Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progressive?

I think a discussion that we need to have about both canidiates is if they are truly "progressive" on social issues. Right now, I want to make the case that Barack Obama has proven that his rhetoric does not match up to his actions on GLBT treatment--let's take a look. His associates with bigots and homophobic people are very disconcerting to me as a LGBT person, and while we certainly aren't the most important lobby, I don't see why triangulating on GLBT issues are important to winning the Democratic primary, especally since Senator Clinton has done so and while she is trailing, I do't think gay issues have much to do with it. Let's take a look:

The original thing that began to concern me about Senator Obama's stance on GLBT issues was his association with noted anti-gay speaker and gay "healer", Rev. Donnie McLurkin. Let's take a look:

http://hillary.connexion.org/newsstory.c fm?id=12346&


This past weekend, the Illinois Democratic senator's presidential campaign announced a three-day, gospel music campaign tour through South Carolina it billed as "Embrace the Courage" featuring four singers - Reverend Donnie McClurkin, Mary Mary (a sister act duo), and Reverend Hezekiah Walker, all prominent in the gospel world. The tour was designed to mark the final days of Obama's "40 Days of Faith and Family" campaign in South Carolina, a critical early primary state.


Moreover, McClurkin is the poster boy for the African-American "ex-gay" movement. He claims that he became homosexual after having been molested by relatives when he was eight and 13, but was "cured" by religion.

"The gloves are off and if there's going to be a war, there's going to be a war. But it is a war with a purpose," he said on Pat Robertson's "700 Club," according to a 2004 post on John Arovosis' Americablog.com. "I'm not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children."

But it's not only McClurkin whose star presence on the Obama campaign tour is repulsive. Walker (left), another Grammy Award-winner who is the Pentecostal pastor of a Brooklyn mega-church, the Love Fellowship Tabernacle, has been described as "disturbingly and publicly anti-gay" by "hip-hop intellectual" Professor Mark Lamont Hill of Temple University. (Walker likes to call himself the "hip-hop pastor" for having recorded with Sean "Puff Daddy" Combs, a member of his church.)

And the Mary Mary sisters (right) compare gays to murderers and prostitutes. In an interview with Vibe magazine, one of the singers said, "They [Gays] have issues and need somebody to encourage them like everybody else - just like the murderer, just like the one full of pride, just like the prostitute."

So Senator Obama's original tour in South Carolina was headlined by a group of rabid homophobes, who's rhetoric against homosexuality is only matched by people on the far-right. Rev McLurkin's comments are especally disturbing, given the fact that he states that LGBT people want to "kill our children". Scary stuff, right? Are these type of associations permissible for someone who claims to be standing up for progressive values? What if a key vote came up during Obama's Presidency regarding homosexuality? While I can certainly understand pandering to a group, certainly Senator Clinton has not wildly pandered to conservatives by touting associations like the one above. Instead, she marches in a gay pride parade and embraces the gay vote. It just seems that throwing the gays under the bus was not nessesary for the conservative African-American vote that Obama was trying to get here--and to this date, the "progressive" Obama has refused to apologize for bring these homophobes on this tour.

Not convinced yet? Let's go on:

Obama and Newsom
Some may wonder why Gavin Newsom has been strongly supporting Hillary Clinton in what is one of Obama's strongest areas in California, the SF Bay area. In fact, he is one of the few public officials who have endorsed Hillary. Let's take a look why, and take another look into Obama's disturbing refusal to be associated publicly with someone who strongly supports gay marriage:

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/02/obama_is _on_the_down_low_with_the_lgbtq.php

With news outlets reporting that in 2004 Obama asked to not have his picture taken with San Francisco's Mayor Gavin Newsom, because of the Mayor's support of same sex marriage, we must ask ourselves this question about Obama, as Obama challenges us- can he change?

"I gave a fund-raiser, at his [Obama's] request at the Waterfront restaurant. And he said to me, he would really appreciate it if he didn't get his photo taken with my mayor. He said he would really not like to have his picture taken with Gavin." former Mayor Willie Brown told the San Francisco Chronicle.

Four years later and a denial from the Obama campaign, Newsom told Reuters, "One of the three Democrats you mentioned as presidential candidates, as God is my witness, will not be photographed with me, will not be in the same room with me, even though I've done fund-raisers for that particular person -- not once, but twice -- because of this issue."

Newsom's a staunch ally to our community. He has neither publicly veered away from photo-ops with us nor from our allies promoting marriage equality.

Mayor Newsom has used his pulpit as Mayor of SF to make a huge issue of legalizing gay marriage in his city and in California, and now Senator Obama refuses to take a picture with him; falling in pattern with his actions regarding McClurkin.

But this really takes the cake. Let's take a look at Barack's association with James Meeks:

http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/04/oba ma-and-james-meeks-homophobic-pastor.htm l

Chicago, IL -- Just as the dust surrounding Sen. Barack Obama's long-term association with controversial minister Rev. Jeremiah Wright has begun to settle comes new reports of the democratic presidential hopeful's connection to another racially divisive public figure--the stridently homophobic Rev. James T. Meeks, an Illinois state senator who also serves as the pastor of Chicago's 22,000 member strong Salem Baptist Church.

Described in a 2004 Chicago Sun Times article as someone Barack Obama regularly seeks out for "spiritual counsel", James Meeks, who will serve as an Obama delegate at the 2008 Democratic convention in Denver, is a long-time political ally to the democratic frontrunner.

A spring 2007 newsletter from the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) named Meeks one of the "10 leading black religious voices in the anti-gay movement". The newsletter cites him as both "a key member of Chicago's `Gatekeepers' network, an interracial group of evangelical ministers who strive to erase the division between church and state" and "a stalwart anti-gay activist... [who]... has used his House of Hope mega-church to launch petition drives for the Illinois Family Institute (IFI), a major state-level `family values' pressure group that lauded him last year for leading African Americans in `clearly understanding the threat of gay marriage.'"

The SPLC newsletter also noted that, "Meeks and the IFI are partnered with Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council and the Alliance Defense Fund, major anti-gay organizations of the Christian Right. They also are tightly allied with Americans for Truth, an Illinois group that said in a press release last year that `fighting AIDS without talking against homosexuality is like fighting lung cancer without talking against smoking.'"

Funny, I thought that endorsements and guidance from Focus on the Family backed pastors were only saved for GOP operatives, not someone who claims that he wants the gay vote and wants to represent a majority of GLBT Americans for the next 4 years. How, disgusting, I might say. It begs the question: if these are Obama's "spiritual mentors and key endorsers", then what does he truly believe on the issue of GLBT rights, and how does he feel on equality for LGBT on the national level? While Obama's record in the Senate has been OK on GLBT issues, it gives cause to believe that that may change when placed into the magnifying glass that is the Presidency.

GLBT people have something to be concerned about when Senator Obama claims that he will be "fighting for us", yet his political and spiritual connections mirror those of Sam Brownback, Bill Frist, and Rick Santorum. Obama has thrown the gays under the bus multiple times--and not once with an apology about his association with virulent homophobes, not once "Rejecting and denouncing" their gay-hating rhetoric or associations with Focus on the Family.

Let me ask you all this, in closing. If LGBT individuals are supposed to trust the Democrat running for President that he/she will represent their issues and be progressive on them, how can we look at Senator Obama's record with anti-gay speakers and not be deeply concerned over the next 4 years if he is the nominee, especally since he WON'T EVEN GRANT INTERVIEWS TO GLBT PUBLICATIONS? Obama vs. McCain? That's a scary thought, in my mind, for any GLBT person who cares about their representation on a national level.



Display:


Re: Obama's problem with LGBT (2.00 / 6)

Good luck with this.  I've given up on this issue - no one wants to hear it.  Sigh...


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:46:24 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT (none / 0)

What is wrong with Obama's record on gay and lesbian issues?  He is just as progressive if not moreso than Hillary Clinton.  Clinton will just sell out gay people like her husband did with DOMA and DADT.


by reggie44pride on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How quickly they forget. (2.00 / 4)

There seems to be such collective amnesia about the political climate of the 1990's.   The measures enacted by Clinton I were temporary stopgaps to prevent something worse from happening.  I lived in Washington during most of Clinton's administration.  I remember all too well what was brewing on Capitol Hill.  There was blood in the water re: gays, and Bubba did the best he could to prevent really bad things from happening.  Without DADT, we would have a wholesale ban on gays in the military, which would be worse than what we have now.  Without DOMA, we would have a constitutional amendment defining marriage, which would be worse than what we have now.

Hillary has said repeatedly that those measures were temporary, designed to forestall things even worse for us.

I remember these things.  Don't you?


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How quickly they forget. (none / 0)

Clinton won't fully repeal DOMA, Obama will.  Enough said.


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How quickly they forget. (2.00 / 3)

The thing I like about Hillary - she is a realist.  She will push for what's doable, rather than what's perfect, and amending DOMA is a realistic if imperfect goal, for now.  Pragmatism wins every time...


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:09:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How quickly they forget. (2.00 / 1)

I guess we just see this differently.


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:10:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How quickly they forget. (none / 0)

Major mojo for civility.  We will get through this somehow and all be shiny happy people together again, you know!


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:17:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How quickly they forget. (none / 0)

can I quote you on this next time a debate on Mandatory Healthcare for Adults pops up?

because I don't know how anyone thinks we are getting that through congress


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT (2.00 / 6)

Check out the front page of the Philadelphia Gay News (PGN). They have a striking front page article on the candidates that features two columns - one with Obama shown on top, with an empty column below his name and picture, revealing the interview he refused to give. The other column showing Hillary Clinton with a long interview given with no restrictions on questions, showing her fully accessible to the gay press.

Then read their editorial, "Letter to a candidate" on page 11 and continued on page 21, about how Obama has refused to give any interviews to the gay press since 2004. PGN reports that the only other candidate whio has refused to grant an interview to their publication was Rick Santorum. Obama keeps good company, huh?

http://epgn.p2ionline.com/Flip/Sitebase/ index.aspx?view=single&adgroupid=132 684&webstoryid=14038635


by 07rescue on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 0)

anyone know a way to see how Obama has voted on GLBT issues?

because I am curious how does someone become the MOST liberal senator without having liberal stances on this issue?


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:47:52 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 5)

Like I've said, at least for myself, before--I'm not too concerned with Obama being liberal--I think that would be great, but I'm much more concerned that he would be too conservative on issues like this. Obama's voting record is OK on GLBT issues once again, but I fear that may change given the national microscope of the Presidency and how he seems to have relied on the same type of people GWB relied on to garner very religious voters in this primary cycle.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:50:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 0)

Do you think Hillary is going to break from the DLC centrist view of this?

I will vote for either DEM, but they are pretty much in agreement on this issue.


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:53:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 5)

There's a difference from "breaking from the DLC centrist view" and associating with people like Obama has.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:56:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 2)

Do you have a problem with Hillary's association with the Denise Rich and her husband?

I will vote for either candidate, but trying to use "associations" is a losing argument for the Clinton family, and I am not a Clinton-hater . . . but I know when my $h*t stinks. I loved the Clinton presidency, and I knew they intended to go further than "don't ask don't tell" - which they should have.

Playing the association game with Obama will lose for HRC in MANY more battles than it will win with the small LBGT demographic. This isn't meant to be cold, but most gay friends I have spoken to are not excited to vote for McCain . . . they will vote DEM.

They are deeper thinkers than to loosely tie Obama or HRC to associates.


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:05:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

You don't understand.  The only way the change people's views is to confront those people who disagree with you.  That's what Senator Obama is doing by meeting with anti-gay leaders.  This gives him a chance to defend LGBT rights.  


by reggie44pride on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:23:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

as long as hillary doesn't have ANY associations with anti-gay groups or people right? I mean could you imagine if say Hillary was a member of some religious group say The Family or something, I mean what kind of other members would probably be in that group?

no no thats to scary to think about there is absolutely NO WAY Hillary would have ANY associations with ANY anti-gay groups or people I mean no way, but if she did its not like those associations would reflect on her right I mean guilt by association only applies to Obama.


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:55:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 5)

This isn't just "guilt by association"--Obama's campaign knew of the homophobia associated with both Meeks and McClurkin and has refused to apologized, also, your answer doesn't take care of anything regarding him actively snubbing Newsom.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 0)

dude I agree with you, Obama hasn't said anything but people he "associates" with have said things that he should be held "guilty" for as if he said or shared those beliefs himself.

but I mean this isn't guilt by association, this is he must harbor/believe those believes because of the people he associates with, TOTALLY different then guilt by association


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 4)

I really hope that Barack is good on GLBT issues, but I'm afraid that we won't have much done on them from either democratic nominee this time around.  Both are too afraid to fight for the rights of a minority group whose abusers span both parties.  It breaks my heart, but gay marriage and having the state amendments opposing it on the ballots played a big role in the dems losing the presidential race in 2004 because so many conservatives were activated by their adamant and ignorant opposition to it.  

This strong opposition to GLBT rights, I believe, will go the way of the dinosaurs once the older generation dies (Kudos to you grayer voters who recognize the injustice our current system pushes on the GLBT community, but most of your generation is pretty far off on the subject).

Conversely, the majority of younger folks (who overwhelmingly support Obama) either support GLBT rights or are at worst ambivalent towards them.  I know it's crappy to hear and is really unfair, but these issues won't likely be worked out for another ten or fifteen years when the opposition is all but gone.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

That being said, keep fighting and being an advocate.  Just cause the old people die doesn't mean that it will all happen by itself.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:14:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

"Noth are too afraid to fight for the rights of a minority group whose abusers span both parties."

I agree.  I doubt either candidate will make any controversial decisions in this area.


by reggie44pride on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:27:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

And can you blame them too much?  Homophobia in this country is ridiculous.  It sucks, but we're just not there yet.  I feel shitty even thinking stuff like this, but the last 8 years have forced me to put some of the more "controversial" issues that I care deeply about on the back-burner because I think it's so vitally important that we right our ship.

I certainly won't stop pushing for equal rights, but having a president who is truly an outspoken advocate from the top on this issue is a fantasy until these old-fashioned types depart.  My WWII vet grandfather, for instance, (a democrat through and through) is probably pretty uncomfortable about the whole thing despite the fact that he has pretty progressive views on a number of other issues.  It's a generational thing and we'll find an opening in the next few years.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 11:29:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

Did someone say Billy Graham?


by sacca28 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:59:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

These concern troll diaries are really meaningless at this point. With only 10 states left to vote, and not enough Queer voters in any of the remaining states to make a big difference, and Hillary's chances of winning he nomination slim, do you intend to vote for the nominee or not?


by lion king on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:41:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 3)

. . . and how does he earn the support of: http://gaycitynews.com/site/news.cfm?new sid=19249408&BRD=2729&PAG=461&am p;dept_i

Did I miss the memo? Did Hillary flip-flop on gay marriage??


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 3)

There are plenty of misinformed people on this because the issue has not been brought to light as much as other ones has, and not to the extent that I have. In any state where exit polling has been done for GLBT people, Hillary has won by 35-40 points. Remember, some GLBT people voted for George W. too.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:55:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

Given your utter lack of evidence, I think it's fair for you to give citations when you make those 35-40 percent claims.  You might be right about the numbers here, but anywhere on this diary that you are challenged with people citing Barack's posted and acknowledged views on this issue, you are silent and have nothing to say back other than "why isn't he more vocal?"

Rather than tearing him down, why don't you show where he and Hillary part on the issues.  Without that, you sound more like your grasping at straws, I'm afraid


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:23:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

OK, member of ACTUP here, I have decided I can not vote for Obama in good conscience. He has no openly gay people in his inner circle. Hillary does. She has a long history with us. Obama is surrounded by the black church, which is indistinguishable from the church of jesus christ aryan for our purposes.


by DaleA on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

I def understand your point about the black church, and that's the toughest part for me to reconcile.  I'd be shocked if either candidate ever brings up any GLBT issue from their position as president, though.  Last presidential election taught democrats to take a much more hands-off approach (reprehensible though it may be) with this stuff, and responsibility for fighting for equal rights seems to have fallen back to the grassroots level.

And to add one more thing that I see mentioned around here a lot, but think about the Supreme Court.  The likelihood that McCain will put someone on the court that will be at all amiable toward defending a minority group against a hostile majority is pretty slim.  Don't be a single issue voter, or to put it another way, don't be an all or nothing voter.  McCain will be pandering to the extreme right (and his voting record with Republicans in the senate makes him the 7th most conservative) and the case for equal rights will take another giant step backward under his watch.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 11:35:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's homophobic debate moment - AIDS testing (2.00 / 6)

he awkwardly insisted he'd been tested with his wife. Somebody said Sen. Biden and Sen. Obama had been tested.

Obama kept interrupting "I was tested with Michelle." He didn't want anybody to get the wrong idea.

Real mature!


by catfish1 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:57:06 PM EST

Re: Obama's homophobic debate moment - AIDS testin (2.00 / 6)

I remember watching that on YouTube--reminds me of some high school kid or frat boy trying to make sure that everyone knows that he's not gay.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What? (2.00 / 1)

How is a slight overeaction to AIDs testing homophobic?  Last time I checked, it wasn't a disease that affected just gays.  I know that I freaked out a little when I got tested - 5 days is a long time to think.


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your apple looks nothing like this orange. (2.00 / 2)

Did you freak out because you thought people were saying you went to get tested with another man and not your wife?

Well then your anecdote is nothing like what Barack did on national television.


by LatinoVoter on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your apple looks nothing like this orange. (none / 0)

Good thing I'm not running for president then.  


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:18:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's homophobic debate moment - (2.00 / 1)

I would probably admit that Hillary Clinton is a lot more comfortable with gay people than Obama is.  But, I think their records are similar and their governing would be similar too.


by reggie44pride on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:31:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 5)

Here's a list of the positions held by both of our candidates regarding GLBTQ issues: http://profbw.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/g lbtq-take-two-clinton-v-obama/

One of the more notable positions for me is the Defense of Marriage Act.  Obama supports a full repeal, while Clinton only wants to modify it.  

Look, both of our candidates are incredibly strong in this category.  To say that Obama isn't a progressive because of a singer at a rally and a few other guilt-by-association references is disingenuous at best.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:58:07 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

DOMA does it for me.  If he wants to repeal it, and CLinton dosen't, then the distinction is clear from a policy standpoint.


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 2)

Then why doesn't he reject and denounce? Like I said, my argument isn't necessarily with voting records, but what will he do if he's called to a hot-button vote on GLBT issues if he's President? Is he going to risk throwing all the conservative black leaders under the bus that got him there by voting to help gay people? The magnifying glass for the Presidency is much different than the Senate. Think about it for a moment--before these people started coming to his aid, conservative AA's were still very on the fence about Obama's candidacy. If these people say Obama betrayed them on GLBT issues he could lose support.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

because you know, how they vote is NO WAY reflects how they may carry out policy.

I mean its not like they voting records or public or anything and a Senator would know they can be held accountable for how they vote.

no sir voting records have almost NOTHING to do with how a candidate may feel about certain issues.


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

Um, I really don't like the way you're going with this argument.  Are you saying that Clinton can afford to alienate certain segments of the AA population while Obama can't?  Aren't you concerned about his stance on issues and not thier overall effect?

Just what is your point?


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:05:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 3)

My point is that I think it's fair to say that without the African-American vote, Obama wouldn't be where he is right now (it's not racist--it's the truth). One of the reasons why African-Americans started coming to him was that he pandered to African-American religious conservatives and got people like McClurkin and Meeks to come out singing his praises. These are people who make anti-gay things themes of their congregations and lives. Will Obama represent them as President, or us?


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 2)

wait wait he Pandered to the AA religious conservatives?

yeah you are going to have to cite an example here please, I thought he got the AA vote by playing the race card,

and yet you still are not worried about Hillary Clinton and her association with the The Family and the likes of Billy Graham?

oh yes i forget you are now doing the not-guilt-by-association-guilt-by-associ ation


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:12:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

He would, conceivably, represent all of us.  As would Clinton, even though she currently is not drawing much support from African Americans.  Are you concenred about weakness in Obama's GE viability, or LGBT issues?  If it's the former, then your concenred about a realive non-issue at this point.  If it's the latter, then you've got a slightly better cause for concern.


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

So they we could say that without the female vote Hillary wouldn't even be in the race? What a ridiculous argument.


by lion king on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:40:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

Well, if she was getting 90% of the female vote, as Obama is getting 90% of the AA vote, she would have had the nomination locked up.


by AnnC on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 10:05:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 3)

He's already on record saying that he would repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and Don't Ask Don't Tell, supports gay adoption, and wants to include sexual preference in employee discrimination legislation.  He also sponsored legislation in 2004 to include sexual orientation as a hate crime.  Doesn't that mean he's already thrown these conservative black leaders under the bus?  

This "reject and denounce" thing is crazy.  Judge politicians on their public stances on issues, not who they have had singing at a rally.  If every candidate had to answer for the beliefs of their supporters, they would be rejecting and denouncing 24/7.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So just because (2.00 / 3)

he's far better on actual policy for LGBTQs that's not enough?

Just breathtaking, considering you want the architect of DOMA, Bill Clinton, back in the White House. The same Bill Clinton that advised John Kerry back in 2004 to endorse anti-gay state referenda?

Obama is the most gay-friendly Presidential candidate in history. I'm surprised at that, given that some elements of his coalition aren't always supportive of equality.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:10:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 3)

Barack Obama on Gay Marriage: Barack Obama opposes same-sex marriage, but also opposes a constitutional ban on gay marriage. According to Obama's campaign fact sheet on LGBT issues, he supports full civil unions that give same-sex couples equal legal rights and privileges as married couples, including the right to assist their loved ones in times of emergency as well as equal health insurance, employment benefits, and property and adoption rights.

Barack Obama on Gay Adoption: Barack Obama believes in equal adoption rights for gay and lesbians.

Barack Obama on Gays in the Military: Obama believes we need to repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, stating that the key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve.

Barack Obama on Employment Non-Discrimination: Obama believes the Employment Non-Discrimination Act should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity. Obama sponsored legislation in the Illinois State Senate that would ban employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Barack Obama on Federal Hate Crime Legislation: Obama co-sponsored legislation to expand federal hate crimes law to include crimes perpetrated because of sexual orientation or gender identity.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:59:33 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 5)

It would be nice if his rhetoric matched his record.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 3)

and when you say record you don't mean voting record right? because that would be the WRONG record for us to look at wouldn't it?


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:04:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

What rhetoric?

You don't cite anything Obama has said that you disagree with, only people he's associated with.

That's there rhetoric, not his.  Although is seems some people have a problem with that concept.


by bawbie on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:06:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 2)

Ah, guilt by association, the Clintonite's favorite attack!

With all the questionable people the Clintons have been associated with over the year, you'd think y'all would be a little hesitant to cast the first stone on this, but I guess when you're desperate, you're desperate.


by bawbie on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:05:41 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

no no we already established this isn't guilt by association
 this is he must harbor/believe those believes because of the people he associates with, TOTALLY different then guilt by association
Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

Are the Clinton's guilty of associating with Denise Rich's husband?

I sure hope not . . . because I AM NOT voting for McCain!


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:11:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 5)

The fact that you people don't condemn Obama for his various actions including those towards a fellow Democrat-Mayor Newsom--really kind of makes me vomit. I guess we're only a progressive party when Senator Obama agrees that it's in our best interests. Funny thing is, this blog and Kos rake GOP'ers over the coals for associations and actions like the one above, since they fail to reject and denounce them, similar to Obama.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:11:30 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

once again can you name Obama's actions without naming the actions or saying of anyone else?

can you tell us what Obama has done? or do you need to first ASSOCIATE him with someone else to thus show his GUILT?

what part of this whole guilt by association that you are doing don't you see?

you are telling us that his actual voting record means nothing, its all about who he associates with WHILE at the same time completely ignoring what the Clinton's have done and who THEY associate with.


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:14:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

Newsome is very, very good on LGBT issues, but is still a smarmy jerk.  It's certainly possible that Obama didn't want a photograph with him for the above reason.


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:48:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

zcflint, so now you are defending the G.O.P???
I do believe you just outed yourself.
by lion king on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

There's a difference between defending the GOP and making an example of how we treat them (which is absoutley CORRECT) and how we don't condemn Obama for very similar situations.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 02:07:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If his continued association and (2.00 / 3)

embrace of gay haters even after the gay community has expressed how they feel about those associations and embraces doesn't tell you what you need to know, I don't know what will.

His church is supposedly very gay friendly yet he opposes gay marriage based on his faith. Does that make sense to anyone else? It surely doesn't to me.

This is another example of him saying and doing anything just to get elected.  


by LatinoVoter on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:13:22 PM EST

Re: If his continued association and (2.00 / 2)

hey the Clinton's had no way to know what Billy Graham thought of gays, and its not like she is still a member of The Family or anything.

err........ wait


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:15:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh, (1.16 / 6)

Like Clinton, Obama attended

Anything else?

Funny to hear you cultist bring up religion considering the hate church Obama belongs to.


by LatinoVoter on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, (none / 0)

so wait, you can attack Obama for this, but Clinton gets a pass right?

my whole point and maybe you would like to answer (though I doubt it, honesty from HRC supporters in this diary is lacking)

why is there no outrage for Hillary associating with the likes of Billy Graham, Rick Santorum, and Doug Coe

but Obama should be questioned on his progressive creds?

you want to answer or just ignore the question?

I am betting on ignore but please continue.


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, (2.00 / 1)

Congrats, that's a twofer.

You got "cultist" and "hate church" in the same sentence.  Do you get double points at hillaryis44.com for that talking points twofer?


by bawbie on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:28:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, (2.00 / 1)

"Cultist".  How original.  Why don't you tell us Obama supporters how you really feel?


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If his continued association and (2.00 / 1)

Since when as you state "the gay community has expressed how they feel" etc., speak for the entire gay community?? And your comments are another example how how you post comments wherever you can just to bash Obama regardless of the topic.


by lion king on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:29:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't speak for anyone by myself (2.00 / 2)

but the "hurt" that many in the gay community felt over McClurkin has been expressed to him and his campaign many times by many people.


by LatinoVoter on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:47:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't speak for anyone by myself (none / 0)

And latino, are you a member of the gay community?


by lion king on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:46:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If his continued association and (none / 0)

Since when as you state "the gay community has expressed how they feel" etc., speak for the entire gay community?? And your comments are another example how how you post comments wherever you can just to bash Obama regardless of the topic.


by lion king on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:29:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If his continued association and (none / 0)

Since when as you state "the gay community has expressed how they feel" etc., speak for the entire gay community?? And your comments are another example how how you post comments wherever you can just to bash Obama regardless of the topic.


by lion king on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If his continued association and (none / 0)

Clinton opposes gay marriage as well, the both agree to civil unions with all the entitlements of a marriage.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:53:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I just want to add (2.00 / 5)

My dear friend asked me to post her following comment here as she doesn't an account with myDD.

There are many situations that are very troubling surrounding Senator Obama.  And since we have no substantial political record on which to assess him, we must look at what his behavior has told us.

Has Barack Obama stood up for gay rights when it could have cost him something politically?  The answer is no.

Has the Illinois Senator stood by the gay community when others attacked it?  The answer is no.

Here is a brief overview of the Senator's failure to "walk the walk."

--Donnie McClurkin-- In 2007 gospel singer McClurkin was part of Obama's campaign.  McClurkin has said that he's "in a war against the curse of homosexuality." And that, "God delivered me from homosexuality."  In PR manipulation, Obama expressed disagreement with McClurkin's views but failed to disown him. John Araovsis wrote in AmericaBlog at the time, "This is new.  And it's terribly unnerving.  I mean, we're to believe that the fact that Obama, alone among Democratic candidates, is willing to openly welcome bigots into his campaign makes him the best candidate for voters concerned about civil rights.  And the corollary, the worst candiate for someone who cares about civil rights is the candidate who actually stands up against the bigots.  So the best way to promote tolerance is to tolerate and embrace intolerance?"  He called that logic "wacked."

---San Francsco Mayor Gavin Newsom-- Obama asked that his picture not be taken with Mayor Newsom.  According to Former Mayor Willie Brown, Obama conveyed to him that, "he would really appreciate it if he didn't get his photo taken with my Mayor.   He said he would really not like to have his picture taken with Gavin."  This was at a time when the issue of gay marriage was making headlines in California.  Subsequently, Mayor Gavin has endorsed Hillary Clinton for President.  Gavin stated that "his conversation with Hillary on civil rights for the LGBT community shared a 'depth' and 'understanding' that Obama does not share."  Senator Clinton has had her picture taken with Mayor Newsom, she has also appeared with him on camera numerous times.

--Reverend James Meeks-- Chicago-based Reverend Meeks is well-known for his virulent anti-gay remarks made both privately and from the pulpit.  He is a close friend, a political ally, and Obama has gone to him for spiritual counsel.  According to gaywire.com, "Meeks has reportedly blamed 'Hollywood jews for bringing us Brokeback Mountain' and actively campaigned to defeat SB3186, an Illinois LGBT nondiscrimination bill."  Obama has neither disowned Meeks, nor stated Meeks' continued anti-gay remarks are inappropriate.

--The "Blank Spot" on the page--  A gay newspaper in Pennsylvania recently ran an interview with Senator Clinton.  The newspaper left a large blank area in their paper symbolic of the place where Obama's interview would have run.... had he bothered to give them an interview.  This is just one instance of Obama's repeated pattern of denying interviews to LGBT newspapers and media outlets.

--Donald Young-- In 2007, the choir director of the Trinity United Church of Christ, Donald Young was found murdered.  The media services director of the church said in response to the murder, "Young did live an openly gay lifestyle; that was his choice."  This is of course Trinity Church, Obama's chosen church, home of the Reverend Wright.

--Donna Brazile-- It is clear that Donna Brazile's political commentary continually favors Senator Obama. That is why we include her statement in this discussion of Senator Obama's credibility in the gay community.  In an interview with Joshua Lynsen of the Washington Blade, DNC chair Howard Dean talked about gay delegates.  According to Lynsen, "He [Dean] acknowledged a proposal by gay DNC member Garry Shay of California to add gays to the party's affirmative action guidelines for selecting convention delegates triggered a contentious internal debate.  Dean said some influential individuals within the DNC Black Caucus such as Donna Brazile opposed the plan because it was seen as 'an affront to the civil rights movement.'"


by JoeySky18 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:17:46 PM EST

Re: Back of the Bus (2.00 / 2)

Speaking of busses -

When GLBTI people aren't thrown under the bus,
they had better damn settle for the back of the bus.  
How dare they ask to sit in the front of the bus when everybody knows
that Rosa Parks and the civil rights movement only applied to black people.

Yes, I am embittered.
And Brazile disgusts me.


by johnnygunn on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 3)

but you know I think you are right I don't think ANYONE who associates with anyone say Billy Graham is on the right side of the GLBT issue,

anyone wanna agree with me and sign a petition to call for anyone who may be in a religious group with say Rick Santorum to drop out because there is no way we can trust them on the GLBT issue

zcflint you will sign right? I mean you wouldn't trust someone who prays alongside Doug Coe (if you dont know who he is you should google him) would you?

I know I have your support on this, but who oh who could possibly be in the race that would support people like this and yet think we would ever believe they are on the right side of the GLBT issue?


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:19:14 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 4)

Obama's Open Letter tot the LGBT Community

I'm running for President to build an America that lives up to our founding promise of equality for all - a promise that extends to our gay brothers and sisters. It's wrong to have millions of Americans living as second-class citizens in this nation. And I ask for your support in this election so that together we can bring about real change for all LGBT Americans.
Equality is a moral imperative. That's why throughout my career, I have fought to eliminate discrimination against LGBT Americans. In Illinois, I co-sponsored a fully inclusive bill that prohibited discrimination on the basis of both sexual orientation and gender identity, extending protection to the workplace, housing, and places of public accommodation. In the U.S. Senate, I have co-sponsored bills that would equalize tax treatment for same-sex couples and provide benefits to domestic partners of federal employees. And as president, I will place the weight of my administration behind the enactment of the Matthew Shepard Act to outlaw hate crimes and a fully inclusive Employment Non-Discrimination Act to outlaw workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.
As your President, I will use the bully pulpit to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws. I personally believe that civil unions represent the best way to secure that equal treatment. But I also believe that the federal government should not stand in the way of states that want to decide on their own how best to pursue equality for gay and lesbian couples - whether that means a domestic partnership, a civil union, or a civil marriage. Unlike Senator Clinton, I support the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) - a position I have held since before arriving in the U.S. Senate. While some say we should repeal only part of the law, I believe we should get rid of that statute altogether. Federal law should not discriminate in any way against gay and lesbian couples, which is precisely what DOMA does. I have also called for us to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and I have worked to improve the Uniting American Families Act so we can afford same-sex couples the same rights and obligations as married couples in our immigration system.

We also need a president who's willing to confront the stigma - too often tied to homophobia - that continues to surround HIV/AIDS. I confronted this stigma directly in a speech to evangelicals at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church, and will continue to speak out as president. That is where I stand on the major issues of the day. But having the right positions on the issues is only half the battle. The other half is to win broad support for those positions. And winning broad support will require stepping outside our comfort zone. If we want to repeal DOMA, repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and implement fully inclusive laws outlawing hate crimes and discrimination in the workplace, we need to bring the message of LGBT equality to skeptical audiences as well as friendly ones - and that's what I've done throughout my career. I brought this message of inclusiveness to all of America in my keynote address at the 2004 Democratic convention. I talked about the need to fight homophobia when I announced my candidacy for President, and I have been talking about LGBT equality to a number of groups during this campaign - from local LGBT activists to rural farmers to parishioners at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, where Dr. Martin Luther King once preached.
Just as important, I have been listening to what all Americans have to say. I will never compromise on my commitment to equal rights for all LGBT Americans. But neither will I close my ears to the voices of those who still need to be convinced. That is the work we must do to move forward together. It is difficult. It is challenging. And it is necessary.
Americans are yearning for leadership that can empower us to reach for what we know is possible. I believe that we can achieve the goal of full equality for the millions of LGBT people in this country. To do that, we need leadership that can appeal to the best parts of the human spirit. Join with me, and I will provide that leadership. Together, we will achieve real equality for all Americans, gay and straight alike.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:21:58 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

These are HIS words, not some "associate's" words....


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:26:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Two way street (2.00 / 3)

Hillary associates with Elton John . . . right?

Does she agree with Sir Elton's views that religion creates `hateful lemmings' . . . I HOPE NOT!!

The guilt by association argument is an attack against intellect.


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:25:28 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 2)

What I love about our party..
Ya think Republicans ever have an argument on who is most supportive of these citizens?
"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:49:19 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT-- (2.00 / 2)

I'm reposting this comment that I just made in another blog questioning if Hillary was gay friendly enough:.....

Hillary has been front and foreward on this issue for years.  She brought it up on Ellen's show 2 days ago and she brings it up alot in the campaign.

There is no question in my mind that Hillary is far more dedicated to Gay causes than Obama who does not appear to be "dedicated".

Obama has never marched in a gay pride parade (hillary has), Obama traveled through South Carolina with Donnie Mcclurkin(?) a homophobe and anti-gay preacher, Obama would not meet for an interview with the Gay newspaper in Philadelphia (Hillary did).

Hillary has given interviews to Advocate and has been at the forefront of gay issues. After her interview on the LOGO channel last year, she went to The Abbey - a gay bar in West Hollywood to speak.

She is not afraid of this issue at all.

As she has stated, "it is personal to me" and that is because she has many good friends that are gay.  She also has alot of people in and on her campaign staff that are gay.

When exit polls were taken of how gays voted (CA and NY) - she had close to 70% of this vote.

Gays & Lesbians know her and know she will fight for their cause. She won't back down like her husband did.


by nikkid on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:52:53 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT-- (none / 0)

she had 60% in CA and 59% in NY


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:55:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT-- (none / 0)

But will she repeal DOMA?


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT-- (none / 0)

Yes. She stated on the LOGO channel interview that she wanted to repeal DOMA but that Dems could not do it while Bush was in office.


by nikkid on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:18:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (2.00 / 1)

Obama talks about gay rights In EVERY stump speech.....every one, no matter who he is speaking to......Do his rivals?.....He mentioned gay people in his famous 2004 speech at the democratic convention. In his speech to announce his candidacy he mentioned gay rights. His position on DOMA is better for gay people than HRC's. And forgive him for being a different kind of politician. He doesn't "demonize" people with whom he doesn't agree. I think that's a plus
As far as him not speaking to the gay press, you are wrong. He has. he didn't speak with the Philadelphia Gay News yet. I don't blame him. That paper is known as a shill for Clinton and it's owner is a Clinton donor.
This is one GAY man whom will rest easy with Obama in the whithouse
Thrown under the bus? Do you remember Don't ask don't tell and DOMA? Bill Clinton threw the gay community under the bus once he got from us what he wanted, our votes. Shameful that he wasn't willing to spend any political capital in advancing our causes.
"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:53:12 PM EST

Guilt... (none / 0)

As long as we're on the topic, how much longer until Clinton fires the pro-NAFTA, union busting Mark Penn?  Those stances are non too popular in PA...


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:54:15 PM EST

Re: Guilt... (none / 0)

Yeah, two of her closest advisors (Bill & Penn) support the Columbian Free Trade Agreement.  Go figure


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:56:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guilt... (none / 0)

Hmmm, makes me think she's not going to be as solid on trade as her supporters might expect.


by NewOaklandDem on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:59:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT (2.00 / 2)

Hillary walks the talk...literally.

Would Obama risk the potential backlash by marching in a gay pride parade like Hillary has?


by mjc888 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:15:32 PM EST

the last time we went too far on LGBT issues (none / 0)

helped to lose us Congress. Clinton jumped the gun on that. He should have waited until more than a week after his inauguration. I also think the country wasn't ready then. Today, we have an excuse, the war in Iraq, but he should not go out and push gay marriage. Homosexuality is not an issue you will win middle America over with. We need to get reelected. George Bush did because of gay marriage. Had kerry neutralized that like Bill Clinton told him to do by endorsing the state bans, he would have won 2004.  


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:57:01 PM EST

Re: Obama's problem with LGBT--Is he a real progre (none / 0)

Who cares about LGBTSLENTDCR issues?

Get over it.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 05:06:47 AM EST


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