MyDD :: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski

The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski

by durendal, Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 02:56:11 PM EST

As of late, someone from Camp Obama - a surrogate of Sen. Obama - has dredged up Monica's blue dress drivel. I believe it's safe to say that topic has been covered at length. However, if we're going to talk about stains - let's talk about Sen. Obama's foreign policy adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski and his stains upon credibility. And decency.

The Taliban

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

(Le Nouvel Observateur, Interview with Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Paris, January 15-21, 1998, translated by Bill Blum)

There were many causes which led to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Mr. Brzezinski would have us believe that he single handedly dismantled the USSR. Informed readers here do not need me to give reasons, which are numerous. Did Soviet involvement in Afghanistan play a part? Of course. So has every US president since Harry Truman. No mention, however of the one million Afghans killed in that war.

Brzezinski apparently can't see the thousands upon thousands that have been killed in Afghanistan by the Taliban. Or that this is where bin Laden cut his teeth. Or that al Qaeda was supported by theTaliban. Training camps and bases of operation?

Yes, he did some good work with Jimmy Carter but his arrogance in refusing to even admit any of the blowback of unintended consequences or connect dots from the actions he prescribed is strikingly arrogant. He has a McCain-like tin ear. He stubbornly refuses to acknowledge that there has been countless deaths in Afghanistan, and that the actions he supported led to the Taliban in Afghanistan and to the rise of bin Laden and al Qaeda.

Or how about his backing of Pol Pot?

From the New York Times

But while the United States gave tens of millions of dollars in aid throughout the 1980's to Cambodian refugees, it orchestrated a complete program of sanctions against Cambodia because it was under Vietnamese occupation. And to insure that Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge would fight the Vietnamese occupiers, the Carter Administration helped arrange continued Chinese aid.

"I encouraged the Chinese to support Pol Pot. Pol Pot was an abomination. We could never support him, but China could."

According to Brzezinski, the USA "winked, semi-publicly" at Chinese and Thai aid to the Khmer Rouge.

(Elizabeth Becker, When the War Was Over, New York, Touchstone, 1986, p. 440.)
You know when Jimmy Carter made a mistake, he was at least decent enough to acknowledge it. Carter took the blame for the failed attempt to rescue the US hostages from Iran when he spoke to the American people on April 26, 1980 two days after the tragic consequences of Desert One. Brzezinski, well that's another matter. His callous approach and minimalization of the loss of human life for his distorted perceptions of a greater good is a far worse stain than anything on a blue dress.

Originally posted at NoQuarter

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/ the-sordid-stains-of-zbigniew-brzezinski /

References

http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/p ol/pilgerpolpotnus.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_ in_Afghanistan

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht ml?res=9C01E3D9153CF934A25757C0A96E95826 0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge

http://iran.theatlantic.com/documents/Ca rter_statement_on_rescue_mission.pdf

http://iran.theatlantic.com/interactive_ article_page_1.html

Tags: Foreign policy, Carter, Obama, Afganistan, taliban, al Qaeda (all tags)

Permalink :: 20 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (2.00 / 3)

What say you?

by durendal on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 02:56:47 PM EST

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (2.00 / 1)

Rajneesh?

/you're a tool

by Cycloptichorn on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I say you're a troll (2.00 / 1)

doing a troll's work with your Rajneesh bullshit.

by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (2.00 / 1)

I'm not a fan of Brzezninski, mostly because of what he did in Central America.

But he's absolutely right; if you want to point to THE CAUSE of the Soviet Union's fall, it was that. And it took incredible foresight to see that they would be drawn into Afghanistan.

Whether you think it was worth it or not is an open question.

He's a bright guy - lots of people were against the Iraq War, but he was the only one who was against it and also said "and by the way, Iraq has no WMD."

by Mostly on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:11:50 PM EST

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

I am under the impression that that every US president since Harry Truman contributed to the downfall of the USSR. I believe that the US drawing the USSR as the defining action of the collapse of the Iron Curatin is debatable, and strongly so.
And what the hell - only 2 million Afghans were killed.

by durendal on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

Let me correct the numbers regarding Afghan casualties.

Over 1 million Afghans were killed. 5 million Afghans fled to Pakistan and Iran, 1/3 of the prewar population of the country. Another 2 million Afghans were displaced within the country. In the 1980s, one out of two refugees in the world was an Afghan.[50]

Along with fatalities were 1.2 million Afghans disabled--both Mujahideen and noncombatants--and 3 million maimed or wounded--primarily noncombatants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_ in_Afghanistan

by durendal on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 07:17:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (2.00 / 2)

Well, I disagree it was THE CAUSE. If you read Manuel Castells excellent account of the Soviet Union and its fall, you'll find a compelling argument that internal contradictions were weakening the Soviet Union both economically and politically and that it was only a matter of time before it crumbled.

And I definitely don't think it was worth it. Our communist enemies shared many of our values, such as modernity, women's rights, social and economic development, education. Many of our radical Islamist enemies (e.g., the Taliban, Al Qaeda) do not share those values, and are thus represent a more existential threat. I think Al Qaeda, for example, would be much more inclined than the Soviet Union to use nuclear weaponry against us if they had the chance. I would have greatly preferred to see the Soviet Union hang on another 5, 10, or 20 years, rather than have helped empower a new international threat of radical Islam.

by markjay on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:09:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

You could have done this without the opening insult.

There is a lot of 'there' there as regards to your information about ZB, but it will go unread because folks who need to hear it most will be stopped by your insult and simply not go any farther.

Sorry.

It does amaze me that folks like ZB were so in favor of using Afghanistan to bring down the Soviets, yet here we are in our own private hell called Iraq facing the same fate ourselves.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:13:09 PM EST

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

You're right, I'll edit the intro. You guys don't deserve that.

by durendal on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

As a supporter of Senator Clinton, I thank you for your edit.

At least now folks who support the current employer of ZB can read some things they need to know about him because they will get past the intro.

Thanks again for your work.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 11:34:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

I happen to think Brzezinski was right on Afghanistan. If I lived in Afghanistan, I'd probably feel differently. If I lived in Eastern Europe, I'd probably feel the same. Even if you told me 9/11 was the price, I wouldn't change my mind. The Soviet Union was a huge, huge threat to the world.

And let's not forget that it was President Carter who signed off on the idea. Brzezinski may have come up with the concept, but Carter bears the lion's share of the responsibility, for better or for worse. Now, for most of us who agree that Jimmy Carter was fundamentally a very decent man, we have to ask ourselves the question: was he maybe not so decent given that he played games like this with people's lives, or is it possibly just an unavoidable part of the job description?

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:22:38 PM EST

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

In addition to what others have already said, it is a mistake to draw a straight line of cause and effect from the CIA's involvement in Afghanistan to Bin Laden's eventual terrorist attack on the USA. It's true that the Taliban gave them a home, but the motivation for attacking America didn't came from elsewhere. It stemmed from the failure to instigate an Islamic revolution over the government in Egypt and the US's military presence in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War.

These sorts of foreign policy conundrums defy oversimplification. What I've said above hardly scratches the surface. The diarist correctly points this out when saying that there are many causes for the collapse of the USSR but then promptly (and conveniently) forgets the principle when he/she tries to pin the blame of Al Qaeda on ZB.

At the very least it is good to be internally consistent with one's arguments.

Frankly, I think ZB is right. I'd much rather face the overblown prospect of danger from terrorists than complete annihilation in a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union. The lesser of two evils and all...

by tessellated on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:37:33 PM EST

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

I understand your points - but to refer to what the residue in Afghanistan as a "few upset Muslims" is an exercise in denial.
Do you agree with Zbig's backing of Pol Pot,too?

by durendal on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:13:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

I missed the part that you are quoting when you say "a few upset Muslims". I will venture to guess you are referring to where ZB weighed the evil of "some stirred-up Moslems" vs. the liberation of Europe and the end of the cold war.

I think that is a basically correct if glib summation of the outcome of the choice he faced, and while as I said that's a too simple view (from a causal standpoint), it's not without merit either. Remember too: back when we were supporting those Muslims they were not at all upset to receive our help. It was only after the fall of the USSR, Bin Laden's and his cohorts' repeated failures in Egypt, and the US presence in Saudi Arabia did those Muslims become upset with us. I'm not sure what is being denied here. Can you clarify?

I don't have an opinion on Pol Pot. I haven't studied his involvement in it, and, in general, I'm not as familiar with the dynamics of the Viet Nam war as I am with what has gone on in the Middle East.

by tessellated on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:31:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

tesselated,
No doubt I believe the Soviet Union was more of a threat than terrorism - if I recall wasn't there 6000 nuclear warheads pointed at us during the peak of the cold war?
And yes, I quoted incorrectly. Thank you for the correction. The US was involved in a war of proxy - certainly similar to the USSR and China in Vietnam and Korea. And in China's case - a more active role.
However - the reality is one million Afghans were killed and many more maimed - and to refer the aftermath as a "Few stirred up Muslims" in a passing off-handed manner shows that Dr. B -however smart - doesn't get humanity.
Gotta run.

by durendal on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 01:05:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Sordid Stains of Zbigniew Brzezninski (none / 0)

If he was dismissing the victims of the actions of the US and the USSR in Afghanistan as a "stirred-up Moslems" that would indeed seem a bit cold-hearted. I didn't read it that way. I think he was calling the Al Qaeda types that arose in the wake of the USSR as the stirred-up Moslems. Bin Laden is anything but a victim I am sure you would agree and he was most definitely stirred-up. He's been agitating ever since, in fact. I also must reiterate that the US involvement was wanted by the people of Afghanistan. They were more than happy to accept our arms and money. I don't think America is responsible for the vast majority of those victims which came at the hands of the USSR. I'm not suggesting America's track record is lily white, but in Afghanistan one has a steep hill to climb if one wants to suggest we are culpable for the misery that country suffered during Soviet occupation.

by tessellated on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 11:59:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]