Penn Steps Down

Music to my ears.

Mark Penn, the pollster and senior strategist for Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential bid, left the campaign Sunday after it was disclosed he met with representatives of the Colombian government to help promote a free trade agreement Clinton opposes.

"After the events of the last few days, Mark Penn has asked to give up his role as chief strategist of the Clinton Campaign," campaign manager Maggie Williams said in a statement released Sunday. "Mark, and Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates, Inc. will continue to provide polling and advice to the campaign."

Communications director Howard Wolfson and pollster Geoff Garin will craft strategy for the campaign going forward, Williams said. [...]

"Senator Clinton was disappointed that meetings with Colombians had occurred. She is a strong opponent of the trade deal," said a Clinton campaign officials speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not given authority to speak publicly. "Over the course of the weekend he recognized he needed to step aside as chief strategist."

Update [2008-4-6 19:47:47 by Todd Beeton]:It should be noted that Penn will still be doing work for the campaign, so perhaps this is just cosmetic, but anything at this point to put distance between him and the campaign is welcome, although months too late in my opinion.



Display:


Praise God (none / 0)

He gave Clinton the chance to lose him without the NYT crowing that her campaign is imploding.


by blobert on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:23:37 PM EST

One step down, but not quite out (2.00 / 1)

Per the New York Times, ..
"His polling firm, Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates, will continue to provide polling and advice to the campaign, the statement said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/us/pol itics/06cnd-penn.html?hp

and, ..

"After the events of the last few days, Mark Penn has asked to give up his role as Chief Strategist of the Clinton Campaign; Mark, and Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates, Inc. will continue to provide polling and advice to the campaign. Geoff Garin and Howard Wolfson will coordinate the campaign's strategic message team going forward."


by adilla on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:23:45 PM EST

It sounds like Penn is still there (2.00 / 0)

but just has a "new title".

He needs to go PERIOD!


by puma on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:26:11 PM EST

He's probably out cold (none / 0)

She said Patti Solis Doyle was going to be an advisor, when
she resigned.

You fire gently when you don't want a disgruntled
employee taking revenge by running to the press with
a lot of crap.


by blobert on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:38:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's probably out cold (none / 0)

Well, he'll probably keep his mouth shut until he gets paid, at least.  Then all bets are likely off.  The thing that bugs me about the whole Colombian caper was this little reported event from the WSJ, as recently as Friday after the Penn meeting, President Uribe of Colombia piled on to Senator Obama on his foreign policy credentials, sound familiar?:


In an interview with the Journal's Jose de Cordoba published Friday, Uribe said opposition to the trade agreement would deal a serious blow to U.S. relations with Colombia, one of Washington's strongest allies in South America where anti-American attitudes have been resurging in recent years. "I deplore that Sen. Obama, apparently because he wants to be president of the U.S., ignores all that Colombia has achieved," he said.

Labor unions have fought hard against the trade deal, arguing that the Bogota hasn't done enough to quell violence against trade union organizers. Uribe said that the country had made progress, and that the number of assassinated union members and teachers had fallen to 26 last year from 205 in 2001.

Nick Timiraos - Obama Refutes Colombian President WSJ 4 Apr 08

That's one heckuva' conincidence, don't you think?  And if the WSJ hadn't sprung Penn for his Monday meeting the Hillary campaign could have used that as another example of a foreign leader's lack of confidence in Obama's 'commander-in-chief threshold.'  I wonder what really happened, Bill and Uribe, not to mention Giula, are all buddies of sorts.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Got me curious... (1.00 / 0)

Did you make the same demand of the economic adviser working for BHO at the time who did go to a foreign country to discuss BHO's economic policy behind closed doors and making sure there was no recording?

Just asking...


by zerosumgame on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:23:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Geeze, Zerosumgame (1.00 / 2)

You've given out 4 zero ratings and a bunch of ones in your last 30 ratings. And that's just since 3:30 PM today!

A little heavy on the zero bombs, aren't you?
Do that many people really deserve to die?


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geeze, Zerosumgame (none / 0)

so I ask a hard question and folks try to hide it instead of having the guts to answer it. And that makes me a 'bad person'?


by zerosumgame on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 11:38:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (2.00 / 3)

If she had fired him a year ago, she might be the nominee today.

I can only imagine how happy Ickes and Wolfson are not to have to cover for this moron on conference calls anymore...


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:27:10 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (2.00 / 1)

I have to agree with you, and I support Obama.

Does she think that the unions are going to buy his change in title? I think the whole Penn firm needs to go away from DEM camapigns!!


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:28:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's jsut giving the press more of a story (2.00 / 0)

I'm also an Obama supporter but thought that this man was the reason why she was not winning. His damn microtrends strategy is such a crock.

Now the media has several things to discuss this week:

-Hillary fibbing story about dead woman.
-Hillary lying about being against Iraq before being for it.
-Hillary's strategist resigns...sort of.
-Why  hasn't Hillary severed ALL ties to strategist.

I just don't see how this helps her.


by regina1983 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

she didn't fib story about the dead woman (2.00 / 2)

she was fibbed to.

Sounds like you've been reading Daily Kos make drama out of nothing.


by blobert on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But the Vaunted Masters of Vetting (2.00 / 0)

didn't vet the story.

Inept.


by Bee on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:45:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: she didn't fib story about the dead woman (2.00 / 0)

If you're going to tell stories in your stump speeches, you better be pretty confident that they're true.

I don't think she was lying, I just think she didn't mind being a bit irresponsible with her fact-checking.  Still, it doesn't help the image of someone who's perceived as playing fast-and-loose with the truth.


by ChrisKaty on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:46:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama take note. Helen Thomas says (none / 0)

"Obama stresses he was against the invasion of Iraq, but he doesn't say he was not in the Senate when it was initiated. Since become a senator, he has twice voted to fund the war."


by blobert on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama take note. Helen Thomas says (none / 0)

He voted yea...in order to support the troops....Had he voted no you would be saying he is unpatriotic for not supplying our troops with proper equipment to defend themselves.


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:19:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama take note. Helen Thomas says (none / 0)

Helen Thomas is mistaken about that.  He says it in nearly every single speech and he has certainly said it in the debates.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:49:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: she didn't fib story about the dead woman (none / 0)

Sure it's a small fib, however the stupitity of passing along a fib to the American public is just plain not presidental.  After all she is running to be POTUS.  We have already had 7 1/2 years of an administration that did, and does not know shit from Shinola.  I know she has a good heart and means well but damn, what a terrible campaign she is running.      


by Tunk on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:00:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: she didn't fib story about the dead woman (none / 0)

I'm an Obama supporter, but I agree with you on this. Candidates use stories that people tell them on the campaign trail all the time...they have no way of knowing whether all the facts are true most of the time. Maybe they should have checked this out more carefully since they heard it second-hand, but I think it's likely that something was lost in translation here, not that it was a deliberate lie.


by democrattotheend on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:41:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: she didn't fib story about the dead woman (none / 0)

I tend to agree.  I see it as more of a blunder that an outright lie.  In and of itself, I don't think it's a big deal.  The timing however, is a problem, as it hints at a pattern of inconsistencies.  If the MSM really runs this stuff into the ground this week, it may sway even more PA voters Obama's way.

Could be a bad week for HRC.  Time will tell.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:38:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: she didn't fib story about the dead woman (none / 0)

She didn't fabulate it herself, but it was a central part of her warm-voiced part of the stump speech, tears micrometers away from welling up and it was completely wrong on the relevant facts.
I'm an Obama fan, but I was moved by this story and angry about the fact that these AH's at the hospital had denied a pregnant woman treatment.
I happen to think babies are a gift and not a punishment. And now we find out it is a sad story, about a very sick pregnant woman with coverage and a hospital that fought as hard as they could to save their lives.

Left me feeling being played like a fiddle.

Probably Penn didn't have time to check this story with all his work for other clients.


by hebi on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 05:19:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: she didn't fib story about the dead woman (none / 0)

maybe the first time it she was repeating a lie she heard.

she was informed that the story was untrue, and she repeated it even after that.

hillary's believability is becoming more and more suspect


"Action comes easy; it's the moments just before that are hard." ~Defiance, Ohio~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65I0HNvTD H4
by ScienceTeacher118 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

If it weren't for Penn, I'd have been in her camp all along, or at least after Edwards suspended his campaign.

Now, it's too late.


The bad news is that my Representative and two Senators are in the minority. The good news is that my Representative and two Senators are in the minority.
by CLLGADEM on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

4 Months too late to save Hillary's Campaign (none / 0)

As a pollster Penn had a political tin ear. Penn had a habbit of saying inflamatory negative things about Obama, that helped people see Clinton's campaign as a negative one.


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:55:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (1.00 / 0)

In honor of his departure, please donate here:



         


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:28:09 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (2.00 / 0)

. . . and HERE -

http://store.barackobama.com/


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has money coming (none / 0)

out of his ears.  Give him more more more.


by blobert on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Another $100 for Obama (2.00 / 0)

Thanks!


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:59:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another $100 for Obama (2.00 / 0)

What?!?  You can afford more than $96?  Elitist scum!  ;)


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:40:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Is this the ice cream man?


by Redstar on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:43:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Yep.  You can hear "Hail to the Chief" playing when it rolls into your neighborhood.  :)


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:42:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (2.00 / 1)

Hey Texas Darlin! I just gave my first $50 to Clinton. Until now I've been all talk and no walk in my Clinton advocacy -- in my defense I gave a lot to the Edwards campaign and was heartbroken when he left the race. I know I'm probably just setting myself up for more heartbreak, but I do believe in rewarding good behavior.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:48:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (2.00 / 1)

go inky!


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (2.00 / 0)

I'd be afraid that if I gave Hillary $100, at least $10 of it would end up in Penn's pocket.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:09:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (2.00 / 0)

As of March 31, she still owed Penn $2.5 million:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/3 1/politics/politico/main3981095.shtml
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:30:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Somebody is going to be getting some 3am calls (2.00 / 0)

Since she owes him that much money. Bill collectors can be very harassing at all hours.


by regina1983 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

I didn't mean for my comment to be snarky or sarcastic. I really wouldn't want to donate my limited dollars to a candidate I believed in, only to have a portion of it going to a despicable person like Penn.

I'd much rather see the campaign money go to all the small business vendors in Iowa, New Hampshire, Ohio, etc. that provided services to the campaign but still haven't been paid.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:43:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kubuki theater, if you ask me (none / 0)

Damage control -- Penn does the "right thing" by stepping down, and hopefully that's how it can be spun.  The reality is that Penn's still there under a different title and taking the same paycheck as before.  Ugh.  


by PeterB on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:30:02 PM EST

Re: Kubuki theater, if you ask me (none / 0)

Jabba the Pen:  Hillary, mah bukee, keel-ee caleya ku kah. Wanta dah moole-rah? Wonkee chee sa crispa con Greedo?

Translation:Hillary, my girl, you disappoint me. Why haven't you paid me? And why did you fry poor Greedo?


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:50:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Penn is still (none / 0)

Advising the campaign though.  He needs to go. Mark Penn eats too many cheeseburgers and is full of fail.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:34:34 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

More very bad news for Hillary.

Its not like they need more strategic help here. I bet someone can write a perfectly fine concession speech.


by optimist on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:38:04 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

More chaos in her campaign...may not play so well in PA or with the Supers.
So who do ya think for replacement?
"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:38:04 PM EST

It's in the statement (none / 0)

Communications director Howard Wolfson and pollster Geoff Garin will craft strategy for the campaign going forward


by Bee on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:42:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's in the statement (none / 0)

pollster Geoff Garin

This caught my eye.  Maybe Obama is no different but it seems odd that her strategy is being guided that much by pollsters.


But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.
by thezzyzx on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's in the statement (none / 0)

You need to go and read some filings. Obama has spent more on pollsters than... there is no comparison, and alot of it was early message focus group testing.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:59:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's in the statement (none / 0)

Oh I expect her to be hiring pollsters.  Duh.  It just seemed odd to me (and again this could be common practice at which point I'll say "OK") that she twice now has had her strategy created by pollsters.  My main problem with Bill is that he seemed overly poll driven so it caught my eye.


But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.
by thezzyzx on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's in the statement (none / 0)

That's great. Not sure how Howard "Deflection" Wolfson can craft strategy that will shift the direction of this campaign.

It should never have been about "experience", but that is the lasting legacy of Penn that doomed Clinton's hope to become the nominee.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's in the statement (none / 0)

Wow.  Wolfson is brilliant as well.  He's the clown who came up with the "xerox" line, the narative that how Obama was imitating Ken Starr, and the declamation that Obama was taking pages "right out of Rove's playbook."  

What she needs to do is fire everybody within 10 yards of herself and start over.  The supporters at the lower levels seem engaged.  The people at the top seem like complete bags of compost.


by zadura on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:48:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's in the statement (none / 0)

Do you have a source for the Wolfson comments or are you just throwing it out there?


by cubstr on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's in the statement (none / 0)

Folks, use the intertubes.  The answer is on the intertubes...

Here's an article on the "xerox" line:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/020 8/8570.html

Here's on Ken Starr and Karl Rove playbook:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 308/Clinton_aide_compares_Obama_to_Ken_S tarr.html

I am sorry to say that she's surrounded herself with the absolute worst group of clowns imaginable.


by zadura on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:04:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (2.00 / 1)

It's funny that this did it, rather than the fact that he's a complete moron.


by rfahey22 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:39:41 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Yay!

Maybe now she can start running the campaign she should have been running from the beginning.

Wolfson's OK, she needs to bring in younger, more sensitive more internet-savvy and 2008 news media-savvy talent.

It's not like she's notpaying top dollar...The Clintons have always been loyal to a fault, and in this case it really cost them big-time.


by dembluestates on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:45:58 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

What amazes me is it took Rendell's call for Penn to be fired today to get him out, after months of his ties to the McCain campaign, to Blackwater, and to Colombia.  What was going through their heads to cause this to take this long?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2008/04/clinton-chief-s.html


by mady on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:50:13 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

The McCain tie-in is always what bothered me most. I have always wondered if Penn (not at Hillary's behest) moved things in such a way that it appeared Hillary was doing McCain's work for him... there were many times she said things (or McCain said things) that seemed like they could have been pushed by Penn's group and the conflict of interest always struck me as unethical at best (and I wonder if there was anything illegal about it as well...if not there should be.)


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:39:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

I'm sure not illegal, it just seems that common sense would dictate that kind of arrangement would be not in one's best interest.  It would make me really paranoid that my top advisor had any connection whatsoever with my opponent's campaign.  I don't know what argument you can use with yourself to get beyond that, but obviously she did convince herself that he was a benign or positive force.


by mady on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:55:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Sadly she also convinced herself that the vote for Iraq was a good idea- without reading a vital report that was read by twenty six other Senators.

The unions all objected to Penn the minute she announced her staff for the campaign.  She ignored them.

We don't need another president who "convinces themselves".

For the love of God, don't do this!


by URKnot on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:08:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (2.00 / 1)

Great news.


by Korha on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:50:23 PM EST

As I saw mentioned elsewhere... (2.00 / 1)

This could be the Penn-ultimate resignation of the Hillary campaign.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:52:10 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Shaun, a punster; who knew? :):)

I think she fires very considerately and likes everyone to save face. did the same thing with Patti Solis Doyle.l


by linfar on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:55:02 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Personally, I would have wanted to grind this guy's face into the ground.  He really betrayed the entire campaign.  


by mady on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

10.8 million dollars later (none / 0)

and minus 170 delegates later, light finally dawns, sort of.  And we're supposed to trust Hillary with the most powerful office in the world?


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:56:35 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Geoff Garin is terrific, glad to see he's in the center now.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:58:23 PM EST

6 Months Late!!!! (none / 0)

let's wish him the worst


Let the change begin!!!!!
by demwords on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:07:47 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

I thought they may have ousted Penn when they brought Garin on March.  Garin has a lot of credibility...The damage may be too much now.


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:27:10 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

That this hits today - right after Pennsylvania Governor and Clinton surrogate Ed Rendell criticized Penn this morning on NBC's Meet The Press - indicates that it really was a sudden move by Penn himself. He knows it's over. Why stick around to receive the blame as the ship goes down?


McCain: The Past, Obama: The Future
by KathyM on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:27:44 PM EST

Take a breath (none / 0)

Okay, Mark Penn has done some truly dumb things in this campaign and he has said some really regretable things.  

But.

If Hilary runs this campaign against anyone else, but Barack and his boots on the ground strategy, she wins.  Further, the NH firewall held because of Penn's microtrend focus on the women of southern NH.  If Hilary loses NH, she isn't even here.  With the way the momentum swung to Obama after SC, his delay until Ohio/Texas also kept her in.

I think that the loss of Iowa and Obama's survival on Super Tuesday upset the initial battle plan.  When Obama survived Super Tuesday (and drained her in CA), she had no bullets left.  The fact that most of the press consider her still in it owes something to Penn and his microtrends.

If anything Obama is winning because Penn and Hilary's initial strategy was to dry up the money.  When Obama made it rain, his flood overwhelmed the microtrend.

Four years ago, Penn is a Karl Rove boy genius.

(Last, it seems that, like her husband, Hilary needs a strong Chief of Staff)

B

(Obama supporter)


by profbarr on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:44:53 PM EST

Re: Take a breath (none / 0)

i'll tell you where I think you might be wrong.

all Penn needed to do was put a ground game in caucus states and the two candidates are tied with Hillary having a favorable schedule to finish off this primary or Obama is already back in Washington crafting policy with fellow lawmakers.

I was an Edwards supporter who saw little to no chance for Clinton losing the election prior to Feb 5th and Obama's absolute thrashing of Hillary in caucus states such as Colorado, Kansas, n. dakota, minnesota and georgia made me a believer.

I to this day believe that N.H. has had very little effect on the final results.

Penn is and was and is a disaster. Hopefully his chances to ever lead another democratic campaign are over with.


!
by alex100 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:18:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a breath (none / 0)

I think I can agree with some of this.  Definitely, noone in HRC campaign reacted to the thrashing she took in the Caucus states.  True dat.

But, I don't think she is still fighting if she loses NH after IA.  I think donors flee.  

I am waiting for the post-mortem books to see how much of a disaster he was.  I bet his comes out first.


by profbarr on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a breath (none / 0)

You clearly minimize Mark Penn's reputation even before he became Hillary Clinton's strategist.

He is affiliated with Human Rights violations all over the world, and the unions told her at the get go that this was a deplorable choice.  She ignored them.


by URKnot on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:00:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take a breath (none / 0)

Dumb?

How about major human rights violations?  How about taking money to cover up crimes to humanity and deliberately manipulate social groups to insure that public scrutiny never trains itself on evil?

I think its a bit more than merely "dumb".


by URKnot on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But how (none / 0)

will Hillary trend the micros?


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:47:43 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

i guess it's not that huge of a surprise seeing what went down with Columbia and also the fact that the Hillary campaign wasn't being the nasty organization it had been since after the 2nd to last debate.

but this is for the best, even if he isn't completely out of the picture. I'm feeling my frustration for Hillary simmer down a notch.

too bad these pages hadn't called for his resignation months ago.


!
by alex100 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:58:45 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

"left the campaign Sunday"
of course he didn't.
He will still be doing the polling and giving recommendations based upon that.
Instead of her message, this week she will be 'splaning
A)Penn
B)She criticized Bush's War before Obama
C)She misspoke about pregnant woman/health care in stump speeches..
It will be an interesting week in PA.
(and Obama doesn't have to address anything but her boldness in revisionist history in being first to criticize she objected to Bush's War.)

"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:06:25 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Well, no need for 'splaning...she's taking action.

1)  Penn- he's gone.  Harold Ickes and Bill will be marganizling his role in the campaign so by the end of the week, he's really done.

  1.  Hillary was complaining about the progress of the war before Obama AND Obama voted on every war funding bill, same as Hillary.  He doesn't seem to explain himself on that, but then again, no one seems to ask.
  2.  The story about the uninsured dead woman is still an open story...I saw the interview on CNN when the deputy sheriff talked about this woman and what happened to her.  The hospital is complaining that the events didn't happen the say Hillary said, BUT they have yet to put out supporting documents.  The woman's family nor the sheriff (who is real because you can see him on CNN) have get to answer if the story was real.  I think the hospital was covering their asses.  Hillary hasn't told the story again, but it does point out the problem with good health care in this country.

All in all, Hillary has handled everything very well.

And her speech in Missoula, Montana was a real hit!!!  I watched in on CNN today during "Ballot Bowl '08"


by stefystef on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:24:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

I am not sure that HRC escapes unscathed from the hospital/opposed the war issues.  It seems that Obama and the Media have put the Serial exaggerator frame on her and it has stuck.  The media was very fast to hop on the "I opposed the war" sooner than he did story.  They seem to have Gored her.

Were I a HRC supporter, I would hope nothing else comes out of the tax forms.  

I bet losing Penn keeps supporters and superdelegates for a few more weeks.

B

ObamaSupporter

'


by profbarr on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:38:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

From the moment this story came out, I said Penn needs to leave.  He resigned his position, which is good.  But I wish he would really distance himself from the campaign.

But at this point, it's about ego for Penn because he thought he had this all under control.

I'm glad Hillary was able to tell Penn it's time to go and let him step down by himself, like that foreign policy woman stepped down after her "monster" comments.  

I love the fast that Hillary took control and is cutting off the excessive baggage.  She needs to run lean and fast now.

Hillary '08!


by stefystef on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:16:25 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

>>I love the fact that Hillary took control and is cutting off the excessive baggage....

Really? Like HRC wasn't aware of Penn's client until now? She had no idea what he was doing jetting off to Columbia for a day or two in the middle of her campaign? Is  lobbying for a position against the stated position of the campaign ok, but not meeting with one's client about such lobbying?

I really would like to see a clear answer to this one. I think the overwhleming dislike of Penn is blinding everyone to the fact that they had to know what he was up too. I'm not really sure which is worse - that they knew and overlooked it until he got caught, or they were so inept that they didn't.


by tysonpublic on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:57:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Well said.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 02:00:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Does this mean she will have to pay-up to his firm?


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:25:11 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Sure, Penn was a disaster for Clinton but I don't think he made a difference.  Outside of a few, very few, insiders is there really anyone who voted for or against Hillary because of Mark Penn?  There are only two people who have really mattered in the Clinton Campaign, Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton.  The "chief strategists" like Penn like to think they are very important and that the candidates are just clay in thier hands.  Baloney.  The last time one of these insider bigwigs was really important was Mike Deaver with Reagan and maybe Atwater with old Bush.  Carville's importance was overrated.  I think even Rove is much less important that his reputation.  Schrum was bad, but he didn't lose it for Kerry.  They are mostly legends in thier own minds.


by howardpark on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:33:19 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Well, I'm one of them.  And an awful lot of folks who did vote for her in Massachusetts have been saying how glad they are that they found out more about this before the election.  They have expressed disgust with her for the tactics and strategies that Penn has engaged in, and disgust with her for making such a poor choice.

Why don't you visit up here and ask around if you don't believe this.

And the fall out to those who try to overturn an Obama victory will be felt for decades among many voters.  Her making this as contentious as the Bush election is going over like a lead balloon.

She is absolutely ruining any goodwill she has, and I live in feminist central Massachusetts.


by URKnot on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

From that I saw in the latest polls outta Massachusetts, Hillary was much stronger against McCain than Obama.

I don't know what "goodwill" you are talking about, but it seems to me that the People of Massachusetts still feel that Hillary is the better candidate for the presidency that Obama or McCain.

The people of Mass are right.


by stefystef on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:32:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

well, i voted for Edward's policies but I would have voted against her just based on him being her chief advisor if I knew then what I know now.

I would go as far as to say that I really liked Clinton until Penn took a hold of her campaign in a midst of a feel good primary and made it the thing of Republicans. To say that I wasn't terribly crushed when Edwards dropped out was a testament to how good I felt about either Clinton or Obama as our nominee.


!
by alex100 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:04:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Maybe not voters, but Penn sure as hell didn't help HRC with SEIU and Change to Win.


by hebi on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 05:49:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Talk about (none / 0)

rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Isn't this the part where the band starts playing "Nearer My God to Thee"?


by rayspace on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:40:28 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

How many women..just getting by..ponied up $25 or $50 to Clinton..who gave it to Penn.
How many of these women were union or married to union men..Unions that Penn's firm boasted they could take care of.
http://ezraklein.typepad.com/Bursoncache .jpg
The hypocrites posting here never said a mumbling word. But hey..look at those shiny things..
In Diaries there is an attack on Donna B.
Clinton cannot run a Primary campaign. Do you believe SuperDelgates will trust her in the GE?
"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud"...Arlo Guthrie
by nogo war on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:43:52 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Polls in PA have been closing (tonight's ARG poll has a tie http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/pre s08/padem8-704.html) and team Clinton had to make some sort of change.

However, there will be a few days of stories about upheaval in the campaign, including some fueled by leaks about Penn and how this came to pass.  So it interferes with any new message team Clinton wants to deliver.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:53:20 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

Actually, it may help the public be more aware of Mark Penn's role an a world-wide grocery list of unsavory PR campaigns designed to "enact public Policy".

His tactics include just what we've seen in this campaign.

Obama is not running on lobby money, and he hasn't parsed his tax returns.

Unions begged Clinton not to involve Mark Penn in this campaign.  He works for McCain, too.


by URKnot on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:04:40 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

I watched Hillary's speeches this weekend and she looked more happy and in control than ever (she always looks in control).

She got rid of Penn and SHE'S HAPPY!

She probably wanted to get rid of him a long time ago, but you have to do these things carefully.  But now, HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!


by stefystef on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:43:09 PM EST

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

as an Obama supporter I'm happy to hear this. I've seen her speak up close and personal and I truly enjoyed the experience. She never should have agreed to engage in the type of campaign Penn pushed her into.

while she deserves some blame, I'm glad that you see her spirits up. Unfortunately to me, she's a damaged politician. After her splendid final answer in the Texas debate, I've had a hard time not reacting negatively to the Clinton name.


!
by alex100 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:13:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

I have to disagree with calling her a "damaged politician".  I have watched her for the last year and Hillary has really opened up as a politician and a person.

She is a smart, funny, in-the-trenches type of woman, not a "fuckin' whore" as some have labeled her.  It's one thing to TALK about change, it's another thing to be able to up against those who have made billions of dollars off the Bush Administration to stop them from sucking the country dry.

Hillary has the experience and capability to make those changes that other pontificate about.

P.S.  I never seen a country more into money and so jealous of people with money in my life!  Bill left the White House with millions of dollars in debt.  He went out there, supported his family and paid his bills.  He gave 10% of his money (tithed) and paid more than his share of taxes.  You know, when you spend so much type hating someone, you end up destroying yourself.


by stefystef on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:48:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

to "me" she is a damaged politician. Whether you think there's any truth to my opinion is besides the point.


!
by alex100 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 11:33:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn Steps Down (none / 0)

I love that he's still part of the campaign.

Clinton supporters can rest easy knowing that their hard-earned campaign contributions will still be lining Mark Penn's pockets.

www.hillaryclinton.com -- donate now!  lol!


John McCain the flip-flopper...
by chinapaulo on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:03:33 AM EST


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