Hillary's Hospital "lie": The further disintegration of Obama Fans

So today Hillary has supposedly been shown to have "lied" about a story regarding a hospital and a mother in Ohio. Hillary was told this story by a deputy sherriff who knew members of the woman's family. She was told how the woman, pregnant and in need of healthcare was denied the help she needed because she had not insurance and couldn't pay $100 fee necessary to be seen without insurance.

Hillary never mentioned the woman's name or the hospital's name in her telling of the story.

Today, the hospital, apparently in an effort to defend its honorable name (which is curious since Hillary never named them) has declared that the woman was never denied care. That she was given the red carpet treatment and Hillary is a big fat liar.

More...

When asked to show some of those records which apparently show Hillary to be evil and the hospital and healthcare system to be grand providers of life saving health care, the hospital demurred, citing privacy concerns.

And what of the privacy concerns when they decided to name the dead woman and claim that she and her dead baby were given all the proper treatment by them? Apparently the privacy concerns extend only so far as is necessary for the hospital to inexplicably reveal the woman's name and claim they've done nothing wrong, but no further.

So now we've got a story relayed to Hillary which she tells, as a story relayed to her and NOT as something she knows firsthand. Then we've got a hospital saying its not true.

Then we've got the New York Times, the grey lady whose reporting (remember Judith Miller?) pushed us into Iraq.

Suddenly we are supposed to think this proves Hillary lied or didn't properly check this??

First, I'm more likely to trust Hillary than a hospital only releasing the records and information convenient for it to cover its ass. I'm also more likely to trust Hillary than the NY Times, they of "WMD" and plaigarised stories, and holding the NSA spying scandal until after the 2004 election. Hell, I'm more likely to trust the deputy sherriff in Ohio than either of those two entities.

Second, Hillary told this as a story told to her, therefore, it was and remains true. (as true as the fact that 10,000 people died in an Arkansas tornado).

Third, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it is not true. Except for a hospital nobody knew was responsible for the woman's care when she died, claiming they've done nothing wrong.

Fourth, claiming Hillary should've somehow proved this was true first is stupid. The hospital, even NOW, won't release any records that could show whether they actually provided the care they claim.

And Fifth, for those of you claiming that the story could never be true because "you're a nurse" or because "municipal hospitals can't deny care" you are flat out wrong. My family lives in Elko, NV a small town in the NE part of the state. We have one hospital, it was sold to the company that runs it by the county under a conditional agreement that the hospital was required to give care under the same rules as the county hospital did. My mom, she has a lot of medical problems, and she has no insurance. As a result she goes to the emergency room at least 3 times a year, often for pneumonia, or very serious blood thining problems.

Guess what.... that hospital will not see her unless she pays... you guessed it... $100 up front. Amazing that they require such a payment, the exact payment Hilary's story claims the Ohio hospital required. Its the same payment the hospital required before they were sold by the county as well.

Obama fans (DailyKos) simply LOVE to say that Hillary's a liar. Fact is she's not, she's probably telling the truth, the hospital is probably lying, but in their glee at all things anti-hillary they've taken on the role the media played against Al Gore, finding any way they can to show she's exaggerating or telling a lie.

Sad.... especially because as a so called "reality based community" they should be able to see that a NY Times story where the accused Hospital says "that's not true" is hardly evidence that one of our Democratic candidates is lying.



Display:


Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (2.00 / 3)

Recommended!

No more double standards.

Let's investigate every "story" Obama relays from people on the campaign trail...

Totally ridiculous.  Obama supporters look foolish leaping up and down over this non-event.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:29:40 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (2.00 / 1)

Go ahead.  The wingnuts certainly will research everything that comes out of the mouths of our candidates.  It is passed the time that the Dem candidates learn not to embellish stories.  As others have noted there are, sadly, thousands of health care horror stories, there is not need to make one up.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 03:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (none / 0)

I know you like Hillary. That's fine, but come on. This is a lie, her campaign admits as much (they didn't "fully vet" the story, whatever that means.)

Either something is true or not. Maybe there are half truths, and the like, but when you get down to it, either the story happened as she said -- or it didn't.

If Obama was similarly caught, I'd be disappointed. I may say the issue is "unimportant" but I'd not deny him being caught in a lie.

Facts are facts. To try and turn fact into opinion, and use opinion to undermine facts... that's what Bush has used to great and terrible effect.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 06:34:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Add this (2.00 / 2)

The story couldn't have been vetted because the sheriff's deputy who told it to Hillary didn't know the name of the hospital.  That's from the deputy's own mouth, in the Times story.


by Trickster on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:30:17 PM EST

Re: Add this (none / 0)

How did the NY Times figure it out?  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 03:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": The fu (2.00 / 3)

This is a non story.

She just relayed a story from a supporter , she didn't mention the name of the lady , baby or hospital.

How the hell does the hospital know she was talking about them.

The hospital itself has lost its sense of decency.

Regarding the few Obama supporters making something about this lets just say Clinton Derangement Syndrome is appropriate.

Even saint Obama relays story that he hears in the trail , and if it doesn't check out .

Ok drop it and move on.

End of story.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:30:22 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": The fu (none / 0)

CNN is covering the story and remarked about the incredible detail of the story and how it gives credence to the perception that Hillary is an embellisher.  

Some enterprising reporter will talk with the hospital and find out the whole story.  This needs to be investigated.  If this is true the hospital should be under lawsuit for malpractice.  That's easy enough to find.  


Bitter voter for change.
by Hope08 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:33:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": The fu (none / 0)

How can you be angry at the hospital?  Face it, this story would be incredibly damaging to them, especially if certain key facts were omitted.  There's nothing wrong with defending oneself.


by rfahey22 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 03:51:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (none / 0)

So you'd rather say the hospital is lying when it says she was insured and was never denied care?  Or would you rather they break the HIPAA law and release the womans records?  When you malign a hospital and every person that work there don't you think you should check the story out??????  How long would that take?  How much effort to seek out the truth.  Less than reading the NIE?

Hillary's campaign admits they never checked the story out.  A campaign that lazy and sloppy can't be trusted to win in the GE.  


Bitter voter for change.
by Hope08 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:31:06 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (2.00 / 1)

Stop embarassing yourself.

She relayed a story told to her on the campaign trail by a supporter without mention the name of the lady or hospital.

Ask yourself why the hospital would release the name of the girl or identify themselves and then say they can't release records.

I am sure if you listen to Obama story's on the campaign trail and try to vet all of them , you would come up with one that doesn't check out.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:35:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (none / 0)

The hospital didn't release the name.  If you read the links in my diary, the Washington Post asked the deputy about the story and he gave them the name.  The NYT followed up on the story and talked to the hospital who gave her care.  

It's called asking questions.  Is that really too much to ask for from Hillary's campaign?

It's embarassing that someone would jump through all these hoops to cover up for Hillary's repetitive misspeaking.    


Bitter voter for change.
by Hope08 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (none / 0)

so what exactly are you upset about with the clinton camp,

That she misspoke - Because I doubt Obama does that.

She relayed a story she heard on the campaign trail and as far as I know the guy who told her isn't saying she relayed it wrongly.

so other than being sloppy at verification of a story on the campaign trail , this is not a case of misspeaking , exaggeration , embellishment or lies.

So maybe you can move on from the faux outrage.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (2.00 / 0)

To be honest, I'm pissed b/c I work in health care and I heard this story and I was like WTF?  How could the doctors and nurses in that hospital live with treating a pregnant woman like that.  The health care system is messed up and people are harmed by lack of care in this country.  But this story was so over the top as to have to be true.  How could anyone say this if it wasn't ABSOLUTELY true.  But it isn't and we don't need this kind mess to get in the way of health care reform again (hint, hint)


Bitter voter for change.
by Hope08 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 03:02:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (none / 0)

Exactly.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 04:43:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (2.00 / 1)

so why are you mot DEMANDING the hospital release it's records? oh, wait that's right partial truth is good enough for you, as long as you can use it to your advantage.


by zerosumgame on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:37:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (none / 0)

The hospital can't release medical records without the person's permission unless it's apart of a lawsuit in which some of it may be public record.  It will be easy enough for an investigative journalist to find out if she was insured at the time.  


Bitter voter for change.
by Hope08 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie": (2.00 / 2)

It's a story, folks! A story designed to make a point about what needs fixing. Hillary is not a reporter, she's running for office. She combines prepared remarks with savvy ideas as she thinks on her feet. She has heard stories like this hundreds of time. Fifteen years ago (and I'm sure even since then) she has convened hundreds of small and large groups of patients and providers trying to understand our health care financing SYSTEM. Stories such as this form a composite of a much more systemic situation. She grabbed onto an anecdote that she could use to personalize a much bigger point. It is so unfortunate that the MSM lets the opposition get away with such distortions.


by pan230oh on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 02:52:56 PM EST

SuperDelegates On The Run from Mrs. FibbyPants (1.00 / 1)

"Second, Hillary told this as a story told to her, therefore, it was and remains true." Ah, yes. It just SOUNDED like another Doozie From Tuzla. Her cred is officially shot. Snipered, even.

Liar, liar, sniper fire.
by jwolf on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 03:15:14 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie" (2.00 / 1)

The hospital did not call Hillary a "big fat liar". It did not even say Hillary misspoke.

Now, perhaps the hospital was implying a politician had used a story that had not been checked - and a Clinton spokesman agreed with that implication  "In this case, we did try but were not able to fully vet it".

Kinda of ironic that a diary  was not reporting the truth when it said the hospital had called Hillary a "big fat liar".


by My Ob on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 03:29:05 PM EST

Anecdotes. (2.00 / 0)

It's not too smart to use an anecdote without checking on the veracity somehow.  If all these news organizations can figure it out, then certainly someone as smart as Clinton can as well.

This kind of thing is very dangerous for general elections, because the opposition is going to be combing your record with a fine-tooth comb and double-checking everything you say in hopes of the next "gotcha." We've seen it so far in this campaign... heck, a huge percentage of the posters on this site live for it.

Don't assume that it's not important or is a 'non-story' just because it's detrimental to your candidate (that goes for both Clinton and Obama).  Not every gaffe is going to be fatal, but enough of these sorts of things build up, they can be damaging to a campaign (though some candidates (McCain) have a higher threshold for gaffe tolerance.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 03:40:18 PM EST

I was just stating from my experience (none / 0)

That I have never seen someone seriously in trouble denied care.  I been to private clinics, to county hospitals, to private hospitals, to City hospitals.  Then again my state has a decent health care record (MN) albeit not the best (but I am pushing my state reps and sens to do something to improve it.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 04:02:46 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Hospital "lie" (none / 0)

You should encourage your mother to seek legal assistance.

If she has been turned away from an ER at a hospital that accepts payments from Medicare and Medicaid (virtually all US hospitals) without "an appropriate medical screening examination" to determine if he is suffering from an "emergency medical condition" is in violation of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. If an emergency condition does exist, that law also imposes an affirmative obligation to initiate treatment, regardless of the patient's ability to pay. The law states that there is no limit to the damages that that can be collected in a lawsuit over this, so if the case has merit, I'm sure she can find an attorney who will take it on contingency.

This is one of those things that the country's greatest expert on healthcare is supposed to know.

It could very well be the case that the woman in Hillary's story was seen, and was determined not to have an emergency condition (at that time), and that would be a good example of how wack our system is, but that's not what she said.

Frankly, I don't think that this is much of a story, because she did relate it as second-hand info, and there's so much that can't be known about it. Even most of the commenters at Kos don't consider it a "lie".

Chances are pretty good that if you ignore this one, it will go away. If you insist on pushing it though, I think it will not be helpful to Clinton.


by Ddeele on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 04:11:27 PM EST

Not a "Liar"... (none / 0)

...HRC is victim of two things:

1) A shallow media desiring to propogate a storyline (i.e..HRC fibs) like they did to Al Gore

2) Most importantly, Hillary is being victimized by her old-style campaign.  Her handlers and advisors are FOOLISH if they don't vet every anecdote, now that that the fibbing stroyline is out there.

They dang well better take this into account now that they understand the geography.  If she can go a few days without another occurance, it should fade from the MSM lens.


by a gunslinger on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 08:38:14 PM EST


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