the Clinton camp and many Clinton supporters have come to casually throw at Obama with reckless abandon, while tag teaming with the rightwing that has poisoned the Democratic party is weakening it dramatically (yes, HRC had some good GE polling, but that's the bounce from PA. It won't hold in the GE because of the Clintons' baggage and the reaction for the accumulated negativity they've heaped on Obama).

"Clinton left office on a high."

Well, he had high job approvals (no one said he didn't do a good enough job; he'd have done a better job had he not messed around with Monica and lost 2-3 years because of it) he polled 60% unfavorable as a person.

"Get over it, Obama is weak he's a sure loser in November and trashing the Clintons makes you look like you missed the 90s in America."

Obama will do very well once he comes from under the attacks of two camps at the same time: the rightwing and the Clinton camp. What he's going through is like what Gore faced: rightwing/RWNM/MSM/Nader/Nader noise machine bashing him... all at the same time.

In the GE, hopefully, the Clinton camp won't be there attacking him.

"Obama has a whole lot of new fun bagage for republicans to search.  He will not be our nominee.  ou can bank on it."

He's done a pretty good job of grace and strength under fire: despite all the nonsense for 6 weeks on wright, ayers, ABC News/Steph's disgraceful "debate", Obama managed to close the gap from 19% on 3/10 (SUSA) down to 9.3% on election day in PA. That's pretty strong performance under intense attacks from the rightwing and the Clintonwing.

Obama will be the nominee becase he's got the math squarely on his side. Even if he only gets 45% of the pledges delegates the rest of the way and 40% of the SDs, he'll secure the nomination.

The question is how merciless are the Clinton and Clinton supporters going to be towards him and how much damage they're going to do to a fellow Democrat.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hiding this republican garbage (2.00 / 2)

if you are going to do a replay of the house managers from the 90s, take it to LGF or Redstate.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:10:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This diary and 2/3s of the diaries (none / 0)

posted here by Clinton supporters are "Republican garbage" attacks on Obama.

Why is it OK to attack Obama (using nonsense guilt by association smears) and it's not OK to point out actual words and deeds of the Clintons? Let me assure you that the Clinton baggage HAS hurt the Dems in the 2000 presidential election.

Are you trying to tell the readers that the Republicans are nice enough not to bring these up in the general election (should HRC sneak out a nomination, which she almost certainly won't) if it's Clinton that gets nominated? Why would that be the case: why would they smear Obama if he's the nominee and spare the Clinton who do have tons of real baggage?

Do the Republicans have some kind of a secret love for Hillary and Bill Clintons

One of the primary focuses of many diarists at this site has been spreading smears on Obama (I have no doubt they've smeared him 100 times more than LGF and Redstate, thus far) or talking about the same. Well, then I say that we should be discussing Clintons' baggage in great depth as well.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The video (2.00 / 2)

I don't care for the video.  While it does show the contrasts in what Obama said then, and what he's saying now, I think the whole thing is ruined by the very last clip of a man in the street.  I'm not sure what that is all about.

Anyway, we can make our points without racial undertones.  For me, this isn't about race.  It's about who can win the election in November and who is going to be the best president and who best understands what has to be done, quickly, to fix this mess that Bush and Cheney made.


by joanneleon on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:24:49 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 1)

This video is a selling job for Clinton so it overstates the case a bit, the videos quite neat for a home produced effort, but it's raising issues the Obama fans just don't want to deal with. What the events of the past couple of months have shown is that Obama would go into this election with a major bloc, the major bloc, of traditional democratic voters in a soft condition. I don't think he can win this if McCain runs a half reasonable campaign and that's what's starting to create unease in the liberal chattering classes. Basically he can't win a single southern state, he can't win OH, and NJ and PA are going to be in play. If the hyper partisan Obama fans would get the blinders off for a minute, and consider for a moment this very plausible scenario then it has to cause a moment pause. But then they don't want to take the blinders off, it might confuse them.  


by ottovbvs on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:28:02 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (1.66 / 3)

This is what passes for diaries these days?  Stupid political cartoons and another re-hashing of Wright?  Seriously?  Say what you will about Kos, but at least there is some substance.

Do you realize how easy it would be to take the low road and whip up a stupid, pointless, hatchet job diary on Clinton scandals?

But you know what, these issues aren't dredged up again, and again, and again, and again because this is a DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.  How can you decry "Rovian tactics" with one hand, and with the other continually attack Obama using the exact same talking points?  Just because "they are going to do it" later, doesn't justify the attacks coming from your own party.

I am really beginning to question whether some of the readers on this site are actually Democrats?  Because from here it looks like you are purposely damaging the presumptive nominee.  Yes, Hillary has a chance.  But realistically you would have to agree that it is a 25% or less chance that she wins out (as per Intrade prediction markets, which have historically been 100% accurate regarding primaries and senate races).


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:10:25 AM EST

Re: Obama's Troubled Waters (2.00 / 1)

Intrade, eh? Hmm. Looks to me like Hillary is doing better than Obama these days. I'd rate O a sell and C a buy!

http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/tradi ng/t_index.jsp?selConID=177134


by Nobama on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:43:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]